Job Selection Criteria's.

For a Canberra Public Service job,just say you attended/your kids attend Marist. The mafia will then kick into gear and all will be looked after.

Felix the Cat said :

See example in my previous post where a job was being advertised with the same SC as a previous job but somehow it was a totally different job.

It could have been for a different position, but doing the same sort of work as for the previous position.

If you don’t get the job, you can ask the contact person why you didn’t get it and how you could improve your next application. When I was on PS interview panels we rated the applicant’s answers against the criteria immediately after they finished their interview, then after they were all done we made the big list of everyone in order, so the top X could be offered the X positions we were interviewing for. We kept rough notes so we could justify our decisions in case a protest was lodged.

On the other side of the coin there are people who can sell themself really well in an interview, but in reality they can’t or won’t do anything much.

A decent application full of examples gives you a lot to ask their referees about. And gaps in their experience stand out more than during a chat, where they can gloss over their weak points.

I prefer to sell myself in the written applications, and find them easier than the interview.

54-11 said :

The old public service often became a closed shop – one good example was Customs, where for a generation or two, unless you were a practicing Catholic, you were simply excluded from the selection process.

The ANU used to be like that except it was Masons not Catholics.

54-11 said :

The current systems are supposed to be based on merit, and largely they are. However, it is still a very imperfect system. The problem is that there is no better alternative.

Yes there is. Just need from the applicant a brief one page covering letter with resume outlining what skills and experience they have and if relevant/suitable then invite them along to an oral interview to elaborate. Not that much different to how it’s done now except you skip the BS SC process. As has been said already, lots of people get help to write replies to SC (either professional or their friend/collegue) so it’s irrelevant anyway because the person wanting the job hasn’t written to the SC. It’s sort of like cheating in a test, like getting your mate or paying a professional to sit it for you. So you might as well save everyone time and money (except of course the businesses who write replies to SC for applicants)and get rid of SC as it effectively adds nothing except headaches to the job application process.

See example in my previous post where a job was being advertised with the same SC as a previous job but somehow it was a totally different job. If the people advertising positions haven’t got the brains to come up with original and relevant SC (instead of just copying and pasting generic statements/questions) then what chance is there of attracting suitable applicants?

You can generally find out what a person is all about after a 10 min discussion rather than read through pages of waffle that probably wasn’t even prepared by the applicant! The mob that jerked me around writing to the SC reckon they did it for ELs and even Ministers! They could of been BSing me just to talk themselves up but somehow I don’t doubt what they were telling me was the truth (but then other stiff they said was BS so maybe this was too).

p1 said :

Yeah, fair call about fairness and accountability. As always, there is a balance between what has to be done, and what would probably be best.

That is the problem though. As soon as you introduce a balance then it is open to either abuse or criticism from the public, government or media.

In one of my previous jobs I had to sit on APS panels and employ contractors. For APS you must go through the procedures and more or less justify all your decisions. For the contractors we could employ more or less who ever we liked, even without interview if need be. Over a two year period I employed 2 APS and 4 contractors, guess which turned out to be the best choices? Yep the contractors. All 4 are now APS.

‘a criteria’?

a criterion… ; ) (sorry vg, couldn’t help it after all the other grammar nazism above… you make, however, a most excellent point. is why all applicants should do it themselves, albeit maybe looking at others’ [successful] examples for inspiration)

one of the other major flaws in the PS recruitment processes as they stand is they tend to generate clones. the only people deemed fit for a job that, in my experience, rarely needs you to write to a set of criteria, is based on whether the applicant can write to criteria. few panels seem to ‘see through’ the text presented to them by an applicant and so dismiss non-PS applicants because that applicant hasn’t presented them with what they had expected to see…

If you can’t write your own job application how do you address a criteria that discusses levels of written and oral communication?

Surely if your written communication is of a standard sufficient for a job you can express that yourself on paper rather than have someone else write it.

utah said :

You mean “its singular form”; you don’t use an apostrophe with “it” to indicate possession, just contraction.

Now, I’m off for a shower to wash the stench of pedantry off myself.

Damn! Can’t believe I did that! Well, actually, yes I can… it’s like someone said on here recently: “I ever make typographical errors”.

I guess I should go take a shower for that purpose myself!

Job selection criteria & interviews have been studied thoroughly by organizational psychologists since the 1950’s and most conclude they don’t work very well (compared with picking an applicant at random) unless the job is very simple.
Work conducted in the APS is 60% arse covering so they need to use some method that makes it look like there isn’t nepotism going on. plus they can’t get rid of people easily even if they cant do the job they were hired for.
In private industry you can just hire someone and they are crap at the job you can let them go easily. in that case the applicant needs to ensure they can do the job.

trevar said :

I’ve certainly applied for positions where I’ve identified a cut-and-paste in the selection criteria. It gets obvious when an unrelated job title is included!

I suspect that this mostly occurs in those circumstances where a position is being advertised just to follow procedure, but where the person who is going to be offered the job has already been chosen, which seems to be a very common practice in the APS.

I actually meant cut and paste reply 😉 but yes for the OH&S, participative management thing it is usually a cut and paste answer. They tend not to refer to anything specific job wise though.

trevar said :

Also, ‘criteria’ is plural, and it’s singular form is ‘criterion’, so the first apostrophic (!) problem is a moot point.

You mean “its singular form”; you don’t use an apostrophe with “it” to indicate possession, just contraction.

Now, I’m off for a shower to wash the stench of pedantry off myself.

LaLa said :

Gungahlin Al said :

And pay attention to errant apostrophes?? Three in the one post…

I don’t think he was asking you to critique his post, merely provide advice.

What a way to encourage people to feel comfortable about posting on here.

Lala my point (in longer prose) is that if one is in the habit of getting apostrophes screwed up in a simple post, then it is likely to be just that – a habit – and therefore hard to break. Like understanding the difference between your and you’re… And you don’t want a job app standing out for the wrong reasons.

Plus, these things get noticed right up to the minister’s office. You want your minister and their advisors focusing on the million $ issues, not the grammar.

So if someone was applying to me for a job that involves a lot of time writing stuff for the public, SES and the parliamentary arm, then I’m going to be culling people with poor writing basics skills right from the get-go. Short-listing is fast and cruel, and little things like pesky punctuation can make or break your app’s chances.

BTW I also hate SCs, but as others have said, they do help you short-list and as an applicant they do give you a chance to talk about yourself in more detail than you’re likely to be able to fit into an 30-minute interview.

Over time you’ll build up a suite of small bits of text that address specific things that keep popping up in the SCs of the sorts of jobs you are going for. You can use Word’s outlining mode to collapse these under subheadings in an all-encompassing draft application. Bung in the new SC questions, drag and drop the relevant answer chunks under the respective SC, clean it up and customise it, and you’re most of the way there. Starting from scratch every application is what makes it such a drag.

And instead of waiting for an application, start now. Get onto the APSC website and study the Integrated Leadership System: http://apsc.gov.au/ils/index.html. Look for the expected criteria under the self-assessment form for the level you are after, then develop draft response chunks that recount how you satisfy all of them.

Hi Mick,

One good tip I received in my youth is to keep a list of all your achievements at work. Finished a project? Summarise the key points and write it down on the list. Negotiated an MoU? Summarise the key points and write it down on the list.

Then when it comes time to put together a selection criteria you won’t be scratching your head so much thinking of things that you can use to sell yourself.

If you are not in the APS or a professional position at the moment then this might not be so easy to do, but bear it in mind when you do get in the APS.

MWF, the trick there is to call the contact officer and ask if anyone is currently acting in the position. Sometimes they will tell you and sometimes they won’t. While the person acting is not guaranteed to get it, the fact is that the examples they provide are likely to align perfectly with the duties of the role and can give lots of ‘demonstrated’ type responses rather than ‘knowledge of’ ones. KSC is relatively generic, but if you’re in a job that gives you the opportunity to demonstrate all the criteria, you are obviously in with a good shot. That said, the last two management team recruiting processes in my section have recruited people external to the organisation–and they have beaten people who have done fairly extensive acting stints.

As for nepotism, I’m not sure it’s as prevalent as you think. Perhaps it could be because the public service is such a big employer in this city and it makes some sense to apply at places you have some knowledge of? In my section, at least, all recruitment involves application, testing and interview. If you can’t score highly on the test–noting that the identities of the applicants are not disclosed to the marking panel–then you don’t get an interview.

trevar said :

I suspect that this mostly occurs in those circumstances where a position is being advertised just to follow procedure, but where the person who is going to be offered the job has already been chosen, which seems to be a very common practice in the APS.

Yep. What a waste of public money that is!

I have recently been witness to someone on a contract getting the permanent position when the position the person was in was made into a permanent one. This person has done NOTHING except shirk work and fudge reports for 3 years.

How someone who sits on ebay all day, has 3 hour lunches and disappears for hours at a time to non existent meetings score the job they did is beyond me. They are probably related to someone higher up.

sepi said :

A PS manager would be crucified if they just rang a friend who they knew could do the job, got them in for a quick chat/interview and gave them the job the next day.

Yes, however, what they actually do is advertise the job and go through all the BS and expense of calling for applicants. Applicants spend time and money writing applications and addressing selection criteria and then the PS spends more money holding interviews and then the daughter/son/friend gets the job anyway.

A quick look at my PS phone directory and you can smell the nepotism. The place reeks of it.

When errant apostophes are apparently more notable than the content of the post, you may well begin to understand the private sectors jaundiced view of the public service mentality.

heh, heh … no apostrophic mistakes there.

well, actually, the ‘jaundiced view’ is asserted as a possession of the ‘private sector’, so “sectors” should have an apostrophe, thus: ‘sector’s’

and a criterium is something racing cyclists complete, innit?

the best advice i had for applications and cvs revolves around answering the questions posed by the selection criteria by ‘demonstrating you did something, or show you could do it, and try to find three examples, including from current gig, previous gig and, if appropriate, personal life. and have a squizz at a couple of friends’ cvs and get ideas on what they’ve done. try to have friends who have had some success in getting a job, might also be good advice!

good luck, but!! ; )

I’ve certainly applied for positions where I’ve identified a cut-and-paste in the selection criteria. It gets obvious when an unrelated job title is included!

I suspect that this mostly occurs in those circumstances where a position is being advertised just to follow procedure, but where the person who is going to be offered the job has already been chosen, which seems to be a very common practice in the APS.

They’re a shortlisting tool. Sometimes they are good, sometimes they are bad. The seemingly compulsory OH&S and “participative management” criteria area a waste of time and are generally a cut and paste job – just make sure when you cut and paste that they haven’t thrown something different in the middle for a change.

When I fill them out I tend to hate them – except for the few “technical” criteria. From the other side I don’t mind them – particularly now they are usually limited in word count (I once made my self read through an application that was nearly 30 pages in length). I try to limit the stupid criteria questions, but usually have to include some.

The most annoying thing about them is the current direction of using the Integrated Leadership System as the basis for the criteria even for technical related positions. They are almost impossible to answer and the answers you get tend to end up being BS.

Has anybody else found that applying through recruitment agencies tends to sidestep the selection criteria? Seems to work that way in my experience. Actually that was the easiest job I’ve ever scored. Unfortunately my recruitment was a rare show of efficiency that I’ve never seen repeated by a Government Department.

Still, if ‘serving the commonwealth’ floats your boat, I’d strongly recommend talking to a recruitment agency next time you’re looking for a change.

LaLa, you’ve identified the single biggest probelm with the ad hoc approach you’re suggesting, when you say that “like attracts like”.

The old public service often became a closed shop – one good example was Customs, where for a generation or two, unless you were a practicing Catholic, you were simply excluded from the selection process.

The current systems are supposed to be based on merit, and largely they are. However, it is still a very imperfect system. The problem is that there is no better alternative.

As Winston Churchill said, “Democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” The same applues to the APS selection process, I think

I can see the benefit of well-kept records and accountability but I also think the PS could save a lot tax payers money and peoples time by reviewing their recruitment processes which are archaic and unwieldy. I believe they could do this and still retain transparency and fairness in the process.

I was referred to my current role and my previous role by a former co-worker and during my 3.5 years with this company I have since referred two other former colleagues, both of whom were successful in gaining the role.

A lot of my former private sector clients are investing in staff referral schemes and for most of them it is now their preferred way to recruit. It is cost effective and provides employees with a nice incentive (I got $1000 plus two 4 gb Video Ipods) to refer people they know that may be qualified.

Also like attracts like.

If you have a hard-working, effective worker chances are they know someone with a similar skill-set and very few people would dream of referring someone they didn’t trust to perform well as it reflects on their performance as well.

Having said all of this… does anyone actually know of anyone personally that actually provides this service for under $400?

SC are a game. An annoying game, but if you learn the rules, you will do fine.

You want a good application with your SC tailored to the job you are applying for. It is VITAL that you have good examples to back up your claims. (And keep the resume down to an uncluttered two-three pages). And ring your referees to ensure they are on board and to make sure they are definitely going to give you a positive ref. If not, get another ref.

Usually, the selection criteria cover things like strategic thinking/analytical skills/sound judgement, ability to achieve results, ability to develop productive working relationships, demonstrated personal drive and integrity, ability to communicate effectively. These are aspects of most jobs. Again, I repeat, illustrate with examples of how you do these things. Others have mentioned STAR, which is
Situation
Task
Action taken
Result

Usually the interview panel will have a set of questions everyone gets asked, such as how you would prioritise tasks that all appear to be urgent, or what you do if you make a mistake.

Good luck!

sepi, I can say that I’ve never, ever been involved in a selection process where this sort of nepotism has taken place. I’ve no doubt it happens, but I’m convinced it’s not a common occurrence.

Criteriums.

I’m sure you meant criteriums.

The job application, which in almost all cases MUST address the SC, is generally no more than a process for shortlisting those to be interviewed.

The next part of the process is the interview itself, where the applicant can really show their wares.

So use the application process to get the interview. Clearly addess the criteria, provide good examples, demonstrate that you have the range of required expereince, skills and knowledge. That sounds easy, but it’s not. A good professional CV expert should be able to clearly disguise the fact that someone else has written it.

I’ve noticed a trend recenly where people write their CVs in the third person – it’s not an approach as a selection panel member, would recommend.

When the manager in the APS is allowed to hire all her buddies without any proper processes questions get asked in the media and parliament. It reflects badly on the govt of the day.

sepi said :

A PS manager would be crucified if they just rang a friend who they knew could do the job, got them in for a quick chat/interview and gave them the job the next day.

It’s that kind of mentality that holds the ps back. What’s wrong with ringing a friend? If that friend gets the job done it’s win/win. If he’s absolutely useless kick him to the curb. Works in the private sector.

Yeah, fair call about fairness and accountability. As always, there is a balance between what has to be done, and what would probably be best.

A big part of it is about being seen to be fair to everyone, and being able to prove afterwards how the decision to hire someone was arrived at. (Eg – a big stack of graded selection criteria).

A PS manager would be crucified if they just rang a friend who they knew could do the job, got them in for a quick chat/interview and gave them the job the next day.

If SC is such a good way to recruit people how come the PS is so full of dead wood?

Because you pay someone else to do it for you?

I went to uni, but if I have to write a selection criteria, I defer to my wife’s advice and help, because while she didn’t finish high school, she spent some time in the job placement industry, and writes a mean CV and job app.

Selection Criteria sh!t me to tears, but for jobs where certain skills are important, like written communication and ability to research, they do make sense.

What doesn’t is when a job is advertised for something like an arborist, and there is the expectation that a full departmental selection criteria will be addressed. A good friend of mine, who is great at cutting down trees, could probably scrape together a reasonable application, but would not have any idea of what was required if not told by friends. Sometimes I think that people in the PS get a little bound up in “the way it is done” and forget that people outside of the the PS think that they are wankers.

Felix the Cat said :

If SC is such a good way to recruit people how come the PS is so full of dead wood?

Addressing a SC proves that you can string a few words together, and you can state how your skills/experience align with their corporate objectives.

The PS has lots of dead wood because it’s so bloody hard to actually fire someone. The only way we have ever got rid of staff is failing them during probation; and winding up the pressure until they leave or transfer.

sepi said :

There are people in the back of the jobs pages of the Canberra Times who advertise that they write selection criteria and CVs. I don’t know anyone who has used them tho.

I attempted to use one of these companies (am I allowed to say the name?) and to cut a long story short had very unsatisfactory dealings with them. Can’t recall the exact $ figure they charge, might of been around $150. A bit exxy but worth it I guess if it helps you to land your dream job.

sepi said :

A good start is to have a look at some other people’s successful job applications for similar jobs.

And always get someone else to read your application thru before you submit it. They will see parts that are confusing, and may find typos and apostrophes that you have missed.

I’ve actually thought about writing selection criteria for people as a work from home thing. I’ve almost always got interviewed for anything I’ve applied for. I’d like to know what the going rate is too.

I agree. I ended up getting a mate’s wife do up a response to the SC for me. I got the interview but unfortunately didn’t get the job.

I also keep the applications for previous jobs and copy and paste relevant parts into new applications.

Interestingly, about 6 months later the identical sounding job at the same place was advertised with with identical SC (except for a few words in one criterion) so I emailed them asking why they were re-advertising and if previous applicants would be considered. I received a reply that it was a “totally different” job. So I submitted my “totally different” SC but must of upset them because I didn’t get an interview. I don’t want to work in a place that’s full of BS anyway.

I find SC to be so BS. Every job I’ve ever had I just send in an application letter with resume attached, go for an interview, and then they contact me within a few days regarding start date. If SC is such a good way to recruit people how come the PS is so full of dead wood?

This coffee searching at a new level!

How can I apply for a job?

I’ve come across that too LaLa, it’s weird. Personally, my decisions about hiring are always made on the basis of references and an interview.

Moving just a little off topic – increasingly, I find talking to the people the applicant didn’t put down as their referees to be helpful: other managers, people they supervise even their clients. But then I’m not in the PS.

A quote I heard was around $400 which included addressing the criteria and revamping a resume.

As someone that works in the private sector dealing with public sector hiring managers it astounds me a high percentage of them place more value on someone addressing the criteria correctly than their performance in an interview. Even if they have enlisted the assistance, paid or unpaid, or someone else.

sepi, I sit on APS selection panels (as scribe and convenot) and there is plenty of scope for assistance for many applicants. If you did this, yout charge-out rate would be $30-40 per hour.

“about interaction WITH different types of people” Oops.
*Piratemonkey run’s due to the nearby nammar grazi’s*

There are people in the back of the jobs pages of the Canberra Times who advertise that they write selection criteria and CVs. I don’t know anyone who has used them tho.

A good start is to have a look at some other people’s successful job applications for similar jobs.

And always get someone else to read your application thru before you submit it. They will see parts that are confusing, and may find typos and apostrophes that you have missed.

I’ve actually thought about writing selection criteria for people as a work from home thing. I’ve almost always got interviewed for anything I’ve applied for. I’d like to know what the going rate is too.

Selection criteria arn’t fun but once you get the knack for them its not too bad. After that the hardest part is grammer and speeling and keeping it short and sweet.

Basically look at the question as: As an opportunity to say why you think your background would make you good at the proposed job. It might ask some obvious question about dealing with people that everyone should know without even thinking. Alas many dont 🙁

You could answer this by saying while at uni you worked at a resturant part time. In this role you learnt valuable lessons about interaction about different types of people and how to calmly take control of difficult situations with customers and steer them towards the most positive outcome. (Id throw a quick example in here) You then mention you feel these universally useful skills will greatly aid your smooth transition into your new feild and help throughout your daily duties.

Thats how i look at them anyways. Feel free to offer advice. As I scored a new job not long ago i guess im on the right track 🙂 I woulda argue SC’s are good to help find those who can articulate themselves better which is a handy skill. Sucks for introverted bean counters and IT nerds tho 😛

cranky said :

When errant apostophes are apparently more notable than the content of the post, you may well begin to understand the private sectors jaundiced view of the public service mentality.

The use of apostrophes is relevant to the content of the post. I even work in the private sector and still judge people’s capacity to perform at work by how they communicate. Seems wise to advise someone who is wanting to apply for public service positions but doesn’t know what to do with an apostrophe to learn what to do with an apostrophe.

Granted, it could be done more politely, such as my addition:

Also, ‘criteria’ is plural, and it’s singular form is ‘criterion’, so the first apostrophic (!) problem is a moot point.

cranky said :

When errant apostophes are apparently more notable than the content of the post, you may well begin to understand the private sectors jaundiced view of the public service mentality.

heh, heh … no apostrophic mistakes there.

I have quite a few very technical friends who can write but think they can’t, so they get a professional to do their applications for them – even for the technical jobs. A good quality professional will only ever write what is really there, and it takes a lot of effort from the applicant. Someone has to come up with the facts.

People who can write, or for whom writing is easy, should never be so arrogant as to mock those who have trouble stringing words together on paper.

When errant apostophes are apparently more notable than the content of the post, you may well begin to understand the private sectors jaundiced view of the public service mentality.

Yep, Villiers is all over the public service…

S T A R

Gungahlin Al said :

And pay attention to errant apostrophes?? Three in the one post…

I don’t think he was asking you to critique his post, merely provide advice.

What a way to encourage people to feel comfortable about posting on here.

Gungahlin Al said :

And pay attention to errant apostrophes?? Three in the one post…

Ouch!!The grocer’s apostophe rides again.

Agreed mistertim. There’s a bunch of resources available on-line and from the ‘business’ or ‘professional development’ sections of most good book shops – try Daltons Bookshop in town.

From my own experience assessing job applicants the most common error you come across is a failure to properly address criteria. For example, a criterion that asks you to demonstrate your proficiency is not an invitation to list all the jobs or projects you’ve been involved in – the panel will be looking for an insight into your skill-set and how you might apply that in situations relevant to their needs – if they want to know what jobs you’ve held they’ll look in your CV.

Sure selection criteria suck but in a tightening market where they might now be getting 50-100 or more applications per vacant position, they need some way to sort out the contenders from the pretenders. Keep it simple and to the point with as much detail as you can squeeze in but don’t pad it – the panels going to have to read through your application along with a bunch of others and waffle rarely gets you through to the interview round.

It’s often possible to spot applicants who have used professionals to help them write applications – particularly when they get to interview and from my point of view, I immediately worry that if the applicant needed help applying for the job how are they going to manage the actual job on their own.

And pay attention to errant apostrophes?? Three in the one post…

Most departmental websites have information on how to do it via the STAR method (try DAFF for instance).

Also APSC has a very good course called Marketing Yourself into an Executive Level Position. Great facilitator and he takes a quite different approach to STAR. It is on my ‘best of’ courses attended list.

Check out the book “How to Address Selection Criteria” by Ann D. Villiers.

Google that phrase and you’ll find some good info as well.