Store Bag Searches and My Rights in Canberra?

Amanda Hugankis said :

Wouldn’t it be nice not to have to worry about things like tampons and such.

Its fantastic.

Captain RAAF said :

On a kinda related note, I have been informed that you can legally take drinks from those open air drink stands situated near the checkouts, as long as they are not behind a door.

It’s some old law that few know about but I will endeavor to find out what its called and get back to you.

Free coke!!!!!!

You can take anything from the shop, it’s only when you try to leave past the last pay point and don’t pay when you are committing the offence of theft.

You have no legal right to the drinks in the fridge at the checkouts either, it would be the same as taking cheese from the cheese fridge.

I see no point in joining the conga-line of arsemaggots and wannabe-douchebags who get off on voluntarily showing their bags to security staff.

It must be even harder now fwith people carrying goods without shopping bags or using their hand bags as carry bags.

JessP said :

Just get over yourselves, open your goddamn bag/s and make it as painless as possible. If you didn’t steal anything then no problem.

Papiere, Bitte

If I ever wanted to deliberately steal from a store, I would go and show my bags to the security person when I exit.

Oh for Gods sake people! Just get over yourselves, open your goddamn bag/s and make it as painless as possible. If you didn’t steal anything then no problem. If you did then you get what you deserve.

On a kinda related note, I have been informed that you can legally take drinks from those open air drink stands situated near the checkouts, as long as they are not behind a door.

It’s some old law that few know about but I will endeavor to find out what its called and get back to you.

Free coke!!!!!!

If I’m walking out and the bag is in my hands, i will open it and show them the contents. If i am wearing my backpack and they want me to take it off, i just say sorry and keep walking. Occasionally they shout ‘Sir, SIR…’ but I’,m usually well away at this point. Im not a thief, so if they want to summon security to track me down – go ahead. i would ring the police immediately.

It is difficult these days to keep items separate as one is expected to pay a politically imposed fee for carry bags, and some people out of stubbornness refuse to surrender to this extortion. I just shove everything into my backpack or courier bag, and keep receipts in a shirt pocket.

Of all store security methods, the one i object to most is the gluing of magnetic security strips into books. I have stopped purchasing from establishments that do this – and im sure that is the sole reason they no longer trade.

Im not opposed to opening my bags for inspection – but the problem i have is this: there are very few floor staff in many stores so actually finding one to ask a question is difficult. These staff could also observe thieves in operation. By assuming ALL CUSTOMERS are thieves, which asking for all bags to be opened upon exit implies, is distasteful.

I saw a guy in Civic Aldi on Monday shove two bottles of O’Donnell’s Irish Cream down the front of his pants (ewww). He walked out of the store without anyone stopping him to check his *bags*. I told the checkout guy and he chased after him and asked him what he had down his pants (double ewww). “Aw, these?” he said, and handed them back then strolled away.

Personally, I wouldn’t have touched them.

Back on subject – I always open my handbag, back-pack, or shopping bags when I walk out of any of these stores – basically, the staff never seem to take any interest in what’s inside them so I think they’re just there to deter the lifters.

I generally let shop guards look in any bag I have if they want. I don’t steal, and it takes all of 5 seconds, so who really cares?

Disinformation said :

Regardless of what Retailers put up in their stores in terms of advice, it’s just a convention that they agree to in terms of a code of conduct.
It’s not legally enforceable.
It’s like the “Parking for XXXX customers only” signs in front of many Canberra businesses. Or “Cars will be towed”.

Much security theater plays upon ignorance. Much posturing by security guards isn’t legitimate and any holder of a Certificate 111 level in security operations (which was required by registered security guards in Canberra) will know exactly what they can and can’t do.
Looking in the bag, or grabbing possessions of a private citizen has repercussions.
But knowing your rights doesn’t mean that you have the right to be an asshole. That’s purely for individual discretion.

For someone who uses the name of “Disinformation” you certainly do seem to post relatively straight forwards and true answers.

I will slightly disagree with that parking comment, as a private organisation can arrange to have cars towed from their premises but that’s going OT…

PBO said :

Amanda Hugankis said :

dtc said :

How about you just all become men, and carry a wallet and keys and, um, thats its. No bag to search. We may be simple but we are efficient.

Wouldn’t it be nice not to have to worry about things like tampons and such.

It be worse, you could be coming back from a fyshwick shopping trip and have to deal with bag-checkers seeing a 12 inch vibrating gift from a fyshwick tourist shop.

Bag Checker: Thank you for shopping at K-Mart, may i please see your………oh dear lord! Oh my, Do we sell them? oh ummmm, arent you a little short for…….never mind, have a nice day and thank you for shopping at K-Mart.

Shopper: “Don’t look so shocked!!! Have you never seen a power-drill before?! I’m planning on doing some DIY! … so to speak *ahem*”

Regardless of what Retailers put up in their stores in terms of advice, it’s just a convention that they agree to in terms of a code of conduct.
It’s not legally enforceable.
It’s like the “Parking for XXXX customers only” signs in front of many Canberra businesses. Or “Cars will be towed”. Much security theater plays upon ignorance. Much posturing by security guards isn’t legitimate and any holder of a Certificate 111 level in security operations (which was required by registered security guards in Canberra) will know exactly what they can and can’t do.
Looking in the bag, or grabbing possessions of a private citizen has repercussions.
But knowing your rights doesn’t mean that you have the right to be an asshole. That’s purely for individual discretion.

Break out the tissue’s. What are you carrying around that’s so damn personal? Leave your sex toys and drug paraphernalia in the car if you don’t want shop staff seeing them.
I make a point of heading toward the security staff to show them my bag (usually the baby’s nappy bag). That ensures that any shifty characters hanging around the store exit see’s that bags are being searched and possibly chooses not to shoplift that day which reduces the store losses and therefore the surcharge that store puts on each item to cover loss from theft.
Either that or actually buy something and go through the self service checkout. Never had a bag searched there.

Amanda Hugankis said :

dtc said :

How about you just all become men, and carry a wallet and keys and, um, thats its. No bag to search. We may be simple but we are efficient.

Wouldn’t it be nice not to have to worry about things like tampons and such.

It be worse, you could be coming back from a fyshwick shopping trip and have to deal with bag-checkers seeing a 12 inch vibrating gift from a fyshwick tourist shop.

Bag Checker: Thank you for shopping at K-Mart, may i please see your………oh dear lord! Oh my, Do we sell them? oh ummmm, arent you a little short for…….never mind, have a nice day and thank you for shopping at K-Mart.

dtc said :

How about you just all become men, and carry a wallet and keys and, um, thats its. No bag to search. We may be simple but we are efficient.

Wouldn’t it be nice not to have to worry about things like tampons and such.

HenryBG said :

Amanda Hugankis said :

Erg0 said :

I struggle to understand why people think that a bag check is equivalent to an accusation of theft. You can’t leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to decide ……”.

But they leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to make decisions about whether what they see in the bag actually belongs to you or has been knicked? My handbag contains a whole heap of stuff, generally stuff I’ve purchased at stores, including the stores that conduct such bag checks – ……

So what is said 16-year-old to do?! What am I to do, for that matter … should I carry receipts for my panadol on the off chance that said 16-year-old decide that perhaps I have lifted it from their store?

How about thinking about the best way to help them do their job, cheerfully and politely?

Bloody-minded morons like Myles, bullying their “inferiors” by being rude to them and obstructing them from doing their jobs, make the world a nastier place than it needs to be.

What of anything I wrote indicated that I was rude and/or impolite?!

I, in fact, am the dunce that walks up to the 16-year-olds and presents my bag for inspection! I was merely pointing out that it puts the bag-checker in an awkward position (a position I feel for, and hence I present my bag so it alleviates the embarrassment for both of us when they are forced to ask), and I suspect that all it does it prevent the ‘knickers’ from putting the items they’re knicking in their bags, not from stealing them altogether.

dph said :

The one thing you’re taught with bag searches is to NEVER put your hand inside a persons bag. You always ask them to remove the item/items themselves.

Basically, by placing your hand in the bag, you’re ‘tampering’ with any suspected evidence/stolen item. They could argue that you placed the item in the bag yourself.

…but mostly you don’t want to find out the hard way that my handbag is half full of used syringes.

How about you just all become men, and carry a wallet and keys and, um, thats its. No bag to search. We may be simple but we are efficient.

Henry82 said :

I could be wrong, but probably by opening your bag for inspection you indirectly agreed to be searched and had your possessions touched. Other “rules” associated with searching are usually industry agreements, not law.

Yes, by opening your bag at an exit you have agreed to be searched, however you can withdraw that agreement at any time.

Agreeing to a search does not automatically mean you’ve agreed for any touching of your processions. You would need to provide that consent separately, and again you can withdraw that at any time.

Sir_Orangepeel said :

My advice is to avoid going to shops altogether.

Definitely. And make sure to avoid the point to point camera on Hindmarsh on your way to avoiding the shops.

“Bloody-minded morons like Myles, bullying their “inferiors” by being rude to them and obstructing them from doing their jobs, make the world a nastier place than it needs to be.”

Nah, that’s not what I said. I’m polite about refusing and you’ve turned insisting on the presumption of innocence into “obstruction.” Logic fail worthy of a police state.

I used to do loss prevention for ColesMyer and our training insisted 70% of “shrinkage” came from staff, particularly management and, amusingly, loss prevention.

Statistically, it should be the customer checking the security guard’s bag for stolen goods.

schmeah said :

Erg0 said :

Does this mean that you never fly anywhere, because airport security is accusing you of being a terrorist?

Checking people for bombs and guns at an airport is a pretty long stretch from a teenager checking to see if you’ve stolen a pair of socks .. maybe you’re not offended by someone poking their nose through your stuff in all it’s diversity and exposed glory, for a reason that is more to do with a cheap (and likely ineffective) loss prevention strategy than a national security threat, but to be honest I am.

I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. You don’t like your privacy being invaded with marginal justification, which is fine. Some people literally believe that by subjecting them to a bag check the shop is accusing them, personally, of being a thief, which is the target of the above comparison (as I essentially said in the sentence before the one you quoted).

Why don’t you see teenagers doing this humiliating task at bigger department stores? Because they bother to invest in loss prevention methods that are actually effective; video, electronic and personnel surveillance.

Most larger department stores have multiple exits to cover, which changes the cost/benefit equation a bit. Their registers are also postioned away from the exits, meaning that they also have to stop and check paying customers on their way out of the store (unlike, say, Big W). I know that Myer in Perth tried compulsory bag checks number of years ago, but ended up dropping them fairly quickly after major customer backlash. I would guess that their walk-through traffic declined sharply, and they realised that they were doing themselves more harm than good. Big W, et al obviously don’t feel that they have the same problem.

My advice is to avoid going to shops altogether.

I could be wrong, but probably by opening your bag for inspection you indirectly agreed to be searched and had your possessions touched. Other “rules” associated with searching are usually industry agreements, not law.

Erg0 said :

Does this mean that you never fly anywhere, because airport security is accusing you of being a terrorist?

Checking people for bombs and guns at an airport is a pretty long stretch from a teenager checking to see if you’ve stolen a pair of socks .. maybe you’re not offended by someone poking their nose through your stuff in all it’s diversity and exposed glory, for a reason that is more to do with a cheap (and likely ineffective) loss prevention strategy than a national security threat, but to be honest I am.

Why don’t you see teenagers doing this humiliating task at bigger department stores? Because they bother to invest in loss prevention methods that are actually effective; video, electronic and personnel surveillance.

The one thing you’re taught with bag searches is to NEVER put your hand inside a persons bag. You always ask them to remove the item/items themselves.

Basically, by placing your hand in the bag, you’re ‘tampering’ with any suspected evidence/stolen item. They could argue that you placed the item in the bag yourself.

Also, to those who refuse to show their bags, get a life. I hope the store in question bar’s you from their premise’s, which they likely would & have every right to do so.

Amanda Hugankis said :

should I carry receipts for my panadol on the off chance that said 16-year-old decide that perhaps I have lifted it from their store?

Nope, that 16 year old need to have actual proof that the box of panadol has been stolen from their store. Simply having it in your bag is not proof, because as you point out, you could have purchased that panadol from another store prior to entry into this store.

So for the OP, the security guard had no right to even attempt to touch anything in your bag. The best they can do is call the police and ask you to stay, and only if they have real evidence that you stole the item in question from their store. To put it simply they need to have seen you put the item into your bag and then deliberately walk out of the store without paying, or alternatively still have a security device attached.

I’ve had the opposite problem of over-zealous security staff. I usually stop and open any bag I happen to have with me and start pulling out the contents along with relevant receipts and the security person usually gets a bit embarrassed by it and has a cursory glance in the bag tells me I’m ok. Never had anyone try to touch anything.

I try to avoid going into a shop with a bag from another shop, just to avoid potential “situations”. Where possible I put the first bag in the car before going to the second shop. Not always practical (especially if your mode of transport is bus or bike).

Put in a complaint. When I was a teenager, my friend and I would typically go to the mall every Saturday, like every teenage girl does. When leaving one store, the manager stopped us, rummaged through my friends’s bag and pulled out her deoderant to the full view of a packed shop and old ladies shaking their heads. We’d actually walked half an hour to get to the mall on a hot day and the deoderant was half empty, but this just wouldn’t do- she kept us there for a good half hour embarassing us. Went home, complained to the company, got an epic apology from head office, manager got fired and we ended up with a lovely gift certificate. To save face now, I open my shopping bags to store assistants at the door as I leave. I don’t go out of my way to walk over to them, but it’s better than being hunted down.

Amanda Hugankis said :

Erg0 said :

I struggle to understand why people think that a bag check is equivalent to an accusation of theft. You can’t leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to decide who looks like a thief and who doesn’t, if only because you’re likely to offend a whole bunch more people by singling them out as “dodgy-looking”.

But they leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to make decisions about whether what they see in the bag actually belongs to you or has been knicked? My handbag contains a whole heap of stuff, generally stuff I’ve purchased at stores, including the stores that conduct such bag checks – e.g. BigWoop and Target. I can at any point in time have a box of Tums or panadol, hair spray or deodorant, a bottle of water, mints, chewing gum, and from time to time (esp in Summer) a spare Tshirt or pair of socks to pair with my flat shoes for walking home in.

So what is said 16-year-old to do?! What am I to do, for that matter … should I carry receipts for my panadol on the off chance that said 16-year-old decide that perhaps I have lifted it from their store?

How about thinking about the best way to help them do their job, cheerfully and politely?

Bloody-minded morons like Myles, bullying their “inferiors” by being rude to them and obstructing them from doing their jobs, make the world a nastier place than it needs to be.

Amanda Hugankis said :

Erg0 said :

I struggle to understand why people think that a bag check is equivalent to an accusation of theft. You can’t leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to decide who looks like a thief and who doesn’t, if only because you’re likely to offend a whole bunch more people by singling them out as “dodgy-looking”.

But they leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to make decisions about whether what they see in the bag actually belongs to you or has been knicked?

I believe the popular term is “security theatre”. It’s not about catching thieves so much as dissuading potential thieves from nicking stuff in the first place.

Erg0 said :

I struggle to understand why people think that a bag check is equivalent to an accusation of theft. You can’t leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to decide who looks like a thief and who doesn’t, if only because you’re likely to offend a whole bunch more people by singling them out as “dodgy-looking”.

But they leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to make decisions about whether what they see in the bag actually belongs to you or has been knicked? My handbag contains a whole heap of stuff, generally stuff I’ve purchased at stores, including the stores that conduct such bag checks – e.g. BigWoop and Target. I can at any point in time have a box of Tums or panadol, hair spray or deodorant, a bottle of water, mints, chewing gum, and from time to time (esp in Summer) a spare Tshirt or pair of socks to pair with my flat shoes for walking home in.

So what is said 16-year-old to do?! What am I to do, for that matter … should I carry receipts for my panadol on the off chance that said 16-year-old decide that perhaps I have lifted it from their store?

I struggle to understand why people think that a bag check is equivalent to an accusation of theft. Clearly stuff is going missing, or they wouldn’t be paying someone to do the checks in the first place. You can’t leave it up to the 16-year-old on the door to decide who looks like a thief and who doesn’t, if only because you’re likely to offend a whole bunch more people by singling them out as “dodgy-looking”. Checking everyone is the least worst option, in that it specifically avoids accusing any single person of having done anything wrong.

If you don’t want to shop at a particular store because it’s a hassle to go through the bag check then fine, but claiming you’re being accused of theft seems like you’re reaching for a reason to be offended. Does this mean that you never fly anywhere, because airport security is accusing you of being a terrorist?

Just politely refuse, it’s hilarious – stumped shop attendants usually don’t know what to do. They just gape as you stroll off.

I actually find it offensive when I’m accused of theft as I leave a shop. And I’m under no requirement to “prove my innocence,” whatever stupid signs or policies are in place.

This so called ‘policy’ is why I have come to refuse to enter certain stores, espcially Big-W and Target. Although, I’ve since been back to Target as it seems easier to simply ignore their door stooges.

I can’t stand the thought of a pimply teenager peering at my personal belongings just because they are told to .. not because they have a reason to believe I’ve lifted something. It’s invasive.

I don’t know what is worse/better; unneccesary bag searches or having people follow you around a store. I think I’d rather the latter because I don’t actually steal, so they can follow me all they want.

Russ said :

Reply

Orangegirl is spot on.

I brought this up on RA back in 2008. If I remember correctly, the general consensus amongst Rioters was anyone who refuses a bag check or makes a big deal out of it is a bit of a tool. I’m still being a bit of a tool.

http://the-riotact.com/bag-checks-at-retail-stores/9882

Russ said :

Reply

with all these rights no wonder their is unabated crime, seen 2 cases people walk in run out with goods unpaid, shop assistants powerless to do anything, good to see the community doing their best to prevent crime with RIGHTS that only the guilty need to use

PBO said :

When a store says that they “Reserve the right” to search bags you can be sure that this is quite wrong.

Because it’s wrong I could have sworn that they’ve changed that to:
It is a condition of entry to this store that you present your bag for inspection upon request

The only problem is that that “condition of entry” sign is located within the store and is viewable only after you have entered. A condition that is enforced on your without your consent I guess?

All customers enter the premises on a licence, on which the retailer can impose conditions. It is the same as visiting a private home with a ‘condition of entry’ of no shoes on the carpet.

A person searching is not allowed to touch your belongings but may ask you to move things so they can see. You can always refuse a bag search. If you do, the retailer has the right to ask you to leave the store and not return. If the retailer is certain that a person is concealing shoplifted items they may request to search bags or parcels; however, if you are forcibly searched or detained but have not committed an offence you can make a complaint to the police.

NSW Fair Trading has some more information here http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Consumers/Buying_goods/Bag_check_guidelines.html#Bag_check_–_guidelines_for_checking_of_bags_and_parcels_in_stores

The Retail Association have these guidelines:
http://www.retail.org.au/index.php?module=uploads&func=download&fileId=3708

Reply

Check out http://www.retail.org.au/index.php?module=uploads&func=download&fileId=3708

Some years ago (probably 10), I was told categorically by a lawyer friend that store staff have no right to inspect bags unless they have belief (i.e. actual evidence) that you’ve knicked stuff. Don’t know if that has changed in the meantime, but I’ve heard nought so I doubt it.

I find it intrusive. When they ask to look in my bag/s, I give them a friendly ‘no’ and continue walking.

Wokie said :

Unless informed otherwise I believe they’re allowed to look if bag is bigger than an A4 sized piece of paper but not touch the contents.

Unless it differs here from elsewhere, I believe it’s the other way around: they have no right to search you or your bag unless they inform you, in advance, that it’s a condition of your entry to the premises. This is why you see signs at the entrance of stores that are (attempting) to do the right thing.

I think that you will find that it is not a legal requirement, just a store policy so you can refuse and they can call the police. However, if you havent stolen anything and they had no reasonable reason to suspect that you did, there could be issues with false or wrongful imprisonment. When a store says that they “Reserve the right” to search bags you can be sure that this is quite wrong.

If you’re unhappy about the Security Guard’s conduct I’d make a formal complaint to Supabarn or centre management (depending on who employs the secutiry team).

Unless informed otherwise I believe they’re allowed to look if bag is bigger than an A4 sized piece of paper but not touch the contents.