Greens say racing should be turfed from Thoroughbred Park to build housing

Bush Capital? Please, give it a rest.

And where do you expect people who work in Canberra to live? Cooma? The city is already spread out too far. That spread can’t go on forever. What happens at a million people? How far would the city have spread then? Hardly livable. Public transport doesn’t work as well for spread out cities; the roads would be so crowded they would be car parks, People on the edge would travel for hours to get to work. This might be your ideal city, but it isn’t mine.

100%

Who wants a drag strip

When you say “tax revenue from racing” do you refer to the wagering tax? Most of that relates to betting on competitions or events outside Canberra rather than on local horse racing.

Surely the justification for subsidy is much like that for Summernats or other sporting codes, an investment in total economic activity and employment as well as a bit of circus for some.

“Most of that relates to betting on competitions or events outside Canberra rather than on local horse racing.”

Which is an error because the entire Australian industry operates together to provide the product and drives the revenue. Whilst there is definitely rationalisation that could occur within the industry itself (ie. JS9’s suggestion of joining Canberra and Queanbeyan courses), the idea put forward by some that removing local connections wouldn’t hurt taxation revenue is wrong. The Australian racing industry doesn’t abide by state boundaries and locals won’t continue to wager or be involved to the same levels once local industry connections and social links are lost.

As to your other point, yes similar justification exists as for funding other recreational pursuits. And you won’t ever hear the Greens calling for the removal of subsidisation in areas like the arts.

So you confirm the reality of what I said before diverging to disagree with something nobody said, then agree with what I said before diverging to attack somebody else for not saying something else that nobody said.

If The Chaser or Betoota Advocate wanted to satirize you, they could employ you to write the script.

Charmaine,
no I don’t agree with your point, unless you are simply trying to raise a meaningless fact that doesn’t consider wider industry effects, economic impacts and the drivers of the revenue created by racing.

But what would be the point of that except to be used as a red herring?

Although yes, I apologise that I have jumped ahead to points not raised by you. Mainly because this issue has been raised and discussed repeatedly here, usually in respect to the ICRC report that was conducted assessing the exact issue(s) you raise.

You are correct …its a green question all around Australia…but half of these exponents have rental properties and are increasing rents

Unless trends have rapidly changed in the last handful of years (not having seen data for a fair while), no Canberra racing product would probably not really change ACT taxation receipts much at all. Whether it would see a drop off in wagering behaviour is another question – but when I last saw the data, ACT revenue from betting on Canberra racing product was well below <10% of total revenue.

There would be some effect – but I'm far from convinced it would be substantial. Yes it does operate as a national industry in some ways, but I doubt there are too many out there, living in Canberra, that only have a punt because there is a Canberra Racing Club, or a Canberra Harness Racing Club in operation.

Some sure – but significant in the grand scheme? Not so sure. Especially when there would be a substitution effect (i.e. something else would replace Canberra racing on the calendar). In general, most punt on a wide variety of races from a wide variety of locations.

The direct economic impacts from lost jobs etc would likely be far more significant than the impact on taxation revenue imho.

JS9,
There are both substitution and complementary effects of gambling on racing between codes and jurisdictions.

Of course if you only shut down the Canberra racecourse, there would be little immediate impact on wagering revenue.

But it’s myopic to not recognise the wider impacts of what would basically be an outsourcing of costs to other jurisdictions. What’s to stop other jurisdictions doing exactly the same thing or charging higher fees back to the ACT Government in the long run? The claimed “subsidy” isn’t what people like the Greens say it is in reality.

On the product side, all jurisdictions are inherently linked with smaller areas feeding into the bigger metropolitan markets. The service industries involved in racing get economies of scale from this. Removing smaller markets impacts the costs, delivery and quality of the racing product overall. As I’ve said, and you’ve raised above, rationalisation in the industry of venues and product could definitely occur to find an optimal level, but that’s not even a consideration here.

On the customer and revenue side, people don’t just decide one day to gamble on racing, they do so because of a connection to the industry and the social and community aspects over years and decades. Remove those connections and over time, the wagering revenue dies as new customers aren’t exposed to the local industry.

Now of course, that revenue may be substituted by other gambling revenue such as sports, casinos, lotteries, pokies etc but unlikely to be to the same level and often has other issues around taxation.

And as you also have raised, that means a significant loss of jobs from the service industries that support the various racing codes that are much more intensive than other gambling products.

It’s a joke isn’t it, especially given the amount of OUR money he wasted on the HR program.

“Once all the concrete towers are built, what are people going to do?”

The ones trapped in elevators when the power fails will die.

Wow that turned into a rant… perhaps stay on point?

Unfortunately we’re going to have to build upwards. Since 2006 I’ve noticed any spare bit of land is being used for development. The local government wants people to move and work in the ACT but it’s too small and we’re running out of room.

Because there isn’t enough land to build on really. The ACT is too small and we need to keep our green space for the sake of the environment. Also, speaking from experience…we need space for the sake of space. It’s not good to ‘fill up every vacant nook and cranny’.

“sporting” is a long bow to draw. A sizable parcel of land on the edge of the city – turn it into new housing centred around green space and an oval – there’s your sporting complex

On the contrary, there is an abundance of land. Everywhere you look in this city you will see bland tracts of unremarkable grasslands, shut off from any opportunity for development by bizarre notions of conservation, in the most inefficient use of land of any jurisdiction on the planet.

You can bet whoever moves there will then complain about Summernats.

The existing grass paddocks there can handle the natural water flow but take that away and replace it with bitumen and concrete and we will end up with another Lismore.

Set the hyperbole level to 300 today have you CR. Didn’t know there was a massive Wilsons River equivalent stream in that part of town.

No doubt stormwater management is important, but come on – a bit of sense please.

Fair comment. In fact, I meant Woden where the flash flood swept a number of people to their deaths about 40 years ago. I was focused on another thread which was about Lismore.

Thank you for your good manners. Some of the other “Let’s pile-on CR team” should take note.

And the Greyhound track has been sitting empty for how long? Being in between the Monaro Hwy and Jerrabomberra Ave, it could be redeveloped into a fantastic sporting precinct.
Indoor and outdoor basketball and/or netball courts. A 12/15000 seat box football (rugby union/league and soccer) stadium.
Several options.

Racing is *part* of the overall EPIC site, and hence before you remove it and put houses there you need to offer replacement options to all stakeholders in the facility which has served the Canberra community for over 50 years. Including the royal agricultural society who I believe have controlling interest in it….