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Clea Rose hit and run passenger gets 18 months

johnboy 10 April 2006 27

The ABC is reporting that A 13-year-old boy from the Canberra suburb of Mackellar has been sentenced to 18 months in detention for riding in the stolen car that struck and killed Canberra University student Clea Rose.

Seems like a hard but fair penalty for an accomplice?


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Thumper 8:13 pm 12 Apr 06

Should I add that i know a guy, a mate of my old man’s who served with him for a long time, who was an anti war protester in the 60s, a total loser going nowhere but the grave, who was conscripted, put his head down and worked hard knowing he was given a chance, sent to Vietnam, and was awarded a DFC in combat as a chopper pilot.

He’s one of the nicest, most genuine, most level headed, compassionate and socially aware people that you could ever meet. A veritable pillar of sociaty if you want cliches.

In fact, I’m proud to know the guy.

End of rant.

Thumper 8:06 pm 12 Apr 06

Schemerica,

Exactly. Give these kids a chance. If they make it, then they will be fine. If they fuck up, then let the law come down on them like a tonne of bricks.

Attitudes can be changed in some circumstances. I’ve dug trenches and sat on gun piquet at 0300 with guys that were absolute fuck ups before they enlisted. I trusted them implicitly simply because I’d seen them in training and they put it in.

They had found something they could do, they believed in, and moreso, others believed in them.

True, this will not apply to everyone, but in the end, if you can find an outlet or a conduit for these kids that is going to make them into valuable and worthy members of society then it is worth pursuing that path.

However, if that is not going to work, then fuck them. Put them away. I have no sympathy for those who refuse to help themselves. If you are given an opportunity then you have a choice. You take it or you don’t.

Everyone is responsible for their own lives. What path you choose is up to only one person, the individual.

Joining the Army may not be the solution, but it’s got to better than being on the dole and being a social misfit all your life.

A true case. I went back through Kapooka in 1999. One of the guys in my room was ex Navy. He told me that he was fucked up, taking drugs and generally being a social misfit when he was about 25.

Then he saw a Navy recruiting poster and said to himself, ‘I’m going no where, I’m a fuck up, I need to do something’.

Thus walked into recruiting and said I want to enlist.

He spent 7 or 8 years in the Navy, saw active service in the Gulf, discharged, and then enlisted as a assualt trooper in the Army.

In his early life he was a schmuck. Scum of the earth. I would not have pissed on him if he was on fire. Now he is a Sgt with a APC Sqn and a top bloke who would be wiling to do anything for you.

Maybe it’s rare that this happens, but at least it gives some people the direction they need to get ahead and to be someone within their own minds.

We cannot ignore crims. They must be rehabilitated. If they can’t then so be it, put them behind bars forever. Put simply if they fuck up, hammer them. Given this, however, every chance must be given.

I rest my case.

schmerica 6:12 pm 12 Apr 06

I think with the whole army thing is that they would channel their poor attitudes and hopefully give them a wake up call.

nyssa76 5:57 pm 12 Apr 06

Thumper and Mael, I’m with you 100%.

Idiots like those should be locked up – and for longer than 18 months.

Personally, I’d like for them to never see the light of day but that’s just my opinion.

I’ll be watching the news in 18 months time to see if the little “darlings” have reoffended.

I wouldn’t put it past them. They’ve literally gotten away with murder.

Thumper 5:08 pm 12 Apr 06

Thanks Mael,

As I was in Sydney I couldn’t reply. However, we both know that the military wil take anyone that they think they can turn into a good soldier.

And we both know that you don’t get anywhere near a live weapon until they are completely and utterly satisfied that you are perfectly competent and not going to turn around and brass up your platoon.

Fuck some people have no idea.

Absent Diane 10:00 am 12 Apr 06

You can only hope DVD….

DVD 11:46 pm 11 Apr 06

a ‘hard and fair’ punishment would be 18 years, no parole. 18 months mostly suspended is indeed a pathetic sentence. Best case scenario next time this turd does a runner from the cops he kills himself and his mates and no one else.

Binker 4:19 pm 11 Apr 06

It is a fact that you see people “lying bleeding on the ground” however this does not equate with an increase in the crime rate that would lead to the conclusion “we are the new America”. Just because you see something more often on the TV (your assertion) does not mean it occurs more often in the world (or in Australia).
“… people lying bleeding on the ground on Australian soil isn’t statistics, it’s fact.” It is a fact but not one that can lead you to legitimately suggest that there is an increase in crime. There have always been “people lying bleeding on the ground”, it is just that TV now brings them into our homes.
Don’t judge the world by the frequency particular images are presented on TV (otherwise it would be a proven fact that drinking alcohol makes you sexually irresistible).

Maelinar 4:06 pm 11 Apr 06

Binker, my impression comes from what I see on the telly.

In 1986 all you saw on tv was cricket or afl anyway
In 1996 all you saw was Americans shooting themselves up, be it at schools or elsewhere
In 2006 all I seem to see is Australians shooting themselves up

It may only be a reporting trend, however my perception is that people lying bleeding on the ground on Australian soil isn’t statistics, it’s fact.

Binker 3:24 pm 11 Apr 06

Mael
Your suggestion that “we are the new America” is somewhat at odds with the stats for example:
For NSW
Over the 24 months to December 2005, the recorded incidence of:
Robbery with a firearm fell 26.7 per cent
Break and enter dwelling fell 11.0 per cent
Break and enter non-dwelling fell 7.8 per cent
Motor vehicle theft fell 12.4 per cent
Steal from a motor vehicle fell 9.0 per cent
Steal from a dwelling fell 5.4 per cent
Steal from the person fell 12.5 per cent

NSW stats from Beuro of Crime Statistics and Research (http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/pages/bocsar_mr_rcs05)

Full report can be found here (http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/RCS05.pdf/$file/RCS05.pdf)

In general crime is falling, however the “if it bleeds it leads” philosophy of most news services may account for your mistake.

Maelinar 3:21 pm 11 Apr 06

**Disclaimer**

The police would be called first, they may request military assistance if desired.

Maelinar 3:08 pm 11 Apr 06

NO trainee in the military is given access to hardware until their instructional staff are COMPLETELY satisfied that they will not do anything stupid with it.

I won’t get into the process involved in getting them there, but it involves discipline, self respect, and in certain individuals, reprogramming.

Turning potential pipe-bombers into soldiers is a delicate and hazardous task, and the military should be increasing the time they take rather than decreasing the time it takes to convert playstation hitmen into soldiers (as well as loosening the restrictions in place due to onerous OH&S and diversity and legislation and prettyboy suicide horrified parents creating storms in teacups) – within reason of course. The outcomes will be even more professionally trained soldiers, who are more rigidly focussed, and capable of doing their tasks without further training (and I daresay, an improved retention level).

The military have been accepting people from dubious backgrounds since several tribesmen picked up clubs and organised a fight against the neighbouring village, so no issues there; in a way, they’ve been waiting for them to arrive.

Annie, I watched the news last night horrified. From beatings with knives and other weapons in Brisbane, to driveby shootings in Sydney, all by (alleged of course) juvenile delinquents. We are the new America, wait for the pipe-bombings and mass killings to start within the school system.

Teaching a motivated and trained soldier how to use a weapon has nothing at all to do with the above situation, although you may rest assured that they are there, waiting to be called in, to help get your precious little Johnny off the water tower after he’s gone postal and started shooting up everybody in sight.

In the trade, we call it pink mist.

Mike 1:19 pm 11 Apr 06

TV & the internet teach juvenile delinquents how to handle weapons. At least the military puts their use into perspective.

annie 11:29 am 11 Apr 06

No, I’m not advocating leaving them alone Thumper. It IS their fault – and the fault of their stupid parents.

I think anything that teaches someone who’s drowning like these kids obviously are a bit of self respect, and gives them direction and discipline is fantastic.

I just don’t think we should teach juvenile delinquents how to handle weapons, that’s all.

wonsworld 11:00 am 11 Apr 06

Just coming back on subject for a second, I think the sentence should take into consideration his situation at the time of the crime. That is to say, was he held captive at the time the car was stolen? Did he plead with the driver to abandon the chase and give them selves up to the police? Or (more than likely) was he a willing accomplice who never considered that the stealing, the joy ride and the resulting police chase would lead to the death of a young girl?

If he was a willing accomplice at the time of the accident, then the sentence should be as harsh as if he was driving the car himself.

Absent Diane 10:57 am 11 Apr 06

Unfortunately there is no easy solution for something like this other than restricting the type of people that can have kids…. for which there are so many positives… the only negative is that deprives people of their civil liberties… but I personally don’t give a fuck if these lower class swine are treated as such….

Mr_Shab 10:41 am 11 Apr 06

Thumper – won’t this create a repeat of the Vietnam era Regs vs. Nashos situation – only worse?

I agree a short, sharp shock like basic at Kapooka would be great for some of these kids, but what about the other recruits? Would they question the committment of a “army or goal” recruit? Morale in the services is bad enough already.

I know a lot of the guys who sign up aren’t angels, but they’re not convicted crims (well…not usually).

Thumper 10:28 am 11 Apr 06

Annie,

I was talking about the self discipline, the drive, the enthusiasm, the team work, the mateship, the sense of worth and achievement that going through a simple recruit course can give to these kids.

I’ve seen absolute fuck up schmucks with no skills, no sense, no self respect, and no clue, go through Kapooka and come out the other side full of pride, skills and self respect.

In fact, they come out believing they are someone and can do something with their lives. Apart from that the pay is prety good.

And you are advocating what? Leave the poor little darlings, its not their fault.

bullshit.

Wake up to the world. There’s many things that make it work. If this is a solution to a problem then why not try it. Let the little pricks get beasted by their seccos. It will do them good. it also gives them a choice in life, gaol or Army, which one.

If it doesn’t work then they can always get out. if it does work, then you’ve rehabilitated a kid who previously had no chance. look outside the square now and then.

I know what I’d take.

Mr_Shab 10:13 am 11 Apr 06

It’ll work for some of them. I’m sure there’s an element that will thrive in an environment of structure and discipline that they previously lacked, and would make great soldiers.

However, I’m pretty sure that most of them will cause more trouble than they’re worth; and will be resented by the other recruits, who are there for all the right reasons. Not to mention the poor bloody NCO’s who are going to have to keep the little buggers in line.

Either that or create a Soviet-style “penal batalion” and throw them at German machine guns.

Wait…that won’t work either…

annie 10:00 am 11 Apr 06

LurkerGal, I used to be married to an army private, so I know the drill there (excuse the pun). And you’re right: discipline and self-respect are paramount.

My point is that I think the defence force is for people who love their country and already have some basic self-esteem and desire to contribute.

Putting these delinquent kids in the army is not going to work unless you address their self-destructiveness FIRST. Otherwise you’re just going to make things worse.

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