Indicate Mate

Hanksinatra said :

Guide me, because I’ve spent a few years in othe countries. Is it really still all about cars here? I mean everything including all fun is nearly banned to keep cars happy…a ridiculous concept probably killing more people than all road safety issues put together. Better just to get a life.

A reasonable question is this. How much money do we pay the police for just on “road safety” (car culture) issues? Wait a minute, weren’t they initially comissioned to catch bad guys?

We are mad about cars in this country.

Realy, that is like saying we are crazy about food, cars are just a necessity of life in the worlds largest island.

Hanksinatra said :

Guide me, because I’ve spent a few years in othe countries. Is it really still all about cars here? I mean everything including all fun is nearly banned to keep cars happy…a ridiculous concept probably killing more people than all road safety issues put together. Better just to get a life.

A reasonable question is this. How much money do we pay the police for just on “road safety” (car culture) issues? Wait a minute, weren’t they initially comissioned to catch bad guys?

We are mad about cars in this country.

Horse and cart for all…?

Guide me, because I’ve spent a few years in othe countries. Is it really still all about cars here? I mean everything including all fun is nearly banned to keep cars happy…a ridiculous concept probably killing more people than all road safety issues put together. Better just to get a life.

A reasonable question is this. How much money do we pay the police for just on “road safety” (car culture) issues? Wait a minute, weren’t they initially comissioned to catch bad guys?

We are mad about cars in this country.

Paul0075 said :

It used to be that you didn’t have to indicate at zipper merges, such as those marked with Form One Lane on the pavement. You only had to indicate if you crossed a marked line on the road. Not sure if that has changed though.

No, you still don’t have to indicate to ‘Form 1 Lane’. The rule book says ‘be prepared to’. I guess if there’s someone up your clacker it might be a good idea but if there’s no one around don’t worry about it.

Fuzzy said :

Paul0075 said :

I learnt to drive in the late 90s and the rule then was to indicate when merging, no matter the situation. Form one lane, exit ramp, left turn at slip lane…

As for roundabouts, indicate left or right (or nothing for straight) on approach and then change to left indicator to show that you are exiting the roundabout. I was told the exit indicator was more to be polite to other drivers though, not required unless it’s a large roundabout – near Convention Centre, Barton Hwy etc.

There is nothing in the Australian Road Rules that mandates indicating at what you term ‘zipper merges’ as one is not, changing lanes. You are legally required to indicate if you cross a lane marking e.g. on-ramp or off-ramp where you cross dotted lines.

Regarding roundabouts, you are not legally required to indicate on exiting a roundabout if it is not practicable to do so. ‘Sorry officer it was not practicable for me to do so’; and they can’t give you a ticket, simple.

And of course, the unwillingness of drivers to indicate when turning at intersections makes it deadly for pedestrians – about to cross with green lights, car coming up isn’t indicating…try crossing at that point and you’re taking your life in your hands.

And then there’s the strange habit of turning and *then* indicating!

Fuzzy said :

Paul0075 said :

It used to be that you didn’t have to indicate at zipper merges, such as those marked with Form One Lane on the pavement. You only had to indicate if you crossed a marked line on the road. Not sure if that has changed though.

I learnt to drive in the late 90s and the rule then was to indicate when merging, no matter the situation. Form one lane, exit ramp, left turn at slip lane…

As for roundabouts, indicate left or right (or nothing for straight) on approach and then change to left indicator to show that you are exiting the roundabout. I was told the exit indicator was more to be polite to other drivers though, not required unless it’s a large roundabout – near Convention Centre, Barton Hwy etc.

It’s really not that hard is it ?

Paul0075 said :

It used to be that you didn’t have to indicate at zipper merges, such as those marked with Form One Lane on the pavement. You only had to indicate if you crossed a marked line on the road. Not sure if that has changed though.

I learnt to drive in the late 90s and the rule then was to indicate when merging, no matter the situation. Form one lane, exit ramp, left turn at slip lane…

As for roundabouts, indicate left or right (or nothing for straight) on approach and then change to left indicator to show that you are exiting the roundabout. I was told the exit indicator was more to be polite to other drivers though, not required unless it’s a large roundabout – near Convention Centre, Barton Hwy etc.

It used to be that you didn’t have to indicate at zipper merges, such as those marked with Form One Lane on the pavement. You only had to indicate if you crossed a marked line on the road. Not sure if that has changed though.

jayskette said :

My pet gripe however would have to be the people who enters roundabouts in the LEFT LANE and then TURNS RIGHT. WTF!

What about turning left from the right hand lane? You can do this when turning left at the roundabout from Monaro Hwy onto Morshead Drive.

Similarly, when turning right from Morshead Drive onto Monaro Hwy at the same roundabout you can turn right from the left lane.

nemothorx said :

In fact, if you think about it, the only time a driver should be on a roundabout and *not* indicating is if they’re travelling straight ahead, and are in the first part of their own journey through the roundabout (ie, less than a quarter of the whole roundabout)

That’s not much time to be not indicating.

So anyone not indicating outside that small criteria is someone to give way to, since their intentions are unclear.

It’s not hard, and it’s certainly not risking anyones life.

The problem is that on big roundabouts, you’re actually in the same situation as having to indicate to turn a corner normally. While it’s not a problem on small roundabouts, you can’t have a law for “big” roundabouts and “small” roundabouts. So it’s just easiest to legislate on “all” roundabouts for one type of behaviour and let enforcement be someone else’s issue or judgement in terms of issuing fines.

People are going to do their own thing based on their own level of judgement. I prefer to know the road rules and drive by them. I prefer to be lawful. Other people don’t and there’s nothing I can do about it except personally hope that the police eventually enforce road rules with the threat of summary roadside execution by flamethrower.

In fact, if you think about it, the only time a driver should be on a roundabout and *not* indicating is if they’re travelling straight ahead, and are in the first part of their own journey through the roundabout (ie, less than a quarter of the whole roundabout)

That’s not much time to be not indicating.

So anyone not indicating outside that small criteria is someone to give way to, since their intentions are unclear.

It’s not hard, and it’s certainly not risking anyones life.

chilli said :

Surely indicating left if you’re going left, right if you’re going right, and no indicator if you’re traveling straight ahead (to the exit in front of you)

Out of curiosity, what do you think the current rules are when you head into a roundabout?

jayskette said :

Actually, nemothorx, if you go straight, you are still required to indicate LEFT as you exit… but since a lot of roundabouts are so small here that you can see the entire roundabout as you enter, most people wouldn’t bother.

Yup, I’m well aware of that drivers should do that – so when someone doesn’t indicate (as the OP complained about), it indicates to me that [a] they don’t know what they should signal, and [b] I’m going to assume they are going to remain on the roundabout until I see otherwise. (either by active signalling, or actually turning off)

chilli said :

Surely indicating left if you’re going left, right if you’re going right, and no indicator if you’re traveling straight ahead (to the exit in front of you) would reduce the confusion of the driver and the other people in the roundabout who have to interpret what the driver is doing.

Just a thought.

With the addition that you have to indicate left as you exit the roundabout, even if you are travelling straight, you have just described what the rules actually are. 🙂

On the other hand, there will always be fktards who, no matter how much indicator warning you give them, drive right up your arse and high beam you for slowing them down when you want to turn off a main route. And we’re talking dual lane.

Breaking them on their own steering wheel, as challenging as it may be, is too good for them.

Actually, nemothorx, if you go straight, you are still required to indicate LEFT as you exit… but since a lot of roundabouts are so small here that you can see the entire roundabout as you enter, most people wouldn’t bother.

My pet gripe however would have to be the people who enters roundabouts in the LEFT LANE and then TURNS RIGHT. WTF!

Confusion about what the roundabout indicator rules are, even with diagrams, is proof that this is a bad road rule. It is ambiguous, poorly adhered to, and confuses road users. So maybe the best solution is to change the rule, not get angry at those who don’t understand it.

Surely indicating left if you’re going left, right if you’re going right, and no indicator if you’re traveling straight ahead (to the exit in front of you) would reduce the confusion of the driver and the other people in the roundabout who have to interpret what the driver is doing.

Just a thought.

Not indicating at all, indicating after starting to change lanes, indicating only if the driver sees another car and the inappropriate indicating or not at roundabouts are all personal pet gripes.

I thought about this post this morning as I had to dodge a car, which had been stopped at a stop sign, suddenly turned right without indicating and headed straight for me.

Indicating Or Not Indicating Is Not A Big Problem,Compared To Drivers Out There Who Are Banned From Driving Till 2070!!

Disinformation said :

If you’d like though, we could pretend I DID say that, for the sake of continuing on some perfectly good outraged exchange?
It’s not like it’s decent weather for anything else at present.

Oh, it’s lovely weather up here in Brisbane! 😉

obTopic: my biggest road complaint up here is that slip lanes seem abnormally short. It’s not a driver problem, it’s simply road design :/

nemothorx said :

My apologies, I misread names and thought I was responding to the OP :/

Nah, that’s cool. It happens.
The quotation formatting of this site in italics isn’t quite as distinctive as boxed and shaded quotations in other forums. I’ve seen people occasionally misattribute quoted sections here before.

If you’d like though, we could pretend I DID say that, for the sake of continuing on some perfectly good outraged exchange?
It’s not like it’s decent weather for anything else at present.

Galactaphonic said :

Well If you are at a roundabout and someone is approaching from strainght in front without indercating. You assume they are going straight ahead. But no…… they are actually turning right.

New special road rule for you.

Once they are on the roundabout, assume they are going to stay on the roundabout until they indicate otherwise.

Are we happy? Will you stop driving in front of cars and endangering life and limb now?

Tooks said :

Galactaphonic said :

Tooks said :

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

No you’re not.

I take my life into my hands every time I approach a roundabout wondering what the driver approaching from the right is going to do.

Why would you be taking your life into your hands? If in doubt about what someone is doing, then give way.

Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

Spoken like a true Canberran. The type that doesn’t care for anyone but themselves.

Are you completely thick? Explain how you came to that conclusion? Which part do you disagree with?

Not as thick as some (Canberrans)

nemothorx said :

Watson said :

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

Spoken like a true Canberran. The type that doesn’t care for anyone but themselves.

I’m still waiting for you to explain how you are putting your life at risk by driving in front of other (non-indicating) drivers, and that this is somehow their fault.

Well If you are at a roundabout and someone is approaching from strainght in front without indercating. You assume they are going straight ahead. But no…… they are actually turning right.

Galactaphonic said :

Tooks said :

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

No you’re not.

I take my life into my hands every time I approach a roundabout wondering what the driver approaching from the right is going to do.

Why would you be taking your life into your hands? If in doubt about what someone is doing, then give way.

Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

Spoken like a true Canberran. The type that doesn’t care for anyone but themselves.

Are you completely thick? Explain how you came to that conclusion? Which part do you disagree with?

nemothorx said :

The fact remains that you said you take your life into your hands every time you approach a roundabout – and that the only way that this is possible is if you are irresponsibly driving in front of traffic.

So you know what? Stop doing that.

My apologies, I misread names and thought I was responding to the OP :/

Disinformation said :

The fact remains that people will argue until they’re blue in the face, when the information is available from the correct sources if they’d bother to look.

The fact remains that you said you take your life into your hands every time you approach a roundabout – and that the only way that this is possible is if you are irresponsibly driving in front of traffic.

So you know what? Stop doing that.

HenryBG said :

Disinformation said :

You’d think that people would be able to click on a link, look at pictures and figure out how to indicate in reference to exiting a roundabout. But with the lack of ability to comprehend who has quoted what, and what was said, this doesn’t surprise me at all..

You’d think it was pretty clear, but then *you* go ahead and make a statement that contradicts the facts.

Please, please tell us you’ve re-read your own link and please confirm with us that you’ve corrected your misapprehension.

My observation is that regardless of who is correct, people don’t care and aren’t capable of figuring it out for themselves, even when provided the evidence. But if you can figure out how anything that I’ve stated based on my original posts, contradicts the pictured methods of roundabout useage, knock yourself out.
I adopted the exact method the second it was relayed to us by the media. I also adopted the “Stop and give way” at the stopsign policy, when that was rolled out.

The fact remains that people will argue until they’re blue in the face, when the information is available from the correct sources if they’d bother to look.

I have a new assertion.

People who complain about other drivers not indicating are, in fact, simply unobservant, and so don’t SEE the indicator.

Sure, there are plenty of people who don’t indicate, and they’re noticeable and memorable for this reason. But that doesn’t make them a majority. It just makes them memorable.

Lots of people drive poorly, and every city has it’s quirks that cause issues. (Melbourne drivers don’t understand lanes. Brisbane drivers have to suffer tiny short slip lanes. Canberra drivers don’t indicate. Oh, but neither to Adelaide, Sydney, Hobart, etc drivers. Perth drivers we righteously ignore as being foreign and strange 😉

Really, if most people were driving as poorly as the wingers here make out, then our road toll would be much higher!

Watson said :

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

Spoken like a true Canberran. The type that doesn’t care for anyone but themselves.

I’m still waiting for you to explain how you are putting your life at risk by driving in front of other (non-indicating) drivers, and that this is somehow their fault.

Tooks said :

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

No you’re not.

I take my life into my hands every time I approach a roundabout wondering what the driver approaching from the right is going to do.

Why would you be taking your life into your hands? If in doubt about what someone is doing, then give way.

Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

Spoken like a true Canberran. The type that doesn’t care for anyone but themselves.

Mysteryman said :

Tooks said :

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

No you’re not.

I take my life into my hands every time I approach a roundabout wondering what the driver approaching from the right is going to do.

Why would you be taking your life into your hands? If in doubt about what someone is doing, then give way.

Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

^^ You sound like one of those muppets who doesn’t indicate.

This thread gives useful insight into why so many people drive poorly on the roads in Canberra. Many of you don’t know the road rules, and even when presented with them, don’t know how to read them and can’t understand what they mean.

Then there are the “so what if we break the law, it’s not that big a deal. You’re just pedantic. Get over it”, people. You are possibly the most irritating and the least deserving of licenses. You don’t like following the road rules, stay off the road.

You sound like one of those muppets who makes assumptions based on, well, nothing. The minority of people who fail to indicate annoy me too, but to suggest the majority of drivers don’t indicate is a load of crap.

Tooks said :

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

No you’re not.

I take my life into my hands every time I approach a roundabout wondering what the driver approaching from the right is going to do.

Why would you be taking your life into your hands? If in doubt about what someone is doing, then give way.

Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

^^ You sound like one of those muppets who doesn’t indicate.

This thread gives useful insight into why so many people drive poorly on the roads in Canberra. Many of you don’t know the road rules, and even when presented with them, don’t know how to read them and can’t understand what they mean.

Then there are the “so what if we break the law, it’s not that big a deal. You’re just pedantic. Get over it”, people. You are possibly the most irritating and the least deserving of licenses. You don’t like following the road rules, stay off the road.

nemothorx said :

huh? That looks like the same thing to me.

If you are exiting the roundabout in a straight line relative to your entrance, you don’t indicate when you enter the roundabout, and you DO indicate left for the exit.

That’s the same in both NSW and ACT.

How I do it when I go straight across a roundabout is that I start indicating left as soon as I have completely passed the exit to my left. That just seems logical to me? And I really appreciate other people doing it because I do believe it saves time. Mind you, I do realise that you should never trust that people are going to do what their indicators tell you they will do, but in some situations it’s worth a calculated risk.

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

No you’re not.

I take my life into my hands every time I approach a roundabout wondering what the driver approaching from the right is going to do.

Why would you be taking your life into your hands? If in doubt about what someone is doing, then give way.

Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?

No. Is it as big a problem as you make out? Also no.

Disinformation said :

You’d think that people would be able to click on a link, look at pictures and figure out how to indicate in reference to exiting a roundabout. But with the lack of ability to comprehend who has quoted what, and what was said, this doesn’t surprise me at all..

You’d think it was pretty clear, but then *you* go ahead and make a statement that contradicts the facts.

Please, please tell us you’ve re-read your own link and please confirm with us that you’ve corrected your misapprehension.

You’d think that people would be able to click on a link, look at pictures and figure out how to indicate in reference to exiting a roundabout. But with the lack of ability to comprehend who has quoted what, and what was said, this doesn’t surprise me at all..

Holden Caulfield said :

RoyBatty said :

There also appears to be a chronic “Engage brakes, slow down… then indicate … mentality…

Not so sure it is behaviour more prevalent in Canberra than anywhere else, but, yes, it shits me too. A work colleague of mine has a habit of using her indicator as she turns the steering wheel to get around a corner.
That’s a “confirm-acator”

Really, why bother?!

I-filed said :

Jane Proxy said :

Yes, it’s annoying to have your right of way rudely snatched away from you by someone who failed to indicate. Annoying, but not necessarily life threatening.

Those roundabouts have four “give way” signs – because no-one has a “right of way”. Drivers are not obliged to give way to the right at an ACT roundabout.

quoting from:
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/64479/Road_Rules_2011_Part_C2_v3.pdf

Page 51:
”
Giving way when entering a roundabout

A driver entering a roundabout must give
way to any vehicle in the roundabout.
“

Jane Proxy said :

Yes, it’s annoying to have your right of way rudely snatched away from you by someone who failed to indicate. Annoying, but not necessarily life threatening.

Those roundabouts have four “give way” signs – because no-one has a “right of way”. Drivers are not obliged to give way to the right at an ACT roundabout.

One thing I have noticed, is that tailgaters indicate a lot. Have a look if you don’t believe me… watch the next tailgater (you won’t have to wait long), and see how they compulsively indicate, while tailgating doggedly.

Galactaphonic said :

nemothorx said :

Grail said :

It was pretty clear to me that Galactaphonic was

…being a dramallama.

There, I fixed it for you.

No not really just didn’t want to end up in hospital or worse still dead.

How could you have ended up in hospital by assuming someone was staying on the roundabout by not indicating? At worst, you are inconvenienced.

Anyway, clearly I was mistaken. You are in fact an illogicallama.

Simple Answer Is…Like Brains At Birth….Indicators Are Optional Extras!!!

nemothorx said :

Grail said :

It was pretty clear to me that Galactaphonic was

…being a dramallama.

There, I fixed it for you.

No not really just didn’t want to end up in hospital or worse still dead.

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

If they are actually failing to indicate because they’re making a turn, then that is an entirely different rant.

If you’re expecting them to indicate right, when they are driving straight – then please, learn the road rules, because it sounds like you might just be being a menace.

So if they approach from the right they have 4 options (assuming it’s a regular 4 point roundabout). Turn left, go straight through, turn right or do a 180 turn. All options you need to indicate as you exit a roundabout.
Indicating
When approaching a roundabout, if you are turning left or right, you must indicate left or right.

When exiting a roundabout, whether you are turning left, right or even going straight ahead, you must always indicate a left turn just before you exit, unless it is not practical to do so.
quote from: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/roadrules/roundabouts.html

ainira said :

Disinformation said :

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

Ok, that’s news to me. The NSW road rules are that when going straight, you only indicate left when you exit:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/roundabouts_guide.pdf

I imagine many people in Canberra are originally from somewhere interstate, so slight differences in road rules such as this probably add to the confusion.

huh? That looks like the same thing to me.

If you are exiting the roundabout in a straight line relative to your entrance, you don’t indicate when you enter the roundabout, and you DO indicate left for the exit.

That’s the same in both NSW and ACT.

When I fail to indicate to indicate lane change, it has nothing to do with lazyness. It is none of your freakin’ buisness which lane I intend to merge into. That is my buisness and my buisness alone.

jk!

Would you be referring to the change that meant every driver has a responsibility to give way to everyone and everything (effectively). So no matter the circumstance you had a responsibility to give way to ‘it’ so you can be found partially at fault if you hit ‘it’

At my last advanced driving course the instructor explained that if you are travelling in heavy traffic on a multi-lane road and another driver approaches from a side street on your right, once they have performed their stop maneuver even though they are on a piddly side street to your multi-laned major traffic flow they have right of way. Needless to say we were all wearing our WTF faces

I am definitely in the minority when it comes to using an indicator when changing lanes.

You are definitely in the majority when it comes to having a whinge.

Disinformation said :

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

Funny you should mention misquoting the road rules.

Nemothorx said that approaching a roundabout with no indicator means you’re going straight ahead. Your spiffy little advertisment says that you need to indicate after you enter the roundabout if you’re going straight ahead. Indicating before you enter the roundabout tells everyone that you’re turning either right or left. If you’re going straight, you indicate left after you enter the roundabout. You don’t indicate as you approach the roundabout, because people might get confused and think that you’re turning left or right.

The people who created the ad even helpfully underlined the words ‘before’ and ‘after’ when they apply so that you don’t get confused.

Disinformation said :

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

Ok, that’s news to me. The NSW road rules are that when going straight, you only indicate left when you exit:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/roundabouts_guide.pdf

I imagine many people in Canberra are originally from somewhere interstate, so slight differences in road rules such as this probably add to the confusion.

Disinformation said :

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

Unbelievable. Some people just don’t get it.

“operate the left hand indicator after entering the roundabout”

Disinformation said :

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

That’s great. It’s the same URL I found earlier (but didn’t bother to link 🙂

I am wondering how you’re interpreting it different to me though.

Let me re-state what I said before, and clarify what may be the confusion?

If they’re approaching you from the right (ie, approaching the roundabout, not ON the roundabout), and have no indicator, then you assume that they will travel through the roundabout and continue on their ‘straight ahead’ route.

For the record, what irritates me about roundabout indicators are people who, when I am following them, incorrectly indicate right when they intend to travel straight. It’s not putting my life at risk or anything, but it’s irritating as hell when someone goes to the effort to use an indicator, and then gets it wrong!

Disinformation said :

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

Erm, Disinformation, did you understand what nemothorx said? That PDF supports his/her argument; if you are going straight ahead, you don’t need to indicate when entering a roundabout .

Perhaps it could have been written differently so you could better understand, but I got what nemothorx was saying, so not sure what you read into it.

RoyBatty said :

There also appears to be a chronic “Engage brakes, slow down… then indicate … mentality…

Not so sure it is behaviour more prevalent in Canberra than anywhere else, but, yes, it shits me too. A work colleague of mine has a habit of using her indicator as she turns the steering wheel to get around a corner.

Really, why bother?!

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

Er, yeah. Until it wasn’t correct and legal behaviour.
The road rules are pretty easy to find and understand.
Misquoting them is a pastime on the Internet.
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/14013/roundaboutrulesadvertisement.pdf

+1 to this OP

Good to know I’m not the only one irritated by this. At roundabouts I usually wait and see whether a non-indicating car is actually going straight or turning before I go in, I never trust them.

I find that the ones who don’t indicate are either:
1) Crazy hoons who swerve and speed anyway
2) SUVs who are carrying precious cargo (although not precious enough to not risk their lives)

Of course I am generalising but meh.

From the road guides:
When approaching a multi-lane roundabout with the intention of continuing straight ahead, approach in either the left or right hand lane and operate the left hand indicator after entering the roundabout and continue to indicate throughout the turn.
“After” was bolded in the guide. To me that’s the only real difference than if it was a normal 4 way intersection with give way signs. However in saying that, I agree that roundabout usage in Canberra is woeful at best. I love the clowns who stop no matter what. Wow that’s so awesome. I remember when roundabouts where first implemented that would happen and get all nostalgic in CBR when I see it happen regularly.
Near me is a 3 way roundabout. There are always people who are approaching it as if it is a tee intersection but do not indicate right. I find it happens more in CBR and may be a reason why there seems to be a swing to putting in traffic lights in situations where a roundabout would suffice and be better.
There also appears to be a chronic “Engage brakes, slow down… then indicate when turning right of a road” mentality in CBR. After commuting daily through SYD and MELB I find if I treat every CBR driver as slow and possibly mentally deficient I am safer.

Grail said :

nemothorx said :

If you’re expecting them to indicate right, when they are driving straight – then please, learn the road rules, because it sounds like you might just be being a menace.

It was pretty clear to me that Galactaphonic was concerned that since nobody uses indicators there’s no way of telling whether the car entering the roundabout is turning left or continuing straight ahead, thus one must wait until the car has committed to turning left before one can enter the roundabout. That’s a few seconds in which one could have been half way across the roundabout (i.e.: have let another car through the roundabout and bot be holding up traffic).

Yes, it’s annoying to have your right of way rudely snatched away from you by someone who failed to indicate. Annoying, but not necessarily life threatening.

Arguably the most likely way for you take your life into your hands in this scenario is to enter the roundabout when all of the available information you have tells you that the car approaching from your right is going straight ahead (i.e. going to collide with you).

I’m not sure how having to give way when you didn’t necessarily need to is putting you at risk of anything more than inconvenience.

Since there is a limit to the number of ways that a person can risk his life on a roundabout, if you’re going to talk about taking your life into your hands it isn’t unreasonable to assume that you’re (a)talking about a course of action that falls within that limit, or (b)being melodramatic.

Should I just assume that people are more inclined towards hyperbole than stupidity?

What’s the point of them indicating on a roundabout? It seems that the majority is under the delusion that, when on a roundabout, you must indicate RIGHT at all times, until you are off the roundabout.

Galactaphonic its actually quite difficult for the natives here to use an indicator, it requires far too much effort 🙂

Any driver entering a roundabout must give way to ANY vehicle in the roundabout, not just the ones on your right

I have found Canberra drivers to be quite good actually. There is of course, people who every so often fail to indicate but I have forgotten once or twice so I could give them the benefit of the doubt. I have found that a higher percentage of people fail to indicate early enough though. If your car is already moving in to another late using your indicator is pretty much a waste of time.

The most interesting thing I have found since moving northside in Canberra is indicating to come off a roundabout. If you are going straight you should turn on the left indicators at some point. I have seen many cars turn on their right indicators part the way through whilst still going straight.

Henry82 said :

Basically you have to treat it as if everyones brains are not working.

Fixed that for you.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

I suspect you have misunderstood.

Misunderstood what? The OPs ambiguous rant, or the road rules – which are pretty clear and as I described above.

Grail said :

It was pretty clear to me that Galactaphonic was

…being a dramallama.

There, I fixed it for you.

Grail said :

A little consideration means traffic all over the town will flow more smoothly.

Yup, agreed entirely. Doesn’t stop the original poster being unclear about what the rant is about (OP asks “Is it seriously isn’t that hard to put an indicator on?” as if expecting that an indicator MUST be enabled, and the lack of one is an obvious ambiguity)

Henry82 said :

>implying anyone in Canberra can use a roundabout properly.

Basically you have to treat it as if everyones indicators are not working.

Roger that. I am a daily commuter cyclist. This manifestation of laziness is at best annoying, and at worst dangerous.

>implying anyone in Canberra can use a roundabout properly.

Basically you have to treat it as if everyones indicators are not working.

nemothorx said :

If you’re expecting them to indicate right, when they are driving straight – then please, learn the road rules, because it sounds like you might just be being a menace.

It was pretty clear to me that Galactaphonic was concerned that since nobody uses indicators there’s no way of telling whether the car entering the roundabout is turning left or continuing straight ahead, thus one must wait until the car has committed to turning left before one can enter the roundabout. That’s a few seconds in which one could have been half way across the roundabout (i.e.: have let another car through the roundabout and bot be holding up traffic).

A similar problem occurs when a car doesn’t indicate if they’re turning right or going straight ahead, but it is only of concern at two-lane roundabouts: a car turning right in the inside lane means that it is safe for me to enter the roundabout in the outside lane to turn left or continue straight. A car on the inside lane continuing straight means it is not safe to enter.

A little consideration means traffic all over the town will flow more smoothly.

I just went on a drive down to Belconnen, and decided to put your claims to a thoroughly unscientific test during the trip. So I counted the number of times I saw drivers indicating correctly, vs not indicating. The score ended up being 104 – 4. Granted, that was for everything, not just changing lanes or at roundabouts, but I thought it was a pretty good result for Canberra drivers actually.

So in answer to your question, most people seem to say no, it isn’t really that hard to put an indicator on.

I like it when everyone around you tries as hard as they can to close down the gap as soon as they see you indicating (because you want to be in that gap, crazy I know). Bonus points for gaps that could have safely fit more than one more vehicle.

I suspect this behaviour is why some people don’t indicate.

nemothorx said :

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

If they are actually failing to indicate because they’re making a turn, then that is an entirely different rant.

If you’re expecting them to indicate right, when they are driving straight – then please, learn the road rules, because it sounds like you might just be being a menace.

I suspect you have misunderstood.

Some people do seem to get very attached to their indicator, headlight, and brake light bulbs! So much so, that once they blow, people continue to drive with them not working.

It does irritate me so how many people dont bother using their indicators though. It really isn’t that hard…

So if someone is approaching you from the right at a roundabout (I am assuming a pretty basic “four exits at 90° to each other setup), and has no indicator, then you assume they’re going straight ahead – because that is correct and legal behaviour.

If they are actually failing to indicate because they’re making a turn, then that is an entirely different rant.

If you’re expecting them to indicate right, when they are driving straight – then please, learn the road rules, because it sounds like you might just be being a menace.

The conservation of indicator light bulbs is serious business here in the ‘berra.

It’s a family tradition that has been proudly handed down from generation to generation since the 70’s. I’m sure it would take more than a couple of blow-ins complaining on an obscure blog to change the tide 🙂

But for the record, I’m a religious indicator-user. I, too, find it annoying when people refuse to use indicators. I especially hate people driving urban combat vehicles doing this, since the attitude that they are taking is “everyone else is responsible for my safety, F— you all!”