Seditious bogans should swing for this

LSWCHP said :

I went back to the Just Grounds website today in a desperate attempt to convince myself that there might be some some semblance of rationality or decency on display there. Despite my best efforts, it just didn’t pan out. It’s like the events depicted in “Idiocracy” are happening in our own lifetime.

There are of course the demented climate change denialists, which I gather is where the whole sick shebang originates. These people sit around in a giant circle jerk congratulating each other interminably on their prescience in seeing through the whole climate change fraud. This fraud is being perpetrated by idiotic people like scientists.

Joining these giant intellects are the Black Helicopter gang, who think pretty much everything is a plot being orchestrated by the UN to enforce a world government.

I could go on and on. But I certainly wouldn’t bother trying to write anything critical on the site itself, because as soon as someone attempts to put across a view that doesn’t toe the party line they are immediately branded as a “troll”, and there is much light-hearted jesting from the moderators about not feeding the troll, with little troll images posted etc. Then the troll is ruthlessly moderated away. I even saw one moderator congratulate another on the speed with which one person was banned, for asking some fairly reasonable questions, which were ignored of course. They don’t like anybody disagreeing with them, the Just Grounds people.

And I suspect that “being moderated” is what would happen to those that would oppose them if they ever attained real power of any kind. Only The Moderators would come knocking at the door of the troll at 3am. And the troll, and his or her family would be off to the reeducation camp. Perhaps never to be seen again.

When I was reading their site, I thought of the hands of Victor Jara. Google that name, and you’ll see just one example of what has happened elsewhere to trolls who ask provocative questions when the Just Grounders and their ilk take over, may that day never come.

I despise these people, and everything they stand for.

Tell me, as a military man, if you were sketching out a coup plan on an empty whiteboard would a pretty good plan look just like this in the early stages?

Bearing in mind these people have expressed their admiration for Pinochet.

More things I learned from the Just Grounds website:
In order to have “all walks of life” represented at your rally, you require only the following: ” Truckies, cattlemen, dairy farmers, beef producers, small grocery and deli businesses and market growers etc…”

I’m assuming that talkback radio presenters fall under “etc…”

Wow, she thinks Barnaby Joyce is a good speaker and god made the sun shine on them.

Am I on the only one that thinks what she has written is threatening violence.

Yeah, but think of all the damage Dullard can do in 18 months.

I went back to the Just Grounds website today in a desperate attempt to convince myself that there might be some some semblance of rationality or decency on display there. Despite my best efforts, it just didn’t pan out. It’s like the events depicted in “Idiocracy” are happening in our own lifetime.

There are of course the demented climate change denialists, which I gather is where the whole sick shebang originates. These people sit around in a giant circle jerk congratulating each other interminably on their prescience in seeing through the whole climate change fraud. This fraud is being perpetrated by idiotic people like scientists.

Joining these giant intellects are the Black Helicopter gang, who think pretty much everything is a plot being orchestrated by the UN to enforce a world government.

I could go on and on. But I certainly wouldn’t bother trying to write anything critical on the site itself, because as soon as someone attempts to put across a view that doesn’t toe the party line they are immediately branded as a “troll”, and there is much light-hearted jesting from the moderators about not feeding the troll, with little troll images posted etc. Then the troll is ruthlessly moderated away. I even saw one moderator congratulate another on the speed with which one person was banned, for asking some fairly reasonable questions, which were ignored of course. They don’t like anybody disagreeing with them, the Just Grounds people.

And I suspect that “being moderated” is what would happen to those that would oppose them if they ever attained real power of any kind. Only The Moderators would come knocking at the door of the troll at 3am. And the troll, and his or her family would be off to the reeducation camp. Perhaps never to be seen again.

When I was reading their site, I thought of the hands of Victor Jara. Google that name, and you’ll see just one example of what has happened elsewhere to trolls who ask provocative questions when the Just Grounders and their ilk take over, may that day never come.

I despise these people, and everything they stand for.

Erg0 said :

I saw a photo of one of their trucks just now on the ABC website. The sign on the back read, in part, “Bring Back Democracy”. I’m guessing they’re not terribly familiar with the concept of irony.

If you have a large truck, you get an extra big helping of Democracy. Poofs and cyclists get a diet-sized bit. See how it works?

chewy14 said :

I don’t think Julie likes you Johnboy:
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/tonys-flawed-friendship-with-the-freaks-and-flat-earthers/#comment-reply-form-588057

She’s rather confused isn’t she. The Canberra Times will be thrilled.

I don’t think Julie likes you Johnboy:
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/tonys-flawed-friendship-with-the-freaks-and-flat-earthers/#comment-reply-form-588057

Classified said :

Actually, I wonder how a series of signs saying “F*** OFF, WE”RE FULL” would go if placed around Canberra’s entry points…

Golf clap.

Okwhatever said :

C’mon, they just want their ‘convoy’. You see ‘convoy’ is the key here, I reckon the word itself must get them all steamy. Finally we have another excuse for a ‘convoy’. Keep on truckin!

“Let them Truckers roll 10-4”

C’mon, they just want their ‘convoy’. You see ‘convoy’ is the key here, I reckon the word itself must get them all steamy. Finally we have another excuse for a ‘convoy’. Keep on truckin!

Classified said :

Actually, I wonder how a series of signs saying “F*** OFF, WE”RE FULL” would go if placed around Canberra’s entry points…

I think the time for that was about 1988. I cannot feel confident that Gungahlin will be seen as Canberra’s finest hour, and the notion of Molonglo just appals me.

They’ll be installing parking meters all through Gridloch Interchange when that lot tries to get to work.

Jim Jones said :

Erg0 said :

I saw a photo of one of their trucks just now on the ABC website. The sign on the back read, in part, “Bring Back Democracy”. I’m guessing they’re not terribly familiar with the concept of irony.

Very few people who rush about with puffy chests demanding ‘democracy’ have much of an understanding about how the political system they live in works.

Mostly it’s because they’re very very stupid.

Nevertheless, still entitled to a vote exactly equal to yours. I think it’s a good system.

John Moulis said :

JB, how many times must it be pointed out to you that this government is NOT an elected government? The Libs and Nats won one more seat than Labor, therefore under the party based system of democracy we have, the majority leader in the House of Representatives – Tony Abbott – should now be prime minister.

Gillard is now in power due to an independent – Rob Oakeshott – who was elected by roughly 20,000 people in one electorate in NSW. The other independents plus one Green propping up Gillard were also elected by similar numbers. The independent from Tasmania who is demanding poker machine reform which will cripple our club industry actually came third in his electorate on first preference votes.

So please don’t roll out anymore of this guff about democracy. We had a democratic election and the will of the people was usurped. Oh and incidentally, the next election is not “18 months away”.

The last election was held on 21 August 2010 meaning the 43rd parliament’s term expires on 21 August 2013, more than two years away. Gillard doesn’t have to call an election until 21 December 2013 and you can bet your bottom dollar she and the independents will be desperate to cling to the trappings of office for as long as possible because they know they are shot ducks when we finally get our chance to pass judgement on her and her rotten mates.

Parliamentary democracy not your strong point?

Erg0 said :

I saw a photo of one of their trucks just now on the ABC website. The sign on the back read, in part, “Bring Back Democracy”. I’m guessing they’re not terribly familiar with the concept of irony.

Very few people who rush about with puffy chests demanding ‘democracy’ have much of an understanding about how the political system they live in works.

Mostly it’s because they’re very very stupid.

I saw a photo of one of their trucks just now on the ABC website. The sign on the back read, in part, “Bring Back Democracy”. I’m guessing they’re not terribly familiar with the concept of irony.

housebound said :

Vilifying them for exercising their democratic right to try and be heard really brings us all to the level we accuse them of occupying.

It really doesn’t. We, after all, are not threatening to gridlock their towns.

EvanJames said :

LSWCHP said :

Both of those cases reek with a combination of malignant self pity, unjustified self righteousness and paranoia.

bloody hell, why can’t I come up with pithy, accurate posts like this?

That said, the other suggestion of jamming them up in traffic is a good one. We need some volunteers to go find trucks, and box them up on Monday morning. They could disguise themselves by sticking Australian flags all over their cars, and “bugger off, we’re full” stickers.

Actually, I wonder how a series of signs saying “F*** OFF, WE”RE FULL” would go if placed around Canberra’s entry points…

I concur with Ben_Dover,

Will you have my babies John? *eyes flutter*

You know it makes sense.

LSWCHP said :

Both of those cases reek with a combination of malignant self pity, unjustified self righteousness and paranoia.

bloody hell, why can’t I come up with pithy, accurate posts like this?

That said, the other suggestion of jamming them up in traffic is a good one. We need some volunteers to go find trucks, and box them up on Monday morning. They could disguise themselves by sticking Australian flags all over their cars, and “bugger off, we’re full” stickers.

Such a wonderful name for a coffee shop…Just Grounds.

Here’s what I’m wondering. What the hell does “Just Grounds” actually mean? It makes no sense as a stand alone phrase in the English language, unless it was originally ntended as a witty name for a coffee shop. A bit of deconstruction of the subtext might be in order here.

There seem to be a couple of themes here. The first is along the lines of “We have just grounds for doing….” whatever ridiculous thing they intend to do, like they intend to get stuck with all the rest of us on the GDE on Monday morning. The other is that they are just people and their cause is just, unlike all the evildoers in…oh…I dunno…Canberra, for example.

Both of those cases reek with a combination of malignant self pity, unjustified self righteousness and paranoia.

I’m reminded of the American invasion of Panama in the 1980s, which was named Operation Just Cause by George Bush The First. According to Wikipedia, General Colin Powell said that he liked the name Operation Just Cause because “even our severest critics would have to utter ‘Just ‘Cause’ while denouncing us.”

Despite the name, the Peoples Republic of China isn’t about a Republic that serves the people, and the Just Grounds adherents don’t seem to have just grounds for much of anything that I can make sense of. They’re Just Silly.

Skyring said :

I totally disagree. Windsor and Katter are assured of re-election. Oakeshott looks a bit more shakey. Independents, once in Parliament, tend to stick there. This is because their first loyalty is to the electorate and not a party.

My point is that independents are more powerful and more effective when they have a say in the balance of power.

I agree if an election were called today. People in those electorates are have to be laughing there arses off (especially those who voted for Katter, they are clearly stoned).

Had a second election occurred a month or so after the first though, I am not so sure you would be right.

Sometimes we just have to accept that there are, indeed, people from outside Canberra who believe that no one is listening to them out there, so maybe coming here will make someone listen. It’s no small effort in this case, and ridiculing them just because their views aren’t yours, and because you think they are just showing their ignorance of the political process, says more about the rest of us than it does about them.

There are a lot of very disenfranchised people out there – who aren’t happy just to write to MPs (and get a form letter back), whinge on blogs, or write futile letters to the editor.

Vilifying them for exercising their democratic right to try and be heard really brings us all to the level we accuse them of occupying.

And like it or not, Canberra is the national capital, and some people actually believe it enough to think that makes it worth the trip here.

Erg0 said :

MrMagoo said :

Start to exercise your brains people not just your dialing finger to Alan Jones, Ray Hadlee and 2CC.

Unfortunately, it seems that we’re pretty much screwed either way:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full

I think that’s what Marius was trying to say, nicely.

MrMagoo said :

Start to exercise your brains people not just your dialing finger to Alan Jones, Ray Hadlee and 2CC.

Unfortunately, it seems that we’re pretty much screwed either way:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/?page=full

Respected ABC Newsradio ‘thinker’ Marius Benson wrote a piece not too long ago which struck a chord with me. In summation it stated that in an age of the 24hr news cycle and more information regarding Government available than ever before, we live in an age where the electorate at large is as uninformed as it has ever been. This is disturbing to say the very least. I believe that Mr Benson if anything was being kind, the electorate at large is in fact ignorant, uninformed is painting it all in rather a brighter light than it should be. It is time that the electorate stopped listening to sound bites and media grabs and actually took the time to read into policy, investigate what the government (whomever is in power) is actually doing and not rely on Newslimited, Chris Bath and Sandra Sully to tell them whom to vote for. Start to exercise your brains people not just your dialing finger to Alan Jones, Ray Hadlee and 2CC.

p1 said :

Skyring said :

Independents don’t usually get much of a say in the Reps and this was their chance. A fresh election, regardless of who won, would scupper them, so they sided with Gillard…..

Not the least because the Independents, by being Independents, did not have the party machines (and funding, media connections, etc) available that the Libs, Labs and Nats would have massed for the re-election. Windsor, Katter and Oakshott probably would not have won a re-election.

I totally disagree. Windsor and Katter are assured of re-election. Oakeshott looks a bit more shakey. Independents, once in Parliament, tend to stick there. This is because their first loyalty is to the electorate and not a party.

My point is that independents are more powerful and more effective when they have a say in the balance of power.

smpc said :

As for your lines about Gillard’s declining popularity influencing their choice, no. Just no. The ALP 2PP didn’t drop below 50% until a month after the second Gillard Ministry was sworn in, and even pulled back after that.

I’m more inclined to follow Tony Windsor’s own opinion in his own words – as per the link given above – than your personal theory about negotiating skills being the decider.

However, the hash Julia Gillard has made of government now puts Oakeshott and Windsor in an interesting position. Just how bad do things have to get before they decide to pull the plug?

The convoy folk arriving on Monday are exactly the sort of people who will resonate with Windsor and Oakeshott. I’ll be interested to hear what they have to say to each other.

Skyring said :

Independents don’t usually get much of a say in the Reps and this was their chance. A fresh election, regardless of who won, would scupper them, so they sided with Gillard…..

Not the least because the Independents, by being Independents, did not have the party machines (and funding, media connections, etc) available that the Libs, Labs and Nats would have massed for the re-election. Windsor, Katter and Oakshott probably would not have won a re-election.

Skyring said :

EvanJames said :

Calling people names won’t alter their opinions. Pitchforks are a safer bet.

What names did I call them? I called Alan Jones a demogogue. Look it up.

I repeat, these people are claiming to be the only “real” people, they believe that they are somehow more worthy, or more deserving, or more something than others. And since I’m evidently one of the others, I take issue with that.

I don’t have a large truck to drive into town to enforce my views on its residents, and wouldn’t if I did have. Bully tactics being used by people who are setting themselves up as some kind of gold standard of worth.

Skyring said :

[1] Not quite. I’m talking about after the election, when support for Gillard continued to slide, and during the negotiations with the crossbenchers it became obvious that their chance for influence lay with her, because they assessed Abbott as more likely to call a fresh election. The negotiation skills of the two leaders wasn’t that big a deal IMHO. Independents don’t usually get much of a say in the Reps and this was their chance. A fresh election, regardless of who won, would scupper them, so they sided with Gillard who was not and is not stupid enough to call an election she would certainly lose.

[2] We’ve had minority federal governments before, so I thought you were referring to the bipartisan deal arranged by the crossbenchers, specifically “The standing orders are to be amended so that answers must be “directly relevant to the question”, with the Speaker to enforce the relevance test.”

That’s no longer happening, and I wonder whether the crossbenchers who arranged the deal a year ago are going to do anything about it, or will they keep sitting through the daily charade of waffle and evasion.

1. First, the Independents are permitted (some would say obliged) to get the best deal for their constituents. That means maximising their influence. The qusetion, then, is how that fits in with their electorates’ generally conservative tendencies. The result might be that Oakeshott cocked it up, but Windsor isn’t buying the line that he’s toast when the writs are next issued. As for your lines about Gillard’s declining popularity influencing their choice, no. Just no. The ALP 2PP didn’t drop below 50% until a month after the second Gillard Ministry was sworn in, and even pulled back after that. Gillard herself didn’t hit neutral satisfaction territory until November. There would be no reason for that decline if she hadn’t formed government. She would have been competitive in rematch until Q1 2011, and potentially moreso from the opposition benches.

2. We have not had a hung Commonwealth Parliament since 1943. No sitting parliamentarian has experienced one at the federal level. It’s novel.

EvanJames said :

“Real” people who have been stirred up and led by the nose by demogogues like Alan Jones. I don’t remember voting for him.

Real people, regardless. Everyone has the same vote at the ballot box, and regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the opinions or lifestyle of others, they are as real as you or I.

Calling people names won’t alter their opinions. Pitchforks are a safer bet.

cdtreasure said :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/mass-convoy-to-make-real-voices-heard/story-fn59niix-1226114844783

Try reading this before you write any more rubbish, Julie Coker-Godson

Where to start? “real voices”. Uh-huh. So they have taken it upon themselves to declare that they are “real” people… so the rest of us are what, exactly?

So they’re screwing up their faces and stamping their tiny feet in rage because there’s things they don’t like. Well join the club, there’s plenty of things that many of us don’t like. And there’s various ways to doing something about that. I guess driving a lot of giant trucks and a raggle-taggle band of people in cars, vans and horse-drawn carts and holding a city to ransome is the way “real” people choose to do it.

“Real” people who have been stirred up and led by the nose by demogogues like Alan Jones. I don’t remember voting for him.

matt31221 said :

So people here on RA who agree with law and order, what can we do to show the ‘Just grounds’ people that they are going too far? Do we take the day off work on the 22nd and stage a peacefull counter protest?

We could take the day off work and peacefully throw rocks at them. That would be much more fun and would get the message across.

smpc said :

1. Yes, Windsor has said that. (If Abbott was PM, he’d simply call a fresh election, win it with a healthy majority, and the independents would lose all their power.) [url=”http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/39886.html”]Specifically, he said that Abbott didn’t want to run a minority government.[/url] Well that sucks for him, because that was the situation in which the Australian people left him and Gillard. It is not illegitimate for Windsor and Oakeshott not to want to put Abbott in power only to see him run off and call another election – which it is by no means obvious that Abbott would have won. The 2PP at the election was basically 50-50 with the ALP slightly ahead.

Not quite. I’m talking about after the election, when support for Gillard continued to slide, and during the negotiations with the crossbenchers it became obvious that their chance for influence lay with her, because they assessed Abbott as more likely to call a fresh election. The negotiation skills of the two leaders wasn’t that big a deal IMHO. Independents don’t usually get much of a say in the Reps and this was their chance. A fresh election, regardless of who won, would scupper them, so they sided with Gillard who was not and is not stupid enough to call an election she would certainly lose.

smpc said :

2. By ‘new paradigm politics’ I meant the situation of minority government, not the farcical idea that this would be a ‘kindler, gentler polity’ (Tony Abbott, 2010) – hence the scare quotes.

We’ve had minority federal governments before, so I thought you were referring to the bipartisan deal arranged by the crossbenchers, specifically “The standing orders are to be amended so that answers must be “directly relevant to the question”, with the Speaker to enforce the relevance test.”

That’s no longer happening, and I wonder whether the crossbenchers who arranged the deal a year ago are going to do anything about it, or will they keep sitting through the daily charade of waffle and evasion.

Skyring said :

cdtreasure said :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/mass-convoy-to-make-real-voices-heard/story-fn59niix-1226114844783

Try reading this Johnboy before you write any more rubbish. Julie Coker-Godson

Next Monday, on my night taxi shift, instead of hanging out at the airport hoping for public servants coming home on Cabcharge dockets, I’ll be booked into Fyshwick. Should be a big night in the brothels, and I’ll make my dough giving rides to the out-of-towners.

Smart move.

I recall reading once in an old CT article that soon after the Prostitution Act 1992 was introduced, there was a church conference in Canberra.
You can tell we’re this is going… the lines were apparently quite long in Fyshwick and Mitchell that weekend.
And I’m sure it was all… how did Fred Nile put it recently explaining his staffers accessing porn on govt. computers… oh yes: “research”.

So if we can make Canberra a hub for church leaders, truckies and US naval sailors, the ACT economy should cruise through a recession.

Skyring said :

smpc said :

Your lot just can’t get over the fact that Tony Abbott was a terrible negotiator, and couldn’t cope with the idea of ‘new paradigm’ politics.

Um, no. The big thing about the last election is that it left the cross-benchers in a rare position of power. They are currently making big gains for their electorates because Gillard depends on their votes. They have her over a barrel.

If Abbott was PM, he’d simply call a fresh election, win it with a healthy majority, and the independents would lose all their power. This was apparent last year when the negotiations were taking place. I think it was Tony Windsor who said as much.

As for “new paradigm” politics, have you listened to Question Time? It’s a sad embarrassment, with the government doing everything they can to avoid giving straight answers to simple questions. That’s not how the crossbenchers wanted it to be, and I wonder how long they’ll put up with it. Certainly Gillard is going to be facing some tough times over the boat people debacle. She’s got more asylum-seekers locked up than John Howard ever had. And far more children – it’s well over a thousand behind bars. I can’t see the crossbenchers being happy about this, and less so with each evasive response Gillard gives.

1. Yes, Windsor has said that. [url=”http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/39886.html”]Specifically, he said that Abbott didn’t want to run a minority government.[/url] Well that sucks for him, because that was the situation in which the Australian people left him and Gillard. It is not illegitimate for Windsor and Oakeshott not to want to put Abbott in power only to see him run off and call another election – which it is by no means obvious that Abbott would have won. The 2PP at the election was basically 50-50 with the ALP slightly ahead. So what happens if the Gillard minority government never comes to be and Abbott annoys the electorate by going to the polls as soon as it suits him? Hmm? Anyway, all of that aside, your basic gripe comes down to ‘the independents didn’t let Abbott do exactly what he wanted’.

2. By ‘new paradigm politics’ I meant the situation of minority government, not the farcical idea that this would be a ‘kindler, gentler polity’ (Tony Abbott, 2010) – hence the scare quotes. Abbott couldn’t cope with the idea of minority government. I think Milne’s analysis above is, for a change, quite good.

3. Yes, question time is a farce. That was also so under Rudd, Howard, Keating, Hawke and Fraser. The only difference now is Tony Abbott’s endless bag of unwinnable censure motions.

I now eagerly await your reflexive whinging about my obvious bias.

Cameron said :

They’re calling for an election, actually. Just because the guy running it (and presumably many other participants) don’t understand that a double dissolution only happens with a trigger (yada yada yada) doesn’t mean they’re shooting for an unconstitutional overthrow of the government.

I don’t understand how their ignorance of the Constitution excuses their actions. If anything, it makes them much, much worse.

I-filed said :

Let’s remember that rural people feel pretty ignored and disenfranchised. If they are turning up by the truckload, there are clearly issues out there that are being ignored.

Actions like this, portraying country people as uniformed, easily lead, reactionary, equivalents to and supporters of the US tea party (THE most reprehensible gathering of bigots, racists, and stupid people ever,) will only lead to their further disenfranchisement.

cdtreasure said :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/mass-convoy-to-make-real-voices-heard/story-fn59niix-1226114844783

Try reading this Johnboy before you write any more rubbish. Julie Coker-Godson

Next Monday, on my night taxi shift, instead of hanging out at the airport hoping for public servants coming home on Cabcharge dockets, I’ll be booked into Fyshwick. Should be a big night in the brothels, and I’ll make my dough giving rides to the out-of-towners.

Apparently ‘bogans’ aren’t the only ones failing to understand democracy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUjfi9PudwA

what_the said :

Skyring said :

As for “new paradigm” politics, have you listened to Question Time? It’s a sad embarrassment, with the government doing everything they can to avoid giving straight answers to simple questions. That’s not how the crossbenchers wanted it to be, and I wonder how long they’ll put up with it. Certainly Gillard is going to be facing some tough times over the boat people debacle. She’s got more asylum-seekers locked up than John Howard ever had. And far more children – it’s well over a thousand behind bars. I can’t see the crossbenchers being happy about this, and less so with each evasive response Gillard gives.

Ha, you conservatives are a cack. Funny, no mention that Tony Abbot has suspended Question Time with censure motions how many times?? Try and get some balance, it makes you sound less of a goose.

Well put! I think we now know exactly how balanced you are and where you lean.

I don’t particularly mind who’s in government. I just want it to be good government. If you assume that I think Abbott would do a better job than Gillard, you would be dead wrong.

The fact remains that Gillard is making a hash of things and despite the crossbenchers making noises about a new way of running Parliament, the Government does its best to waffle and avoid answering straight questions. Hard to have any confidence in people like that, regardless of where they are. Parliament, pub, workplace – we’ve all met and despise them.

Hi Julie,

One can’t help noticing that in your talking points you can’t seem to manage to address the direct quotes from your own people that damn your intentions.

We’re from Canberra, we know how spin works.

Skyring said :

As for “new paradigm” politics, have you listened to Question Time? It’s a sad embarrassment, with the government doing everything they can to avoid giving straight answers to simple questions. That’s not how the crossbenchers wanted it to be, and I wonder how long they’ll put up with it. Certainly Gillard is going to be facing some tough times over the boat people debacle. She’s got more asylum-seekers locked up than John Howard ever had. And far more children – it’s well over a thousand behind bars. I can’t see the crossbenchers being happy about this, and less so with each evasive response Gillard gives.

Ha, you conservatives are a cack. Funny, no mention that Tony Abbot has suspended Question Time with censure motions how many times?? Try and get some balance, it makes you sound less of a goose.

cdtreasure said :

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/mass-convoy-to-make-real-voices-heard/story-fn59niix-1226114844783

Try reading this Johnboy before you write any more rubbish. Julie Coker-Godson

Well, this merely confirmed my prejudices.

The cat did it said :

These protesters take so many of their cues/inspiration from the US Right, but they don’t seem to know enough about the Australian political system to realise that the Australian and US political systems are DIFFERENT. Maybe Alan Jones and his mates should provide break the news gently to them.

+1

Of course Jones and his ilk would be among the people driving these sheep.

@Jethro – Very funny. I’d honk for those.

The copyright page is one thing, the refugee threads on that site are another. Don’t go read unless you want to scrub your brain for a while. I find it incredibly disheartening that people obviously have these views, and honestly think they are justified. Mind you, the amount of disinformation that is spread through the media about ‘illegals’* makes it more understandable I guess.

(*I use the scare quotes because refugees – however they arrive – are not illegal. By air, by boat – they all are included under the Refugee Convention and pending assessment, are all potentially legitimate.)

smpc said :

Your lot just can’t get over the fact that Tony Abbott was a terrible negotiator, and couldn’t cope with the idea of ‘new paradigm’ politics.

Um, no. The big thing about the last election is that it left the cross-benchers in a rare position of power. They are currently making big gains for their electorates because Gillard depends on their votes. They have her over a barrel.

If Abbott was PM, he’d simply call a fresh election, win it with a healthy majority, and the independents would lose all their power. This was apparent last year when the negotiations were taking place. I think it was Tony Windsor who said as much.

As for “new paradigm” politics, have you listened to Question Time? It’s a sad embarrassment, with the government doing everything they can to avoid giving straight answers to simple questions. That’s not how the crossbenchers wanted it to be, and I wonder how long they’ll put up with it. Certainly Gillard is going to be facing some tough times over the boat people debacle. She’s got more asylum-seekers locked up than John Howard ever had. And far more children – it’s well over a thousand behind bars. I can’t see the crossbenchers being happy about this, and less so with each evasive response Gillard gives.

I think it’s rubbish too but okay with the visit generally, circus though it is. Stay for tea, all good, Canberra hospitality.

Also I’d like to hold a protest about a few other very pressing matters. Seems we’re all okay with stopping the traffic, yes? Cops okay with it? Alan Jones, and The Australian, are okay with it? Oh I’m sure they’d twist the story some other way but ey, thart’s fraydom for ya.

Any takers?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/mass-convoy-to-make-real-voices-heard/story-fn59niix-1226114844783

Try reading this Johnboy before you write any more rubbish. Julie Coker-Godson

This commentary is typical of what I would call “excitable and sensationalising commentators”. Not one person involved in this Convoy is involved in sedition and what your commentary suggests is ludicrous and hysterical in the extreme. Nothing that has been done by this organisation or the people who support the cause is either treasonous or seditious. And I would point out that it is nothing more than left wing demonstrations of the past, especially during the Vietnam War, that clogged our streets and DID cause violence. I would suggest you take a long, long drink of Koolaid Johnboy and stop writing hysterical rubbish. Julie Coker-Godson.

EvanJames said :

A bunch of assorted disgruntled people, who rather than mounting a sensible campaign and drawing popular support, instead decide to try and bully through their aims.

I knew it, those ANUSA bastards are behind this.

Due process and law must remain. JB is right although nothing is as bad as nuclear war, pray to God above that it never happens.

So people here on RA who agree with law and order, what can we do to show the ‘Just grounds’ people that they are going too far? Do we take the day off work on the 22nd and stage a peacefull counter protest? JB what do you suggest?

The cat did it said :

These protesters take so many of their cues/inspiration from the US Right, but they don’t seem to know enough about the Australian political system to realise that the Australian and US political systems are DIFFERENT. Maybe Alan Jones and his mates should provide break the news gently to them.

Possible counter protest posters:

Honk if you understand the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy

Free meat pie to whoever can explain Section 57 of the Australian Constitution

Anti-terrorism Act (2005) Schedule 7, Division 80 – Check It Out!!!

I-filed said :

ICausing gridlock on Canberra roads will just mean shank’s pony or a bicycle for those who are mobile.
Let’s remember that rural people feel pretty ignored and disenfranchised. If they are turning up by the truckload, there are clearly issues out there that are being ignored.

Many of those inconvenienced next Monday morning will be rural people, who commute in to Canberra to work every day. In fact, they’ll be the most inconvenienced.

I guess rurals ain’t rurals.

These protesters take so many of their cues/inspiration from the US Right, but they don’t seem to know enough about the Australian political system to realise that the Australian and US political systems are DIFFERENT. Maybe Alan Jones and his mates should provide break the news gently to them.

A bunch of assorted disgruntled people, who rather than mounting a sensible campaign and drawing popular support, instead decide to try and bully through their aims. He who can clog the city with the most trucks shall be declared the winner. Do they really believe that, if you can get a lot of noisy trucks, you get to decide the government?

And this government is, to my mind, a very representative one. Not only is a major party in, but, for the many who vote independant, they now have representation in the government too.

This is a storm in a teacup. A bunch of people will drive trucks into Canberra, park them, and assemble in front of parliament house. There’s no threats of violence or destruction. There will probably be some inconvenience so they egt onto the news.

It will be interesting to see what happens, sure, but calling for the govt to step down is hardly the same thing as charging in with AK-47s.

JB, how many times must it be pointed out to you that this government is NOT an elected government? The Libs and Nats won one more seat than Labor, therefore under the party based system of democracy we have, the majority leader in the House of Representatives – Tony Abbott – should now be prime minister.

Nope. First of all, Australia isn’t a ‘party based democracy’ in any constitutional sense. Have a look for references to political parties in the Constitution. To save you some time, I can tell you right now that you’ll only find one section that mentions them – section 15, to which the reference to parties was added by referendum in 1977. Second, government in parliamentary systems doesn’t depend on winning a plurality of seats. It depends on being able to, well, govern, which means being able to obtain supply and, by extension, commanding the confidence of the lower house. Third, you should probably realise that the Coalition isn’t a party – as the name might suggest, it’s a coalition. If Australian government worked how you think it does, Labor would have been in government continuously since shortly after Federation.

Gillard is now in power due to an independent – Rob Oakeshott – who was elected by roughly 20,000 people in one electorate in NSW. The other independents plus one Green propping up Gillard were also elected by similar numbers. The independent from Tasmania who is demanding poker machine reform which will cripple our club industry actually came third in his electorate on first preference votes.

Too bad, so sad. That’s how the system works, and everyone knows the rules going in. Yes, Wilkie was third on first-preference votes (though – at the risk of ruining your paranoid delusion in which the Coalition was robbed – Labor was first on first-preference votes), but single transferable vote/alternative vote/instant run-off systems aren’t designed to reward the person with the most first-preference votes. They’re designed to put the generally most representative candidate into power.

So please don’t roll out anymore of this guff about democracy. We had a democratic election and the will of the people was usurped. Oh and incidentally, the next election is not “18 months away”.

No, it wasn’t. If it genuinely had been, a challenge would have been mounted to the High Court sitting as the court of disputed returns. What actually happened is that the House of Representatives functioned as it has in parliamentary systems for centuries. Your lot just can’t get over the fact that Tony Abbott was a terrible negotiator, and couldn’t cope with the idea of ‘new paradigm’ politics.

Seriously, all you idiots out there, please get it through your heads that minority government is not somehow illegitimate. I don’t believe that you genuinely think Gillard is, either – or else you haven’t turned your minds to it and s*** like that to which johnboy links is just confirming your biases. You wouldn’t be making a peep if Windsor and Oakeshott had declared for Abbott.

All of which said, what these t***s are doing is not treason. Under section 80.1 of the Criminal Code, treason is basically (a) either killing, harming or attempting to do either of those things to the monarch, GG or PM; or (b) levying war or fighting on behalf of a country levying war against Australia.

Have these seditionists picked the best theme?

At the end of the movie Convey, the leader attempts to drive his truck across a bridge (Commonwealth Avenue Bridge?) towards the National Guard firing a machine gun (Army Reserve?) and ends up in an explosive crash in the river (Lake Burley Griffin?).

I need to find a safe vantage point to watch this!

I would have thought that a massive protest and a call for a change of government, on a whole bunch f grounds, followed by a free and fair election, would be perfectly fine democracy-wise. The Australian people will re-elect Gillard/Greens if they see fit. Oh – you think they won’t? That makes it even more democratic!
Causing gridlock on Canberra roads will just mean shank’s pony or a bicycle for those who are mobile.
Let’s remember that rural people feel pretty ignored and disenfranchised. If they are turning up by the truckload, there are clearly issues out there that are being ignored.

Well put.

I like the lengthy post from the moderators of the Just Grounds website in which they basically beg their members to adhere to basic copyright law: http://justgroundsonline.com/forum/topics/copyright-law-just-grounds-and This appears to be such a big problem that they’ve had to place a prominent notice of it on their main page.

What’s all this talk about democracy? We live in an elective oligarchy, not a democracy.

Ha..and you think they are the bogans/rednecks???? prehaps you didnt read your own guidelines thumper….constructive thoughtful comments will make you appear smarter, intelligent !! oops my 4 front teeth just fell out..ill be back

Perhaps it’s a reference to JB’s initial thoughts about sedition?

Here, I’ll spell it out for you. Traitors in Tudor England were executed at the Tower of London and then their heads were displayed on pikes on London Bridge for a month or so. Then they threw them in the Thames.

But I guess you didn’t pick that up did you?

And you seem to have also missed this bit as well, And I’m no fan of the current government either.

Oh yes i did attend school… ok ill go one further with your thinking… they burn witches dont they?? and if she dosnt burn then,,shes not a witch..lol

All this talk of heads on stakes, traitors, sedition etc etc….have none of you given any thought that they might be the heads of Gillard, Wong, Swan etc?

Sometimes the revolutionaries win.

To all the bogans and political retards saying the government “wasn’t elected”… you don’t know how the system works.

The government is whatever party or coalition holds the confidence of the House.

Government is not decided by popular vote but by seats won, hence John Howard won in 98 with enough seats but Labor won the vote 51 to 49.

Also worth noting that Julie Coker-Godson is a part of the Australian Tea Party movement: http://www.facebook.com/julie.cokergodson
This has nothing to do with “democracy”, they simply want to make a right wing putsch.
Their website is littered with anti-communist slogans and nazi symbols.

My point is that they are welcome to protest any particular cause they wish the government to change policy on.

But once pissed off segments of the community start thinking they have the right to bring down governments we are on the road to civil war.

This is serious stuff and those doing it need to be aware of it.

The government might be brought down from within the parliament, that’s part of the process.

But look at the language; “Just grounds”, “Convoy of no confidence”.

They are attempting to bring mob rule to our shores.

If explaining the gravity of their proposed action makes some of these people get cold feet and stick to campaigning on specific issues then in my book that is a a noble thing to do.

John Moulis said :

JB, how many times must it be pointed out to you that this government is NOT an elected government? The Libs and Nats won one more seat than Labor, therefore under the party based system of democracy we have, the majority leader in the House of Representatives – Tony Abbott – should now be prime minister.

Gillard is now in power due to an independent – Rob Oakeshott – who was elected by roughly 20,000 people in one electorate in NSW. The other independents plus one Green propping up Gillard were also elected by similar numbers. The independent from Tasmania who is demanding poker machine reform which will cripple our club industry actually came third in his electorate on first preference votes.

So please don’t roll out anymore of this guff about democracy. We had a democratic election and the will of the people was usurped. Oh and incidentally, the next election is not “18 months away”.

The last election was held on 21 August 2010 meaning the 43rd parliament’s term expires on 21 August 2013, more than two years away. Gillard doesn’t have to call an election until 21 December 2013 and you can bet your bottom dollar she and the independents will be desperate to cling to the trappings of office for as long as possible because they know they are shot ducks when we finally get our chance to pass judgement on her and her rotten mates.

John, there is actually no such thing as a party based democracy. Secondly if there was then Labor would still be in charge as they won 72 seats compared to the Libs 44, and the Libs would never be in power. The reason being they ALWAYS have to form a collation with the Nats to get the numbers in the house to make a government. Actually no different to what Labor has done, though Labor has done it with the Greens and independents.

And JohnBoy, for once agree 100% with what you have said. Maybe at the next election people will take their vote a lot more seriously and also take the consequences of their actions. I also hope people get the idea of mandates out of there head, no government ever has a mandate for anything, except to run the country so long as they have the numbers.

They’re calling for an election, actually. Just because the guy running it (and presumably many other participants) don’t understand that a double dissolution only happens with a trigger (yada yada yada) doesn’t mean they’re shooting for an unconstitutional overthrow of the government.

The fact is, the government could change based on the whim of a member or the heart attack of another. Again: most people realise this and are no doubt operating on the assumption that making as much noise about their disagreements with the government will make such a move more likely than not.

They’re calling for the unconstitutional removal of a government.

In terms of threats to the nation that’s one step below a massive nuclear attack.

(and in some ways more serious than that)

LOL

We live in a country that allows people to voice their opposition to the government of the day. Whether you agree with their methods or not, fact is they’ll probably do nothing illegal (unless of course they turn into an unruly mob and try and bash down the doors of APH like in the 90’s).

They don’t understand the constitution. Most Australians don’t. The fact that what they’re petitioning for is technically impossible (the dissolution of both houses – the PM can only ask the G-G to dissolve the HoR unless the PM has a double dissolution trigger) doesn’t eliminate their cause.

Calling for a change of government isn’t seditious. Your hyperbolic labelling of them as “traitors to the Commonwealth of Australia” is utterly ridiculous. It’s obvious to all and sundry that they (and many others) view the minority government as unstable and believe that if they make enough noise they might convince one of the MPs currently supporting a Labor government to switch their support. I for one think there’s more chance of a pig flying past my window right now (unless Gillard really jerks Wilkie around over the pokies), but then again, I’m not taking part in the protest.

Don’t agree with their view? Fine, free country. Don’t agree with their method of protest? Pfft. They don’t like the government, they don’t like their policies and they’re getting off their backsides and doing something about it. They’re not the first, and they won’t be the last – and rallies along these lines have been run by organisations from all parts of the political spectrum since we’ve had a Parliament to protest to. Calling such actions “un-Australian” is as ridiculous as the term “un-Australian” is it not?

You seem genuinely fearful that this group will achieve their stated aims. Get real.

Actually, I’m looking forward to severed heads on pikes lining the Commonwealth Avenue bridge.

Ha..and you think they are the bogans/rednecks???? prehaps you didnt read your own guidelines thumper….constructive thoughtful comments will make you appear smarter, intelligent !! oops my 4 front teeth just fell out..ill be back

This story did little to abate my intense dislike of people with hyphenated surnames.

John Moulis said :

Gillard is now in power due to an independent – Rob Oakeshott – who was elected by roughly 20,000 people in one electorate in NSW. The other independents plus one Green propping up Gillard were also elected by similar numbers. The independent from Tasmania who is demanding poker machine reform which will cripple our club industry actually came third in his electorate on first preference votes.

The current government was not formed because 20000 people voted for an independent. Millions of us voted, the final numbers were really close and the seats came down to preferences – that’s how Australia’s system works.

Also, how is Gillard forming government with support from Greens and Independents any different to Liberal forming with Nationals support? They are technically a separate party. And if I remember correctly, not all of the independents who won seats went with Labor…

MickGreen said :

We do not have a “party based system of democracy”. We have a parliamentary system of democracy. The current ministry, led by Julia Gillard, commands the confidence of the House of Representatives and is therefore the legitimate government.

Perhaps “holds onto by hope and fear” rather than “commands”.

Hmmm crazy. I do think calling them traitors is pretty strong and not really warranted. They haven’t betrayed Australia to a foreign power.

These idiots are the Australian equivalent of the US Tea Party – right wing ratbags with no agenda other than to impose their shock jock-led ignorance on the rest of us. Of course they have as much right to express themselves as sane people do, and the appropriate response is to treat them with the contempt that they work so hard to earn. Perhaps the missing ingredient is the fundamentalist Christian right, though I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them crawl out the woodwork either.

The US experience with such groups should give us pause to reflect that they have powerful and influential backing and, given their head, could damage Australia in the same way that the Teabaggers have damaged the US.

John Moulis said :

JB, how many times must it be pointed out to you that this government is NOT an elected government? The Libs and Nats won one more seat than Labor, therefore under the party based system of democracy we have, the majority leader in the House of Representatives – Tony Abbott – should now be prime minister.

We do not have a “party based system of democracy”. We have a parliamentary system of democracy. The current ministry, led by Julia Gillard, commands the confidence of the House of Representatives and is therefore the legitimate government.

I dont agree with the protest either, but I also dont want the opposition as the alternative govt.

Tony Abbott would be far worse for this country, than Julia Gillard, whether you vote Labor or Liberal.

People need to think about what the alternative is also, and dont let their right-wing ldeals cloud their judgement.

phototext said :

Our system is not about who has the most seats but who can form Government and in most cases they are one in the same, but last election they where not. Welcome to our form of democracy.

If anything, the current situation is how our system is supposed to operate and has done so quite successfully for much of its history. If anything, the two party system that has dominated the last few years is the anomaly.

The ability of 10,000 people to cause a change of government is a characteristic of the system. If, instead of nutbags, 10,000 Greens petitioned to change the government, then the current Greens representatives would be well within their right to withdraw their support from Labor and give it to the Liberals.

Wow, the conservative bloggers of the Riot Act unite .. never thought I’d see the day.

Stop crying babies, there’ll be an election soon enough and then you can all vote overlord Tony in who will similarly disappoint you greatly with his vacuous capacity for policy and lackluster appeal.

“JB, how many times must it be pointed out to you that this government is NOT an elected government? The Libs and Nats won one more seat than Labor, therefore under the party based system of democracy we have, the majority leader in the House of Representatives – Tony Abbott – should now be prime minister.”

Another person who does not understand how our Federal Parliamentary system works and has been drinking the Bolt and Jones branded cool aid.

If the system to elect a Federal Government worked as you say then Tony Abbott would be Prime Minister, but it doesn’t work like that. If the Liberal/ National Coalition thought that they had a legal right to form government then they would have taken the issue to court but seeing as they understand how it works, unlike some, they realise that such an action is a waste of time.

An election was held, the people voted, a government was formed. The Liberal/ National Coalition had an opportunity to form Government and where at a distinct advantage by having one more seat in their favour but where unable get the numbers.

Our system is not about who has the most seats but who can form Government and in most cases they are one in the same, but last election they where not. Welcome to our form of democracy.

Its not that hard to understand. Grow up and get over it. You will have an opportunity at the next election to cast your vote.

They’re not “voicing concerns”, their stated aim is to bring down the government in a way that, if successful, will see it repeated by every other bunch of nuts.

Wait, what if some Politicians come out with guitars and challenge the Convoy hillbilly’s to a guitar-banjo play off. Will that earn the Government some respect?

I guess the guys in deliverance still got killed despite the guy’s great guitar playing 🙁

johnboy said :

When Tony Abbott can pass a motion of no confidence, in the elected parliament, he can form a government.

Otherwise he has to wait. That’s how Australians do things.

And that sums it up really. We have a process – and we are the first to condemn other countries for doing exactly what is planned here.

Like everyone else here, I have a vote. I would prefer to lose my vote amoung the 22 million rather than have no vote within a crowd of 10K!

But there’s nothing as un-Australian as an angry mob bringing down a government.

I dunno. Just last year Caucus destroyed Rudd.

If they don’t like being taken at their word they should change their words.

The petition quoted in the OP demonstrates a remarkable lack of knowledge of constitutional processes. The only mechanism which can be used to dissolve both houses of parliament – short of a bucket of sulphuric acid about the size of Fyshwick – is the double dissolution mechanism of s57, whereby a bill has to be rejected twice by the Senate, with three months intervening. That trigger does not yet exist.

So we’re stuck with a busload of Greens in the Senate for at least the next six years, which is a problem for either Labor or Coalition governments. And given that a lot of Australians voted for or are in broad sympathy with the Greens, this isn’t any sort of threat to democracy.

Neither Gillard nor Abbott can command a majority of seats in the lower house. All it takes is one of the crossbenchers to change his mind – and I know that Andrew Willkie is the one the ALP trembles over – and Tony Abbott will be PM immediately instead of having to wait for the next election.

Should Abbott become PM after a vote of no confidence in Gillard, he would immediately advise the Governor-General to hold an early election, and very likely she would grant his request.

It is conceivable that forcefully expressed opposition to the shenanigans of the Gillard government would induce one of the crossbenchers to support a motion of no-confidence. Or it could occur another way, with Rudd claiming health problems to absent himself from Parliament in order to see Gillard toppled.

What I find distasteful in some of the comments here are the labels being applied to those supporting the protest convoy. These are fellow Australians voicing legitimate concerns, and their votes count as much as anyone else’s.

Calm down JB, think about what the likely outcomes of this convoy are.

Worst case scenario there are some traffic delays on Monday morning pissing some locals off, and the rest of Australia gets to hear about it in a 30 second bit on the evening news before the crazies go back to where they came from.

The brilliant thing about bogans is they are very loud but generally disinclined to actually do anything. Think about it, how many people are actually going to forgo a weeks income and drop potentially thousands of dollars on fuel and accommodation for what is ultimately only symbolic gesture?

When Tony Abbott can pass a motion of no confidence, in the elected parliament, he can form a government.

Otherwise he has to wait. That’s how Australians do things.

JB, how many times must it be pointed out to you that this government is NOT an elected government? The Libs and Nats won one more seat than Labor, therefore under the party based system of democracy we have, the majority leader in the House of Representatives – Tony Abbott – should now be prime minister.

Gillard is now in power due to an independent – Rob Oakeshott – who was elected by roughly 20,000 people in one electorate in NSW. The other independents plus one Green propping up Gillard were also elected by similar numbers. The independent from Tasmania who is demanding poker machine reform which will cripple our club industry actually came third in his electorate on first preference votes.

So please don’t roll out anymore of this guff about democracy. We had a democratic election and the will of the people was usurped. Oh and incidentally, the next election is not “18 months away”.

The last election was held on 21 August 2010 meaning the 43rd parliament’s term expires on 21 August 2013, more than two years away. Gillard doesn’t have to call an election until 21 December 2013 and you can bet your bottom dollar she and the independents will be desperate to cling to the trappings of office for as long as possible because they know they are shot ducks when we finally get our chance to pass judgement on her and her rotten mates.

OMFG! They have the “Convoy” track on their website.

http://justgroundsonline.com/forum/topics/convoy-1-information-released-10-08-2011

Truckers form a mile long “convoy” in support of a trucker’s vendetta with an abusive sheriff…Based on the country song of same title by C.W. McCall. “Convoy” is a 1975 novelty song performed by C. W. McCall (pseudonym of Bill Fries) that became a number-one song on both the country and pop charts in the United States.

Just the sort of living in th pats, tasteless, dumb@ss sh!theels we want deciding when our Government should resign.

Seriously Julie Coker-Godson please don’t embarrass our country further.

I’m up for it if the re-elected parliament was filled with politicians who actually cared about the country and the people’s in it well being instead of pandering to lobby groups, filling their own coffers with cash and playing the game of thrones, but that is sure as hell never going to happen.

Kicking out a Parliament and throwing a new one in is going to do absolutely nothing without any sort of reforms on what Politicians can do when it comes to pandering to businesses and lobby groups that support their own financial agenda or the cross party collusion we see when ever something like spending scandals appear, it’s always interesting to see ex-politicians jump into positions of power with multi-million dollar jobs within major institutions that they were supposedly regulating while in Government.

I love you johnboy, will you have my babies?