12 June 2009

Canberra enters the Sub-Continental students debacle

| johnboy
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I have no idea if Indian students in Sydney and Melbourne are being targeted for their ethnicity, or just caught up in general breakdown of law and order.

But it’s not much fun to see Canberra now vying for space in the worldwide reporting of the issue.

The Hindu is one of many reporting on an attack in Macquarie on three Sri Lankan students:

    After Indians, a group of students from Sri Lanka have been allegedly attacked in Australia, with three men smashing the windows of their home, taunting them with “racist insults” in Macquarie in north Canberra. It is alleged that the three attacked the house after an unsuccessful attempt to crash a party. The students alleged that a car window was also broken.

    Police were investigating the allegations of attacks, ABC News reported. One of the students, Dijula Wijesuriya, said he had been threatened with a knife. “This guy comes up and takes out a knife and says ‘get out of our streets,’” he said.

One has to wonder what sort of racists try to crash the party first.

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no, vy, was at shauno and, mainly, chris…

was being of course my usual irreverent self in the quip about your remark on comfort with change/difference. vive l’difference, i say (in probably awful french) ; )

Deadmandrinking11:05 am 13 Jun 09

ant said :

I think these people are bullies (of various races) who are picking a soft target to take out their aggression on. Indians tend to be less pugnacious, generally, so these heroes think they’ll be an easy mark. It’d be nice to hear of a few of the bullies getting a good thumping back.

It’d be even nicer to see some of these indian students take a higher moral ground and work towards changes that prevent violence from happening. Of course, they could always bash the Lebanese – that seems to be the standard solution to law and order issues in this country.

On a slightly related but not really note, my workplace has approx 10 employees. Out of the 10, only 2 of us are Australian. Not the ‘flanny wearing, drizabone Australian’, but none of the other 8 are even citizens or have permanent residency. What is with this situation? If I went to a school/workplace in the US, as an Australian citizen, Id expect to cop a bit of flack. To bring up another touche issue, if an Australian moved to the middle east and told the boss they need 4 times a day to go pray to Jesus, I doubt the racial acceptance would be anywhere near what is experienced in Australia.

Also, the OP story.. Ive kinda learnt not to take the word of a single-sided story. Especially from students who were telling their story of a drunken party. Im sure most student-parties have unwanted guests turn up, whether the attendees are of any particular race, sex, age-group.

I think these people are bullies (of various races) who are picking a soft target to take out their aggression on. Indians tend to be less pugnacious, generally, so these heroes think they’ll be an easy mark. It’d be nice to hear of a few of the bullies getting a good thumping back.

Deadmandrinking10:59 am 13 Jun 09

Some of the attacks have been racially motivated, some of the attacks have simply been opportunistic robberies. The perpetrators have been both white and other nationalities.

Indian students are complaining about the high risk for them being attacked in Australia, due to a range of factors, racism being one. The others are mainly economic, since Indian students often have to live in poorer areas to make ends meet.

Either way though, it’s apparent that crime is affecting a valuable import into Australia…and we all know that crime in Sydney and Melbourne is the fault of Justice Higgins and not the DPP or legislation. It’s all his fault, him and his ‘political correctness’ and his ‘education’, his ‘intelligence’ and his ‘reason’ – four words that have destroyed Australia since the 50’s…

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:58 am 13 Jun 09

Oh, and in case you were directing you last post at me, astro, I don’t believe I asserted that travels necessarily makes you more or less racist.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:55 am 13 Jun 09

I’m not really taking a side in this debate, but rather trying to inject the point that ‘racism’ clearly means different things to different people, and that race is, in fact, a legitimate way to classify a human sometimes.

As I said previously, ALL of the Indian women I know seem to be really good cooks. A generalisation? Probably. But so what? I’m still going to eat what they serve up!

I would encourage people to have a think about what racism really means, espcially in the context of aspects that apply to a vast majority of people. Some of these are positive and some are negative. I think we are very quick to jump on anyone who puts forward such an idea, but it isn’t always justified.

that’s an entirely new concept to me, vy – now i’m scared. shall have to seek you out and attack you next you’re in some darkened alley…

chris, jim and justbands (esp the former) were pointing out flaws in shauno’s outrageous post, which did include some generalisations that were unwise and in error. so just what was your point? and i fail to see how a person’s worldly travels ipso facto shields them from racism. a racist can travel, too… the london bobby’s statement was clearly fact and is a non-event of an instance where any racist tones might be elucidated. suggest growing up, or dueling and enjoying the tea and scones (trust the jam accompanying will be fig?)

the thing about these ‘racist’ attacks on subcontinental folk is the media’s almost entire lack of trying to understand why they are occurring. which comes across as if the media do already assume we will understand; but i am flummoxed by these attacks and genuinely can’t fathom what the attackers’ rationale could be. anyone? (and i also heard that the victims of the attack here didn’t make any accusations of racism, which again pricked my radar against the inept media, mssr evil)

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy5:38 am 13 Jun 09

A lot of the racism found in Australia is quite often simply xenophobia… as in FEAR.
Maybe the fear of inadequacy.

A lot of people just aren’t comfortable with the idea of somethng different.

Which is a shame, really.

Its Judge Higgins and his mates, the Hume Hilton, and useless Police, we all have to put up with this mindless thuggery, Stan Nohope can take some credit too, bring back flogging, that will make the thugs think twice. Turn off the heating at the Hume Hilton too.

shauno said :

The thing that annoys me is the Australian press always siding with these Indian students and accusing us of being racists. Well let me be politically incorrect and set a few things straight.

Yes, I did snip the subsequent diatribe… but my question is this: who is “us”?

Is it all people in Australia?
Or is it the “us” as in “us and them”?

A lot of the racism found in Australia is quite often simply xenophobia… as in FEAR.
Maybe the fear of inadequacy.

YMMV.

All this banter has gotten me worked up, who is up for a curry bash to let off some steam? 😛

I challenge you to a duel at sunset. You bring the gloves and pistols.

My manservant will bring the tea and scones for the victor!!

Chris said :

Jim Jones said :

When you can’t attack someone’s argument, you can always attack their character (even if you know absolutely nothing about them).

Well done, Chris.

I commend you for providing a perfect example of what you accused me of doing….I couldn’t have done it better myself.

By the way, I couldn’t find an argument to argue with. Only attacks on shauno’s post, which told me alot about you.

“I know you are you said you are but what am I?”

Well done, sir. Your fine wit and delicate analytical mind have reduced me to naught but a meaningly mote in a god’s eye.

I hesitate to engage with you further, lest you call me a doody-head, or some other fine riposte.

Mr Evil said :

As someone from a racial minority living in Australia, I too know the fear that these students are living in here in Canberra. Where ever I go, there always seem to be people who are quick to judge me by bleating at me and calling me a sheepshagger. Australians should all hang their heads in shame.

I did note that on the news last night the Police told the ABC that they were aware of this incident, but allegedly at no stage had the complainants actually mentioned that the attacks were racially motivated……..

I wouldn’t call Kiwi’s a racial minority!

As someone from a racial minority living in Australia, I too know the fear that these students are living in here in Canberra. Where ever I go, there always seem to be people who are quick to judge me by bleating at me and calling me a sheepshagger. Australians should all hang their heads in shame.

I did note that on the news last night the Police told the ABC that they were aware of this incident, but allegedly at no stage had the complainants actually mentioned that the attacks were racially motivated……..

Jim Jones said :

When you can’t attack someone’s argument, you can always attack their character (even if you know absolutely nothing about them).

Well done, Chris.

I commend you for providing a perfect example of what you accused me of doing….I couldn’t have done it better myself.

By the way, I couldn’t find an argument to argue with. Only attacks on shauno’s post, which told me alot about you.

+ 1 Jim. You know nothing of me or my travels Chris.

When you can’t attack someone’s argument, you can always attack their character (even if you know absolutely nothing about them).

Well done, Chris.

Justbands and Jim Jones….you are the sort of pompous politically correct ignoramous’ that sit behind a tv or a desk passing judgement on the world based purely on the verbal diarrhea you lap up from the equally politically correct, sensationalist and unethical reporters in this country.

Unlike you, shauno has traveled the world many times over and worked in several different continents with people of all nationalities….I’d hardly call him a racist.

Im watching a police documentary on Foxtel right now where a London police officer states ” most of the suspects we speak to are black”. Fact or racism?

I could come up with lots of similar statements that are fact, that would more than likely make you snort and cough in disbelief. There are lots of generalisations that can be made about certain groups wether it be racial or by someother measure….and not all of those are racist.

It is all too easy to brand someone a racist when its just too hard to look at the real facts and when its so easy to sit in your lounge chair and be drip fed total crap by the media.

You have both chosen the easy option.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy12:44 pm 12 Jun 09

That is, it would be factually correct to describe the attackers as members of group X.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy12:43 pm 12 Jun 09

Further to post #17, I think we get way too worried about some of this stuff. Racism is a terrible thing, but we seem to have developed a pathological fear of describing racial characteristics.

If, for the sake of example, all the attacks on Indian students referred to recently were carried out by members of another racial group, then it would be factually correct to describe the attackers as .

Of course, it’s a slippery slope, and we love calling each other bigots rather than trying to get to the real issue.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

So taking issue with statements such as “the real culprits in this are not the Caucasian’s but the middle eastern immigrants which doesn’t surprise me” or “Indians are all racist, rude and arrogant” is … oversensitive?

No,
but just like shauno was generalising, so are you.

I don’t understand what you’re on about.

How was I generalising? And why is generalisation so bad anyway? And what the hell does any of this have to do with anything anyway?

Jim Jones said :

So taking issue with statements such as “the real culprits in this are not the Caucasian’s but the middle eastern immigrants which doesn’t surprise me” or “Indians are all racist, rude and arrogant” is … oversensitive?

No,
but just like shauno was generalising, so are you.

if the nationality of the party goers was ignored, it could have been any suburban disturbance. the moment that their race is mentioned, it is all about racism.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Oh johnboy, you’re just too “politically correct”.

I love that phrase, you can use it to justify being racist, sexist – hell, just about any form of bigotry you’d care to name.

Somebody doesn’t like your jokes about the Holocaust or Aboriginals? Tell them to stop being so damn “politically correct”.

Just like oversensitive people call everyone “sexist” or “racist” or “bigot” at the drop of a hat?

So taking issue with statements such as “the real culprits in this are not the Caucasian’s but the middle eastern immigrants which doesn’t surprise me” or “Indians are all racist, rude and arrogant” is … oversensitive?

so the 3 people tried to unsuccessfully crash a party, became agitated and broke windows on the house and car, then threatened one of the party goers with a knife?

must have been a really good party – they were very determined to get in…

Jim Jones, It must be hard to walk down the street being you. Adios!

Jim Jones said :

Oh johnboy, you’re just too “politically correct”.

I love that phrase, you can use it to justify being racist, sexist – hell, just about any form of bigotry you’d care to name.

Somebody doesn’t like your jokes about the Holocaust or Aboriginals? Tell them to stop being so damn “politically correct”.

Just like oversensitive people call everyone “sexist” or “racist” or “bigot” at the drop of a hat?

Oh johnboy, you’re just too “politically correct”.

I love that phrase, you can use it to justify being racist, sexist – hell, just about any form of bigotry you’d care to name.

Somebody doesn’t like your jokes about the Holocaust or Aboriginals? Tell them to stop being so damn “politically correct”.

Ok, let’s all stop trying to redefine racists and name calling please.

So its to politically incorrect for you to mention yep that’s what I thought.

> So justbands are you saying it wasn’t Lebanese gangs involved in this particularly in Sydney???

I’m not saying anything about it…I’m saying you are a racist, which you are. I have no time for racists…so, bye!

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:35 am 12 Jun 09

Just to throw a curveball into the mix, does classifying the overwhelming majority of people in a given cultural group based on a single characteristic quality as racism.

For example, we have a few Indian friends, and WITHOUT EXCEPTION the women are damn good cooks (by my standard).

Shauno, i think it was the “Which doesn’t surprise me” part of your comment.

So justbands are you saying it wasn’t Lebanese gangs involved in this particularly in Sydney???

It’s gotta be a troll. No-one could be that stupid and still manage to use a keyboard.

“Mr. Wijesuriya said they had been living in fear, especially considering the recent violence against Indian students in Sydney and Melbourne. “We really don’t go anywhere, we just stay at home, just go to university and come back home straight away and lock the doors and stay inside.”

WTF??

Wow Canberra is hardcore, there must be racist gangs everywhere targetting people from the sub-continent.

> It seems as though the real culprits in this are not the Caucasian’s but the middle eastern immigrants which doesn’t surprise me.

Wow…why not throw in yet another racist remark shauno! You are a racist. That’s not a generalisation. I’m talking specifically about you…racist.

It seems as though the real culprits in this are not the Caucasian’s but the middle eastern immigrants which doesn’t surprise me.

I’m just presenting another point of view and they are calling us racist we’ll I think they should have a good look in their own back yard before generalizing about Australia.

shauno said :

it just annoys me that the Australian press is always so quick to criticize our own country

Got any examples of this?

shauno said :

And then the society is to politically correct that you cant stand up there and say things that might be seen to offend a minority group even its true and just stating a fact.

So, you’re not allowed to say things like ‘the Indians are all rude and arrogant’, like post #2, right? That’s just an outrage, why should the media flinch from ‘just stating a fact’ like that?

Maybe it’s just me shauno…but I’ve always done ok by taking people as they come. Regardless of race (aren’t we all human in any case?), sex, religion, sexual preference, hair colour, whatever….some people are fantastic, some are ok & some are complete ar$eh0les. I refuse to ever say things like “Indians are far more racist then Australians” or “they never say please and thank you”. It’s labelling masses of people in a certain way based on their country of birth/ethnic background…that’s racism!

shauno said :

The thing that annoys me is the Australian press always siding with these Indian students and accusing us of being racists. Well let me be politically incorrect and set a few things straight.

Are you suggesting that, contrary to popular belief (and all the evidence), racist Indian students are actually randomly attacking Caucasian on the street?

If not, WTF is the point of your post? I haven’t seen you draw any link between class (or caste) structures and racism.

All I’m hearing is you whining about how bad the Indians are. In a post about racism, that’s remarkably stupid.

Its just my observations here and it really stands out. All my colleagues are in agreement and it just annoys me that the Australian press is always so quick to criticize our own country which is then picked up negatively by the worlds press. And then the society is to politically correct that you cant stand up there and say things that might be seen to offend a minority group even its true and just stating a fact.

If you remove the word ‘racist’ from ‘racist insults’, it reads like any other forced entry.

But the idea of deserving ‘special protection’ when “The protesters alleged that police were ignoring their pleas for protection”…
Being part of a group wealthy enough to leave behind your inherited-class cultured home and going to live in what it is an egalitarian society is fine, so long as you realise that instead of the treatment your special status afforded you in the old country, you’ll be treated as equally as everyone else.

Culture shock is a bitch.

> Discrimination either way you look at it though..

It is, yes. Just making the point that it is different to racism though. shaunos post is what I call racism… .”they do this”, “they do that”, “they’re arrogant”.

That’s not racism…that’s being “classest” (or whatever the word is).

The thing that annoys me is the Australian press always siding with these Indian students and accusing us of being racists. Well let me be politically incorrect and set a few things straight.

I work In India often and I’m writing this now in the pre monsoon heat in the state of Gujarat. And have to say the Indians are far more racist then Australians they have the cast system here and million of people are treated worse then dogs.

They also have a habit of never saying please and thank you and are extremely arrogant. For example on the flights after we land If one them wants to get off the plane first they have no problem at all with barging past you in the isle with no excuse me or anything. They will also reach over and take your newly bought magazine or even book from the your seat pocket and start reading it without asking. Its really a class orientated society and if your not in the upper classes then your dirt simple as that.

> One has to wonder what sort of racists try to crash the party first.

Your average racist isn’t known for being overly smart.

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