Bimberi - no holiday camp

Instead of turning left into Sandford Street, turn right towards the Federal Highway.

So where is this place – is it on Flemington road?

I can’t imagine the sad lives of anyone who would actually want to go in there.

I doubt we’ll see a future Gerry Harvey graduating from Bimberi, at best these cretins will be in low paid work and alternating between that and welfare (which is just a crime subsidy anyway).

Under my model, people don’t come out, at least for a very long time. People respond to incentives, and seeing their mate go away for 20 years or so is a pretty good incentive not to commit crime.

Mr_Shab said :

Of course it looks good. It’s brand spanking new.

I fail to see how making prison tougher or sentances longer reduces recidivism or aids rehabilitation. If you make prison tougher of course people won’t want to go there; but you won’t see fewer people going in; just meaner people coming out.

I’m sure that there are some kids who want to go into Bimberi because it looks nice, but that’s a pretty grim indictment of their lives. Making life brutal inside and outside is not going to make them feel like they need to contribute something to society or that there’s an alternative.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Most of these kids are so screwed up that they can’t be reached. You just need to find the least bad answer to an intractable problem. That would be Bimberi, rather than sticking them in tents out in the middle of the desert, or whatever people are suggesting.

Although – I liked SpecialG’s “pay as you go” idea. I wonder if that’s something that ACT corrections have considered?

Mr_Shab, I believe that the facility didn’t have to have a swimming pool, ovals, etc, to be effective. This looks too good, not just from a perspective that it is actually new, but more that the kids in there may never want to leave. For some of the children caught up in the criminal element, this is probably the best house they will ever live in.

We want them to be rehabilitated, not spoilt. They won’t get any favours from this facility if is paints a different picture to reality, and they will be disinclined to receive help from authority if that means leaving the facility and going back to their meager existences.

These kids need rehab and ongoing support. This Gaol, no matter how pretty it is, won’t give them ongoing support. It will appear to be a better place to be than on the streets, but there is no incentive to become model citizens, you need to give them hope for the future, with a job, accommodation, etc. This is just another example of human rights gone awry. The money spent on this facility would have been better spent on more accommodation in canberra, make the accommodation pretty if you want, the dark dingy apartments that they are throwing housing tenants into at the moment won’t breed citizens…

Perhaps I can clarify some aspects of the Bimberi accommodation that don’t come through so well in the pictures.

There is a camera in the corner of every bedroom. clear views towards both the bed and the toilet. So how much would you enjoy every single crap or sexual release being broadcast to the guards?

The showers are those tiny little spray things – presumably so there’s nothing one can hang themselves off. The frosted bedroom windows mean you can see the sky only, likewise the ever present fencing all around the complex prevents you seeing pretty much anything of the surroundings. The guard station is only a glass window from the living and kitchen area, so you will be watched always, everywhere. The surroundings are the cold and windswept areas north of EPIC, as anyone who froze at either the sod-turning or opening ceremonies would attest.

The “safe room” is not padded. It is a completely blank box inside except for the 3 slot windows, which only look out onto the blank wall opposite, and a camera up in the corner.

There is no weights gym, and from what I could see, no provision for one – so none of the ‘turning themselves into musclemen’ issues. As to the courts and grassed area, would you rather they NOT have the opportunity to burn off some energy?

The rest of the centre revolves around the school facilities.

What I’m trying to say, and the pictures perhaps don’t convey, is that the personal areas are quite austere, very basic, and most definitely invasive of privacy and freedom. The communal areas on the other hand are where the inmates would be expected to come together in a socially acceptable manner, and therefore it is quite appropriate that those facilities present a ‘better way’ for the kids, rewarding better bahaviour.

On those who take the “let them rot” stance: perhaps you can consider it from a purely economic perspective? These are kids, and anyone who chooses to acknowledge their own childhood would also recognise that they did some mightly dumb things. But we grew out of it (mostly). So if there is the slightest chance that rehabilitation in the true sense of the word, and a good education, might lead to even a fraction on the kids turning a corner, wouldn’t that be worth it?

The alternative – your let em rot approach – would virtually guarantee that they will be on-and-off prisoners for life, alternating with stints of crime. The sheer economic costs of pursuing, capturing, punishing and keeping them in prisons, plus the costs to the victims of their crimes – would I’d guess far far outweight the costs of providing these facilities.

Of course it looks good. It’s brand spanking new.

I fail to see how making prison tougher or sentances longer reduces recidivism or aids rehabilitation. If you make prison tougher of course people won’t want to go there; but you won’t see fewer people going in; just meaner people coming out.

I’m sure that there are some kids who want to go into Bimberi because it looks nice, but that’s a pretty grim indictment of their lives. Making life brutal inside and outside is not going to make them feel like they need to contribute something to society or that there’s an alternative.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Most of these kids are so screwed up that they can’t be reached. You just need to find the least bad answer to an intractable problem. That would be Bimberi, rather than sticking them in tents out in the middle of the desert, or whatever people are suggesting.

Although – I liked SpecialG’s “pay as you go” idea. I wonder if that’s something that ACT corrections have considered?

This place looks far too cosy for my liking.

Put the scum to hard work while they’re in there. They’ll be enjoying better facilities that what a lot of kids get at good boarding schools.

mutley said :

I’m with AG Canberra.

Geez it’s good to see that the toy government can switch off watering ovals of rate payers and their law abiding kids – yet manages to find water for a bloody aboretum and two ovals at prisons…..

If any oval should be a dust bowl it’s the prison/rehabilitation centre/holiday camp ones.

and will this reduce criminal youth?

not bl**dy likely.

what a stunning waste of money.

I’m with AG Canberra.

Geez it’s good to see that the toy government can switch off watering ovals of rate payers and their law abiding kids – yet manages to find water for a bloody aboretum and two ovals at prisons…..

If any oval should be a dust bowl it’s the prison/rehabilitation centre/holiday camp ones.

I’d like to play on the nice oval thanks – apparently there’s no water for ours in Chisholm – and there hasn’t been for the last 5 years!

Geez it’s good to see that the toy government can switch off watering ovals of rate payers and their law abiding kids – yet manages to find water for a bloody aboretum and two ovals at prisons…..

I’m all for rehabilitation – but if the kids of Chisholm Primary had an oval to play on then maybe their energy would go into sports and not into petty crime.

Maybe I should get a job there. I’m sure most people wont mind the odd drowning in the heated pool. 🙂

FYI – The ‘safe’ room or otherwise known as a padded cell is for those who get uncontrollable or who maybe self harmers. I would assume though that there won’t be any knives in the kitchens……..

Well, my kids don’t have a pool or basketball court either, but with all our family failings I would still be very surprised if they would prefer Bimberi to our home.

I can only feel sad that any teenager or child is living such a life that an institution would be something to be looked forward to. I, for one, hope they encounter a teacher or staff member who can really reach them and that they get to experience something approaching love at least once in their miserable existences.

It seems to me that their everyday lives must be far worse punishment than prison, so you should all be able to rejoice and celebrate the hardships and deprivations that these children are already suffering.

So how to we get admission to Bimberi holiday camp?

In a past life I also worked with regular Quamby attenders, and there is truth to the comments made here that some of them definitely used the corrections system as a form of time out from the real world because it was too hard. And I can certainly see many of those I dealt with looking at this facility as a pleasant option, with the added bonus of freedom from pretty much any decision making.
When did the words punishment, responsibility, consequence, boundaries become so wrong, and who decided they should???
You know the sequence, you breach the boundaries set by society, you accept responsibility for your actions, you cop the punishment meted out, and you move on with your life working through the consequences.
Not today ducky! There are no enforceable boundaries, you have rights, your wrongdoing is someone else’s fault so you’re given a wrist slap, and the only consequences suffered are by the victims of your crimes.
Should Bimberi be a dungeon, no! But it should at least be austere and uninviting! And certainly a “pay as a you go” system as advocated by Special G would at least reflect the way most of us interact in society, earn your benefits and priveliges through positive behaviour and self improvement.

I’m jumping onto the “it’s not holiday camp it’s prison” side of the fence.
I remember last year I had someone call me about the Manochie center in Hume, I called it a prison and she was terribly offended and sought to quickly remind me that it’s a rehabilitation center.

Rehabilitation my arse, a quick whip of the cat-o-nine will see these scum learn a fast lesson.

Bigfeet is right – my job now gives me exposure to a lot of these kids, and they are excited about going to Bimberi because of the facilities(which are better than those at their home, foster home, refuge etc). For some, it is an attractive option, not a punishment.

utah said :

I want prison to be a fscking horrible place, that people will do anything – including obeying the law – to avoid. I want people who’ve been to prison to have nightmares about it, so that any time they even think about stealing cars/breaking in to houses/mugging people, they remember why they shouldn’t.

Like a dungeon?

I’m with Nyssa on this one – what DMD described is like being in the army. except there people are doing a service to their country.

The army works like this – imposed discpline until self discipline kicks in. Someone needs to impose some discipline on the little shits.

If prison was living in a tent and doing chain gangs inbetween producive learning/life skills classes/finishing school etc.. people would not want to go there and learn something while they are there.

Every prison should be a drug rehab centre as well.

Here’s a thought, make it a ‘hard’ place to live/reform and they won’t want to go back.

We have defence members (productive members of society) in Afghanistan living in tents etc. Let them live in tents, do community services (as a chain gang) and give them 3 squares a day. That’s all they need.

Why should these little ‘toe rags’ be treated better than our defence members?

utah said :

Why is that not punishment enough?
Because people re-offend.
….
If you want rehabilitation, start it after the punishment’s over, once they’ve gotten a taste of the outside world.

If you commit a crime you should be punished. Yes…rehabilitation should be the next goal, but punishment should come first as a consequence of your actions.

The ACT style of ‘punishment’ involves being sent to a holiday camp, with better conditions than your home, with all your friends, for a couple of months.

One of the lowest recidivism rates in the world is in Singapore. A few strokes of the rattan stops them in their tracks. There are very few second offenders. If they do continue to offend, then they get counseling, as well as punishment. It seems to stop recidivism. The system we have at the moment doesn’t.

Whilst I believe that corporal punishment (as in Singapore) works, I am not advocating it for the ACT, But I do believe that detention needs to be tougher.

But we are stuck with the Bimberi holiday camp when people like DMD believe that being told to go to bed early “Would you also like to be locked up in a room every night at a set time? “ is a suitable punishment for breaking into someone’s house.

Why is that not punishment enough?
Because people re-offend.

I want prison to be a fscking horrible place, that people will do anything – including obeying the law – to avoid. I want people who’ve been to prison to have nightmares about it, so that any time they even think about stealing cars/breaking in to houses/mugging people, they remember why they shouldn’t. As soon as you start handing people perks they don’t have on the outside, like big screen TVs, heated swimming pools, and free gyms; as soon as you start making prison look like a better alternative to (or even equivalent to) being outside you start defeating that purpose.

If you want rehabilitation, start it after the punishment’s over, once they’ve gotten a taste of the outside world.

In a previous job I knew many of the regular inmates of Quamby and can say the many of them actively sought going to Quamby when the pressures of life got too much. Quamby was treated as a joke…and by some even as a holiday camp… you do your three months, catching up with old friends, getting fed, having sex and were looked after the whole time.

They saw it as a break from the hassles of having to live in the real world.

Most of them are now too old to go to this luxury villa, but I can guarantee that most of their younger siblings will have the same attitude. Except they will be getting it easier.

Wide Boy Jake said :

QUOTE: Ummmm…the average person actually does have access to heated pools and indoor basketball courts. They are called fitness centres and clubs. UNQUOTE

You’re missing the point a bit. “the average person” might have access to swimming pools and fitness clubs but we have to pay to use them, wheras if you kill someone or break into someone’s house you get it all for free. I personally would like to go to a gym and do laps in the pool every morning but I can’t afford it.

Would you also like to be locked up in a room every night at a set time? Would you also like to spend long periods of time grounded to a certain area? Would you also like to be able to mingle with members of the opposite sex? Would you also like to share bathrooms with only your family, if at all?

What people here do not seem to understand is that these inmates are locked up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Their basic right to freedom of travel, freedom of activity and freedom of social interaction have been taken away from them. Why is that not punishment enough? Are people on here’s lives so bad that they do not enjoy these freedoms? If so, you really need to take a good look at the comforts you have and rediscover these freedoms.

QUOTE: Ummmm…the average person actually does have access to heated pools and indoor basketball courts. They are called fitness centres and clubs. UNQUOTE

You’re missing the point a bit. “the average person” might have access to swimming pools and fitness clubs but we have to pay to use them, wheras if you kill someone or break into someone’s house you get it all for free. I personally would like to go to a gym and do laps in the pool every morning but I can’t afford it.

I hope everything in there is a pay as you go system, using credits and good behaviour. Earn credits by working, participating in classes, good behaviour and spend them on things you would have to spend them on in the real world such as heated pools etc…

bd84 said :

Looks cosy to me, in better condition than the majority of schools. Probably means they need to put more money into school facilities..

The rooms are probably better than those at their place too, though they probably have all the mod cons at home of the stuff they’ve nicked from everyone lol.

I have no idea why they require a heated pool or indoor basketball courts. They shouldn’t have luxuries that the average person does not get or have access to.

Ummmm…the average person actually does have access to heated pools and indoor basketball courts. They are called fitness centres and clubs.

And, for the purpose of accuracy, the “shared bathroom in each quarters” is incorrect. That is the only bath in the centre and is to be used for medical/therapeutic purposes.

My understanding is the safe room is an option in an extreme circumstance, where it offers a ‘safe space’. I don’t think it will be used on a daily basis and I don’t think the majority of people at the detention centre will ever even use it. I think history has shown that locking kids up and treating them like criminals simply reinforces what had led them to commit crime in the first place – that they are of little value and are better locked out of sight. I’m sure this centre has been built with consideration to all of the knowledge and research that has been put into this area. I’m really proud that the ACT is leading the world with this centre. Being a child and being locked up every night all by yourself isn’t taken lightly. Anyone that indicates they would ‘book in’ for anyone period of time obviously takes their liberty far too lightly. If you would trade the ability to walk to the shops, sit and read a book when you feel like it, walk around the lake, eat your lunch when you wish, even go to bed when you want to – for a pool and a basketball court, I think you should take a long hard look at yourself!

tylersmayhem said :

Bimberi – no holiday camp

What crack have you been smoking Al – for f**k sake!? That place looks plenty better than most private schools in Canberra and fifty times better than many folks rentals.

I’ve always been a law abiding citizen, but had I not just bought a place, and if I was a minor I’d seriously consider some bad behaviour to go in and make some new mates by the pool or while playing basketball – who says white men can’t jump?!

Oh, it’s sooooo unfair, isn’t it? I mean, you NEVER get rewarded for good behavior in society…Going through high-school, college, uni, CIT, whatever – the only reason you’re really doing that is to be locked up somewhere that has basketball court and a pool. Then these criminals, they get locked up for free! Oh! The injustice!

That’s not… Not That’t. Oops !

Sammy said :

So you all think that the best way to rehabilitate young offenders is to deprive them of all their liberties, make their lives a living hell, and abuse the hell out of them?

Nope, that’t not what I think at all.

Sammy said :

So you all think that the best way to rehabilitate young offenders is to deprive them of all their liberties, make their lives a living hell, and abuse the hell out of them? Do you think that’ll turn them back into well-rounded young humans?

This is a juvenile justice centre. These people are young, and this is the time when we have the best chance of rehabilitating them. I’m happy to let the people who know more than me about rehabilitating criminals (and I know squat) do what they need to do to hopefully achieve the best possible outcomes for these young offenders.

I’m sure when they sat down and designed this place, they used previous outcomes and experience from other centres when they made decisions about what facilities should be provided. If i’m wrong, then I despair, but I suspect i’m not.

well said, it just seems unjust that these law breakers get a better deal than plenty of hardworking, law abiding canberrans. However that said, we dont know how it will operate or how they will be treated etc

So you all think that the best way to rehabilitate young offenders is to deprive them of all their liberties, make their lives a living hell, and abuse the hell out of them? Do you think that’ll turn them back into well-rounded young humans?

This is a juvenile justice centre. These people are young, and this is the time when we have the best chance of rehabilitating them. I’m happy to let the people who know more than me about rehabilitating criminals (and I know squat) do what they need to do to hopefully achieve the best possible outcomes for these young offenders.

I’m sure when they sat down and designed this place, they used previous outcomes and experience from other centres when they made decisions about what facilities should be provided. If i’m wrong, then I despair, but I suspect i’m not.

Wide Boy Jake said :

Strange how the swimming pool at the Bidura juvenile justice centre on the central coast of NSW had to be filled in a few years back after revelations of lax discipline made the news, yet here in Canberra we have a centre which is even cushier. Something is not quite right here . . .

Just because the pool is there it doesn’t mean the residents will have free access to it when ever they want.

Strange how the swimming pool at the Bidura juvenile justice centre on the central coast of NSW had to be filled in a few years back after revelations of lax discipline made the news, yet here in Canberra we have a centre which is even cushier. Something is not quite right here . . .

If I was a crook, I’d like to be locked up in Canberra.

Bimberi – no holiday camp

What crack have you been smoking Al – for f**k sake!? That place looks plenty better than most private schools in Canberra and fifty times better than many folks rentals.

I’ve always been a law abiding citizen, but had I not just bought a place, and if I was a minor I’d seriously consider some bad behaviour to go in and make some new mates by the pool or while playing basketball – who says white men can’t jump?!

hmmm doesnt really seem fair that they should be living better than some avergae people…
but what can you do – thats the way it always seems to go.

What a crock. Excitement? Phfft. Please give back the tax $ and give them good hard honest work to do. Might even make them better people…. but I doubt it.

I’ll second Granny’s excitement about it – it looks really nice, and the swimming pool and gym are very convenient.

Does anyone know what the rent’s like, as my lease is coming to an end.

I am actually quite excited about it – I think it’s a fantastic facility. I do wonder how long they make them stay in the safe room though. That would drive me crazy in less than hour.

Looks cosy to me, in better condition than the majority of schools. Probably means they need to put more money into school facilities..

The rooms are probably better than those at their place too, though they probably have all the mod cons at home of the stuff they’ve nicked from everyone lol.

I have no idea why they require a heated pool or indoor basketball courts. They shouldn’t have luxuries that the average person does not get or have access to.