Canberra youth to learn the Huawei way...

Robertson said :

Our side doesn’t farm human organs from political prisoners. Get it?

Interesting where some people draw the line. Summary execution by drone, that’s OK. Go in after and see if there are any useful organs in the wreckage, whoa too far not OK.

Robertson said :

If you imagine it is possible to do anything much that’s interesting in the IT industry without a security clearance, then you have a good imagination indeed.

If you define “interesting” as requiring a security clearance then, by definition, you won’t. If you define “interesting” as holding the attention or curiosity then there are plenty of interesting IT jobs that don’t need a security clearance. Microsoft runs a large research lab in China I’m sure they’d be happy to talk.

LSWCHP said :

Do you really think that someone would sacrifice their career and freedom (ala Bradley Manning) in order to satisfy your desire for referenced evidence on RA? Not me. Just carry on in dreamland bro.

Nose tapping is the best you’ll get in this arena. If you choose to ignore the nose action, well that’s your choice and good on you, but stuff may happen. Refer to the advice at the bottom of post #20 for an example. Robertson seems to be a realist, and have some understanding of the situation.

In the meantime Google is your friend.

I’m under no delusions about China’s IT espionage, and the idea of China intelligence importing two IT undergrads with the intent of trying to recruit them in the space of three weeks seems utterly redundant. China’s cyberspace espionage is hardly cloak-and-dagger; it’s on an industrial scale that swamps its targets and is renowned for its brazenness, and often accomplished through techniques as simple and obvious as phishing.

Our situation is further compromised by the fact our economic relations with China in the current global economic climate are so one-sided that that our recourse is limited in the event of a diplomatic incident involving IT espionage. They don’t care if they’re caught, so why piss around with such convoluted covert pretence?

The horse bolted long ago. Exchanges, job websites, and fellowships between our alumni and China have been going on for years. Not to mention the large number of Chinese nationals residing in Australia, whose mobilisation was clearly demonstrated during the passage of the Olympic flame in Canberra.

And there is always the possibility that our students might bring home some knowledge.

Postalgeek said :

Robertson said :

Postalgeek said :

We’ve had Chinese students coming to Australia for years, and studying for years at a time. If China wants to open a covert dialogue with someone, is there a rule that it must happen in China?

And preventing our students from studying in China for three weeks is going to accomplish what?

Let’s refer you to posts #3 & #15.

If you imagine it is possible to do anything much that’s interesting in the IT industry without a security clearance, then you have a good imagination indeed.

Idioms might answer complex issues for you, but they don’t answer complex issues for me.

Refer me to a logical, informed argument against it, with referenced evidence, and I might be swayed, but referring me to nose tapping and slogans doesn’t cut it.

Do you really think that someone would sacrifice their career and freedom (ala Bradley Manning) in order to satisfy your desire for referenced evidence on RA? Not me. Just carry on in dreamland bro.

Nose tapping is the best you’ll get in this arena. If you choose to ignore the nose action, well that’s your choice and good on you, but stuff may happen. Refer to the advice at the bottom of post #20 for an example. Robertson seems to be a realist, and have some understanding of the situation.

In the meantime Google is your friend.

Don’t Huawei make most of the mobile phone towers in Australia? I’m sure they don’t need to recruit a bunch of school kids to do their dirty work.

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

If you think the US and UK are happily going down the path of freedom and democracy, you’d be seriously mistaken. They’re both at a cross roads but its as plain as day that they’re both heading for totalitarianism. The US more rapidly than the UK.

I’m trying to get a handle on your argument – you’re unhappy with the policy direction of certain western democracies, therefore unutterably corrupt and murderous totalitarian states are OK?

Do you have a twin, or are you the one that comes to our weekly section meeting to regale us with a long-winded babble of illogical non-sequiturs?

Whilst the technology doesn’t quite exist yet to post in pop-up book form, I’ll do my best to explain it for you.

Its the old “Oh, we’d never do that!”

A regime that kidnaps people, tortures them and imprisons them with no legal recourse. “Oh, we’d never do that! But when we do, its extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation techniques and imprisonment for the worst of the worst that don’t deserve rights.”

A regime that kills people outright with no due process IE assassinations. “Oh, we’d never do that! But when it happens, we’re sure they deserved it. If they didn’t then its collateral damage. Those terrorists hide among the population. Its for your safety”

Creating a profit around imprisoning people. “Oh, we’d never do that! But its for the protection of the community. So what if the US has 5 percent of the world’s population but a quarter of its prisoners.”

A regime monitors its civilians, constantly and always. “Oh, we’d never do that! But when it happens, its indirect, its by accident, its stopped terror attacks and it keeps you safe!”

You’re either foolish or ignorant if you think that things are only going to improve in that respect. The powers granted after 9/11 and since, they haven’t been rescinded and doubtful that they ever will because its for ‘protection’. The US and UK aren’t quite at the level of some of the worst regimes but they’re certainly not pure as the driven snow either. They’re well on their way.

OK students for your homework this weekend, I want a complete list of username and passwords from any two companies on the approved teacher’s list.

Robertson said :

Postalgeek said :

We’ve had Chinese students coming to Australia for years, and studying for years at a time. If China wants to open a covert dialogue with someone, is there a rule that it must happen in China?

And preventing our students from studying in China for three weeks is going to accomplish what?

Let’s refer you to posts #3 & #15.

If you imagine it is possible to do anything much that’s interesting in the IT industry without a security clearance, then you have a good imagination indeed.

Idioms might answer complex issues for you, but they don’t answer complex issues for me.

Refer me to a logical, informed argument against it, with referenced evidence, and I might be swayed, but referring me to nose tapping and slogans doesn’t cut it.

Dilandach said :

If you think the US and UK are happily going down the path of freedom and democracy, you’d be seriously mistaken. They’re both at a cross roads but its as plain as day that they’re both heading for totalitarianism. The US more rapidly than the UK.

I’m trying to get a handle on your argument – you’re unhappy with the policy direction of certain western democracies, therefore unutterably corrupt and murderous totalitarian states are OK?

Do you have a twin, or are you the one that comes to our weekly section meeting to regale us with a long-winded babble of illogical non-sequiturs?

Postalgeek said :

We’ve had Chinese students coming to Australia for years, and studying for years at a time. If China wants to open a covert dialogue with someone, is there a rule that it must happen in China?

And preventing our students from studying in China for three weeks is going to accomplish what?

Let’s refer you to posts #3 & #15.

If you imagine it is possible to do anything much that’s interesting in the IT industry without a security clearance, then you have a good imagination indeed.

54-11 said :

Jeez, xenophobic much, some of you? Who bugged the Chinese embassy here in Canberra a few years ago? Who is eaves-dropping on every phone, internet, text and other messages in the world? How did Obama know who fired the sarin missiles and from where and who?

No one is safe from our side, so how much worse could the other mob be?

Our side doesn’t farm human organs from political prisoners. Get it?
Our side – however imperfect – are the good guys.
The other guys are pretty bad.

We’ve had Chinese students coming to Australia for years, and studying for years at a time. If China wants to open a covert dialogue with someone, is there a rule that it must happen in China?

And preventing our students from studying in China for three weeks is going to accomplish what?

Jeez, xenophobic much, some of you? Who bugged the Chinese embassy here in Canberra a few years ago? Who is eaves-dropping on every phone, internet, text and other messages in the world? How did Obama know who fired the sarin missiles and from where and who?

No one is safe from our side, so how much worse could the other mob be?

Robertson said :

Dilandach said :

magiccar9 said :

Good work Katy, lets all jump into bed with the PLA. Why don’t you just send over classified government documents in the carry-on luggage of your prized students- save Huawei the trouble.
I would imagine that there is a fairly solid reason most of the governments world-wide are hesitant beyond belief of this company, but I guess you must have missed that memo – either that or they’re throwing too much cash at you for you to care.

Same thing happens at ‘freedom loving’ country borders too and in some cases worse than less than democratic countries.

The day the USA starts to farm organs from political prisoners is the day I will start considering there is any equivalence between our democratic allies and the totalitarians on the other side.

If you think the US and UK are happily going down the path of freedom and democracy, you’d be seriously mistaken. They’re both at a cross roads but its as plain as day that they’re both heading for totalitarianism. The US more rapidly than the UK.

It will be interesting to see if this has any impact on future security vetting of these lucky few.

A word to the wise? Go back and read post 3.

Dilandach said :

magiccar9 said :

Good work Katy, lets all jump into bed with the PLA. Why don’t you just send over classified government documents in the carry-on luggage of your prized students- save Huawei the trouble.
I would imagine that there is a fairly solid reason most of the governments world-wide are hesitant beyond belief of this company, but I guess you must have missed that memo – either that or they’re throwing too much cash at you for you to care.

Same thing happens at ‘freedom loving’ country borders too and in some cases worse than less than democratic countries.

The day the USA starts to farm organs from political prisoners is the day I will start considering there is any equivalence between our democratic allies and the totalitarians on the other side.

Don’t mention Tienanmen Square. Not surprised a Greens/Labor government is getting in bed with the commos. It’s more than just chow mien at the local Golden Dragon, Katy…

magiccar9 said :

Good work Katy, lets all jump into bed with the PLA. Why don’t you just send over classified government documents in the carry-on luggage of your prized students- save Huawei the trouble.
I would imagine that there is a fairly solid reason most of the governments world-wide are hesitant beyond belief of this company, but I guess you must have missed that memo – either that or they’re throwing too much cash at you for you to care.

I guess you dont use one of those phones or computers manufactured in China that, obviously, contains systems allowing the Chinese government to read and listen to everything.

Sending 4 students to visit a factory somehow doesnt quite equal allowing a chinese company to get your secrets. If concerned, send dumb students.

magiccar9 said :

Good work Katy, lets all jump into bed with the PLA. Why don’t you just send over classified government documents in the carry-on luggage of your prized students- save Huawei the trouble.
I would imagine that there is a fairly solid reason most of the governments world-wide are hesitant beyond belief of this company, but I guess you must have missed that memo – either that or they’re throwing too much cash at you for you to care.

Same thing happens at ‘freedom loving’ country borders too and in some cases worse than less than democratic countries.

Good work Katy, lets all jump into bed with the PLA. Why don’t you just send over classified government documents in the carry-on luggage of your prized students- save Huawei the trouble.
I would imagine that there is a fairly solid reason most of the governments world-wide are hesitant beyond belief of this company, but I guess you must have missed that memo – either that or they’re throwing too much cash at you for you to care.

PoQ said :

I won’t get a better forum for my tinfoil hat theory, so here goes: Huawei was banned, not because their routers were compromised by the PLA, but because they weren’t compromised by the NSA.

I would have thought that in a post-Snowden world you wouldn’t need a tinfoil hat. Given the NSA’s incompetence at security the Chinese probably no longer need to install their own back-door they can just hook into the existing NSA one.

PoQ said :

I won’t get a better forum for my tinfoil hat theory, so here goes: Huawei was banned, not because their routers were compromised by the PLA, but because they weren’t compromised by the NSA.

A not-unreasonable assumption.

PoQ said :

I won’t get a better forum for my tinfoil hat theory, so here goes: Huawei was banned, not because their routers were compromised by the PLA, but because they weren’t compromised by the NSA.

Bingo and Snap. Moral of the story is that our so called partners in the global community (“allies”) have just as much respect for us as a country as those that we havent signed all our rights away to.

I for one welcome our Chinese masters. As long as they don’t hurt us or our families tooooo much. Or treat us like Tibet, or Xinjiang.

PoQ said :

but because they weren’t compromised by the NSA.

Pfft.
Next thing you’ll be claiming is that NSA taps millions of calls without any warrant or legal process.

A word to the wise.

Don’t do it.

So Huawei is interested in cultivating the Commonwealth Public Service Network engineers of the future, are they?

Is having the AEC in the bag not enough for them?

I won’t get a better forum for my tinfoil hat theory, so here goes: Huawei was banned, not because their routers were compromised by the PLA, but because they weren’t compromised by the NSA.