Whole hundreds cry out for a pedestrian crossing at Trinity Christian School

DrKoresh said :

Robertson said :

I’m not aware they do expel “difficult” children. My daughter was being physically attacked by a girl on a daily basis in her private school. (When I eventually heard about it and asked her about it, she just said, “It’s OK, she’s not very strong”). No expulsion.

Looks like Irishpete is making stuff up to justify his peculiar beliefs.

Meanwhile, it is an established fact that private schools enforce discipline AND (presumably as a result) have far fewer cases of racism or physical abuse than public schools.

My local public high school is a lawless academic desert, with barely 20% of them ever attaining a Year12 certificate. As I would like to give my children a chance, I therefore send them to a school that can demonstrate it enforces standards of behaviour and achieves academic results.
Almost 50% of Canberra children are now in the private education sector as a result of the failings the public has observed in public schools, failings that are the direct result of woolly-headed ideological thinking the likes of which irishpete displays here on a daily basis.
I refuse to send my children to a school for them to play second fiddle while all the resources are being expended pandering to the behavioural needs of the un-educated and un-disciplined offspring of scum.

I can second IP’s claim. I know a girl who was threatened with expulsion from Girl’s Grammar because a couple of bullies told a teacher that she’d swallowed a load of panadol in the bathroom. It was complete and utter fiction of course, but this poor girl not only had to suffer through a stomach pump and induced vomiting but was subsequently asked to leave by the school administration.

Another girl at the same school was actually expelled because she was suffering a depressive episode after the death of a close friend of hers.

So no, Pete’s not just making stuff up. I’m not sure I can say the same for you though, when you’re saying things like:
“Meanwhile, it is an established fact that private schools enforce discipline AND (presumably as a result) have far fewer cases of racism or physical abuse than public schools.”
That sounds like BS to me.

Yeah but Girls Grammar is a zoo for fruit loops.

Why should 1 child be more entitled to government funding then another? Shouldn’t each child be funded equally no matter who they are or who their parents are?

Robertson said :

I’m not aware they do expel “difficult” children. My daughter was being physically attacked by a girl on a daily basis in her private school. (When I eventually heard about it and asked her about it, she just said, “It’s OK, she’s not very strong”). No expulsion.

Looks like Irishpete is making stuff up to justify his peculiar beliefs.

Meanwhile, it is an established fact that private schools enforce discipline AND (presumably as a result) have far fewer cases of racism or physical abuse than public schools.

My local public high school is a lawless academic desert, with barely 20% of them ever attaining a Year12 certificate. As I would like to give my children a chance, I therefore send them to a school that can demonstrate it enforces standards of behaviour and achieves academic results.
Almost 50% of Canberra children are now in the private education sector as a result of the failings the public has observed in public schools, failings that are the direct result of woolly-headed ideological thinking the likes of which irishpete displays here on a daily basis.
I refuse to send my children to a school for them to play second fiddle while all the resources are being expended pandering to the behavioural needs of the un-educated and un-disciplined offspring of scum.

I can second IP’s claim. I know a girl who was threatened with expulsion from Girl’s Grammar because a couple of bullies told a teacher that she’d swallowed a load of panadol in the bathroom. It was complete and utter fiction of course, but this poor girl not only had to suffer through a stomach pump and induced vomiting but was subsequently asked to leave by the school administration.

Another girl at the same school was actually expelled because she was suffering a depressive episode after the death of a close friend of hers.

So no, Pete’s not just making stuff up. I’m not sure I can say the same for you though, when you’re saying things like:
“Meanwhile, it is an established fact that private schools enforce discipline AND (presumably as a result) have far fewer cases of racism or physical abuse than public schools.”
That sounds like BS to me.

I’m a big believer in starting with the public school and seeing what happens.

Every child will have different talents and by seeing where the school is succeeding and where it is failing, you can have a better idea of whether it’s the best place to keep your children, or where to send them if not, but you do need to really work with them to get the best outcome rather than just assuming they’re going to suck.

I went to public primary schools but ended up in the local Catholic high school because of its music programme and because the small number of very bogan bullies I was struggling with ended up elsewhere.

My brother didn’t have bully problems although he did see to have a big difference in his general ability to get along with the other kids at the Catholic school. For me that difference was smaller because I was shy in moving to the different group of people at the start of grade 7 although the circle of friends I did make were a pretty unique bunch of very arty and imaginative people and I can’t say for certain I would have found anyone like that in the other school.

Some other kids I work with have recently moved school because the parents were struggling with the teachers’ attitude toward the kids’ development. These kids already had a few friends in the new school so for them it was just a matter of finding the right teachers who understood them and feeling comfortable with kids they already knew, and it had nothing to do with public vs private.

So yeah, I know firsthand that everyone’s experience will vary and I do believe in public education so I think it’s the best place to start.

Robertson said :

IrishPete said :

Well unless your kids plan to live in some other society, what is good for society is good for them. It can actually be good for them to have to mix with kids from a variety of backgrounds

The vast majority of private school populations reflect the ethno-social mix of the communities they are based in.

Don’t conflate the very small number of posh North Shore type of schools with private schooling in general, it’s a mistake.

+1.

IrishPete said :

Well unless your kids plan to live in some other society, what is good for society is good for them. It can actually be good for them to have to mix with kids from a variety of backgrounds

The vast majority of private school populations reflect the ethno-social mix of the communities they are based in.

Don’t conflate the very small number of posh North Shore type of schools with private schooling in general, it’s a mistake.

IrishPete said :

I guess if you followed the news you might be aware of a royal commission or two going on into institutional child abuse. Not too many public schools getting a drubbing there…

IP

That is the *precise* reason I made a personal decision to not send my children back in time to attend a catholic boys’ school in the 1970s.
I kept them in the 21st century instead, and away from the dysfunctional public school system, just as almost half of Canberra parents have decide to do.

thebrownstreak69 said :

Oh crap, I used you’re when I should have used your.

This is why my kids need a better education that I received!

Wow. Catch of the match.

thebrownstreak69 said :

It’s all very good to have lofty conversations about “what’s good for society”, but when it’s you’re kids you will try to get the best outcome for them.

Plenty of parents have had conversations with public schools that have ended in “we can’t do anything further”. But private schools can, and this is why they are so popular.

No way will my kids be going to the local high school we are currently in zone for. It’s a total ****hole. I know, because I went there.

Well unless your kids plan to live in some other society, what is good for society is good for them. It can actually be good for them to have to mix with kids from a variety of backgrounds (you know, the ones whose parents can’t afford to pay private school fees, not even by scrimping and saving).

Comments from people saying private schools consume their own smoke seem to be at odds with those from others who say that they come down hard on trouble, and that public schools are full of difficult kids. It’s possible that all these statements are correct, but somewhat improbable.

Is anyone seriously claiming that private schools don’t expel kids? So what happens to those kids they expel? Where do they go?

The “something further” that private schools do is threaten to, or actually, expel. (Maybe mummy and daddy take the threat seriously because it is a real threat.) A public school can’t easily do that, because they have a social obligation to provide an education, or to try to.I suppose they could just give the troublesome and troubled kids a Got To Jail, Go Directly To Jail, card.

IP

chewy14 said :

When private schools stop expelling difficult kids they will earn a little more respect from me (fom a very low base admittedly). It’s easy to be efficient and effective if you throw out the time-consuming kids for the public system to pick up.

By the way, how many child abuse cases arise in public schools compared with private ones? There’s a lovely hidden cost of the private system.

IP

I don’t know, how many currently? I’m sure you wouldn’t just throw that comment out there without the data right?

I guess if you followed the news you might be aware of a royal commission or two going on into institutional child abuse. Not too many public schools getting a drubbing there…

IP

poetix said :

johnboy said :

…. (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

….

Really? I thought you went to Radford.

🙂

Johnboy went to Radford? Makes sense, really.

johnboy said :

…. (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

….

Really? I thought you went to Radford.

🙂

Oh crap, I used you’re when I should have used your.

This is why my kids need a better education that I received!

Robertson said :

IrishPete said :

Robertson said :

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

Every child that attends a private school costs the taxpayer significantly less than if it went to a public school.
Additionally, as was proven during the “school halls project”, every dollar given to a private school goes *waaaaay* further and is *faaar* more efficiently used than if it went to a public school.

In short, the taxpayer funding children to attend private schools saves the taxpayer lots of money.

When private schools stop expelling difficult kids they will earn a little more respect from me (fom a very low base admittedly). It’s easy to be efficient and effective if you throw out the time-consuming kids for the public system to pick up.

By the way, how many child abuse cases arise in public schools compared with private ones? There’s a lovely hidden cost of the private system.

IP

I’m not aware they do expel “difficult” children. My daughter was being physically attacked by a girl on a daily basis in her private school. (When I eventually heard about it and asked her about it, she just said, “It’s OK, she’s not very strong”). No expulsion.

Looks like Irishpete is making stuff up to justify his peculiar beliefs.

Meanwhile, it is an established fact that private schools enforce discipline AND (presumably as a result) have far fewer cases of racism or physical abuse than public schools.

My local public high school is a lawless academic desert, with barely 20% of them ever attaining a Year12 certificate. As I would like to give my children a chance, I therefore send them to a school that can demonstrate it enforces standards of behaviour and achieves academic results.
Almost 50% of Canberra children are now in the private education sector as a result of the failings the public has observed in public schools, failings that are the direct result of woolly-headed ideological thinking the likes of which irishpete displays here on a daily basis.
I refuse to send my children to a school for them to play second fiddle while all the resources are being expended pandering to the behavioural needs of the un-educated and un-disciplined offspring of scum.

It’s all very good to have lofty conversations about “what’s good for society”, but when it’s you’re kids you will try to get the best outcome for them.

Plenty of parents have had conversations with public schools that have ended in “we can’t do anything further”. But private schools can, and this is why they are so popular.

No way will my kids be going to the local high school we are currently in zone for. It’s a total ****hole. I know, because I went there.

Ghettosmurf87 said :

You make far more of a saving by fully funding the 10% and letting the other 90% fund their own way entirely if they choose to go down the private root.

All roots have to be private, public roots tend to cause a fuss and may even get one arrested.

IrishPete said :

Robertson said :

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

Every child that attends a private school costs the taxpayer significantly less than if it went to a public school.
Additionally, as was proven during the “school halls project”, every dollar given to a private school goes *waaaaay* further and is *faaar* more efficiently used than if it went to a public school.

In short, the taxpayer funding children to attend private schools saves the taxpayer lots of money.

When private schools stop expelling difficult kids they will earn a little more respect from me (fom a very low base admittedly). It’s easy to be efficient and effective if you throw out the time-consuming kids for the public system to pick up.

By the way, how many child abuse cases arise in public schools compared with private ones? There’s a lovely hidden cost of the private system.

IP

I don’t know, how many currently? I’m sure you wouldn’t just throw that comment out there without the data right?

Robertson said :

Every child that attends a private school costs the taxpayer significantly less than if it went to a public school.
Additionally, as was proven during the “school halls project”, every dollar given to a private school goes *waaaaay* further and is *faaar* more efficiently used than if it went to a public school.

In short, the taxpayer funding children to attend private schools saves the taxpayer lots of money.

But why are we funding the private schools at all? Are we funding them because they are not viable private enterprises without additional funding? If the parents that pay for their students to go these schools had to instead pay the full cost of sending their child there, rather than having part of that cost subsidised, how many of them would then choose to send their kids to public schools and how many would instead find a way to continue to send their child to the private school?

I mean, if only 10% of the parents would send there kids to public schools if they had to pay more, than just because it costs the government half as much for a kid at a private school as a public school means jack. You make far more of a saving by fully funding the 10% and letting the other 90% fund their own way entirely if they choose to go down the private root.

If however there would be a mass exodus back to public because parents had to stump up more cash…i.e reverse the above situation and 90% come back to public….then it is obviously better economically to continue to fund private students to a certain degree.

There is also the question of why we should be funding students at private schools that are already econimcally viable and may even be making profits? Do these schools need it at all? Do the Grammars and St Edmunds really need to leach off the public purse too? I would suggest that you could entirely remove public funding from these schools and the increase in fees, being a far smaller % of the overall large fee than some of the other lower cost private schools, would not result in much of a loss of students back to public at all, resulting in government savings which could either help meet the budget bottom line or be re-invested into the public system to improve it.

There are always going to be parents that want to send their kids to private schools. That is fine. That is their right. And if those private schools are providing a good enough service, then those people will pay whatever they have to to send their kids there because they believe it is a better choice than the public system. I just don’t agree that those schools should be publically funded unless it is actually economically beneficial to the government to do so, which would mean that they can provide the best possible public system they can.

IrishPete said :

Robertson said :

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

Every child that attends a private school costs the taxpayer significantly less than if it went to a public school.
Additionally, as was proven during the “school halls project”, every dollar given to a private school goes *waaaaay* further and is *faaar* more efficiently used than if it went to a public school.

In short, the taxpayer funding children to attend private schools saves the taxpayer lots of money.

When private schools stop expelling difficult kids they will earn a little more respect from me (fom a very low base admittedly). It’s easy to be efficient and effective if you throw out the time-consuming kids for the public system to pick up.

By the way, how many child abuse cases arise in public schools compared with private ones? There’s a lovely hidden cost of the private system.

IP

I’m not aware they do expel “difficult” children. My daughter was being physically attacked by a girl on a daily basis in her private school. (When I eventually heard about it and asked her about it, she just said, “It’s OK, she’s not very strong”). No expulsion.

Looks like Irishpete is making stuff up to justify his peculiar beliefs.

Meanwhile, it is an established fact that private schools enforce discipline AND (presumably as a result) have far fewer cases of racism or physical abuse than public schools.

My local public high school is a lawless academic desert, with barely 20% of them ever attaining a Year12 certificate. As I would like to give my children a chance, I therefore send them to a school that can demonstrate it enforces standards of behaviour and achieves academic results.
Almost 50% of Canberra children are now in the private education sector as a result of the failings the public has observed in public schools, failings that are the direct result of woolly-headed ideological thinking the likes of which irishpete displays here on a daily basis.
I refuse to send my children to a school for them to play second fiddle while all the resources are being expended pandering to the behavioural needs of the un-educated and un-disciplined offspring of scum.

Robertson said :

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

Every child that attends a private school costs the taxpayer significantly less than if it went to a public school.
Additionally, as was proven during the “school halls project”, every dollar given to a private school goes *waaaaay* further and is *faaar* more efficiently used than if it went to a public school.

In short, the taxpayer funding children to attend private schools saves the taxpayer lots of money.

When private schools stop expelling difficult kids they will earn a little more respect from me (fom a very low base admittedly). It’s easy to be efficient and effective if you throw out the time-consuming kids for the public system to pick up.

By the way, how many child abuse cases arise in public schools compared with private ones? There’s a lovely hidden cost of the private system.

IP

Watson said :

“… the first ever e-petition” Ooh, ladida. That’s what the media release seems to be about. A bunch of people signed a petition that they probably didn’t even read nor thought about because the only effort it took was to enter their email address and click a button.

I do think that every school needs to have a school crossing. Which is only active when it needs to be.

I once asked Roads for a zebra crossing near our primary school and was told that the school drop-off/pick-up traffic didn’t justify slowing traffic down 24/7. I can kind of see what they mean, though I know a lot of examples in the Inner North where that rule was broken. There are heaps of zebra crossings there – sometimes in spots with fairly poor visibility – that hardly get used even at peak times. Or that pedestrian light at the Christian school on Antil St. There’s a light AND a school zone that goes for all of 20 metres. WTF?

I with they would make their rules more consistent and then stick to them and not give in to the biggest wingers.

And I totally agree that it is usually a minority of lazy, selfish, inconsiderate parents who create the traffic problem in the first place by parking in stupid spots and driving too fast in their big SUVs. I have been itching to tell the next parent I see park illegally right in front of the school entrance that “I’m so sorry about your child’s serious illness. It must be terrible that they cannot walk even 10 metres.”

Sorry about the typos. “I wish they would make their rules more consistent and then stick to them and not give in to the biggest whingers.”

Not sure what wingers are…

“… the first ever e-petition” Ooh, ladida. That’s what the media release seems to be about. A bunch of people signed a petition that they probably didn’t even read nor thought about because the only effort it took was to enter their email address and click a button.

I do think that every school needs to have a school crossing. Which is only active when it needs to be.

I once asked Roads for a zebra crossing near our primary school and was told that the school drop-off/pick-up traffic didn’t justify slowing traffic down 24/7. I can kind of see what they mean, though I know a lot of examples in the Inner North where that rule was broken. There are heaps of zebra crossings there – sometimes in spots with fairly poor visibility – that hardly get used even at peak times. Or that pedestrian light at the Christian school on Antil St. There’s a light AND a school zone that goes for all of 20 metres. WTF?

I with they would make their rules more consistent and then stick to them and not give in to the biggest wingers.

And I totally agree that it is usually a minority of lazy, selfish, inconsiderate parents who create the traffic problem in the first place by parking in stupid spots and driving too fast in their big SUVs. I have been itching to tell the next parent I see park illegally right in front of the school entrance that “I’m so sorry about your child’s serious illness. It must be terrible that they cannot walk even 10 metres.”

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

Every child that attends a private school costs the taxpayer significantly less than if it went to a public school.
Additionally, as was proven during the “school halls project”, every dollar given to a private school goes *waaaaay* further and is *faaar* more efficiently used than if it went to a public school.

In short, the taxpayer funding children to attend private schools saves the taxpayer lots of money.

I have a MUCH better idea: make the East-bound lane of McBryde a red-kerb “No Stopping” zone. If people want to pick up their children by car, they can approach the school from the Westbound lane. This will also ease traffic flow in the area.

chewy14 said :

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

You must have a very low bar of what you consider a “privileged child” in the ACT then.

Quite a few of those private schools are a few thousand dollars a year in fees. I went to one and my parents earned significantly less than the average wage.

+1. There are plenty of private schools that don’t cater to the privileged market.

Personally I’ve always though that privileged private schools are a waste of money when good public schools and inexpensive private schools are available. Knowing quite a few people who attended privileged private schools, the career outcomes of the individuals weren’t helped at all by attending.

chewy14 said :

How about they simply build a fence to stop the kids crossing wherever they want?

That’s what they’re doing for the staff at Canberra Hospital…

johnboy said :

I love private schools.

Shame we don’t have any in the ACT.

We have government funded schools that only privileged children can attend (and I speak as an alumnus of one of the most privileged).

Nice work for some but not actually relevant to this issue.

As for Liberals I’m very fond of many of them.

You must have a very low bar of what you consider a “privileged child” in the ACT then.

Quite a few of those private schools are a few thousand dollars a year in fees. I went to one and my parents earned significantly less than the average wage.

Skidbladnir said :

For the sake of pattern-referencing for discussion’s sake, based on memory rather than facts:

Melrose High @ Pearce (public school, close to underpass, relatively busy intra-suburb road) has a zebra pedestrian crossing.
Marist @ Pearce (same road as Melrose, opposite side of the underpass) has a school crossing.
Canberra College @ Woden (major roads everywhere, underpass at the storm drain) has no zebra crossing, but has crossings at lights.
Fadden Primary (underpass, intra-suburb) has a pedestrian crossing.
Holy Family @ Gowrie (Busy roads everywhere, two underpasses, no zebras)

Johnboy is dismissive of Trinity’s request because he doesn’t like private schools and he likes the Libs even less.

How about they simply build a fence to stop the kids crossing wherever they want?

Surely the underpass and a zebra crossing would be sufficient?

And yet the govey can build a costly overpass which orange paint fell off over drakeford drive not 100 metres from new barrade protection crossing near the kambah super school. Or for that matter look at traffic deversion down Inkster cres kambah after a petition from 12 concerned residents…

Clearly their faith is insufficient. Daniel 5:27.

For the sake of pattern-referencing for discussion’s sake, based on memory rather than facts:

Melrose High @ Pearce (public school, close to underpass, relatively busy intra-suburb road) has a zebra pedestrian crossing.
Marist @ Pearce (same road as Melrose, opposite side of the underpass) has a school crossing.
Canberra College @ Woden (major roads everywhere, underpass at the storm drain) has no zebra crossing, but has crossings at lights.
Fadden Primary (underpass, intra-suburb) has a pedestrian crossing.
Holy Family @ Gowrie (Busy roads everywhere, two underpasses, no zebras)