Corporate fit and attitude equals discrimination by Canberra recruiting firms.

1337Hax0r 28 May 2012 81

I’ve been looking for work for about two months now after the company I was working for lost a contract and announced it would have to make some of us redundant. So have my co-workers.

I’ve been advised of several job opportunities through two major recruiting companies I registered with.

Strangely, one of my co-workers who is also registered with them has not.

I have a university degree. I’m in my late 30s. My co-worker is too, being 2 years older than me. My co-worker has almost the same degree. I have 10 years experience in my field. My co-worker has 12. I have extensive training, experience and skills in my field. So does my co-worker, they have better experience than me really. I have a good work history, no complaints, nothing dodgy, no issues. The same with my co-worker. I was born in England. My co-worker was born in Australia. I had a security clearance, so did my co-worker. I have short, neatly cropped hair and am well presented. My co-worker has hair down past her shoulders and is reasonably presented. I wear ties and a suit. She wears dresses or skirts and a blouse. I’m straight. My co-worker doesn’t talk about her sexuality, but when prompted, once mentioned she is a lesbian, and does not hide that, but nor does she go out of her way to make it known. I have a nice Anglo Saxon name. My co-worker has a name that took me a week to learn to pronounce and longer to learn how to spell properly.

I’ve been told I have the right image, attitude and cultural fit the recruiting companies are looking for. My co-worker has not heard those terms mentioned.

I have been put forward for five jobs. My co-worker has been put forward for none.

I read this article about skills being overlooked in favour of cultural fit.

It seems to me, that’s the new term these days for discrimination. Being hired for attitude and cultural fit over skills and experience? It does seem very discriminatory when I’m being put forward for jobs that I know my co-workers is better qualified for. Until I asked if she had been advised of those jobs I wasn’t even aware of this sort of thing. Though speaking to other co-workers with foreign sounding names, this is quite a common experience in Canberra. My Aboriginal co-worker said they don’t bother using the major recruiting companies anymore because they’ve never been put forward for a single job ever.

I’ve woken up to discrimination. My co-worker has experienced it for years.


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81 Responses to Corporate fit and attitude equals discrimination by Canberra recruiting firms.
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VYBerlinaV8_is_back VYBerlinaV8_is_back 1:53 pm 30 May 12

LSWCHP said :

I’ve sometimes wondered about this sort of thing. In my case, I won’t employ people who don’t have acceptable spoken and written business English skills, and it doesn’t matter what their name sounds like. Admittedly this will filter out a lot of NESB folks, but it also filters out a lot of ESB people as well.

I’m continually amazed by how many people (with or without Anglo sounding names) submit crap job applications that are littered with typographical errors, misspellings, completely garbled paragraphs that have blown up due to incorrect cut-and-paste etc etc. They all go into the “no thanks” bin.

+1. This is how I recruit also. There are lots of people (regardless of background) who have poor communication skills. When you find people who not only fit the technical criteria but also have good communication skills and are personable enough to work with, hire them.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 1:07 pm 30 May 12

Slightly off topic, but…

Last night on the ABC news I saw some appalling footage from the Ukraine where the 2012 UEFA championships will shortly be held. It showed stadiums full of idiots giving the Nazi salute, a bunch of degenerates gibbering and making monkey gestures and noises at some black players entering the field, and a gang of gigantic shaven headed hoods beating the crap out of some spectators, apparently because they weren’t white. It was mad. Utterly insane, disgusting and horrifying.

The ex-captain of the Pommy team (a black guy) was interviewed and said that he thought there was no way that Ukraine should have anything to do with the cup based on what he’d seen.

Racism anywhere is ridiculous, stupid and counter-productive. There is undoubtedly racism aplenty in Australia, and it should be stamped out wherever it is found. But based on the obscene crap I saw last night, however bad things may be here, they are obviously far worse in other parts of the world.

chewy14 chewy14 5:27 pm 29 May 12

Overheard said :

chewy14 said :

Overheard said :

Oh no! He’s quoting Wikipedia. There goes every cogent point I had out the window. Damn that chewy and his irrefutable evidence.

Oh no, Overheard hasn’t provided anything other than cries of raccciiiissst and that’s not how you spell “its”.
I’d try to read and possibly refute your cogent points but you haven’t presented any.

Correct.

And if you look carefully, you’ll also notice I have not cried, spake or mumbled ‘racist’ either.

So I invite you to pull your head in!

Perhaps you’d like to re-read your first reply to me:

Overheard said :

Oh dear. I think this might actually be someone’s racist grandfather.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 3:52 pm 29 May 12

HenryBG said :

DrKoresh said :

Ben_Dover said :

So rather than the sensible notion of people employing like minded people, or people they can get along with, we should force square pegs into round holes.

Hell, you can start your own Old White Men Only club and surround yourself with all the like-minded bigots you want, but keep your prejudices out of the work environment.

So you’ll be going down to Jabal’s in Mawson outrage-demanding they explain precisely how they came about the particular ethnic mix that makes up their counter staff?

I guess not.

What about, come election-time, when the Canberra Times runs its “voter interviews” where they cover a page with the photos of about a dozen voters together with a line from each where they explain their voting intentions, you always get at least one saying,
“Oh, I’ll vote for Andrew Barr, because I’m gay”.
Never heard these communists outraged by that one.

Change it it,
“Oh, I always ask the white shop assistant for help because I’m white”.
Bingo! Communists come out of the woodwork for it…

Lol. Communists.

Good one Grandpa!

DrKoresh DrKoresh 3:44 pm 29 May 12

HenryBG said :

MightyJoe said :

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

When she says, “anglo”, is that her racist code for “white”?

I’m only asking, because a majority of we white people are far from being “anglo”. In fact, there are dozens of ethnicities that we belong to apart from “anglo”.
Maybe, to your wife, we all look the same?

Sorry, I guess that is an offensive term. I’ll just refer to white devils like yourself as ‘crackers’ from now on. Better, cracker?

Overheard Overheard 3:43 pm 29 May 12

chewy14 said :

Overheard said :

Oh no! He’s quoting Wikipedia. There goes every cogent point I had out the window. Damn that chewy and his irrefutable evidence.

Oh no, Overheard hasn’t provided anything other than cries of raccciiiissst and that’s not how you spell “its”.
I’d try to read and possibly refute your cogent points but you haven’t presented any.

Correct.

And if you look carefully, you’ll also notice I have not cried, spake or mumbled ‘racist’ either.

So I invite you to pull your head in!

HenryBG HenryBG 3:37 pm 29 May 12

MightyJoe said :

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

When she says, “anglo”, is that her racist code for “white”?

I’m only asking, because a majority of we white people are far from being “anglo”. In fact, there are dozens of ethnicities that we belong to apart from “anglo”.
Maybe, to your wife, we all look the same?

HenryBG HenryBG 3:33 pm 29 May 12

DrKoresh said :

Ben_Dover said :

So rather than the sensible notion of people employing like minded people, or people they can get along with, we should force square pegs into round holes.

Hell, you can start your own Old White Men Only club and surround yourself with all the like-minded bigots you want, but keep your prejudices out of the work environment.

So you’ll be going down to Jabal’s in Mawson outrage-demanding they explain precisely how they came about the particular ethnic mix that makes up their counter staff?

I guess not.

What about, come election-time, when the Canberra Times runs its “voter interviews” where they cover a page with the photos of about a dozen voters together with a line from each where they explain their voting intentions, you always get at least one saying,
“Oh, I’ll vote for Andrew Barr, because I’m gay”.
Never heard these communists outraged by that one.

Change it it,
“Oh, I always ask the white shop assistant for help because I’m white”.
Bingo! Communists come out of the woodwork for it…

chewy14 chewy14 3:05 pm 29 May 12

Overheard said :

Oh no! He’s quoting Wikipedia. There goes every cogent point I had out the window. Damn that chewy and his irrefutable evidence.

Oh no, Overheard hasn’t provided anything other than cries of raccciiiissst and that’s not how you spell “its”.
I’d try to read and possibly refute your cogent points but you haven’t presented any.

Overheard Overheard 2:40 pm 29 May 12

chewy14 said :

Overheard said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Oh dear. I think this might actually be someone’s racist grandfather.

And the word is “its” accuracy. Best be brushing up on them English language skills, bozo.

Yeah, I can’t believe I made a typo on my mobile phone when it autocorrected. Totally refutes my point.

Here’s a simple start on stereotyping from the font of all knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

I’ve never suggested that people of other races or nationalities are inferior or superior to others. I’ve given a reason why people may stereotype on foreign souding names and why it may be an efficient way of filtering potential applicants based on the skill sets needed by potential businesses.

As I’ve said, it’s not fair but it’s understandable and I don’t think any amount of well meaning indoctrination will change it.

Oh and for the record, the last three people I hired came from India, China and Bangladesh. Two of them used anglicised names when applying for the jobs and one used their real, extremely foreign sounding name. Damn me and my racist hide.

“Some of my favourite employees are Asian.”

Oh no! He’s quoting Wikipedia. There goes every cogent point I had out the window. Damn that chewy and his irrefutable evidence.

chewy14 chewy14 1:18 pm 29 May 12

Overheard said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Oh dear. I think this might actually be someone’s racist grandfather.

And the word is “its” accuracy. Best be brushing up on them English language skills, bozo.

Yeah, I can’t believe I made a typo on my mobile phone when it autocorrected. Totally refutes my point.

Here’s a simple start on stereotyping from the font of all knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype

I’ve never suggested that people of other races or nationalities are inferior or superior to others. I’ve given a reason why people may stereotype on foreign souding names and why it may be an efficient way of filtering potential applicants based on the skill sets needed by potential businesses.

As I’ve said, it’s not fair but it’s understandable and I don’t think any amount of well meaning indoctrination will change it.

Oh and for the record, the last three people I hired came from India, China and Bangladesh. Two of them used anglicised names when applying for the jobs and one used their real, extremely foreign sounding name. Damn me and my racist hide.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 12:29 pm 29 May 12

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Hah – there’s no ‘game’ here. And there’s clearly no point in logical ‘argument’. Have a look at some of the posts:

– it’s okay to chuck out resumes because people have funny names (because they’d be people what couldn’t talk Inglish and stuff)
– Wogs don’t get along with us (therefore we shouldn’t hire them)
– Muslims are terrorists and are ruining the country
– Other countries are way more racist than us (so it’s okay to be just a little bit racist, you know)
– and so it goes

Sometimes reading the posts in here is like eavesdropping on someone’s racist grandfather. Funny and sickening all at the same time (not entirely unlike a brutally murdered clown).

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

It’s probably more worthwhile to have all potential job applicants be thoroughly examined by a phrenologist.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 12:25 pm 29 May 12

I’ve sometimes wondered about this sort of thing. In my case, I won’t employ people who don’t have acceptable spoken and written business English skills, and it doesn’t matter what their name sounds like. Admittedly this will filter out a lot of NESB folks, but it also filters out a lot of ESB people as well.

I’m continually amazed by how many people (with or without Anglo sounding names) submit crap job applications that are littered with typographical errors, misspellings, completely garbled paragraphs that have blown up due to incorrect cut-and-paste etc etc. They all go into the “no thanks” bin.

Overheard Overheard 12:09 pm 29 May 12

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Oh dear. I think this might actually be someone’s racist grandfather.

And the word is “its” accuracy. Best be brushing up on them English language skills, bozo.

johnboy johnboy 12:01 pm 29 May 12

chewy14 said :

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

Ahh a defence of racism. Quite rare in this day and age.

chewy14 chewy14 12:00 pm 29 May 12

Jim Jones said :

Hah – there’s no ‘game’ here. And there’s clearly no point in logical ‘argument’. Have a look at some of the posts:

– it’s okay to chuck out resumes because people have funny names (because they’d be people what couldn’t talk Inglish and stuff)
– Wogs don’t get along with us (therefore we shouldn’t hire them)
– Muslims are terrorists and are ruining the country
– Other countries are way more racist than us (so it’s okay to be just a little bit racist, you know)
– and so it goes

Sometimes reading the posts in here is like eavesdropping on someone’s racist grandfather. Funny and sickening all at the same time (not entirely unlike a brutally murdered clown).

I would disagree with every point except your first. I think that having a foreign sounding name would be correlated well with lower levels of English language skills which are fundamental for most jobs.

I think you need to do some research on stereotyping and it’s accuracy.

MightyJoe MightyJoe 11:53 am 29 May 12

But to be honest, which migrant with less than 5 years English under their belt does have a perfect Australian / English (the language) accent except for the English speaking countries.

MightyJoe said :

No, She is clear and concise in her language skills. She is however dark skinned and obviously doesn’t have an Australian accent..

MightyJoe MightyJoe 11:15 am 29 May 12

No, She is clear and concise in her language skills. She is however dark skinned and obviously doesn’t have an Australian accent..

Mysteryman said :

MightyJoe said :

Sorry, I used to think this way (as i was born here) but I have a weird non-anglo name, never had any problems.

My wife wasn’t born here and only came to Australia after I brought her here.. She experiences racism everyday at her work.. retail.. upper class establishment (there’s no other store….)

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

Worse thing is my wife has worked very hard to learn English and then put it into use.

I used to tell her that Australia was one of the least racist countries, but even I have changed my tune after hearing and seeing some of things my fellow Ostrayliaans do to her.

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

Is it possible that the customers go to the “anglo shop assistant” because they simply can’t understand your wife?

Mysteryman Mysteryman 11:12 am 29 May 12

MightyJoe said :

Sorry, I used to think this way (as i was born here) but I have a weird non-anglo name, never had any problems.

My wife wasn’t born here and only came to Australia after I brought her here.. She experiences racism everyday at her work.. retail.. upper class establishment (there’s no other store….)

She tells me daily of Australian women blatanly ignoring her offer for assistance and going to the anglo shop assistant (or the boss).

Worse thing is my wife has worked very hard to learn English and then put it into use.

I used to tell her that Australia was one of the least racist countries, but even I have changed my tune after hearing and seeing some of things my fellow Ostrayliaans do to her.

G-Fresh said :

Truthiness said :

Australia is incredibly racist, right down to our cultural bones

Name a place/country/culture that isn’t.

Is it possible that the customers go to the “anglo shop assistant” because they simply can’t understand your wife?

1337Hax0r 1337Hax0r 11:11 am 29 May 12

Anna Key said :

I’d employ her – an aboriginal lesbian aged 40+ would be great for the EEO stats come Annual Report time.

Not that it matters, but just to clarify, I have several co-workers. The lesbian with the European name is not the same person as the Aboriginal with the Anglo name.

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