89 Canberra restaurants mistreating their staff

Why choke the system with yet more regulation and compliance, VY? Things are bad enough for business as they are. Besides, the systems we have in place are 9/10 th’s of the way there.

Pay foreign workers the same as Aussies. The market is pretty good at sorting out how many workers you need to import to make up a shortfall of local workers. If a company needs more workers than it can get in Australia, it can bring them in (subject to what DIMA have to say, I guess).

Don’t make foreign workers cheaper, or they will be more attractive than local workers and an even easier target for exploitation (don’t want to work for starvation wages and in an absence of OHS systems? Uppity darkie oik! You don’t know how good you’ve got it! Back to Bumfuckistan with you!)

Mr_Shab, I do agree with a number of the points you have made, especially the one about shit-kickers not doing any better financially than being on the dole. That leads to a culture of laziness and mediocrity.

The point I was making about the American auto industry is that until recently, big companies like Ford and GM spent more on health care than they did on steel. That would scare me if I were a shareholder (which I’m not – their performance sucks).

As far as importing labour, it think it can be made to work as long as there are controls around how it is done (with associated compliance processes and measures). I’m not sure how the overall system would need to be ‘tuned’, other than that employers would need to face restrictions on imported labour, and it would need to be matched (proportionally) by the use of local labour. I do think it could be made to work.

The real question is what we do with our buddy Wayne the borderline alcoholic retard. Any large scale approach will be potentially ineffective, due to the highly individual nature of the problems these people face. But it shouldn’t stop us from trying.

..and that should have been “…dodgy EMPLOYERS using imported labour to distort the market…”

Bahahaha! Touche, Mr Evil.

You can’t import or export hospitality like a car, VY. Your argument doesn’t work in that context.

I’m not arguing for distorting the market in favour of Australian workers. I’m arguing against dodgy employees using imported labour to distort the market in their favour.

By all means, where we lack the labour it should be imported – but for that reason and that reason alone.

Anyway – the American auto industry would be in much better shape if it could build a car that competed with Asia in quality and relevance, not price.

A lot of people do shit-kicking work because they lack the wherewithall to do any better. That doesn’t mean we should consign them to a financial situation no better than the dole.

Also – some people just happen to like hospitality and are good at it, and accept the shit wages as part of the job. Why make them poorer for their talent?

“Wow Mr. Evil – I’m glad you thought of that. Now all our problems are solved.

Would you hire a chronic unemployable? Put your money where your mouth is. I hope you like working with Wayne the alcoholic borderline retard.”

You leave ‘Wayne’ out this: he’s doing very well running Telstra, thank you very much. 🙂

Well in that case let’s just ban all foreign workers and let Aussie businesses get crushed under the weight of paying for the dignity of workers. That’s probably a bit harsh but it represents the opposing viewpoint. Have a look at the American auto manufacturing industry if you want a real life example.

One of the best things that ever happened to me was the year I spent at age 16 cleaning the Woolies butchery part time. There wasn’t much dignity (or pay), but jeez it kicked my ass into gear – no way was I doing work like that the rest of my life. People do shit-kicking work for a reason. They mostly choose to do so, and are rewarded accordingly.

Wow Mr. Evil – I’m glad you thought of that. Now all our problems are solved.

Would you hire a chronic unemployable? Put your money where your mouth is. I hope you like working with Wayne the alcoholic borderline retard.

VY – allowing employers to give lower wages to imported workers gives them no incentive to hire local workers. Your system also gives them no incentive to keep an imported worker on once they are Australia.

Strategies like that allow bad employers to run rampant over the dignity of workers, and ends up making good employers do bad things to compete.

BTW – imported workers would have to pay tax. That means that they are “paying” for their use of essential services.

Also – service standards aren’t up to some places overseas for two reasons, IMO. One, I think a lot of Aussies wouldn’t be comfortable with the almost overbearing level of service I’ve experienced overseas (that’s just an opinion). Two – we don’t have a culture of tipping to rival other nations. We also insist on paying hospitality workers an above-starvation wage (though only just).

What about all those useless unemployable people we already have here? Send them out to work, and tell them that if they don’t like it then they won’t be eligible to receive welfare anymore.

…oh, and please don’t think I am suggesting that the solution is a simple one.

It’s a matter of striking a balance between favouring the Australian citizens over imported labour, and still giving the imported labourers a chance to be an Australian citizen.

Oh, and I am not suggesting they get the SAME wages as they do back home – but instead serving some kind of interim period where they work at less than full award wage (to get them here and to support business), and then allowing them permanent residency or citizenship which with it comes the full wages. In the interim I would say they should have full support of other community services you and I enjoy on the basis of our taxes (hospitals, schools, etc). I’m sure a balance could be struck. The unfortunate reality is that service standards in Australia in hospitality do not seem to be at world standards, based on my travel experiences. There are also millions of people who don’t get clean water or 3 meals a day. Surely there’s a point where these people can come and work to benefit us (the consumer), business (the employer) and them (the worker).

VY i agree with you.

However, when in Aus, do as Aussies do.

Its also unfair on the broader community which includes you and me, to think that its OK for me to employ a foreigner in lieu of employing you – because i can get away with lesser conditions and less cost.

its just wrong.

name and shame i say.

If a foreign worker comes to Australia, they should be paid as an Australian worker. If you need to import foreign workers, it implies that you can’t get enough workers in your own backyard. That’s true of hospitality at the moment, so I don’t have a problem with it, as it’s just finding another source of labour to make up the shortfall.

But using the rationale that because they’re from a poor country, they deserve the same wages as they earned back home is bunk, VY. It’s a thinly veiled effort to use foreign workers to drive down wages that are already low.

I’d say that’s exploitation.

Wow, how terrible it must be for those people who come from lawless, corrupt, poor, disease-riddled countries to have to come to a safe country where they have a job, medical care, schooling for their children and the opportunity for citizenship.

Exploitation is a dangerous, and very relative, term. Be careful with it.

Hey, so long as they’re not exploiting Aussies – who cares!

Me too. It’s not rocket science to run a decent kitchen and treat people decently. Employers shouldn’t be allowed to get away with behaving badly. And, it’d be nice to know who also to patronise, to go to the good ones.

i want to see the ‘list’.

i stopped using zeff’s because of this.

I’d like my dollars to go to non-exploiters.

I sometimes go there at at lunch on my expense account, and have never had anything but an excellent meal and great service. So I’ll kepp going back. I haven’t had dinner there in years.

the noise is terrible having a work function where you can talk to people is near impossible.. too much reverb or something going on. Whilst their pizzas are a far superior option than your massive chain operations, i still can’t go past your little mum and dad takeaway store.

Zeff’s is a strange case because they have a good basis for a successful restaurant. The food is cheap, plentiful and tasty, and they have good repeat customer base. Where they go wrong is the restaurant layout which makes no attempt at making it a pleasant place to eat because of the noise, and is not conductive to ordering and paying for your food in a structured manner.

Well there’s what? over 300 in Canberra?

it’d be nice to be able to reward the decent ones.

I refuse to go to that place (Italian? My arse!) because it is not a pleasant experience for the reasons you stated.

As for breaches, oh for crying out loud! I bet we need a nice little parliamentary committee to investigate this.