18 June 2012

Blood to flow at the Canberra Times, but we are hiring!

| johnboy
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Crikey is explaining the cuts to Fairfax announced this morning which will impact the Canberra Times:

In the bombshell announcement delivered via a technically-plagued internal staff webcast this morning, CEO Greg Hywood said 20% of the cuts would come from editorial, 20% from printing and the remainder from other activities.

The media giant currently employs 800 metropolitan journalists across The Age, The Herald, The Canberra Times and its Brisbane and Perth web portals.

Apparently the cuts are around half of the editorial staff.

Here in the Eagle’s Nest we can’t see incoming Fairfax owner Gina Rineheart being happy about a paywall reducing her influence (she’s not buying it for profits). But an editorial cleanout would please her greatly we imagine.

We quite like Wil Anderson’s tweet:

RiotACT on the other hand is looking to staff up so any journalists out there who enjoy working hard should send their CV in to root@the-riotact.com . (Journalists who faff about all week and crap out 300 word stories ripped from un-named websites need not apply, you know who you are)

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VYBerlinaV8_is_back1:20 pm 21 Jun 12

Jungle Jim said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

c_c said :

The RiotACT was selected for archiving, a snapshot taken on a single day back in 2001.
Pandora has the site listed as not being re-archived. That snapshot is it, despite all that has happened since in ten years.

Don’t fret, because my favourite RiotACT story ever has been archived:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080731123539/http://the-riotact.com/?p=6663

A nice, albeit easy, wind up there! Obviously from a magical time when comment moderation wasn’t in effect…

They were crazy times, and a lot of fun.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

c_c said :

The RiotACT was selected for archiving, a snapshot taken on a single day back in 2001.
Pandora has the site listed as not being re-archived. That snapshot is it, despite all that has happened since in ten years.

Don’t fret, because my favourite RiotACT story ever has been archived:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080731123539/http://the-riotact.com/?p=6663

A nice, albeit easy, wind up there! Obviously from a magical time when comment moderation wasn’t in effect…

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

I’m sitting next to an archivist now – there are actually tears rolling down her face, I shit you not.

Thanks for the entertainment.

For God’s sake, man, have a shower and use some deodorant. The onion-like effect from the stench of your unjustified smugness is clearly getting to her.

What an awesome comment – you’re bringing such perspicacity and insight into the debate. I kneel before your obviously superior wisdom and wit.

It’s not a debate when you ignore your opponent’s argument and instead choose to fabricate one on their behalf that suits your position/arrogance.

“Once the newspapers are gone, archivists won’t know where to get information from.”

Only someone with reading comprehension difficulties could draw that inference from what was posted. That, or someone who doesn’t have a solid argument.

Mysteryman said :

Jim Jones said :

I’m sitting next to an archivist now – there are actually tears rolling down her face, I shit you not.

Thanks for the entertainment.

For God’s sake, man, have a shower and use some deodorant. The onion-like effect from the stench of your unjustified smugness is clearly getting to her.

What an awesome comment – you’re bringing such perspicacity and insight into the debate. I kneel before your obviously superior wisdom and wit.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back11:13 am 21 Jun 12

c_c said :

The RiotACT was selected for archiving, a snapshot taken on a single day back in 2001.
Pandora has the site listed as not being re-archived. That snapshot is it, despite all that has happened since in ten years.

Don’t fret, because my favourite RiotACT story ever has been archived:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080731123539/http://the-riotact.com/?p=6663

Jim Jones said :

I’m sitting next to an archivist now – there are actually tears rolling down her face, I shit you not.

Thanks for the entertainment.

For God’s sake, man, have a shower and use some deodorant. The onion-like effect from the stench of your unjustified smugness is clearly getting to her.

I’m sitting next to an archivist now – there are actually tears rolling down her face, I shit you not.

Thanks for the entertainment.

c_c said :

Jim Jones said :

Pandora is an excellent example, and is growing at a very large rate (as are similar institutional repositories).

Complaining that there isn’t enough information being collected in an era dominated by information overload and an exponential growth in digital archiving seems pretty bizarre to me.

People researching this era in 50 years are hardly going to be starved for information.
Regardless, the argument is anomalous: “How will we know what the papers were saying about stuff when the papers ceased to exist?” It’s an anomalous question. Once printed newspapers cease to be primary sources of information, then they’re not worth consulting as historical records.

This has got to be a wind up, no one could possibly have such difficulty understanding something.

News is moving online, including the newspapers. The hard copies will eventually cease, replaced by a medium which isn’t archived in a regulated manner.

Online archives take a snap shot at present, they don’t archive in the comprehensive manner needed for research, or as current physical archives do.

Pandora doesn’t archive The Canberra Times online, in fact they don’t seem to archive any papers’ websites.

The RiotACT was selected for archiving, a snapshot taken on a single day back in 2001.
Pandora has the site listed as not being re-archived. That snapshot is it, despite all that has happened since in ten years.

Those media organisations that are cultivating comprehensive online archives, like The Times and NY Times charge for access.

The only thing that’s bizarre is thinking just because there’s a plethora of information at one point in time means that information will somehow always be available.

“Once the newspapers are gone, archivists won’t know where to get information from.”

“Lol” is my response. That’s all it deserves. Talk to an archivist for 30 seconds and they’ll start laughing at this sort of guff.

HenryBG said :

Thumper said :

News is a crooked organisation run by liars, cheats and thieves.

Of course.

Do you ever think about what you write?

Seriously?

They’re right now busy throwing the people who run News in gaol, one-by-one, in the UK.

Seriously.

I’m sorry, but just exactly who in Australia has been charged with anything?

I mean, you know, these liars, cheats and thieves that you speak of?

Seriously?

Jim Jones said :

Pandora is an excellent example, and is growing at a very large rate (as are similar institutional repositories).

Complaining that there isn’t enough information being collected in an era dominated by information overload and an exponential growth in digital archiving seems pretty bizarre to me.

People researching this era in 50 years are hardly going to be starved for information.
Regardless, the argument is anomalous: “How will we know what the papers were saying about stuff when the papers ceased to exist?” It’s an anomalous question. Once printed newspapers cease to be primary sources of information, then they’re not worth consulting as historical records.

This has got to be a wind up, no one could possibly have such difficulty understanding something.

News is moving online, including the newspapers. The hard copies will eventually cease, replaced by a medium which isn’t archived in a regulated manner.

Online archives take a snap shot at present, they don’t archive in the comprehensive manner needed for research, or as current physical archives do.

Pandora doesn’t archive The Canberra Times online, in fact they don’t seem to archive any papers’ websites.

The RiotACT was selected for archiving, a snapshot taken on a single day back in 2001.
Pandora has the site listed as not being re-archived. That snapshot is it, despite all that has happened since in ten years.

Those media organisations that are cultivating comprehensive online archives, like The Times and NY Times charge for access.

The only thing that’s bizarre is thinking just because there’s a plethora of information at one point in time means that information will somehow always be available.

c_c said :

Jazz said :

simsim said :

Yes, but longer form investigative journalism requires resources that free independent news sites simply don’t have. You can’t track down every false lead and be prepared to give the space to a more complex narrative when you’re constantly looking for what will look good in a short headline and lead clickthroughs.

I think there’s a place for both highly responsive, in the moment websites and for the longer form daily newspaper, and I think it’s a pity people seem to think it’s either/or.

Feel free to upgrade your account to a paid membership 🙂 it help us deliver exactly that investigative journalism you’re seeking. You can sign up or upgrade at http://the-riotact.com/sign-up

Investigative journalism is one area, another and perhaps more important one longer term is actually being a record of things. Flick though any political biography, essay, whatever, and you’ll see citation after citation that from newspapers and magazines. Heck read up on the 1980s and it’s amusing to see the number of times someone’s “influential article in The Bulletin” is cited, an era that has now passed.

So yes, there are bloggers, and there are independent news sites (present company included). And today and tomorrow they’ll do the job. But most blogs are not recorded for posterity and many independent news sites aren’t either (not sure if RA is being recorded by the NLA in anyway?)

So when people want to research this era in a decade, in 50 yrs, what will they use?

The ACT Light Rail website/blog is archived by Pandora.

That is useful for future researchers.

Many links that site had to CT articles are now of less value as the CT regularly discards its online history. i make a habit of printing to PDF any online news item i reference in a light rail article.

I went looking for something that Save The Ridge had written about the routes selected for the GDE and although those folks have folded their website, I found it at the Internet Archive. You would be surprised what they have hoovered up over the years.

c_c said :

Jim Jones said :

c_c said :

So when people want to research this era in a decade, in 50 yrs, what will they use?

Easily searchable digital archives.

lol, what digital archives and what will the contain?

Just the other day I was given a link to an SMH article from 2003 which was no longer online. I’d have to check the print edition at the library.

Under Copyright law, all printed materials end up at the National Library.
Under Commonwealth information laws, all government papers end up in the National Archives.

Law doesn’t apply to online materials.

There are efforts, like the library’s Pandora and Trove programs and other institutions like Library of Congress are doing similar things, but they’re not comprehensive.
There are private web archives, but when they go bust (and some have) then that data is gone.

Pandora is an excellent example, and is growing at a very large rate (as are similar institutional repositories).

Complaining that there isn’t enough information being collected in an era dominated by information overload and an exponential growth in digital archiving seems pretty bizarre to me.

People researching this era in 50 years are hardly going to be starved for information.

Regardless, the argument is anomalous: “How will we know what the papers were saying about stuff when the papers ceased to exist?” It’s an anomalous question. Once printed newspapers cease to be primary sources of information, then they’re not worth consulting as historical records.

Jim Jones said :

c_c said :

So when people want to research this era in a decade, in 50 yrs, what will they use?

Easily searchable digital archives.

lol, what digital archives and what will the contain?

Just the other day I was given a link to an SMH article from 2003 which was no longer online. I’d have to check the print edition at the library.

Under Copyright law, all printed materials end up at the National Library.
Under Commonwealth information laws, all government papers end up in the National Archives.

Law doesn’t apply to online materials.

There are efforts, like the library’s Pandora and Trove programs and other institutions like Library of Congress are doing similar things, but they’re not comprehensive.
There are private web archives, but when they go bust (and some have) then that data is gone.

c_c said :

So when people want to research this era in a decade, in 50 yrs, what will they use?

Easily searchable digital archives.

Jazz said :

simsim said :

Yes, but longer form investigative journalism requires resources that free independent news sites simply don’t have. You can’t track down every false lead and be prepared to give the space to a more complex narrative when you’re constantly looking for what will look good in a short headline and lead clickthroughs.

I think there’s a place for both highly responsive, in the moment websites and for the longer form daily newspaper, and I think it’s a pity people seem to think it’s either/or.

Feel free to upgrade your account to a paid membership 🙂 it help us deliver exactly that investigative journalism you’re seeking. You can sign up or upgrade at http://the-riotact.com/sign-up

Investigative journalism is one area, another and perhaps more important one longer term is actually being a record of things. Flick though any political biography, essay, whatever, and you’ll see citation after citation that from newspapers and magazines. Heck read up on the 1980s and it’s amusing to see the number of times someone’s “influential article in The Bulletin” is cited, an era that has now passed.

So yes, there are bloggers, and there are independent news sites (present company included). And today and tomorrow they’ll do the job. But most blogs are not recorded for posterity and many independent news sites aren’t either (not sure if RA is being recorded by the NLA in anyway?)

So when people want to research this era in a decade, in 50 yrs, what will they use?

Jazz said :

simsim said :

Yes, but longer form investigative journalism requires resources that free independent news sites simply don’t have. You can’t track down every false lead and be prepared to give the space to a more complex narrative when you’re constantly looking for what will look good in a short headline and lead clickthroughs.

I think there’s a place for both highly responsive, in the moment websites and for the longer form daily newspaper, and I think it’s a pity people seem to think it’s either/or.

Feel free to upgrade your account to a paid membership 🙂 it help us deliver exactly that investigative journalism you’re seeking. You can sign up or upgrade at http://the-riotact.com/sign-up

Lol, I just looked up the subscription link you gave Jazz

One of the advantages of subscription listed says Edit your ‘heat of the moment’ comments

Looks like I’ll be saving some pennies for that subscription 😉

HenryBG said :

Thumper said :

News is a crooked organisation run by liars, cheats and thieves.

Of course.

Do you ever think about what you write?

Seriously?

They’re right now busy throwing the people who run News in gaol, one-by-one, in the UK.

Seriously.

So you paint everyone with the same brush?

However, I’m sure that when someone in Australia gets charged you’ll be lining up for jury duty.

Oh wait…

Thumper said :

News is a crooked organisation run by liars, cheats and thieves.

Of course.

Do you ever think about what you write?

Seriously?

They’re right now busy throwing the people who run News in gaol, one-by-one, in the UK.

Seriously.

simsim said :

Yes, but longer form investigative journalism requires resources that free independent news sites simply don’t have. You can’t track down every false lead and be prepared to give the space to a more complex narrative when you’re constantly looking for what will look good in a short headline and lead clickthroughs.

I think there’s a place for both highly responsive, in the moment websites and for the longer form daily newspaper, and I think it’s a pity people seem to think it’s either/or.

Feel free to upgrade your account to a paid membership 🙂 it help us deliver exactly that investigative journalism you’re seeking. You can sign up or upgrade at http://the-riotact.com/sign-up

News is a crooked organisation run by liars, cheats and thieves.

Of course.

Do you ever think about what you write?

Seriously?

johnboy said :

What an owner chooses to publish with their press does not diminish its freedom.

I’d rather choose not to read murdoch media (or read bits of it) than to live in a country where any given person can decide what can be published.

No. There comes a point where a power imbalance becomes the government’s responsibility to redress. News passed that point a long time ago, and it was only a stroke of luck that has caused their purchase of police and politicians in the UK to come unravelled.

At the moment, News has similarly captured the Australian Liberal Party and, with the help of people like Minchin and Abbott, have turned it into something that has Menzies’ squirming in his grave.

Their frontal assault on the Victorian police shows they are a very serious threat to government, police, and democracy.

Thumper said :

“They should be shut down. I believe in a free press, not a captive one.”

Does anyone else see a slight flaw in this statement?

& this goes to Damien too:
a media organisation owned by a politically-motivated, malevolent and dishonest billionaire and which is used as Murdoch uses it is not any part of a “Free Press”. It’s no different to the propaganda apparatus of Nazi Germany of Communist Russia: its purpose is not to inform, educate or expose. Quite the opposite – it is used to misinform in order to capture government, manipulate markets and start wars.
Just look at what they did to Simon Overland.

And check out what happened to the guy who blew the whistle on News’s illegal activities in the UK, too – he didn’t live very long. Suicide, of course.

The UK are sticking the boot into this organisation and we shouldn’t tolerate its activities here, either.

Damien’s ignoring the proven fact that News is run by crooks, all the way to the top.
Nothing to do with press I disapprove of – News is a crooked organisation run by liars, cheats and thieves.

What an owner chooses to publish with their press does not diminish its freedom.

I’d rather choose not to read murdoch media (or read bits of it) than to live in a country where any given person can decide what can be published.

I-filed said :

35 posts in and not a word of sympathy for all our fellow Canberrans who are set to lose their jobs. Riotact has been knocking Canberra Times about for yonks – how about pulling those punches, folks, as according to 666 the Crimes is holding a “sacking meeting” on Wednesday.

Quite right. A mate of mine’s a journo there, and a damn good one. I’m sorry for anyone who gets sacked through this.

“They should be shut down. I believe in a free press, not a captive one.”

Does anyone else see a slight flaw in this statement?

HenryBG said :

I’m sorry, but News has carved out its own special category of unprofessionally dishonest nastiness posing as journalism that no others are likely to ever reach.

The UK govenrment has finally started to do something about them, while our government here remains as craven as ever.

They should be shut down. I believe in a free press, not a captive one.

So you believe in a free press, except that of which you disapprove, which should be shut down.

You do realise that there is nothing stopping ANYONE from starting their own newspaper. If you dont like what you read, start your own. Get all your like minded mates to buy it. Im sure it will be a resounding success.

These media inquisitions, sorry inquirys are anti-free press. Beware of unintended consequences.

basketofcat said :

Long ago I recall going to a garage sale Juddery had at house in Narrabundah, east of Sturt Avenue. He was smoking a vile cheroot and I recall being amazed by his collection of B&W … fine art … magazines.

a quick search turned up this: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/28/1043534057105.html

vis a vis the leveson inquiry, the 24 media cycle and dirt files go both ways… there’ll be no more journalists like that.

Those things he smoked were truly horrible.

I’m sorry, but News has carved out its own special category of unprofessionally dishonest nastiness posing as journalism that no others are likely to ever reach.
The UK govenrment has finally started to do something about them, while our government here remains as craven as ever.
They should be shut down. I believe in a free press, not a captive one.

HenryBG said :

justin heywood said :

This thinly-veiled glee at the loss of so many journalist jobs does not reflect well on you Johnboy.

Canberra is a major city, deserving of a quality paper.

And back in the day of Rod Campbell and Geoff Pryor, we had it. Bruce Juddery.

But now? Sharpe? Victor Violante?
It’s not very good. And it struggles to sell 30,000 papers a day.

Rhinehart is showing you what non-government-media are now all about: a means to buy political influence and disseminate propaganda.
People aren’t stupid: we all know News Limited is shovelling out lies that suit its owners’ business and political interests, that’s why we rely on a variety of online sources for our news, now.

Newspapers are dead – it’s great to see Rhinehart throwing away her undeserved inheritance to soften the blow of the inevitable collapse of Fairfax.

Long ago I recall going to a garage sale Juddery had at house in Narrabundah, east of Sturt Avenue. He was smoking a vile cheroot and I recall being amazed by his collection of B&W … fine art … magazines.

a quick search turned up this: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/28/1043534057105.html

vis a vis the leveson inquiry, the 24 media cycle and dirt files go both ways… there’ll be no more journalists like that.

justin heywood said :

This thinly-veiled glee at the loss of so many journalist jobs does not reflect well on you Johnboy.

Canberra is a major city, deserving of a quality paper.

And back in the day of Rod Campbell and Geoff Pryor, we had it. Bruce Juddery.

But now? Sharpe? Victor Violante?
It’s not very good. And it struggles to sell 30,000 papers a day.

Rhinehart is showing you what non-government-media are now all about: a means to buy political influence and disseminate propaganda.
People aren’t stupid: we all know News Limited is shovelling out lies that suit its owners’ business and political interests, that’s why we rely on a variety of online sources for our news, now.

Newspapers are dead – it’s great to see Rhinehart throwing away her undeserved inheritance to soften the blow of the inevitable collapse of Fairfax.

I think you may find that as big media loses relevance and heads online less profitably (until they figure out how to make it pay), local media such as The Chronicle may find itself as a profitable niche.

On the plus side, this would surely also have to be the death knell of the Chronicle? A paper filled only with reheated media releases, ACT Gov’t advertising, and small ads from businesses who would seemingly otherwise advertise on noticeboards at the local shops. Even though it may be cheap to produce, it sounds like Fairfax are really intent to cut costs wherever possible. I saw that they recently were pushing people to sign up to the online edition, seemingly another pointer to them finally ending the waste of paper, plastic and delivery efforts. We can only hope…

justin heywood said :

This thinly-veiled glee at the loss of so many journalist jobs does not reflect well on you Johnboy.

Canberra is a major city, deserving of a quality paper. I think the Riotact has a role in this city’s media, but not as an alternative to mainstream news sources. While the Crimes had some quality issues, Riotact has virtually no control of quality or accuracy – most of the content is anonymously written and editorial control is largely centralized in one individual, whose objective is Internet hits, not news gathering. Forums such as this are not the ‘new media’, they are at best transitional until the main players work out how to make money in the new paradigm.

And one day the bell may toll for you, Johnboy.

RiotAct is the only media outlet in town thats not influenced by corporate or poitical agendas. At least when JB runs a press release its marked as such, instead of being uncritically presented as ‘news’.

Once published, the items take on lives of their own. This rarely happens on other websites. The ABC f’rinstance turn comments off after a few hours. Usually after the same-thinkers have all agreed with each other. I am thinking of items here where the people involved have actually responded – instead of having that response filtered by a journalist, a sub-editor and a lawyer.

The fact that so many stories or public opinions gravitate from RA to mainstream media (almost always uncredited) indicates its effect (positive) and role in the media scene in Canberra.

goggles13 said :

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

I’m sure governments would be happy to feed you all the free news you want.

still plenty of free independent news sites…like this one

Well, for a start, this site may be ‘free’ but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t need financial support. Those avatars above some usernames are there for a reason. But then I guess leeches think everything is free until it’s no longer there.

And you think you’ve never read news on here that was sourced from the Canberra Times or another professional newsgathering organisation? What do you think all those hyperlinks are?? What do you think Crikey, the cited source of this thread, is?

The difference between Crimes and RA is that JB is better at acknowledging his sources, but news organisations have always fed off each other for leads. All those ‘free’ news services source their news from somewhere, because they sure-as-shit don’t have the resources to gather the news, conduct the interviews, and broadcast it themselves.

Losing professional organisations will have a trickle down effect on all the ‘free’ news you think you have an endless supply of. But if you want to be spoon-fed press releases, then rejoice!

surely a lack of competition in newspapers has had more of an effect that the consolidation of a single newspaper company resources.

in this town, you get the Fairfax view of the world in a newspaper, and no other.

That’s one way to look at it, but when you see how many of the stories are sourced from Wires and other newsrooms, it’s not quite as exclusive as it appears on the surface.

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

I’m sure governments would be happy to feed you all the free news you want.

still plenty of free independent news sites…like this one

Well, for a start, this site may be ‘free’ but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t need financial support. Those avatars above some usernames are there for a reason. But then I guess leeches think everything is free until it’s no longer there.

And you think you’ve never read news on here that was sourced from the Canberra Times or another professional newsgathering organisation? What do you think all those hyperlinks are?? What do you think Crikey, the cited source of this thread, is?

The difference between Crimes and RA is that JB is better at acknowledging his sources, but news organisations have always fed off each other for leads. All those ‘free’ news services source their news from somewhere, because they sure-as-shit don’t have the resources to gather the news, conduct the interviews, and broadcast it themselves.

Losing professional organisations will have a trickle down effect on all the ‘free’ news you think you have an endless supply of. But if you want to be spoon-fed press releases, then rejoice!

surely a lack of competition in newspapers has had more of an effect that the consolidation of a single newspaper company resources.

in this town, you get the Fairfax view of the world in a newspaper, and no other.

I buy the Crimes on Saturday, to see who has a poem in it (they’re awfully good, sometimes) and to read some of the literary reviews.

I also look at the real estate as I like words used strangely.

I don’t use if for news as such.

justin heywood10:11 pm 18 Jun 12

This thinly-veiled glee at the loss of so many journalist jobs does not reflect well on you Johnboy.

Canberra is a major city, deserving of a quality paper. I think the Riotact has a role in this city’s media, but not as an alternative to mainstream news sources. While the Crimes had some quality issues, Riotact has virtually no control of quality or accuracy – most of the content is anonymously written and editorial control is largely centralized in one individual, whose objective is Internet hits, not news gathering. Forums such as this are not the ‘new media’, they are at best transitional until the main players work out how to make money in the new paradigm.

And one day the bell may toll for you, Johnboy.

It’s tolled plenty of times.

If the ct had ever acted with decency or honesty I’d take less glee.

But they are neither and do their readers little good IMHO.

If you want to read the property council’s view they already have an excellent website.

I enjoy reading the longer articles on the weekend. And the cross word which is still superior in print. Otherwise pretty much all the news in the paper in the morning I’ve already read, sometimes many days prior. If they could make the CT more gossipy and local, much like the NT news, I’d happily pay to get it.

goggles13 said :

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

I’m sure governments would be happy to feed you all the free news you want.

still plenty of free independent news sites…like this one

Yes, but longer form investigative journalism requires resources that free independent news sites simply don’t have. You can’t track down every false lead and be prepared to give the space to a more complex narrative when you’re constantly looking for what will look good in a short headline and lead clickthroughs.

I think there’s a place for both highly responsive, in the moment websites and for the longer form daily newspaper, and I think it’s a pity people seem to think it’s either/or.

goggles13 said :

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

I’m sure governments would be happy to feed you all the free news you want.

still plenty of free independent news sites…like this one

Well, for a start, this site may be ‘free’ but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t need financial support. Those avatars above some usernames are there for a reason. But then I guess leeches think everything is free until it’s no longer there.

And you think you’ve never read news on here that was sourced from the Canberra Times or another professional newsgathering organisation? What do you think all those hyperlinks are?? What do you think Crikey, the cited source of this thread, is?

The difference between Crimes and RA is that JB is better at acknowledging his sources, but news organisations have always fed off each other for leads. All those ‘free’ news services source their news from somewhere, because they sure-as-shit don’t have the resources to gather the news, conduct the interviews, and broadcast it themselves.

Losing professional organisations will have a trickle down effect on all the ‘free’ news you think you have an endless supply of. But if you want to be spoon-fed press releases, then rejoice!

Postalgeek said :

goggles13 said :

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

I’m sure governments would be happy to feed you all the free news you want.

still plenty of free independent news sites…like this one

Pity the cull doesnt include the dinosaurs running the place

Well from here we’re very happy to see the talent driven out and the dinosaurs remain.

I hear some of them still get their secretaries to print out website pages to see what we’re saying!

Thumper said :

Doesn’t seem to be a hell of a lot of sympathy for the thousands of PS cuts made by the current Federal government either.

Hmm, I respect your opinion but I’m waiting to hear what Mrs Thumper thinks.

I-filed said :

35 posts in and not a word of sympathy for all our fellow Canberrans who are set to lose their jobs. Riotact has been knocking Canberra Times about for yonks – how about pulling those punches, folks, as according to 666 the Crimes is holding a “sacking meeting” on Wednesday.

Doesn’t seem to be a hell of a lot of sympathy for the thousands of PS cuts made by the current Federal government either.

Jobs change all the time.

Workers who don’t get redundancy or get shafted on entitlements I’ll weep for. The rest is life and lord knows I’ve lost as many jobs as I’ve quit from.

I reckon it’d be awesome for RA to hire a few local journos to go out on the streets and get fresh stories and local dirt! It’d certainly be a step up from re-quoting stuff from other websites and the occasional (weekly ATM) ‘discussion piece’ on why cannabis should be legalised! Bring it on JB! 🙂

goggles13 said :

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

I’m sure governments would be happy to feed you all the free news you want.

Look there’s no winners in this, and a lot of good people will pay the price for the mistakes of those at the top.

I think its just hard for a lot of people to feel sorry for an organisation that has not put more in and hasn’t listened. I don’t just mean CT, I mean Fairfax.

Alan Kohler was just on explaining the lethargy at Fairfax, one reason he was sacked from The Age (for daring to suggest the internet may be a thing).

johnboy said :

Maybe if the plagiarists had ever once acknowledged their source when lifting from websites? (Not just riotact)

MediaWatch used to be good for pulling up that kind of thing, unfortunately now it’s turned into The Jonathon Holes Show.

johnboy said :

Maybe if the plagiarists had ever once acknowledged their source when lifting from websites? (Not just riotact)

I don’t think the printers and the people who man the phones do any lifting from Riotact …

35 posts in and not a word of sympathy for all our fellow Canberrans who are set to lose their jobs. Riotact has been knocking Canberra Times about for yonks – how about pulling those punches, folks, as according to 666 the Crimes is holding a “sacking meeting” on Wednesday.

Maybe if the plagiarists had ever once acknowledged their source when lifting from websites? (Not just riotact)

oh well no huge loss – the life of paper newspapers is limited at best.

good luck with the paywall idea, plenty of free news out there.

Myles Peterson5:16 pm 18 Jun 12

*inhale*

nah, too easy … enjoy the show

But there has been rationalisation. Investigative units, foreign correspondents, basically all the stuff where you really want more people working on it to gather news. Yet they still send dozens of staff to cover door stops.

Seems they’re trying very hard to be inefficient.

johnboy said :

WillowJim said :

I just checked out Fairfax’s announcement to the ASX. I doubt many journalists will lose their jobs; “editorial and content” only accounts for 23% of Fairfax’s cost base, compared with 34% for “production and distribution”. The paper stuff is a clearly a heavy weight.

Also, the Oz is saying only 20% of the job losses will be journalists; not 50% as you say.

20% of the total cuts from editorial, or 380 of 800 odd positions.

Just what 800 journalists are doing there for what is produced is an utter mystery to me.

I don’t really get the numbers in journalism, nor the obvious duplication of roles.

I mean I’ve been in a few press scrums and I can’t figure out why the bigger ones tend to consist of the following:
Fairfax Photographer
Fairfax Journalist
Canberra Times Photographer
News Limited Photographer
News Limited Journalist
ABC Radio Journalist
ABC TV Journalist
ABC TV Camera
AAP Photographer
AAP Journalist
Nine Network Camera
Nine Network Reporter
Seven Network Camera
Seven Network Reporter

All this just to capture the same scene press conference from slightly different angles.
There’s a lot of fat to trim and I think a lot of potential for cross skilling.

Basically when the classifieds brought in rivers of gold management never had the courage to rationalise.

Also back in the day photography required considerably more skill than it does today and transferring photographs was much harder.

johnboy said :

20% of the total cuts from editorial, or 380 of 800 odd positions.

Thanks – didn’t read closely enough.

Little_Green_Bag said :

When The Courier-Mail went tabloid there was all this BS about it being a compact, like News did in the UK with The Times … It became indistinguishable from the Telegraph and Herald Sun …

In Fairfax’s case, the new tabloid SMH and Age will start off like the AFR but gradually decline to resemble the Newcastle Herald and the Illawarra Mercury.

Wow. I quite like the Courier Mail; it’s the least “tabloid” in tone of all of the News Ltd papers. It’s nothing like as bad as the Terror or the Hun.

And the Newcastle Herald is a great, parochial (but in the right way) paper, that suits the parachial city it serves. The Crimes is good, too, given its size, but like all newspapers it’s less than what it once was. Do you expect every newspaper to be The New York Times? Your life must be full of disappointments!

WillowJim said :

I just checked out Fairfax’s announcement to the ASX. I doubt many journalists will lose their jobs; “editorial and content” only accounts for 23% of Fairfax’s cost base, compared with 34% for “production and distribution”. The paper stuff is a clearly a heavy weight.

Also, the Oz is saying only 20% of the job losses will be journalists; not 50% as you say.

20% of the total cuts from editorial, or 380 of 800 odd positions.

Just what 800 journalists are doing there for what is produced is an utter mystery to me.

I just checked out Fairfax’s announcement to the ASX. I doubt many journalists will lose their jobs; “editorial and content” only accounts for 23% of Fairfax’s cost base, compared with 34% for “production and distribution”. The paper stuff is a clearly a heavy weight.

Also, the Oz is saying only 20% of the job losses will be journalists; not 50% as you say.

The ABC has just been reporting editor Rod Quinn has “no statement to make about the future of the paper” which makes one think editorial will be going to the consolidated newsroom.

c_c said :

That’s too simplified, it’s more a mixed bag than that.

Definitely general new sites have struggled, examples like Slate who started free then tried a pay wall model failed and had to revert.

But then sites of a more specialist nature have succeeded, like the Wall Street Journal.

Bloggers are over rated, even though some get quite a bit of air time around the place, the statistics in Australia show they have an absolutely tiny readership in proportion to the main outlets. There not competition.

Well, in Australia your news sources are News Ltd (now paywalled), Fairfax (about to be pay walled) and ABC – free but generally just reports the news with little analysis, opinion etc (apart from the Drum to some extent)

So Fairfax can paywall because its main competitor already does it.

Almost justifies an ipad. Buy a weekend subscription to the paper version and I think you get a ‘free’ ipad subscription. If that continues to apply, could be the way to go.

Little_Green_Bag3:33 pm 18 Jun 12

Can’t believe the CT will remain a broadsheet – the only broadsheet left in the Fairfax stable – while their big brothers become tabloids. How long will this odd arrangement stay in place before the Crimes has to follow? At least they’re being honest and using the T (tabloid) word rather than trying to hide behind the word “compact”.

When The Courier-Mail went tabloid there was all this BS about it being a compact, like News did in the UK with The Times. “Oh no no no, it’s not a tabloid, it’s a compact” implying that the perceived high quality of the broadsheet would simply be reduced in page size. They kept up this pretense for about a year – the same fonts and a desire for quality journalism – before the old headline fonts were replaced with screaming upper-case banner headlines and a sharp plunge downmarket of the “Vicar In Crypt Orgy” style. It became indistinguishable from the Telegraph and Herald Sun.

In Fairfax’s case, the new tabloid SMH and Age will start off like the AFR but gradually decline to resemble the Newcastle Herald and the Illawarra Mercury.

poetix said :

Is that e-mail right? Surely such vulgarity is a typo?

BTW if you ever need an over-sensitive left-wing arts-obsessed person with triffic spelling who hates teamwork, thinks advertising is the devil’s own calling card, and who will murder the entire office within two days, I know where you can find such a being.

I am sure there are several positions at the ABC that suit your CV.

Aaroncbr said :

Dear Lisa, as I write this, I am very sad. Our journalists have been overthrown and REPLACED, BY THE BENEVOLENT GENERAL RINEHART. ALL HAIL RINEHART, AND HER GLORIOUS NEW REGIME. SINCERELY, LITTLE GIRL.

If you have Fairfax shares in you superannuation investment potfolio you should consider yourself lucky that Gina Rinehart, by her presence alone, is dragging the board of Faifax, kicking and screaming, into the digital age.

harvyk1 said :

As for this notion of putting up paywalls, didn’t the various media orgs learn anything from WEB 1.0? (gee I hate that term). Most orgs failed because in “WEB 1.0” they tried to charge the customer in much the same way as you would in the off-line world, and that does not work. For every story in the offline world, you have 20 bloggers in the online world who where actually there writing about their experiences for free.

That’s too simplified, it’s more a mixed bag than that.

Definitely general new sites have struggled, examples like Slate who started free then tried a pay wall model failed and had to revert.

But then sites of a more specialist nature have succeeded, like the Wall Street Journal.

Bloggers are over rated, even though some get quite a bit of air time around the place, the statistics in Australia show they have an absolutely tiny readership in proportion to the main outlets. There not competition.

Is that e-mail right? Surely such vulgarity is a typo?

BTW if you ever need an over-sensitive left-wing arts-obsessed person with triffic spelling who hates teamwork, thinks advertising is the devil’s own calling card, and who will murder the entire office within two days, I know where you can find such a being.

harvyk1 said :

That’s why you want to be tapped into the “Airlines giving away your newspaper for free” market. About the only time I ever see people in any decent qty reading the CT – dead tree edition – is sitting on a plane leaving CBR early in the morning. It’s about the last place that the dead tree edition can still claim dominance.

I’m not sure about that! I find it hard to put my claw out for the CT, when I can have The Australian. Yes it’s fascist and dull, but it’s a more worthy read that the fluff and poor English of the CT. When you get back to CBR airport in the evening, there’s still quite a few CTs left in the racks, but no more Australians.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back2:25 pm 18 Jun 12

johnboy said :

In Australia and the UK the big killer is the ABC giving away dull but worthy news.

Good enough if the alternatives cost and the ABC is free.

I actually prefer the ABC (on radio at least, I don’t watch much TV news), because it seems a bit less hyped.

johnboy said :

Broadsheet was meant to denote quality in the absence of quality content.

I’ve long described the Crimes as “a tabloid printed on broadsheet”…

Aaroncbr said :

Dear Lisa, as I write this, I am very sad. Our journalists have been overthrown and REPLACED, BY THE BENEVOLENT GENERAL RINEHART. ALL HAIL RINEHART, AND HER GLORIOUS NEW REGIME. SINCERELY, LITTLE GIRL.

So true…

johnboy said :

if they’d gone tabloid 15 years ago it would have been clever.

now it still won’t save the dead tree newspaper when everyone’s on their phone.

That’s why you want to be tapped into the “Airlines giving away your newspaper for free” market. About the only time I ever see people in any decent qty reading the CT – dead tree edition – is sitting on a plane leaving CBR early in the morning. It’s about the last place that the dead tree edition can still claim dominance.

As for this notion of putting up paywalls, didn’t the various media orgs learn anything from WEB 1.0? (gee I hate that term). Most orgs failed because in “WEB 1.0” they tried to charge the customer in much the same way as you would in the off-line world, and that does not work. For every story in the offline world, you have 20 bloggers in the online world who where actually there writing about their experiences for free.

In Australia and the UK the big killer is the ABC giving away dull but worthy news.

Good enough if the alternatives cost and the ABC is free.

Oops, teach me not to read the full story. Tabloid works much better, and I’m sure one of the main reasons people choose the Herald Sun in the morning in Melbourne is that it is easy to read on the train. Wrestling with a broadsheet on a plane/train/tram is annoying for all concerned.

if they’d gone tabloid 15 years ago it would have been clever.

now it still won’t save the dead tree newspaper when everyone’s on their phone.

eh_steve said :

Since when is the Age tabloid? Pretty sure the edition I read this morning was broadsheet!

4th March, 2013:
http://www.theage.com.au/business/fairfax-to-shed-1900-staff-erect-paywalls-20120618-20ix1.html

Also, does anyone notice that Greg Hywood bares a creepy resemblance to the guy from Hitman:

Hywood: http://www.mediaspy.org/report/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/greghywood-300×234.jpg

Hitman: http://gorillafilmmagazineblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/hitman.jpeg

Come to think of it even the marketing line for the film sounds a bit similar

“A gun-for-hire known only as Agent 47 (Hywood) hired by a group known only as ‘The Organization’ (Fiarfax) is ensnared in a political conspiracy (mining interests).”

eh_steve said :

Since when is the Age tabloid? Pretty sure the edition I read this morning was broadsheet!

You still buy it?

Fairfax is shutting down it’s Sydney and Melbourne printers and will make The Age and SMH the same size as the Financial Review.

Here’s hoping Fairfax get their paywall working better than News Limited’s. I’m onto my 5th free month of a digital subscription to The Australian because some bright spark programmer didn’t bother to set a limit. And even when they patch that, Google still bypasses the paywall.

thehutch said :

Announced this morning that age + smh to become afr size.

Excellent! And page 3 girls too?

They should outsource the CT to that mob who do the little freebie magazine thingy that is half RE ads. That’s not too bad, nice and fluffy. Pretty pictures.

Broadsheet was meant to denote quality in the absence of quality content.

It also had the advantage of being great for publishing big ads.

Dear Lisa, as I write this, I am very sad. Our journalists have been overthrown and REPLACED, BY THE BENEVOLENT GENERAL RINEHART. ALL HAIL RINEHART, AND HER GLORIOUS NEW REGIME. SINCERELY, LITTLE GIRL.

eh_steve said :

Since when is the Age tabloid? Pretty sure the e dition I read this morning was broadsheet!

Announced this morning that age + smh to become afr size. I would like to see them NY times size

Felix the Cat said :

Hope the CT follows the lead of SMH and The Age and go tabloid size instead of broadsheet. I’ve never understood the reasoning behind the larger size.

Broadsheet had the dual purpose of being used to wrap up Friday’s fish and chips at the local Nicks Fish Shop after it had been read. This was back in the days when people got married and good Christians ate fish on Fridays.

Since when is the Age tabloid? Pretty sure the edition I read this morning was broadsheet!

Felix the Cat10:49 am 18 Jun 12

Hope the CT follows the lead of SMH and The Age and go tabloid size instead of broadsheet. I’ve never understood the reasoning behind the larger size.

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