15 May 2012

The Folk Festival wants you to pay more still to save the Majestic

15 May 2012 | johnboy

The Folk Festival is a strange beast for a few reasons:

— It charges like a wounded bull. Seriously it hoovers money out of my wallet harder than any casino I’ve visited.

— It pays the most cursory to negligible amounts in advertising while constantly pushing for free PR (a sore point to those of us in the media).

— It pays artists very little to nothing.

— It gets tens of thousands of people through the gates to this profit making dream model.

— And yet we’re constantly told it needs government handouts to make sure it keeps going.

Let us turn our thoughts now to The Majestic.

— The Fringe was free to attend, the drinks were reasonably priced and it was pretty good entertainment.

— But it was run by the colourful local figure of Jorian Gardner (now doing talkback radio for 2CA)

— As far as I can tell Jorian, as is his way, annoyed the then Multicultural Affairs Minister John Hargreaves (there was huffing about burlesque being inappropriate but reasons can always be manufactured by motivated bureaucrats).

— So the Fringe’s funding was given to the Folk Festival to run a fringey event inside the Folk Festival.

— Now the punters had to pay hundreds of dollars or donate tens of hours to see the work of their public funding.

— This did mean local talent finally got a run, something the Folk Festival had disgustingly neglected over the years.

— This became known as “The Majestic” and it was wildly popular despite being in a tent shunted away from the main festival.

— Now the Government funding for The Majestic has come to an end.

Does the Folk Festival continue with an event that’s wildly popular with the punters?

Of course not! It’s popular! They can soak the rubes for more dollars.

And so we have the below begging letter asking you to cough up in advance so you can then pay a second fortune to get in and see something that used to, at bugger all public cost, be provided completely free in the middle of town.

I often wonder if I’m too cynical, and then I realise I’m nowhere near cynical enough.

I’ve got $100 I’ll pay to support The Majestic if it’s staged somewhere everyone can attend for free.

We couldn’t make this stuff up if we tried.

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Overheard4:23 pm 18 May 12

I’ve deliberately stayed out of this one as I’ve had my own beefs and chicken vindaloos with the Nash (not Nasho as someone called it — that’s national service which was phased out before I was around) and I’ll leave them between them and me — apart from one pithy comment elsewhere here today.

I am absolutely not qualified to comment on the financial stuff — TheObserver has more of the runs on the board and having an understanding of those machinations and I would counsel anyone to check their facts VERY carefully by questioning her (or him) on that score.

But (and I’m NOT talking about the OP/moderator here), the amount of blatantly wrong statements and glaring misinformation about what the folk festival* is could fill volumes. All this crap about wholemeal bread/mung bean etc. is quite palpably written by people who have never crossed the lintel at EPIC. There may have been a cornucopia of substances in years gone by but it’s very well hidden away now if it’s there.

Why sound off and display your abject ignorance if you’ve never been there? “You weren’t there, man. You don’t know! You don’t know what it was like!!

Piss or get off the pot, but above all, don’t unzip if you’ve got nothing to…….. yeah, this analogy needs to be taken out and shot. But essentially, if you’ve only got one leg to stand on, if you try to kick someone up the date you’re going to fall on a) arse, or b) face.

Ta da! Got it back.

(* I’ve never warmed to the habit of calling a festival the ‘folkie’ or ‘folky’. A ‘folkie’ is a person in my book.)

That’s my two cents’ worth and I’ll not spend a penny more.

TheObserver2:28 pm 18 May 12

Yawn factor has set in Ben_Dover. You clearly don’t get the Folk Festival, how it works, its pressures and all the rest of it. Hope life stays nice in your comfort zone.

Hey – given though that you are willing to do the research – why dont you independently research every single one of the assertions in the original post. See how many more inaccuracies you can find.

Extra points for conflations – like the appeal is a “Letter of Demand”. FFS Riot Act – you are not Andrew Bolt’s blog, but by gee you are making his look good…..

Ben_Dover1:08 pm 18 May 12

TheObserver said :

Ben_Dover. No you haven’t – not yet. Go and check the facts on the $225k for a start and then correct the record. BTW a link back to a previous Riot Act thread does not constitute research.

I did JB posted in error.

TheObserver said :

Cause and effect – yes – but I can tell you straight, the ACT Govt does not appear to me to be slightly interested in supporting a viable and vibrant event on the ACT calendar but is more than happy, per ‘Enlighten’ to pee millions down the drain. Fact is those other events always have had the massive cash boosts. The Folky is largely self reliant. Surely self reliance or the best attempt at it ought receive more consideration for support.

Irrelevant, the organisers of the Folk festival could and should try to find funding through sponsorship, in order to draw name acts in. It should not be a local govt matter or local govt sposorship.

TheObserver said :

And given that you choose to throw around assertions in the manner of someone shooting from the hip first and asking questions later – then ‘cowboy blogger’ seems fair comment to me. However, moving beyond that, go and get each individual negative assertion you’ve made, independantly fact check it and come back to us.

Your interpretation of my posting style is irrelevant and a distraction from the debate.

TheObserver said :

Likley the folky would love more corporate sponsorship – but with Canberrans such as yourself and the Riot Act owners so keen to diss the festival with nonesense, you are probably not doing the cause much good.

Claptrap, my views and those of the Riotct staff are irrelevant to sponsorship, and do not and will not affect that in any way..

Codders11111:18 am 18 May 12

Sandman said :

Some figures quoted so far.

50,000 attendees.
Minimum $100 for Saturday ticket only ( lots of people staying for the whole weekend)
Total received from customers (assuming tickets as well as festival merchandise?). $2.3 million

I know I don’t have the brilliant mind of Dr Sheldon Cooper but that doesn’t add up.

There’s nothing too suspicious about this, you just need to think about it. There are 2000 volunteers and 1000 musicians at the festival. Say they all go for all 5 days – that’s 15,000 ‘visitors’ who didn’t pay anything for their tickets. I think stallholders also get in for free, and count as ‘visitors’ but am not sure about that.

Additionally a decent proportion of the people who attend the folk festival buy multi-day tickets and end up paying significantly less than $100 per visit.

TheObserver10:22 am 18 May 12

Ben_Dover. No you haven’t – not yet. Go and check the facts on the $225k for a start and then correct the record. BTW a link back to a previous Riot Act thread does not constitute research.

Cause and effect – yes – but I can tell you straight, the ACT Govt does not appear to me to be slightly interested in supporting a viable and vibrant event on the ACT calendar but is more than happy, per ‘Enlighten’ to pee millions down the drain. Fact is those other events always have had the massive cash boosts. The Folky is largely self reliant. Surely self reliance or the best attempt at it ought receive more consideration for support.

And given that you choose to throw around assertions in the manner of someone shooting from the hip first and asking questions later – then ‘cowboy blogger’ seems fair comment to me. However, moving beyond that, go and get each individual negative assertion you’ve made, independantly fact check it and come back to us.

Likley the folky would love more corporate sponsorship – but with Canberrans such as yourself and the Riot Act owners so keen to diss the festival with nonesense, you are probably not doing the cause much good.

Portaloos – yes, the folky has had them – but most recently as part of the mobile shower and toilet facilities – they are generally on the back of huuuugggge trucks up near the Mallee for one.

Androyd9:18 pm 17 May 12

I remember mates in Melbourne sending out a flyer to their mailing list saying hey, we need money to record our CD, so please send us $15 now, then once we’ve recorded it we’ll send it to you. It got them enough of a critical mass to go in and record, not sure if it covered full costs but it gave them the kickalong they needed. (And the CD and launch was pretty good too.) So maybe that’s a better approach for the Majestic’s fundraiser? Donors responding to the flyer above could be effectively buying their ticket in advance for next year’s show, and even get some preferential seating rather than lining up for hours. They might not cover all Majestic costs in advance but would show the NFF organisers that there’s a good core of audience and a signal of a likely bigger rollup on the day so it’s worth taking the punt. Seems a more likely way of attracting support, and avoids some of the double or triple dip that inspired JB’s initial musings. Worth a thought?

LSWCHP6:31 pm 17 May 12

Truthiness said :

I used to run an underground railroad into the festival, I’ve snuck thousands of kids in over the years. many of whom are your target audience. as good as the folky is, most young people don’t have hundreds of dollars to fork out to primarily see your show and smoke drugs and hook up with each other.

Don’t you think there’s something a little ironic in admitting to ripping massive amounts of money off a gig like the festival while calling yourself Truthiness?

I’ve simply done the right thing by paying the cash to get my kids into the festival over the years. It’s been a lot of money, but they love it and I’ve never regretted a single cent of it.

LSWCHP6:23 pm 17 May 12

Hadley said :

HenryBG said :

LSWCHP said :

And organising a function that involves the safety and security and health and happiness of hundreds of performers and tens of thousands of punters involves much more than just “filling in forms”.

Lol! Guess who hasn’t seen the state of the Portaloos from about 3pm on Day2 onwards.

I don’t know. There are no portaloos at the NFF.

Thanks Hadley, you beat me to it. I’ve been going for 10 years and I don’t ever recall seeing portaloos. It could be that I’m having a senior moment, or it could be that Henry has no idea what he’s on about.

Ben_Dover6:05 pm 17 May 12

TheObserver said :

Hey – Ben_Dover. Can you find out a couple of things:

On what basis is it suggested that the folkie received $225k? Following Johnboy’s link I noted that the $225k was the total arts funding which went to a bunch of things, not just the folkie. Care to check that out and correct the record.

I certainly will, thank you for the heads up on that.

TheObserver said :

Also, with the other events that you are noting, do you have any facts or figures regarding the level of corporate or other sponsorship that such events receive that enable them to pay for the big name acts – and perhaps compare to the sponsorship etc that the Folkie actually receives?

But isn’t that cause and effect? If the folkie got sponsorship for big names woudln’t it be in a betetr position? Who is responsible for sponsorship/act booking? What is stopping them doing just that?

TheObserver said :

Or would that involve doing other than being just another cowboy blogger and doing a bit of yakka to support that which appears to this observer, being long on assertion and short on fact.

I am no a cowboy, and although I participate here, I woudl not cal it blogging. I have backed up my points with facts, you however have not.

TheObserver5:10 pm 17 May 12

Hey – Ben_Dover. Can you find out a couple of things: On what basis is it suggested that the folkie received $225k? Following Johnboy’s link I noted that the $225k was the total arts funding which went to a bunch of things, not just the folkie. Care to check that out and correct the record.

Also, with the other events that you are noting, do you have any facts or figures regarding the level of corporate or other sponsorship that such events receive that enable them to pay for the big name acts – and perhaps compare to the sponsorship etc that the Folkie actually receives?

Or would that involve doing other than being just another cowboy blogger and doing a bit of yakka to support that which appears to this observer, being long on assertion and short on fact.

Gungahlin Al9:54 pm 16 May 12

Sigh…

Personally I think the Nasho is one of Canberra’s (and Gungahlin’s!) best kept secrets.

I’ve been for the last 3 years. Only one day this year but the full 4.5 day stint the previous years. You would be VERY hard pressed to find such value. $100++ for a 90 minute concert versus $245 for 4.5 whole days packed as solid as you can take? Zero comparison.

I love that I don’t know many of the acts – it is part of the adventure that is the Nasho just dropping in on venues and sampling what’s on offer. I’ve fallen in love with acts I’d never heard of before. The “folk” bit of folk music means “people” – ordinary people doing the music of their homes. Anyone who says “I don’t like folk music” has obviously never experienced it, because there is no one “folk music”. The main thing that is common is acoustic instruments. That’s about the end of it.

Who’s the idiot comparing the Canberra folk festival acts with a major British rock festival FFS? It’s a folk festival. In Australia. It’s like saying the World drag racing championships at Summernats are not good enough – just because they’re cars doesn’t mean they are the same thing. Just because they’re musicians doesn’t mean they are the same thing.

Regarding the Majestic, sorry Hadley but I’ve spent very little time in there. It’s out of the way, and just to small to fit many people in. Things I have tried to see have often been full. I had never gotten around to going to Fringe, so have no opinion on that.

But to blame the Nasho for the Fringe festival situation is silly. Blame should go where it belongs – John flippin Hargreaves. So he pisses off in October and everyone can pursue getting it back as a free-standing festival again right? Maybe (come to think of it) the funding ask is a way of saying they’d rather get rid of it? Dunno, but I think the folk festival has bigger problems than Fringe. This year was clearly a struggle for them. Reduced venues and acts, far less blackboard opportunities (a big hit for new acts trying out their skills), and somehow just lacking some of the vibrancy of the previous years. I think the talk of big profits is daft and ill-informed. And I think the return to the Canberra community goes way beyond straight economic numbers of hotel bookings. The Canberra music and dance community itself owes a heck of a lot to the festival.

I really do hope it comes back with a bang next year – with or without the Majestic.

LegalNut10:03 pm 15 May 12

Wow, johnboy, how much more wrong could you be about how the Folk Festival works.

Lets start at the top:

– It relies on vast armies of volunteers working for free (often in highly professional capacities).

Yes it does as does almost every event of this type. Woodford, Port Fairy, Cygnet, Illawara and every other folk festival works this way. They can’t afford not to.

– It charges like a wounded bull. Seriously it hoovers money out of my wallet harder than any casino I’ve visited.

This year, the most expensive ticket was $425 which got 4.5 days of entertainment from 9am to 2am and camping on site. I can think of very few events that offer so much programmed entertainment for such a low price.

– It pays the most cursory to negligible amounts in advertising while constantly pushing for free PR (a sore point to those of us in the media).

I see no problem with this. It is a not-for-profit cultural event and I couldn’t imagine it really having a marketing budget. That said the annual financial reports (http://www.folkfestival.org.au/info/management) show $105 000 in marketing costs in 2010-11.

– It pays artists very little to nothing.

The last annual report shows that performance fees amounted to $471 350 for the 2011 festival. That seems a little more than close to nothing.

– It gets tens of thousands of people through the gates to this profit making dream model.

Those same financial reports show a $224 000 loss in 2010-11 (and the rumour mill suggests possibly more in 2011-12) with operational costs over $1m, staff costs over $600k.

– And yet we’re constantly told it needs government handouts to make sure it keeps going.

With a loss of $224k and grants of just $75k it seems that further government funding would be appropriate. As I understand it, there are about 50 000 who attend the festival each year. This amounts to $1.50 in government and other funding per person. In contrast, the ACT government alone (without taking additional sponsorship into account) spent $8.50 on each attendee to Floriade.

The bottom line is that the National Folk Festival is not the high-profit, exploitative, rip off event that you suggest. Rather it is an event that costs a lot of money to put on, is actually quite well priced (cf the $60 per hour charged for the recent and popular Prince concert in Sydney) and does actually support local artists and the local economy.

johnboy5:24 pm 15 May 12

TheObserver said :

Allow me to deal with the first link – that shows how $225k was divvied up between a bunch of things – the folkie didnt get the lot as you seem to assert.

The funding of the Majestic you actually got right so that would be part of the 1%

Ticket prices – what is the point you are trying to make? Snarky addressed that in any event.

As for insinuation, allow me to bow, grovelling, to you Johnboy – as your post is a mix of insinuation, half truth and push poll dressed up as polemic and really is very long on assertion and woefully short on back up.

But it’s ironic really, a blogsite where the moderator is the troll.

I just wonder if you can source the background material on the fact that the event doesnt pay performers well or at all, and perhaps you could also provide your (factually based) insights on the local acts that have been ignored for years in the utterly damnable way insinuated by you.

You may also wish to reflect on whether your guidelines for posting are of equal applicability as on any measure you might need to moderate yourself- or is this ‘do as I say and not as I do”?

And as for being precious, I have a sh*t eating grin on my dial as I type – because you are back peddling like mad because you got nothin’.

All that and not one word actually addressing a single point made.

I had the conversations with folk festival organisers over many years where they said the local market had no interest in local music. (mistake pointed out by the wild popularity of the event)

I’ve talked to the musicians who play there about what they get paid. But let’s face it while vastly accomplished there’s rarely anyone booked who wouldn’t otherwise be playing at the turner bowlo.

And I’ve had the conversations over many years with the volunteers, so I know a thing or two there.

So I’m confident in my assertions. But I’d be happy to stand corrected should you have any actual information to bring to the discussion.

All we seem to get is abuse.

I was happy enough for the festival to continue on it’s way, albeit with personal reservations.

But this whole deal with the majestic stinks to high heaven (and the ACT Government is as to blame as anyone).

My apologies for sharing my opinion on the subject. But I don’t intend to stop because of you.

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