The Chief stamps his tiny feet at speeding drivers

What nathan said about arbitrary figures is how I view things as well.

Mr Waffle – Its called section 305 of the Australian Road Rules. Being a driver you should be aware of this.

I’m well aware of the provision, and just like when the discussion was had in the past- an undercover police car running a yellow, possibly red light to book someone for running a yellow light- I don’t think it’s reasonable for an undercover police car to run a yellow/red light without lights or sirens to book someone for running a yellow light.

Well, at least if ACA do another story on hoon P-platers, we can attribute it to the police instead…

I hate the idea of timed distance cameras, (because I am afraid I would be fined), but I find them kind of hard to make an argument against.

Mr Waffle – Its called section 305 of the Australian Road Rules. Being a driver you should be aware of this.

They could always do distance over time cameras on the long stretches of arterial roads. Or start pinging everyone for 3+ km over the limit like in Victoria with zero tolerance policy thrown into the mix. People would be upset then.

but of course we’ve seen unmarked police cars go by their own laws in the past (run yellow/red lights without sirens etc) so who knows if it’s allowed.

Pretty sure that I heard in previous discussion that there is some specific exclusion that enables unmarked cop cars to do things like display “P”, to enable them to blend a little better with the evil street racers.

and all emergency vehicles run their flashy lights without the siren if it is unnecessary.

Caf – seems someone beat me to the idea eh ?

How do we implement this in our fine city ?

Everyone should drive like me. I drive akin to Captain Slow from Top Gear.

Once bitten by a speeding fine, twice shy.

(Though I do tend to abide by rules and regulations more than most.)

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

…When people see police about, they drive sensibly…

I take your point about visibility, and agree with you, mostly.

The trouble is, in my experience, when motorists drive with a Police car nearby they turn into nervous nellies driving with little common sense or apparent ability. Seems a Police car is a good way to get people to drive 15km/h+ under the limit.

We just need to have Comrade Rudd insert common sense chips into every new born child and hope things improve for the next generation.

I like the cut of nathan’s jib too (post #19).

during Ski Season, the NSW cops have a range of stealth cars, with ski racks, stickers, cushions on the shelf etc.

Unmarked/stealth cars have to be numerous and regular to have deterrant effect though. Just the odd one soemtimes is useless. they need to blitz the city with them, and then keep it up to a lesser extent. they have to get drivers worried that they’re always out there.

Danman: Like this?

caf said :

I saw an unmarked car pulling someone over on Belconnen Way yesterday – interestingly the unmarked cop car was displaying P plates.

I wish you’d taken a photo.

I saw an unmarked car pulling someone over on Belconnen Way yesterday – interestingly the unmarked cop car was displaying P plates.

I know a couple of guys waiting for the next police recruit intake to become cops, they said one of the requirements is a full manual drivers licence. I’m pretty sure it’s against the law to show P plates when you’re not a P plater… but of course we’ve seen unmarked police cars go by their own laws in the past (run yellow/red lights without sirens etc) so who knows if it’s allowed.

Ideally, people should drive safely and responsibly of their own volition, without the need for police, speed cameras etc, but unfortunately, a proportion of drivers don’t see it that way. Hence the need for financial disincentives coupled with measures that increase the perceived likelihood of being caught- so drivers modify their own behaviour. Unmarked cars aren’t just another way of writing a ticket- what counts is their deterrent effect on the fifty or so drivers who pass they scene while they ticket is being written.

What I think that they need is radio controlled helicopters with speed cameras and a Dillon M-134D minigun or 2.

15 doses of lead a second would surely scare a lot of people into slowing down.

Doh, what caf said…..

I dunno VY, it occurs to me that if all police cars were unmarked drivers wouldn’t know when one was nearby, rather than just behaving appropriately until the conspicuous marked car is out of sight, as happens now……

The chance that any other car could be an unmarked police car has considerable deterrence value.

Unmarked cars achieve very little toward road safety in my book, as it is just another way of writing a ticket. If you want to change the real behaviour, you need to get visible, marked police cars out patroling the roads. When people see police about, they drive sensibly. Writing tickets does very little to change actual behaviour.

I saw an unmarked car pulling someone over on Belconnen Way yesterday – interestingly the unmarked cop car was displaying P plates.

ant said :

Proper full-on speed traps woudl help. The old fashioned ones with the lookout cop taking readings/photos and feeding the intell to the cops a few hundred metres down the road. More cops out and visible..

Fully agree. More unmarked cars, and more random breath tests too.

Canberra drivers are lunatics. Look at all the tailgaters. What do you reckon they’re going to do when they get out from behind the person they’re tailgating? One guess!

Proper full-on speed traps woudl help. The old fashioned ones with the lookout cop taking readings/photos and feeding the intell to the cops a few hundred metres down the road. More cops out and visible… look at how all teh tailgaters drop away when a cop is spotted!

shanefos said :

More cameras will mean that the vast majority of drivers will start viewing the speed limit as just that, the legal limit.

Shanefos, I think you’ll find that the vast majority of drivers are not the problem and its fairly obvious that the ‘deterant’ offered by road saftey cameras (who calls them that .. really) isnt effective in reducing fatalities. In the period since they were first installed in the ACT there has been NO noticable reduction and if i recall correctly we ran a story with links to numbers a year or two after their introduction where fatalities were significantly higher than the pre speed camera average.

If the threat of big fines and loss of license isnt deterring the 200kmh dash down tuggeranong parkway late at night i’d have to agree that thinking stern words in a press release by the chief is going to hold much weight. Maybe its time to think outside the box?

Speed can be very easily quantified and assigned a dollar value. All of the other aspects dictating the safety of a particular vehicle on a particular road are some what harder to measure, especially things like sleepiness, attitude and skill.

Yeah, I keep hearing about all these car accidents at 242km/h. Oh wait…

242km/h is clearly excessive, but as drivers & riders we know that because we can judge from experience. 110km/h on the Parkway in light traffic and clear weather isn’t going to cause an accident, because it’s suitable for the conditions. Then again, 95km/h on the Parkway in heavy rain & traffic may be too fast. Conclusion? Arbitrary speed limits are fundamentally flawed.

I don’t think your Starlet on the front page was going that fast. Speeding is an issue in road safety, but by no means the most critical one. Driver/rider skills, quality of road design, surface & markings and roadworthiness are far more important – but much harder work.

Pommy bastard said :

Only if it doesn’t result in a one car smash with no harm to any other motorists. Unfortunately Darwinian selection doesn’t come with a guarantee.

Some poor bugger’s still gotta clean up the mess.
Otherwise, I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiments.

I think that the 242km/h type speeds are pretty obviously not the norm. I would be very sure that they correlate closely with the “detected travelling with no number plates or incorrect plates” that the story references, and chose that bit of road because they new the camera was there. Thanks to the publishing of the photo, I suspect someone has a framed copy on the wall in their house….

If we ignore the outliers in the data, then the speed cameras do discourage speeding in a specific spot, and do raise general awareness about the possibility of getting caught, but, as stated before, most people still do 10 to 15 km/h over the limit on a daily basis. I know I do. The only thing I think will effect this behaviour is more cop cars on the streets. Or radio controlled ‘choppers.

caf said :

I’ve got to agree that 242km/h on the Tuggeranong Parkway is “totally unacceptable”.

Only if it doesn’t result in a one car smash with no harm to any other motorists. Unfortunately Darwinian selection doesn’t come with a guarantee.

Yeah, but at 242km, even if you see a police speed trap ahead, even with excellent brakes, and an excellent reaction time, your still going to get pinged at very illegal speeds, plus coppers tend to notice when your passing 100km/h traffic as if it wasn’t moving, even without a radar gun.

Oh, and The Chief?

Yes 242 kmh is totally unacceptable – but when was the last time anyone saw a police car actually running a speed trap on the Parkway?

EVERYONE slows down when they see a police car – clearly most but not all of us slow down for a speed camera. The logic is simple….

Maybe mandatory microchipping for everyone who has been caught driving 45km and over which dials the coppers if it detects you speeding again might work.

Hey, just a thought.

I’ve got to agree that 242km/h on the Tuggeranong Parkway is “totally unacceptable”.

I always thought they should just shoot speeding drivers. They drive much slower when they’re dead: have you ever seen a speeding hearse? I mean, seriously, who needs to speed? Criminals. That’s all. No one else has any reason to, and we don’t need criminals, so why protect them? Just shoot them and be done with it.

Yes, people say that they know speeding is bad, but you can bet that they’re the same people that think travelling ten or fifteen k’s over the limit is perfectly harmless.
More cameras will mean that the vast majority of drivers will start viewing the speed limit as just that, the legal limit, rather than just a figure to add ten or fifteen k’s to. Eastlink in Melbourne, which has speed cameras at every toll point is what I’d like to see used as the yardstick for every arterial road in the ACT.
I do agree that more police are needed, but, as the Transport Minister, surely that problem doesn’t fall under the Transport umbrella.

What I think that they need is little radio controlled helicopters with speed cameras mounted on them that fly around the city booking people. so that you never know where or when they might get you. Of course, we will all have to paint out rego number on the roof of the car in big letters, but that is a small price to pay for public happiness.

H1NG0 said :

Give it a rest shanefos, we all no speeding is “bad”

OMFG, did I just write no instead of know? Its too early for me still.

Give it a rest shanefos, we all no speeding is “bad”, but a message like this is hardly productive. How about putting some more cops on patrol? The problem is that the government has always viewed these cameras as a replacement for patrolling police vehicles. Its a joke. You know what their solution will be in the future? Yep, installing more cameras.

So, he’s not meant to comment on an issue that affects his electorate?

When I first heard an MLA refer to Little Jonny as “The Chief” I almost cracked up, but she was in the middle of complimenting me so I had to be very polite and smile.

Of course, now that my Chieftain has pointed out the folly of my reckless driving, I am going to be a good little boy.

Missed the point shanefos. If the threat of a four figure fine and instant loss of licence amongst other potential penalties aren’t sufficient, what kind of thinking will suggest that a few stern words from the chief will tip the balance?

Speeding’s already illegal.

The question is what’s being done about it and is it working?

Personally since the speed cameras came in my risk assessment makes it a worthless activity to me.

But obviously not all Canberrans agree or we wouldn’t have this media release.

So speeding is okay with you then, Johnboy? I know this debate has been done to death on numerous occasions on RA before, but if speed cameras aren’t working, then what (realistic) alternative short-term deterrents do you suggest?

I’m sorry, but I’m with Sonic on this one. 45km/h over the speed limit is totally unacceptable in my books. But then again, I’m not cool, am I?