Corporate fit and attitude equals discrimination by Canberra recruiting firms.

Overheard said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Oh dear. I think this might actually be someone’s racist grandfather.

And the word is “its” accuracy. Best be brushing up on them English language skills, bozo.

Yeah, I can’t believe I made a typo on my mobile phone when it autocorrected. Totally refutes my point.

Here’s a simple start on stereotyping from the font of all knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

I’ve never suggested that people of other races or nationalities are inferior or superior to others. I’ve given a reason why people may stereotype on foreign souding names and why it may be an efficient way of filtering potential applicants based on the skill sets needed by potential businesses.

As I’ve said, it’s not fair but it’s understandable and I don’t think any amount of well meaning indoctrination will change it.

Oh and for the record, the last three people I hired came from India, China and Bangladesh. Two of them used anglicised names when applying for the jobs and one used their real, extremely foreign sounding name. Damn me and my racist hide.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Hah – there’s no ‘game’ here. And there’s clearly no point in logical ‘argument’. Have a look at some of the posts:

– it’s okay to chuck out resumes because people have funny names (because they’d be people what couldn’t talk Inglish and stuff)
– Wogs don’t get along with us (therefore we shouldn’t hire them)
– Muslims are terrorists and are ruining the country
– Other countries are way more racist than us (so it’s okay to be just a little bit racist, you know)
– and so it goes

Sometimes reading the posts in here is like eavesdropping on someone’s racist grandfather. Funny and sickening all at the same time (not entirely unlike a brutally murdered clown).

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

It’s probably more worthwhile to have all potential job applicants be thoroughly examined by a phrenologist.

I’ve sometimes wondered about this sort of thing. In my case, I won’t employ people who don’t have acceptable spoken and written business English skills, and it doesn’t matter what their name sounds like. Admittedly this will filter out a lot of NESB folks, but it also filters out a lot of ESB people as well.

I’m continually amazed by how many people (with or without Anglo sounding names) submit crap job applications that are littered with typographical errors, misspellings, completely garbled paragraphs that have blown up due to incorrect cut-and-paste etc etc. They all go into the “no thanks” bin.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Oh dear. I think this might actually be someone’s racist grandfather.

And the word is “its” accuracy. Best be brushing up on them English language skills, bozo.

chewy14 said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Ahh a defence of racism. Quite rare in this day and age.

Jim Jones said :

Hah – there’s no ‘game’ here. And there’s clearly no point in logical ‘argument’. Have a look at some of the posts:

– it’s okay to chuck out resumes because people have funny names (because they’d be people what couldn’t talk Inglish and stuff)
– Wogs don’t get along with us (therefore we shouldn’t hire them)
– Muslims are terrorists and are ruining the country
– Other countries are way more racist than us (so it’s okay to be just a little bit racist, you know)
– and so it goes

Sometimes reading the posts in here is like eavesdropping on someone’s racist grandfather. Funny and sickening all at the same time (not entirely unlike a brutally murdered clown).

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

But to be honest, which migrant with less than 5 years English under their belt does have a perfect Australian / English (the language) accent except for the English speaking countries.

MightyJoe said :

No, She is clear and concise in her language skills. She is however dark skinned and obviously doesn’t have an Australian accent..

No, She is clear and concise in her language skills. She is however dark skinned and obviously doesn’t have an Australian accent..

Mysteryman said :

MightyJoe said :

Sorry, I used to think this way (as i was born here) but I have a weird non-anglo name, never had any problems.

My wife wasn’t born here and only came to Australia after I brought her here.. She experiences racism everyday at her work.. retail.. upper class establishment (there’s no other store….)

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

Worse thing is my wife has worked very hard to learn English and then put it into use.

I used to tell her that Australia was one of the least racist countries, but even I have changed my tune after hearing and seeing some of things my fellow Ostrayliaans do to her.

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

Is it possible that the customers go to the “anglo shop assistant” because they simply can’t understand your wife?

MightyJoe said :

Sorry, I used to think this way (as i was born here) but I have a weird non-anglo name, never had any problems.

My wife wasn’t born here and only came to Australia after I brought her here.. She experiences racism everyday at her work.. retail.. upper class establishment (there’s no other store….)

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

Worse thing is my wife has worked very hard to learn English and then put it into use.

I used to tell her that Australia was one of the least racist countries, but even I have changed my tune after hearing and seeing some of things my fellow Ostrayliaans do to her.

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

Is it possible that the customers go to the “anglo shop assistant” because they simply can’t understand your wife?

Anna Key said :

I’d employ her – an aboriginal lesbian aged 40+ would be great for the EEO stats come Annual Report time.

Not that it matters, but just to clarify, I have several co-workers. The lesbian with the European name is not the same person as the Aboriginal with the Anglo name.

Sorry, I used to think this way (as i was born here) but I have a weird non-anglo name, never had any problems.

My wife wasn’t born here and only came to Australia after I brought her here.. She experiences racism everyday at her work.. retail.. upper class establishment (there’s no other store….)

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

Worse thing is my wife has worked very hard to learn English and then put it into use.

I used to tell her that Australia was one of the least racist countries, but even I have changed my tune after hearing and seeing some of things my fellow Ostrayliaans do to her.

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Lol. Same old suspects defending discrimination and bigotry. What a surprise!

I freely admit I’m all for discrimination. Especially of people who make generalised comments accusing others of bigotry without providing examples or even the beginnings of an argument. C’mon Jim, lift your game.

Hah – there’s no ‘game’ here. And there’s clearly no point in logical ‘argument’. Have a look at some of the posts:

– it’s okay to chuck out resumes because people have funny names (because they’d be people what couldn’t talk Inglish and stuff)
– Wogs don’t get along with us (therefore we shouldn’t hire them)
– Muslims are terrorists and are ruining the country
– Other countries are way more racist than us (so it’s okay to be just a little bit racist, you know)
– and so it goes

Sometimes reading the posts in here is like eavesdropping on someone’s racist grandfather. Funny and sickening all at the same time (not entirely unlike a brutally murdered clown).

Jim Jones said :

Lol. Same old suspects defending discrimination and bigotry. What a surprise!

I freely admit I’m all for discrimination. Especially of people who make generalised comments accusing others of bigotry without providing examples or even the beginnings of an argument. C’mon Jim, lift your game.

Jim Jones said :

Lol. Same old suspects defending discrimination and bigotry. What a surprise!

I don’t know, an Old White Men Only club does sound pretty good after a long day of overseeing my workers, whose names I cannot rightly pronounce, on my cotton plantation out the back of Belco.

Lol. Same old suspects defending discrimination and bigotry. What a surprise!

I’ve met recruiters who were good at what they do, its just that what they do is not what I’d like them to. recruiters serve the employers, not the employees, us workers are just products to be sold. I’d love if there was an agency that actually worked for me, they take such a huge cut sometimes it’d be nice to see something out of it except a coffee once in a while.

having done database support for a recruitment firm, its clear why though. thousands of workers and perhaps a hundred employers, easy to see where their time is best spent. from their perspective its the employers who pay them, the employees are expendable.

I am yet to encounter a recruiter who is at all skilled at what they’re meant to be doing. They tend to get about 10% of what they should be getting. They go by appearance, and some facile skills, like a checklist, some tick-boxes. Don’t wait too long, leethaxor, a male in their late 30s is already heading towards the dreaded 40s, where suddenly you find yourself in the position of your colleague. No one says anything, but suddenly, no one wants you.

We hear and buy all the “PC” stuff about discrimination, but when we see it happening, we realise there’s stuff-all that can be done about much of it. And when you hear employers whinging about a “skills crisis”, those of us who’ve seen discrimination happening like this start to realise how powerful their whinging and spin can be. You see all those furious, bitter blokes being interviewed this week about the mass importation of “skilled” labour for Gina’s mine… men who would gladly travel there to do that job, but will never have the opportunity. It’s all spin, and it’s working.

As a former recruiter many many years ago, I discriminated against candidates based on their names and backgrounds. However, as a recruiter in Sydney I had to discriminate both for and against Anglo Saxon named candidates. In most cases the recruiters are simply appeasing their masters.

For example I noticed that at one of our client IT companies a placement hadn’t been made in over 6 months. I enquired with my manager as to the reason and was informed that no one had come across any suitable Asian candidates for some time. The founders/owners of the company were of Asian heritage and only employed other Asian’s, as long as they were from the right Asian country. Apparently Filipinos and Malaysian’s weren’t of the right Asian stock.

When working on a niche IT skills role for a large IT outsourcer, I put forward candidates from East European to Indian origin as they were the only ones with the relevant skills. The manager attempting to fill the role called me one afternoon and asked if there were no candidates with easier names to pronounce. He ended up settling on an East European candidate after I taught him how to pronounce his name.

Would I get more responses from a client by putting forward easy to pronounce or Anglo Saxon names, all the the time.

DrKoresh said :

chewy14 said :

People stereotype. You can realise this and deal with it or piss and moan about how unfair life is. I know which one I think is easier and a more productive use of your time.

I think calling attention to it is a great first step in dealing with it, unless you’ve got a better suggestion? Otherwise, can you tell me what your supposed great and easy solution to this problem is? ‘Cause I’ll get right off this computer and go do it right now.

So go on, what’s “easier and a more productive” than calling attention to it? Or are you just pissing and moaning yourself?

Read my first comment. I’ve already said I work with a number of individuals who use anglicised versions of their real names to get around it.

Other options would be to do what the vast majority of people do and not use a recruiting agency to find a job. If these people are experienced in their field in this country they will have made friends and business contacts who are usually great places to start. Make sure your resume is very well written so its less likely that others stop at the name. Get the most important information on the first page.

Calling attention to this will most likely achieve nothing. You can’t change people from stereotyping, its a fundamental way people deal with individuals who are strangers. And a lot of the time they are completely justified in doing so. That may be tough for individuals who don’t fit particular stereotypes but life isn’t meant to be fair.

I’d employ her – an aboriginal lesbian aged 40+ would be great for the EEO stats come Annual Report time.

But have some of the people commenting here actually read the OP? We are talking about recruitment firms pre-screening, not employers. As an employer with some decent quals in labour economics, this kind of behaviour, assuming all other things being equal, is such a waste of resources. I’ve employed people who have had limited english, but have also rejected them when written and oral communication be important. I’ve employed gays, old folk, Gen Y, good lookers, fuglies, asians, aboriginals, team players, individualists and even some aussies with anglo names. If a recruitment firm did not forward a resume because of some pre-conceived discrimination, I’d be questioning our contract. This aint political correctness gone mad or any kind of positive discrimination, its simply that I want the best person to do the job.

chewy14 said :

People stereotype. You can realise this and deal with it or piss and moan about how unfair life is. I know which one I think is easier and a more productive use of your time.

I think calling attention to it is a great first step in dealing with it, unless you’ve got a better suggestion? Otherwise, can you tell me what your supposed great and easy solution to this problem is? ‘Cause I’ll get right off this computer and go do it right now.

So go on, what’s “easier and a more productive” than calling attention to it? Or are you just pissing and moaning yourself?

Ben_Dover said :

yet are incapable of finding an example of my having done this. I don’t think any workplace will be rushing to hire you.

Here is your example, turd-brain, or do you spout so much red-neck garbage that you can’t remember it all?

Ben_Dover said :

Then it’s probably best that they are allowed to discriminate. It woudl be stupid and counterproductive for someone gay or transexual to get a job in such an environment due to some enforced and mandated politically correct hiring laws.

And I’ll tell you what’s actually poor-form, advocating that employers be allowed to deny people a job on the basis of their last-name or sexuality (which I just provided you an example of, so don’t deny it). Just own-up to being a bigoted old fartbag instead of trying to derail me with lies and irrelevant shit-talking. I tell you mate, if you aren’t a politician already then you’re wasting your talents.

SnapperJack said :

Interesting to see some of the targeted groups for the anti-discrimination police practicing discrimination themselves. Like the gay bar in Melbourne which has gained approval to keep females out and of course the various women-only gyms. As for certain religions (yes, the middle-eastern one which has almost destroyed social cohesion in this country and made us a terrorist target), well just don’t go there at all.

Actually it is Australia’s policy of blindly siding with the USA in all things that has made us a terrorist target. If we had an independent and sensible policy on Israel we would probably find ourselves much lower down the hit-list.

Islam doesn’t have a monopoly on terrorism, and other cultures and religions probably invented it.

IP

1337Hax0r said :

chewy14 said :

If you only have a limited amount of time, removing people who are more likely to have language or cultural issues makes sense.

See, justifications like that are stupid. This country has been built by migrants. I am a FIRST generation migrant to this country. There are bits of the cuture I don’t get. I have co-workers who are third and fourth generation and still retain names from their European and Asian heratidge and have lived here all their life. So you think it is justified to drop them off the job list because of their name?

Would you not hire the following people based on their names:
Mandawuy Yunupingu
John Yu
Gustav Nossal
Lowitja O’Donoghue
Victor Chang
Roman Quaedvlieg

Your argument is totally flawed.

Yes listing 6 top quality individuals with non Anglo names totally refutes what i was trying to say.

DrKoresh said :

1337Hax0r said :

chewy14 said :

If you only have a limited amount of time, removing people who are more likely to have language or cultural issues makes sense.

See, justifications like that are stupid. This country has been built by migrants. I am a FIRST generation migrant to this country. There are bits of the cuture I don’t get. I have co-workers who are third and fourth generation and still retain names from their European and Asian heratidge and have lived here all their life. So you think it is justified to drop them off the job list because of their name?

Would you not hire the following people based on their names:
Mandawuy Yunupingu
John Yu
Gustav Nossal
Lowitja O’Donoghue
Victor Chang
Roman Quaedvlieg

Your argument is totally flawed.

+100
I would rather be surrounded by competent colleagues than people who were hired because their name is anglo and easy to pronounce.

did you read the OP?

He was equally as competent as the person with the non-anglo name. It’s not a choice of deciding between a person who is competent or not, its recruiting agencies or managers trying to filter dozens or hundreds of resumes of qualified people for what will best fit the company and their requirements.

As I said, sure its not fair but its understandable.

You can try to wish for a world where bosses will fully read every resume that comes across their desk but it won’t make it reality.

People stereotype. You can realise this and deal with it or piss and moan about how unfair life is. I know which one I think is easier and a more productive use of your time.

DrKoresh said :

I would rather be surrounded by competent colleagues than people who were hired because their name is anglo and easy to pronounce.

I’m still awaiting your producing my discriminatory posts, you expect competence of others but show little yourself.

For instance; in this post you use “your” in the first sentence to indicate me, then “your” in the second sentence to indicate a generality. Poor form.

DrKoresh said :

By prejudices I mean your issues against gays etc. and people who you feel aren’t ‘like-minded’. And by work environment I mean your place of employ, you idiot, what the Hell do you think I mean by that?

Not only that, but you accuse me of ;

Ben_Dover said :

[You’re the one promoting discriminatory hiring practices and yet I’m prejudiced?

yet are incapable of finding an example of my having done this. I don’t think any workplace will be rushing to hire you.

and don’t forget ageism. I am the wrong side of 50 and Aboriginal, I’m screwed!

blimkybill said :

+1000 to dr Koresh.
As one of a minority group frequently targeted for discrimination, anti discrimination law means a great deal to me personally. I also believe that changes in the law help progress attitudinal change in the wider community. If those people saying they think it’s ok for bigoted employers to discriminate had actually been on the receiving end themselves, they might have some idea why it actually does matter.

I’m glad someone appreciates the position I took. 😀 I felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall talking to Mr.Dover, unfortunately, I’m not sure people like that have the ability to look at problems like this from another person’s perspective.

1337Hax0r said :

chewy14 said :

If you only have a limited amount of time, removing people who are more likely to have language or cultural issues makes sense.

See, justifications like that are stupid. This country has been built by migrants. I am a FIRST generation migrant to this country. There are bits of the cuture I don’t get. I have co-workers who are third and fourth generation and still retain names from their European and Asian heratidge and have lived here all their life. So you think it is justified to drop them off the job list because of their name?

Would you not hire the following people based on their names:
Mandawuy Yunupingu
John Yu
Gustav Nossal
Lowitja O’Donoghue
Victor Chang
Roman Quaedvlieg

Your argument is totally flawed.

+100
I would rather be surrounded by competent colleagues than people who were hired because their name is anglo and easy to pronounce.

+1000 to dr Koresh.
As one of a minority group frequently targeted for discrimination, anti discrimination law means a great deal to me personally. I also believe that changes in the law help progress attitudinal change in the wider community. If those people saying they think it’s ok for bigoted employers to discriminate had actually been on the receiving end themselves, they might have some idea why it actually does matter.

chewy14 said :

If you only have a limited amount of time, removing people who are more likely to have language or cultural issues makes sense.

See, justifications like that are stupid. This country has been built by migrants. I am a FIRST generation migrant to this country. There are bits of the cuture I don’t get. I have co-workers who are third and fourth generation and still retain names from their European and Asian heratidge and have lived here all their life. So you think it is justified to drop them off the job list because of their name?

Would you not hire the following people based on their names:
Mandawuy Yunupingu
John Yu
Gustav Nossal
Lowitja O’Donoghue
Victor Chang
Roman Quaedvlieg

Your argument is totally flawed.

Ben_Dover said :

DrKoresh said :

By prejudices I mean your issues against gays etc. and people who you feel aren’t ‘like-minded’.

Please point out any “issues against gays etc.” I have demonstrated.

DrKoresh said :

And by work environment I mean your place of employ, you idiot, what the Hell do you think I mean by that?

I had made no reference to my place of work, so you’re on loser there .

DrKoresh said :

Maybe you should crack a dictionary before you start asking stupid questions in a childish attempt to deflect my calling you out on your small-minded bullshit.

If you had called me out on any “small minded bullshit” I would have responded to it. However what you have done is just rant about your own prejudices without even considering how to formulate a rational and coherent argument. You then compound this error by making up imaginary slights against people, and offer not a scintilla of substantiation. That is why you, and those of your ilk never do very well in debates.

You’re the one promoting discriminatory hiring practices and yet I’m prejudiced? That’s rich, almost as rich as dismissing my argument without actually addressing it in anyway. You can continue to attack me and my “ilk” instead of bringing anything to the table but all you’re doing is proving my original point that you’re bigoted, out-dated fool. Your (somewhat coy) admition to supporting discrimination in the workplace is not an imaginary slight, it’s evidence of bigotry, or at the very least ignorance.

Ben_Dover said :

I had made no reference to my place of work, so you’re on loser there .

Also, the way you misinterpret my general use of the word ‘your’ to meaning you specifically is so stupid that I’m thinking you must have done it on purpose to make me cross. Kinda like everything you say I guess. (that time, I was referring specifically to YOU, you obstreperous, intellectually dishonest moron)

DrKoresh said :

By prejudices I mean your issues against gays etc. and people who you feel aren’t ‘like-minded’.

Please point out any “issues against gays etc.” I have demonstrated.

DrKoresh said :

And by work environment I mean your place of employ, you idiot, what the Hell do you think I mean by that?

I had made no reference to my place of work, so you’re on loser there .

DrKoresh said :

Maybe you should crack a dictionary before you start asking stupid questions in a childish attempt to deflect my calling you out on your small-minded bullshit.

If you had called me out on any “small minded bullshit” I would have responded to it. However what you have done is just rant about your own prejudices without even considering how to formulate a rational and coherent argument. You then compound this error by making up imaginary slights against people, and offer not a scintilla of substantiation. That is why you, and those of your ilk never do very well in debates.

So many people want to harp on about discrimination but refuse to even consider the practicalities of hiring people.

Is it fair that a manager, who might get 100 applicants for a position, only takes a cursory look at resumes and throws out some based on name? Probably not?

But is it sensible and efficient on their part? Probably yes.

If you only have a limited amount of time, removing people who are more likely to have language or cultural issues makes sense.

I work with quite a number of people who have used anglicised versions of their names to get around this. Getting the interview is the hard bit but once they got that there was no issues of discrimination because they proved themselves the best candidate.

Ben_Dover said :

DrKoresh said :

Hell, you can start your own Old White Men Only club and surround yourself with all the like-minded bigots you want, but keep your prejudices out of the work environment.

What “prejudices”? Which “work environment”? Do you have any comment to make other than left wing catchphrases?

By prejudices I mean your issues against gays etc. and people who you feel aren’t ‘like-minded’. And by work environment I mean your place of employ, you idiot, what the Hell do you think I mean by that? Maybe you should crack a dictionary before you start asking stupid questions in a childish attempt to deflect my calling you out on your small-minded bullshit.

DrKoresh said :

Hell, you can start your own Old White Men Only club and surround yourself with all the like-minded bigots you want, but keep your prejudices out of the work environment.

What “prejudices”? Which “work environment”? Do you have any comment to make other than left wing catchphrases?

SnapperJack said :

Interesting to see some of the targeted groups for the anti-discrimination police practicing discrimination themselves. Like the gay bar in Melbourne which has gained approval to keep females out and of course the various women-only gyms. As for certain religions (yes, the middle-eastern one which has almost destroyed social cohesion in this country and made us a terrorist target), well just don’t go there at all.

Actually, I think this comment just makes me feel sick.

SnapperJack said :

Oh wow, I didn’t think people like you existed as anything but strawmen created by lefties to attack social conservatives. I don’t know whether this comment makes me want to laugh or cry.

Has your co-worker tried the federal public service directly? All federal departments/agencies are now required to have reconciliation action plans, and I suspect quite a few of these action plans would contain the goal of increasing their Indigenous workforce. Therefore many departments/agencies are currently on the lookout for suitably skilled Indigenous Australians.

Interesting to see some of the targeted groups for the anti-discrimination police practicing discrimination themselves. Like the gay bar in Melbourne which has gained approval to keep females out and of course the various women-only gyms. As for certain religions (yes, the middle-eastern one which has almost destroyed social cohesion in this country and made us a terrorist target), well just don’t go there at all.

Ben_Dover said :

DrKoresh said :

You’re joking right? 😐 I hope you’re joking. On a personal level, sure, people can hold whatever bigoted notions they want about certain demographics, but it’s not acceptable on a professional level which is why it’s illegal to discriminate on such grounds. It’s probably best that people can take legal action against such backwards-thinking brain-dead neanderthals, instead of just letting them keep on keeping on.

So rather than the sensible notion of people employing like minded people, or people they can get along with, we should force square pegs into round holes.

Hell, you can start your own Old White Men Only club and surround yourself with all the like-minded bigots you want, but keep your prejudices out of the work environment.

Ben_Dover said :

DrKoresh said :

You’re joking right? 😐 I hope you’re joking. On a personal level, sure, people can hold whatever bigoted notions they want about certain demographics, but it’s not acceptable on a professional level which is why it’s illegal to discriminate on such grounds. It’s probably best that people can take legal action against such backwards-thinking brain-dead neanderthals, instead of just letting them keep on keeping on.

So rather than the sensible notion of people employing like minded people, or people they can get along with, we should force square pegs into round holes.

That’s a pretty weak analogy, but if by that you mean that we shouldn’t let employers discriminate on the basis of race, gender, sexuality or any other issue totally unrelated to the work they wish to do then, yes, I think we should. You can start a private hate-speech club if you want, but discrimination has no place in a work-environment, especially not coming from people in positions of responsibility.

DrKoresh said :

You’re joking right? 😐 I hope you’re joking. On a personal level, sure, people can hold whatever bigoted notions they want about certain demographics, but it’s not acceptable on a professional level which is why it’s illegal to discriminate on such grounds. It’s probably best that people can take legal action against such backwards-thinking brain-dead neanderthals, instead of just letting them keep on keeping on.

So rather than the sensible notion of people employing like minded people, or people they can get along with, we should force square pegs into round holes.

I really wish I had kept the newspaper articles because I could then put in a proper reference, but about 3 years back someone in Australia had a look at the impact having an asian-sounding name had on your job seeking prospects, and it was very clear that it makes it much harder to get an interview. Even if it is apparent from your CV that you have grown up in Australia and are going to turn up sporting a thick ocker twang, you still have significantly less chance of getting an interview if your last name is Chang or Liu than if it is Smith or Jones.

And because the same problem exists in other countries doesn’t make it ok that it happens here – you can’t really discredit someone’s point by going “oh, but other countries do it too”.

Truthiness said :

…We like to think we got rid of the white australia policy, but our migration policies are still massively preferential towards white people, and the average man on the street is still terrified of the “yellow tide”. We still fundamentally think of ourselves as europeans, even thought we are in asia. The higher up the food chain you get, the more slanted things are toward white people. We don’t mind having miners or programmers that are asian, but god forbid the managers and executives be anything but english!

Even in parliament, we can elect all the minorities we want, but at the end of the day our leader is still the british monarch.

I personally don’t think there is any denying Australia is deeply racist. The truth is, most countries are racist, even china is massively racist. I actually think racism goes hand in hand with nationalism, as soon as you start thinking your country is better than another country, you’re 2/3rds of the way to racism.

Wow.

How about you provide proof, or even evidence of some of your assertions? Can you provide proof that are migration policies are give preference to skin colour as opposed to political/geographic considerations? Or even better, your ridiculous claim that “the average man on the street is terrified of the ‘yellow tide’ “? No, of course you can’t.

We think of ourselves as Europeans, do we? Interesting. This comes as news to me, and everyone I know who wasn’t born in Europe.

There may be racism in all countries, but it is not right in any of them.

Ben_Dover said :

Then it’s probably best that they are allowed to discriminate. It woudl be stupid and counterproductive for someone gay or transexual to get a job in such an environment due to some enforced and mandated politically correct hiring laws.

You’re joking right? 😐 I hope you’re joking. On a personal level, sure, people can hold whatever bigoted notions they want about certain demographics, but it’s not acceptable on a professional level which is why it’s illegal to discriminate on such grounds. It’s probably best that people can take legal action against such backwards-thinking brain-dead neanderthals, instead of just letting them keep on keeping on.

How often do you get through to an indian call centre only to be speaking with someone with a very strong accent named ‘sam’, ‘bob’ or ‘susan’?

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

+1.

I get so sick of hearing this garbage. Spend time in damn near ANY other country and then see the reality of the situation.

Ben_Dover said :

Then it’s probably best that they are allowed to discriminate. It woudl be stupid and counterproductive for someone gay or transexual to get a job in such an environment due to some enforced and mandated politically correct hiring laws.

What? Like it was stupid for blacks to live in white neighbourhoods? Or Jewish people to live in Germany during the Nazi regime? Or for Aborigines to get counted on the census in a country with a white Australia policy? Or for black people to ride on the same bus as whites?
Wake up to yourself. Introducing people with different cultural experiences and backgrounds opens up work places and makes them more vibrant. Besides, there probably are gay and transgender people working there now who have to put up with boys club BS work culture as it is, only they have to hide in order to keep their jobs. My son is gay and kept it hidden from me for years because he was afraid of how I’d react. I never would have thought he was gay at all. He must have, yeah he did cry because of the BS I used to harp on about gay people. It made me feel ashamed and determined to change when he finally told me.
Like I said, wake up to yourself. Attitudes like that drive people to commit suicide and live miserable lives. Think about the harm you are doing with your narrow mindedness.

It seems that research bares this out. ANU did a study on this.
http://www.migrantjobsservices.com.au/?p=631
“A migrant with a foreign name will have to send up to 68% more resumes than a person with an Anglo-Saxon name, according to research by ANU professor Dr Andrew Leigh.”

The actual report is downloadable in PDF format.
http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/AuditDiscrimination_3expts.pdf

It was interesting to note that differnt races experience different levels of racism. It is not all the same.

1337Hax0r said :

I even used to ignore my ex-wife when she said her company CEO of an IT company insists on not hiring people with forighn names or anyone who looked gay or transsexual. He had a real hate of gays and was quite open about it.

Then it’s probably best that they are allowed to discriminate. It woudl be stupid and counterproductive for someone gay or transexual to get a job in such an environment due to some enforced and mandated politically correct hiring laws.

vg said :

I mean your co-worker couldn’t possibly be s***house with poor references could they? It must be because they have a hard to pronounce name, as there’s none of those in contemporary Australian society.

Some people could find the problem by looking in the mirror, and not looking for excuses

My co-worker has the exact same refrences as I do. Our managers and supervisors love our team and our work and would keep us all if they could. The problem is not in the mirrors, it is with the recruiting companies.
That is the sort of answer I expect from some one like I used to be, white, Anglo Saxon, middle class and close minded. I even used to ignore my ex-wife when she said her company CEO of an IT company insists on not hiring people with forighn names or anyone who looked gay or transsexual. He had a real hate of gays and was quite open about it.

Truthiness said :

I am white, it is the name that makes the difference. How about you try applying for your next couple of jobs with an unusual name on your resume. Shall we take bets on the results?

Well, I am white and most people expect me to be asian due to my semi-unusual name and i have found it has never held me back.

I am just saying that it is not always racism behind hiring practices, just maybe s***ty resumes’.

Great link birder, here is the paper’s conclusion about names:

Resumes with White names have a 9.65 percent chance of receiving a callback. Equivalent resumes
with African American names have a 6.45 percent chance of being called back. This represents a
difference in callback rates of 3.20 percentage points, or 50 percent, that can solely be attributed
to the name manipulation.

PBO said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones, we were founded by a empire which prosperred by oppressing and destroying black people, and to this day our wealth is a legacy of that history.

I feel for you and how frustrating it must seem when you think that it is the colour of your skin holding you back although i feel it may be more than that. Try this before your next interview:

http://www.superwhiteningpills.net/

If you get the job then you may be right, if not then it may be your approach to being interviewed and nothing more than that.

I am white, it is the name that makes the difference. How about you try applying for your next couple of jobs with an unusual name on your resume. Shall we take bets on the results?

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

+1

And many are far worse than us.

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

Spot on. Unfortunate but true.

This is well documented in the United States. Here’s one of the studies, titled “Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination.”

http://scholar.harvard.edu/mullainathan/files/emilygreg.pdf

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones, we were founded by a empire which prosperred by oppressing and destroying black people, and to this day our wealth is a legacy of that history.

I feel for you and how frustrating it must seem when you think that it is the colour of your skin holding you back although i feel it may be more than that. Try this before your next interview:

http://www.superwhiteningpills.net/

If you get the job then you may be right, if not then it may be your approach to being interviewed and nothing more than that.

More pseudo-sociology/psychology masquerading as good business practice.

Truthiness, get a life sunshine eh?

I mean your co-worker couldn’t possibly be s***house with poor references could they? It must be because they have a hard to pronounce name, as there’s none of those in contemporary Australian society.

Some people could find the problem by looking in the mirror, and not looking for excuses

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

If you’re in your fifties you would have absolutely no chance of ever being re-employed no matter what your sex or creed.

No doubt there is rampant discrimination, I have been on a selection panel where our boss literally went through a pile of resumes and threw out all the ones with names he couldn’t pronounce. I’ve also seen so very many people hired just because they knew the boss somehow.

I use my middle name as my first name on job applications and at work, since it is anglo-saxon. Having submitted hundreds of applciations over the years, under both my strange first name and my normal middle name, it has become abundantly clear that the anglo saxon name gets *far* more callbacks, I’ve even applied for roles under both names, and only got call backs for the english name. Exact same resume, exact same experience, only the name changed.

I’d love to be able to work under my real name, but i much prefer having a job at all.

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones, we were founded by a empire which prosperred by oppressing and destroying black people, and to this day our wealth is a legacy of that history. We can live so well here precisely because we took so much without paying for it, and because millions suffer to produce the things we consume.

We like to think we got rid of the white australia policy, but our migration policies are still massively preferential towards white people, and the average man on the street is still terrified of the “yellow tide”. We still fundamentally think of ourselves as europeans, even thought we are in asia. The higher up the food chain you get, the more slanted things are toward white people. We don’t mind having miners or programmers that are asian, but god forbid the managers and executives be anything but english! Even in parliament, we can elect all the minorities we want, but at the end of the day our leader is still the british monarch.

I personally don’t think there is any denying Australia is deeply racist. The truth is, most countries are racist, even china is massively racist. I actually think racism goes hand in hand with nationalism, as soon as you start thinking your country is better than another country, you’re 2/3rds of the way to racism.

I too am well groomed.

Weird thing is, most of the recruiting company clients have models very open to all. It could be that the recruiting companies themselves have made the call based on how they perceive what their clients want. Hey, why bother asking when you can guess?

It could explain why the company I work for doesn’t hire through agencies.

One said :

Discrimination is just the start – I would help but it seems that discrimination also exists online between those who type for a job, and those who don’t.

Who would have thought that in a communications medium the ability to communicate might be important?

Discrimination is just the start – I would help but it seems that discrimination also exists online between those who type for a job, and those who don’t.

hmmm….a mate of mine had an apostrophe in his Irish surname, which he dropped because of the hassle of banking and IT systems not being able to handle it.
After struggling to get a job it was suggested that his surname without the apostrophe now resembled an African surname and culturally (or racially), this was having an impact.
Stuck the apostrophe back in…..more responses. All anecdotal of course, can never be proven.

Yeah, not many really want a walking PC nightmare ruining their harmonious office culture.

Whether she is such a liability is irrelevant, unfortunately; she had her reputation built by others.