The RSL and the Hellenic Club

I have not been to the RSL in a decade or so – the old Saturday nights dollar drinks had the joint packed in the early to mid 90’s… Oh the joy of getting written off at the Rissole for $10, then staggering out of there before the line to the Bin became too long.

The Big Clubs taking over the little clubs means the smaller venues survive. Without the big clubs taking over, would there be an independant bowling club left in Canberra? I doubt it…

Can’t say I was ever a member before, and probably won’t be once my kids are bigger, but at this time in my life at least the big clubs provide a place I can take the family for dinner that doesn’t have plastic furniture that’s bolted to the floor! They’re not really interested in keeping me anyway, I never play the money sinks oops pokies…

Ah pokies, one of the nice things about pubs in WA – there are no pokies.

I don’t really care if clubs buy out other clubs. All it’s doing is changing ownership from one entity to another. BTW as for not getting invited to the AGM, have you ever actually made enquiries on how to attend? As far as I know anyone with an interest in an entity may attend it’s AGM, the entity however does not need to send out personalised invites.

Start the thread, Thumper! You know it makes sense.

*chuckle*

If you think their success has more to do with good management, rather than a gambling monopoly, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

johnboy said :

Jakez, I had no idea you were such a fan of monopolies used to provide selective commercial advantage.

I have a problem with Government providing selective advantage to businesses, but I don’t have a problem with big clubs. Your crusade to bring down the ‘monoliths’ is nothing but a gigantic masturbation party.

johnboy said :

War stories elsewhere gentlemen.

Sorry JB, thought it was on topic noting the RSL discussion and hoping they keep the traditions of the RSL alive.

I just hope they do the place up a bit or even change it’s location. Not sure how this will be affected with teh RSL Canberra Offices being located there though. I’d be interested to know if maintaining the office bearers actual offices is part of the deal.

madocci said :

Does anyone else find it bizarre that a greek club has an italian restaurant?

The Croatia Club in Deakin had a Chinese restaraunt until recently and so did the Italian Club.

I’m going to miss the ol’ RSL club.

blingblingbears said :

Perhaps JB you just havent maintained your current address on your club memberships?

They don’t seem to have any trouble sending me renewals.

Ethical vs community?

Skidbladnir said :

You’re calling for business operations to go down the ethical & accountable route, but with what gain to the operation?

Well, I’m calling for “Community clubs” to be run for the community, or at least “a” community (eg war veterans); thus they would be ethical rather than needing to be primarily for profit. Or, for them to fess up, let go of the “community club” concessions, and compete on a level field with ordinary businesses that run bars etc.

#29 +1. I’m a member of at least 15 clubs and associations, and universally get invites to every AGM plus other meetings. I probably get more information than needed as I have a common medical affliction called ‘AGMitis’, and also a more severe case of ‘Committeeitis’ (except for the Canberra Musicians’ Club).

I COULD be wrong (and am not discounting that possibility for a second), but I thought it was a legal obligation to invite all financial members to AGMs.

Sands said :

I’m a member of the RSL (apparently). Got a letter in the mail asking me to vote to accept the Hellenic Club’s offer. Ordinarily I’d throw it away, but I sent it in with a big no thank you! Can’t stand the Hellenic Club.

Funny how it suddenly becomes the member’s club again when the money runs out isn’t it?

“When was the last time you were invited to the Annual General Meeting of a club which you are supposedly a member of? I’m still waiting”

I am a member of both these clubs and letters and voting cards for and against the takeover were sent to both myself and other members I know.

I am a member of a couple of other clubs and always get AGM invites, annual reports, newsletters, etc…

Perhaps JB you just havent maintained your current address on your club memberships?

“luring the lowest common denominator” – That’s a bit harsh JB!

I’m a member of the RSL (apparently). Got a letter in the mail asking me to vote to accept the Hellenic Club’s offer. Ordinarily I’d throw it away, but I sent it in with a big no thank you! Can’t stand the Hellenic Club.

War stories elsewhere gentlemen.

Cheers Peterh and Thumper. You’ve confirmed my suspicions about the local RSL Club. I used to work right next door to it many years ago and went their for lunch and after work drinks a lot. Back then, when the last post came on the place was silent. I stopped going when I notice a few folk starting to turn up and ensconce themeselves in the place after their getting their methodone. Their talking and laughing through the last post ruined the place for me.

I served in the Navy as a Gunner (back when such an animal existed) and as an intellegence operator in the Army. But the 80’s and early 90’s were a period of low activity and limited budget so no active service. The ADM is nice to have for the kids but it sits in the draw and will stay there until I shuffle off.

The day for me is one of personal reflection though as I had a brother who died in the British Army on exercises in 1983. I can’t stand being around people that think the day is just an excuse to get pissed.

Thumper: what did your dad fly?

madocci said :

Does anyone else find it bizarre that a greek club has an italian restaurant?

I used to love that greek restaurant with its own ‘unique’ greek style of service.

The Italian restaurant at Helenic is excellent but I was always disappointed with the Greek food upstairs (and the downstairs bistro is lame). I’m suspicious of any meal where I can only finish half the plate.

I have not been to the Helenic in a while but I heard they now have a Chinese restaurant in place of the Greek one. How bizarre is that?!

Does anyone else find it bizarre that a greek club has an italian restaurant?

I used to love that greek restaurant with its own ‘unique’ greek style of service.

Berraboy68,

yeah, I usually march and then head off with a ex digger mate of mine to play two up and tell warries. And catch up with my old man who flew in SE Asia all through the 60s and early 70s.

And the disregard of the last post really p*sses me off…

as i only was in to complete basic, and never saw active duty, I don’t march.
I was a blue grunt (ADG), but the call for the IT industry was too strong.

I have a quiet reflection for one Ralph Scott, a canadian, who used to be flag bearer at the march. Sadly he is no longer with us, but I remember and honour him and all the others who have left us, every anzac day.

my kids are being taught to stay quiet during the last post. soon, i can take them to the dawn service, but only after they are old enough and understand what the day means.

The RSL club in the city is now rubbish and seems to have bugger all to do with returned soldiers and more to do with making money from the pokies.

Years ago it was a pleasant, clean club, now it just fills up with dregs.

I don’t even go there on ANZAC day because it’s simply filled with hangers-on sucking cheap beer and playing two up and generally not observing what the day is really about.

having said that, it will be a sad day when the nations capital doesn’t have an RSL or Soldiers club.

Thumper, they used to play the last post to mark fallen comrades during the day. I saw some people that went there recently that didn’t even bother to shut up whilst it was played.

it made my blood boil that these puppies (new yuppies) didn’t even care about the sacrifices made by others so that they could sit there, sniggering.

a couple of years ago, they would have been asked to leave. By the diggers delegation. forcefully.

As an ex-serviceman I’ll take an optimistic view. The Greek community have always been great supporters of ANZAC day and I hope they are buying the club in an effort to support the ex-service community.

Thumper – I agree on the sad reflection that is now ANZAC day in Canberra. I watch the marches and tehn spend the day with my father in law who saw active service in Vietnam. Real soldiers, real stories… not drunks arguing over the toss of a coin.

I go to my local club for a drink (when i DO drink) & the burns club is an easy stagger home. if it was taken over by another club, i would hope that it had the same look and feel that it does now.

if it doesn’t, I would move on to another club. I can vote with my feet. Pokies don’t interest me, but the snooker tables, since the end of Pendo’s, do.

johnboy said :

… paid for out of “community contributions” from the damn poker machines, money that’s supposed to go to community groups but they instead spend on themselves.

Tightening up the definition of “community contributions” would start to solve the problem, as well as having the effect of seeing some actual community contributions from clubs.

This, coupled with a greater restriction on the amount of poker machines that any club can have, would restrict the (artificial) success of clubs – without strangling them or making them unviable, potentially opening up some ground for smaller operators – as well as seeing a lot more money flow back into the community.

Jakez, I had no idea you were such a fan of monopolies used to provide selective commercial advantage.

I think clubs could be done a lot better. They’re pretty tacky and boring in many ways.

Prehaps a scheme whereby the government increases the tax the charge the clubs on pokie revenue, and distributes that extra money to any licensed venue that doesn’t have pokies?

I dunno…my local club was a complete dive. It’s since been taken over by a larger club, refurbished & is now actually a decent place to go. The focus on pokies has diminished. They are still there, they’re just not the main thing about the club anymore. They are hidden away from the (far greater) family friendly sitting & eating areas. The drinks are cheaps, the foods great. It’s now serving this member of the community a lot better than it ever did before.

johnboy said :

I’d far prefer to see five small bars serving a variety of customers than one mega bar luring the lowest common denominator with blinking lights.

The big clubs no longer serve their purpose of providing a meeting place for any particular community group and as such should be wound up IMHO.

Yeah, or you could piss off and leave the happy patrons to their patronising.

…wait

That damn Hellenic Club. Give it a few more years and it will definitely be just like Umbrella Corp out of Resident Evil.

Pokie players and steak eaters unite! You have nothing to lose but your tuesday night bingo discount!

Club size is easy to limit, cap the number of poker machines each club can own.

Without the pokies they’re sub-standard bars. Remember all those plasma tvs and neo-fascist uniforms are paid for out of “community contributions” from the damn poker machines, money that’s supposed to go to community groups but they instead spend on themselves.

I’d far prefer to see five small bars serving a variety of customers than one mega bar luring the lowest common denominator with blinking lights.

The big clubs no longer serve their purpose of providing a meeting place for any particular community group and as such should be wound up IMHO.

Fine, ‘corporations’ withdrawn.
You’re calling for business operations to go down the ethical & accountable route, but with what gain to the operation?

Oh, and a mandatory remuneration report, to be voted on at the AGM.

Remember a few years back the Helenic management was in The Crimes crying about how the smoking ban was going to destroy their business and they would have to lay off huge numbers of staff????

Cue ahead two years later and nothing has changed. Helenic has so much money they have to find new and more obscene ways of unloading it.

There’s not much wrong with big clubs taking over small ones, if the alternative is them closing. But there’s a lot wrong with them getting all kinds of concessional treatment from government. And even more wrong with them making money out of people with a gambling problem. I don’t think these things are much affected by size.

I’m not sure how you’d implement workable rules to limit their size – number of members clearly won’t work, asset or cash base is a problem because assets tend to appreciate over time.

What would seem to be better is forcing them to adopt better corporate governance, since that’s the root problem you identify. Mandatory notification of GMs to members, eliminating the “undirected proxy vote” rort, equal space to board challengers in board election materials.

Corporations in the ACT don’t get to operate poker machines.

In economic times like these, when discretionary spending on pokies (they’re not a gambling machine, they’re “Gaming Entertainment With A Return) going to be down except in the case of the hardcore addicts, the club’s ability to execute mergers, acquisition, and effect economies of scope & scale amongst the Biggers is how they’ll survive and keep a tidy profit.
Expect the life to be quickly strangled out of smaller players the moment they show any sign of weakness.

You’re calling for corporations to exhibit ethical behaviour, but with what motive or gain for the entity?

I worked at a club that was gobbled up by a much larger one – and while it wasn’t the best of times – it was certainly better than having the place close forever.

The main reason that most of the smaller ones go under is their debt to banks. Most trade “ok” but when it comes to servicing debt often they struggle. Ours was “bought” for the cost of the debt – which at the time was about $600k. I do know it was the happiest day of the managers life when he was able to walk in and present a cheque for that amount to the bank – and then proceed to close all accounts there.

We quickly realised the reson we would never be able to compete with the big boys – input costs. To give you an example – we bought lightbulbs for approx $1.10 each. When we had the purchasing power of the bigger club – they suddenly dropped in price to 70c. And this was seen across the board – in all purchases from beer, to lease costs on pokies to cleaning contracts.

I actually support the bigger clubs taking over the smaller ones. It is not as if they are buying them up and then shutting them down. And in most (if not all) cases without that lifeline the place would have closed.

JB, why would you limit the club’s size? the Hellenic club, Vikings and the Southern Cross clubs are large entities in town, but i would prefer that there was a club for me to go to in moore street, rather than a vacant site. If the RSL couldn’t run at a profit, and sold itself to the hellenic club, it is a sad loss, but hopefully the hellenic club will take the original members into consideration.

The fact that these clubs purchase failing entities prior to them closing, means that they are supporting the community. they keep our watering holes open. They do this because they are a club, not a charity. I receive my annual report from 2 of the club chains I belong to, i usually just circular the report, it isn’t of interest to me.

They are being run as a business. they are a business.

Imagine, if you will, if ABN was a club, and started buying other small venues around town, would you be against their expansion plans?

It is good to see these clubs expanding during the downturn, rather than sacking workers.