Amber Jane Westin - In profile

Or, the covering in honey and staking over a Bull Dykes nest?

If found guilty, tie her up in Civic for a day and let the general public decide what punishment she should recieve.

A size ten steelcapped Redback up the ‘birth canal’ should make her think long and hard about being an arsehole!

As time drags on so does the degree to which Miss Westin appears to have total disregard to societies laws, punishments and ones own obligations.

If found guilty, I hope she receives the maximum penalties available. If not found guilty then I hope she learns some valuable lessons – though I doubt it.

I see in todays CT that Miss Westin breached her bail conditions by not reporting to Police on time. Bail was opposed yet the Magistrate still gave her another chance.

It also states that she lied to Police and Police suspect she left her child at home, alone.

Poor thing it must be really hard to attend a Police station once a day!

As far as I remember there was a campaign a coupla years ago to report anyone throwing butts out the window to the City Ranger. They sent out a little leaflet with the number to call. I’d expect without proof, you’d only receive a warning of some sort…But if you were to be reported several times, then a fine could be issued.

Perhaps what’s called for is not necessarily harsher sentencing but earlier sentencing. I live next door to a copper who continually brings the same shitbags in, and continually has magistrates let them off with warnings, cautions, good behaviour bonds, etc. My thought is that if you did something serious enough to warrant being arrested, charged and taken to court that perhaps there should be some sort of penalty. Where I went to highschool it was basically common knowledge that if the coppers caught you the idea was to cry and blame peer pressure.

In our efforts to gain more freedom, we are becoming more like the US – having a more regimented society is not necessarily a problem, it just means people have a narrower sphere of acceptable behaviour within which to live.

the article is nothing but emotive pap.

I guess one of the basic tenets of our legal system – the presumption of innocence, works both for and against us.

In the instance of the cigarette butt throwers, smack has outlined above a completely plausible explanation for the incident.

The fact that I saw a hand protruding from the car at the very point of seeing the flying butt is sufficient proof for me. However just for a moment spare a thought for the magistrate. Two people in court – both presumably respectable, law abiding citizens except one is accused of unlawfully discarding “dangerous litter in a high fire risk period”. His word against mine – and no tie breaker for Solomon to determine the truth.

In such circumstances, I would reluctantly accept the judgement based on failure to provide unimpeachable proof.

It’s not the weighing up of evidence and a (perhaps subjective) assessment of the relative credibility of witnesses with which I have issue. My concern is that the system fails us after the legal process has determined guilt.

Ms Westin is entitled to a fair hearing in a legallly convened court. While the reports we read are damning they are not evidence per se.

Firstly, I hope that Ms Westin is not able to avoid a verdict based on the facts because of some pathetic legal loophole (yes, I know the law must be applied without prejudice and is there to protect us all).

Secondly, IF Ms Westin is found guilty, that the punishment will be commensurate with the crime she has committed and not diluted because of some misguided perception of diminished responsibility.

OK, I promise to go back to my corner and stay away from the sermon pulpit for the rest of the day 🙂

“A slap on the wrist for stealing it and a $2000 fine?”

A $2000 here in the ACT. Not likely. I know of a person who went to court over unregistered and uninsured vehicle. The traffic tickets for each offence is about $400 each. The Magistrate gave him $200 for each. Go to court and get your fine cut in half!

“I’d always wondered what the police would do if I reported somebody throwing a lit butt out the window.”

The problem you would face here is the standard of proof. Unless there was more than one of you that saw it happen and you both provided statements, it would be your word against the butt tosser. Even if the two of you provided statements and went to court, this dead shit would come up with an excuse like, “Someone flicked the butt on my windscreen and it blew off whilst I was driving. Its not my fault, I didnt know it was there.” The ACT magistrate would probably believe that and let them off.

I think Ms Westin is rather plain looking: even more so after she lost several teeth in the killing. Just compensation for the assault she has casued upon others and for which she did not turn-up to court for.

From my experience, you’ll need to indicate your willingness to support your allegations in court, should the need arise. Which is where a lot of this stuff falls over…

I’d always wondered what the police would do if I reported somebody throwing a lit butt out the window. I know they’d think it was serious, but I also know they’re stretched to the limit and I’m not sure what they could / would do about it.

What about stealing a car and burning it?
A slap on the wrist for stealing it and a $2000 fine?

ozmreeee, fyi the cigerette butt out the window currently attracts a $2000 fine (classified as dangerous litter in a high fire risk period). feel free to record the licence plate of offenders you note and report them.

car theft stats are available at http://www.carsafe.com.au.

the ACT rate for October 2006 was the highest in Aus:
http://www.carsafe.com.au/documents/No20Sept2006.pdf

The teeth missing were due to the accident

I wonder if her teeth were missing BEFORE the car accident. hehe. typical loser. I am sure her kid is going to grow up to be a winner.
I feel bad saying that, but the reality of the matter is that it is true. Sometimes it seems like luck that decideds which 1 in 100 of these kids will actually succeed in life (or be a non-dero) and the rest will follow on in the dero path.

I’d be interested to know what suburb you live in Wagga_Wagga, because in my suburb, i would only ring the police every two or three times a month to report a dumped stolen car and in the last year or so, i’m constantly ringing for the dumped cars to be picked up.

And i’ll tell you something else Wagga_Wagga.
I don’t know of one business that has opened up out in Gungahlin that hasn’t been robbed, trashed, broken into or held up.
I have spoken to owners out there that have said they would be better off leaving their doors open so they don’t have to keep replacing their locks and doors.
Our school is constantly repairing windows and doors and removing graffiti.
The containers at our local sports ground, full of sports equipment, have been broken into so many times we have had to move them around Canberra, and our canteen had a stolen car driven through it and set on fire.
The worst thing is people are actually becoming desensitized to all this violent crime now and just think it is an everyday occurrence.

Finally, i would like to vote for pi55ed if he ever runs, because i would be the first to vote for him.

OK, while we are on the subject of “Bogan Bashing”, I want to get something off my chest.

I am sick and tired of driving along and seeing a cigarette come flying out of the window of the car in front of me. I’m not having a go at smokers – so let’s not go there, as my beef (hmmm what would the vegan equivalent be?) is with the mindless idiots who, even as the weather warms up and the countryside gets drier, seem to think there’s no ’cause and effect’ responsibility of their actions.

This thread has raised the question of “what’s going wrong?”. It’s the “I don’t give a flying f**k about anyone else, I’ll do what I want” attitude.

Ms Westin doesn’t turn up for court, drives an unregistered vehicle in an erratic manner while unlicensed, and then evades a lawful attempt to pull her over … is that the action of someone who is a responsible member of our society, who respects the rights of others? No.

Changes to the policies and practices of the police are not going to stop the likes of Ms Westin, just as making it a criminal offence to throw a lit cigarette from a car will stop these irresponsible idiots from possibly starting a catastrophic brush fire.

In my gradually acquired, and now confirmed, status of grumpy old man I can see what my folks were talking about when they used to whine about how things were different in the old days. The difference appears to be that each successive generation seems to find new ways of raising the “don’t care, it’s about me” bar.

I guess what we need to remember when we talk about civil liberties and democratic freedom, we are also talking about such ‘niceties’ being made available to all members of society. You don’t have to hold a PhD to work out that if the rules are relaxed (i.e. softer treatment of criminals due to negative sociological/environmental influences) then the bogans, supported by clever lawyers, will take advantage of it.

To some degree it does get down to parental influence. As a westie I definitely could have gone down the criminal path but my parents made sacrifices and worked hard to instil some understanding of my responsibilities to myself, them and society in general. Was I just lucky?

Maybe, but I don’t know. But – I do know that I have to be responsible for my own actions and, where necessary, suffer the consequences of any mistakes I make.

Everyone agrees that Ms Westin deserves to suffer the full force of the law. Perhaps in the application of that law, there needs to be less analysis of why she did it and more emphasis on what she did and the subsequent outcome. Simply, let the punishment fit the crime and then let the social workers et al use an appropriate period of detention (appropriate to the crime not HER circumstances) to help her deal with the why.

Thus endeth the gospel according to a grumpy old man – normal transmission will now resume.

I had a good laugh at the bit in th CT article where they described Ms Westin “Petite, limping, and with facial injuries, including a number of missing teeth…” lol what a total feral boganite.

Boomacat, you raise some very good points. I certainly dont believe society is breaking down, but, I cant but help if I feel crime has seen a marked increase by what I currently see. Remember this is only my personal opinion and I will happily stand (or sit corrected) when the next ABS stats (although I dont trust them) and relevant AFP reports are published.

I agree tougher sentencing isnt going to help either. Proper support mechanisms for children and parents may assist to reduce the number of Amber Westins and her shitbag ilk, unfortunately though they will always be there.

Jazz, you are spot on with your comment about the stats and reporting IMLTHO.

Anyway, having now hijacked this thread enough, I will now shut up on this topic. One thing I do eagerly await is the next court appearance of Miss Westin, if nothing else it should be good for at least a two page spread in the cut and paste periodical (CT).

Anecdotal evidence? This seems to me to be the equivalent of saying if you sail too far off the coast you are certain to fall off the edge of the Earth/run into dragons because it’s a “known fact”.

I will prefer the statistics produced by the ABS over ‘anecdotal evidence’ as you call it, thanks Pi55ed.

Which is not to detract from the pain experienced by victims of crime, I myself have been mugged twice (in Sydney and London) and only a fortnight ago my mate’s place was broken into (in Sydney) and had all sorts of valuable stuff stolen. It’s not a pleasant experience and should not be trivialised.

But any way you look at it, crime is not rampant in the ACT (relative to the rest of Australia) and is certainly not rapidly on the increase, so all this “lock em up and throw away the key moral panic society is breaking down” bullshit is just fabricating a crisis that doesn’t exist.

And as for this, “if only we had tougher sentencing” routine, I am very sceptical about the assertion that introducing harsher sentencing would have any effect on crime rates. Look at the high prison populations in the US for example. But that is a debate for another day.

While everyone is tossing around statistics lets be a little specific here. The crime RATE per 100,000 households is going down. This does not necessarily mean that the number of crimes itself is going down unless compared with the increase in the number of households.
It is also worth noting that only 74.9 of break-ins were reported in 2005 over 76% in 1998. While this may not seem a lot of difference, it could make the apparent fall from 7.7% in 1998 to 5.5% in 2005 much closer than it really is.

ref: ABS publication “Measuring Australia’s progress” Cat: 1370.0

The problem here is that teh statistics fail to address the nature of household crime in the ACT. For example; post 1998 it is much harder to fence stolen items of any value though organisations like cash converters because of additional police scrutiny in those areas. I suspect that the lower reporting rate is reflected by this as crimes may well be smaller in impact, and “not worth the hassle” of reporting to police. A number of RiotACT posters have expressed this sentiment supporting my theroem.

But we digress, I reckon i agree with Pi55ed, Taylor and Boomacat that the problem lies more with appropriate parenting and discipline than police procedures. I’m sure any number of teachers on this site could provide some first hand experience of the behavioural impacts on children .

Seepi

It is possible that ACT may lead Australia in a particular type of crime (out of many others).

I am sure that car theft data would be collected somewhere – but I do not know where.

Until the facts are known, maybe we should hold off judgement.

Maybe ACT government could empower ACT rangers to be available for noise complaints – the intrusion of police may seem heavy handed as a first option.

I believe the ACT is the car theft capital?
I also wonder if the ACT police are triming back what they count as a crime. EG, when we first moved to Canberra we thought it was hilarious (and fantastic) that the Neighbourhood Watch reported crimes like ‘plastic bucket stolen from porch’ and ‘front yard hose removed’. Whereas these days you can’t get the police to respond to minor property crime or noise complaints before midnight.

Pissed – this is just wrong…….

“Anecdotal evidence is certainly suggesting a marked increase in crime in the ACT.”

But journalists bias and sensationalise their anecdotes to sell papers – you cannot use anecdotes.

“Murders, stolen and burnt out vehicles, Household robberys, armed offenders, drunk drivers, deaths on ACT roads etc etc are showing a marked increase!, and are not on the decline.”

The facts are in the ABS publication “Measuring Australia’s progress” Cat: 1370.0 see page 162. Available online

“crime is on the up and in some respects is out of control”

This is just silly and I assume is just copper-talk. If there is professional data please let us know.

“There will always be crime, that is a given, however until the ACT wakes up to itself and realises how fucked up things are really becoming here, nothing is going to change.”

You seem to be a prisoner of your own imagination.

The facts are that crime is going down and the ACT has more crime than some states and less than others.

We do not need to beat the law and order drum and we do not need to divert extra resources to the police. Diverting resources from social welfare threatens to increase crime.

I shouldn’t say ‘ha!’ it actually makes me feel kind of sad. – the whole thing is sad

ha! I thought I knew her. The piccie confirms I do, from my weed smoking, wagging school days.

My comment above has nothing to do with Johnboys original opinion of Amber Westins complete disregard for the law. A fact that is all to common in people of her age group these days.

Forgot to add (although it doesnt prove anything either way). The insurance assesor doing my claim told me he was from Melbourne and he and a number of colleagues had been called to the ACT to assist with a very high number of claims here from residential burglarys.

Boomacat and others:

My comments may seem a tad emotive (having recently had one of these fucked up little druggie shitbags do my house over), but have a good look at the ACT of today compared to Ten years ago.

I’ve never been a big fan of ABS stats as they can be massaged to show what you want them to.

Anecdotal evidence is certainly suggesting a marked increase in crime in the ACT.

I for one cant wait to see the break and enter statistics when they next come out. Murders, stolen and burnt out vehicles, Household robberys, armed offenders, drunk drivers, deaths on ACT roads etc etc are showing a marked increase!, and are not on the decline.

IMLTHO crime is on the up and in some respects is out of control (talk to the coppers about the number of houses in the ACT getting knocked over at the moment), however, I respect yours and others rights to disagree. I just hope you and others dont fall prey to these lowlife shitheads as I recently did. Next time you are out for a drive, have a look at the number of alarm systems fitted to residences.

What has caused the ACT to head down the path it is?

Soft or no sentencing by our magistrates, an education system to frightened to instill traditional values or discipline in children lest they be seen to be “not treating them fairly”.

Lack of respect for any authority figures whether they be Police, parents or any person with standing in their respective communities. When children as young as five publically tell their parents to fuck off, things seem a little worrying.

There will always be crime, that is a given, however until the ACT wakes up to itself and realises how fucked up things are really becoming here, nothing is going to change.

Why are toerags like David Mclaughlin and Amber Westin so prominent these days?

All good. I am a little over sensitive on this one I spose.

The failure of parenting, and the problems created by this affect everyone. Did Amber Westin fail us or did we fail her?

I have a lot of close friends who wear uniform, and I am a big fan of accepting personal responsibility. But the lives of the police and the public at large would be a lot better off if we all did our job raising kids the right way, rather than swearing at them, slapping them around, and neglecting them emotionally.

Sorry Taylor I was being a bit ignorant myself there, I also think the true solution to crime is to (partly at least) address the root cause of the problem (ie children growing up in disadvantaged, vulnerable situations, mental health etc)

boomacat

A few facts are very welcome.

Also although ACT has lower police per head of population, the ACT is very compact and does not have the same need for “stock squads” as in the states and NT.

Crime is not out of control in the ACT.

Is that the infamous baby capsule in the back of the ute in that CT shot? The toddler must get cold back there.

You can use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true, boomacat. 😉

From this one incident, you’ve leaped to “a bigger issue” and an “emerging pattern”. There is no issue, because the pattern is declining crime rates. When people take one incident and extrapolate a crime spree, an increase in the crime rate, or a “crime capital”, and wonder aloud why these things are on the increase, when in fact the complete opposite is the fact, then I’d say that was reactionary ignorance.

ABS stats are tops. And having a lower crime rate than QLD and NT is great too. But try selling that to the guy who lost his wife. Or the parents who lost thier daughter.

And by the way, what I was trying to say had absolutely zilch to do with ‘reactionary’ law and order. It was about finding a way to help these people before things go wrong. A suggestion that would more than likely have nothing to with the police.

Ignorance. I wonder if you would have the same opinion if that had of been you or your family driving through the intersection.

“why is all this stuff on the increase…”,
“The ACT is the crime capital…”,
“…crime spree in Canberra”…

Sorry to rain on your Daily Telegraph style proletarian parade of ignorance people, but a simple and cursory surf of the internet reveals that these assertions simply are not true.

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, as reported in its “Measures of Australia’s Progress 2006”, the crime rate in the ACT has actually been in decline over the last few years (for example, between 1998 and 2005 the rate of personal crime victimisation dropped by around 2%). Further, the ACT is not the jurisdiction with the highest crime rate and has lower rates of crime than places such as the Northern Territory and Queensland.

I’m not trying to detract from the tragedy the occurred last week, but I don’t think reactionary Laura Norder crap is going to prevent incidents like that from happening in the future.

Well, they cant admit that in politics. Nature of the beast.

This is one area, that despite the baggage, the Libs would be better.

All that being said, none of it will make scrap of difference if we cant change the way these kids are being raised.

Talor, Stella, the problem is there is no truth in sentencing in the ACT!

Petty crime (break and enter, vehicle theft etc) is out of control. The Police are doing a great job given the boundries, constraints, brick walls they face.

The bottom line is the shitbag druggie lowlife arsewipes know how soft the court system in the ACT is, and they react accordingly.

The ACT is! the crime capital at the moment!

Police are powerless to stop the crime spree in Canberra due to a multitude of reasons including short staffing, softcock magistrates, excessive oversight from limp wristed lefty bodies, unnecessary scrutiny from Internal Investigations and the Ombudsmans office.

John NoHope and Ordinary Fagan have not got it right. Police numbers are abysmally low!

I would hazard a guess and say neither of them have been robbed lately.

No one in the ACT Government has the intestinal fortitude to admit crime is out of control in the ACT!

that would be ‘generalisation’…

So what is the answer? Early intervention? Stricter enforcement? I dont know myself. I mean, the mental health issues are real, but I beleive they are a by product of a loss of basic humanity at younger ages. It may be a long bow to draw, but I reckon in all the cases of recent carnage, a lot of it could be traced back to the parents. It is a gernalisation no doubt, but all I know is what I see.

And if you have a 30 smoething mother or father screaming expletives at a 5 year old in the shops, then that kid is already well on his way.

He or she is the kid that in another 10 to 15 years we are all talking about in this exact context.

I agree with you taylor, in that there is a bigger issue. Society is on the decline in relation to standards of behaviour.
People act like idiots, but never accept responsibility. We now seem to have more words than ever to describe the “mental health issues” that are always blamed for atrocious behaviour – from ADHD to bipolar and a plethora of others in between.

3 strikes and your in.

Does anybody think that there is a bigger issue here? Between the death of Clea Rose, the death of DJ, and now this, is there an emerging pattern?

I am in absolute agreement with the issue of the girl in question being served the maximum penalty, but I guess what I am saying how are we missing these people before things go pear shaped. I know that a lot of the issue lies with the magistrates letting them off earlier, but that means they have already committed some sort of offence.

I have read (and laughed)at the accounts of ‘bogans’ around the city. But maybe it is not a laughing matter,where are we going wrong, and why is all of this kind of stuff on the increase?

I use that intersection every day. The thought that it could have been me has crossed my mind several times.

A crime such as this really demostrates WHY most people want judges and politicans to be tougher on people who drive unlicenced, ect. It is because they cannot be trusted to follow the rule of law.

This is not just a simple traffic offfence. It shows that there are people out there who get more chances than they deserve, and we as a society are failing to hold them accountable.

Miss Westin will no doubt remember this tragic event for the rest of her life, however, whether she choses to do anything about it who knows. As sure as night follows day she will shake this off in the next couple of weeks as all other cocksure little shitheads like herself generally do when they finally fuck up bigtime.

This little trollop has a complete disregard for the law and the basic principles most decent persons live by.

I fervently hope she receive’s a custodial sentence but as sure as my asshole points towards the ground this will not happen.

The Police no doubt will put in a very good brief, only to have her trot out her sad tale of woe, how remorseful she is, how deeply effected she is by this tragic occurence and the bleeding heart lefty magistrate who has never lost a loved one in tragic circumstances, had their house robbed, had their car stolen, been run into by an uninsured/unregistered driver etc etc etc will say there there you poor thing, have a good behaviour bond or a suspended sentence to add to your metre plus long list of offences.

No magistrate in the ACT will ever get fair dinkum about proper sentencing until they become repeat victims of crimes perpetuated by Miss Westin and her ilk.

lock her away.. I hope this dickhead remembers what she has done for the rest of her life.

LIC I think you just nailed it there, I hope she receives the maximum penalty. She clearly dosn’t abide by the laws, and through her own actions other must suffer. Including now the officers who have clearly done nothing wrong. But most of all the victims husband, who will now most likely end up in a home for the remainder of his life. And all because of some stupid bitch who thought she was too good.

Given she was driving with no license in an unregistered car, and had failed to show up in court on previous charges, Amber Westin obviously thinks the law doesn’t apply to her. I would hope the magistrate remembers this when she goes to trial on the culpable driving charge, and gives her the maximum sentence. (But no doubt, she’ll trot out the hard life sob story and end up with a good behaviour bond.) Wonder why she only got $2k bail – should have made it $20k or something her family might have had real trouble coming up with, so she could spend a few months in Belconnen Remand Centre contemplating her fuckwitted behaviour. I wonder too who gave her access to the car, knowing it was unregistered and she had no license – they should be also charged in connection with her crimes. No doubt she has a history of substance abuse and sounds like she was affected at the time of the crash (it was not an accident, very few car smashes are, they are the foreseeable consequences of one or other drivers stupidity).

It is terribly sad.
But nevertheless I would still like to see more police around, and on the roads.
Should our police perhaps carry cameras, so they can photograph lunatic drivers, in case they speed off?

Everyone involved is a loser in this – except Jack Waterford who simply saw this as another chance to stick it up the cops by twisting the story to somehow get back to his favourite bleat “The cops won’t tell me anything!”
I wonder why?