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Cotter Road roadworks (rant)

longshanks 3 July 2013 23

I love the signs that have just gone up near the intersection of Cotter Road and Streeton Drive: “Roadworks commence 8 July, use alternative routes”.

What alternative routes do they have in mind? Hindmarsh Drive is a nightmare in the morning (and the nightmare is transferred to Melrose Drive in the evening). There used to be an alternative route through Lyons/Weston, but then someone decided it would be a good idea to do some roadworks there too, resulting in temporary traffic lights and Heysen St reduced to one lane for 50 metres.

Frankly, I’d rather see a sign that says “Roadworks commence here on 8 July, but whichever route you take you’re stuffed.” At least it would be more honest. Or how about “Yes, we’ve been upgrading Cotter Road for over two years now, and no, it’s not even remotely close to completion. Tell it to someone who cares.” But maybe that’s too honest.

Still, it’ll be nice once it’s finished (in 2015).


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Cotter Road roadworks (rant)
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KB1971 11:52 am 04 Jul 13

Whitepointer said :

I agree with some of the previous comments, but some people really have absolutely no understanding of exactly how much work and red tape is involved in a projects like this.
Biggest f#ck up, As always Pedel Power were consulted at preliminary design stage to ensure that all of their requirements have been met, then unfortunately they decide that they wish to make major amendments to a fully approved design already under construction.
The funny thing is that TAMS & Procurement Solutions (both ACT Gov) actually consider, approve & direct the consultants engaged on the project to redesign the previous works, ensuring all points raised are addressed and to the satisfaction of Pedel Power. WTF!!
Mmmm, now that whole process would only take a day or so now wouldn’t it!
Also, remember this is only stage 1of 2 stages.

Really?

You sure about that? Maybe what was being constructed was not what was provided in the design stage hence Pedal Powers protrests? If there were any, the only time I have seen them speak up is when a whole cycle path was excluded from the construction of the Majura Parkway.

Pedal Power also usually release a press statement if they are going to advocate for change & I have not seen anything about this change to the Cotter Road works.

The other thing, Pedal Power are not a government body, they are a group that band together to advocate for cyclists. An added bonus for memebers is insurance and having a voice for individuals who ride bikes.

The government does not have to listen to them and can (and will) do what they want so I doubt “Pedal Power” changed it. The gubmint did when it was pointed out to them.

dpm 11:30 am 04 Jul 13

dtc said :

dpm said :

dtc said :

Thats cos they employ about 5000 workers at a time. Feel free to increase your tax contribution.

I wonder if you tripled the workers and then took 2/3rds off the project time, how that would go with funding?

Well, the main difference is that you have to come up with all of the funding today rather than spread it over 2 or 3 or 5 years. Plus you need to find that many workers available, which (as the mining industry found) can make things costly. Plus machinery etc.

But, based on an overal cost and assuming labour and machinery etc is available and no more expensive, then it shouldnt cost any more in total. However, that assumption will never be true.

Secondly, it means you take out the entire construction site rather than 100m here and then move 100m up the road. Which is fine for a greenfields site, not so fine when you shut down an entire road for 12 months.

Yes, they have lots of sites being upgraded at the same time, leading to lots of disruptions around Canberra (at the same time). This also uses more machinery, as each site seems to have lots of heavy gear that sits idle for long periods of time (in case it is need once a week). I know of one site that had two large diggers sent to it, which have sat idle for at least 4 weeks (no earth has been moved and I’ve never seen any workers using them). Also, each site needs it own work sheds, lunch sheds etc etc…

Say there are Y workers across all sites and it is going to take X years to finish all the work, wouldn’t it potentially be easier for the community to focus on fewer sites (with more workers at each) to get each done quicker, leading to less disruptions?
The overall work at *all* sites would still take Y workers and X years , thus the cost would still be spread over X years too?
Just wondering…. As you said, it wouldn’t work out perfectly, but surely it would be worth a try instead of the current level of hassle everywhere!
My guess is it is because the Govt contracts out each job seperately which leads to these inefficiencies. Anyway….

dtc 10:38 am 04 Jul 13

dpm said :

dtc said :

Thats cos they employ about 5000 workers at a time. Feel free to increase your tax contribution.

I wonder if you tripled the workers and then took 2/3rds off the project time, how that would go with funding?

Well, the main difference is that you have to come up with all of the funding today rather than spread it over 2 or 3 or 5 years. Plus you need to find that many workers available, which (as the mining industry found) can make things costly. Plus machinery etc.

But, based on an overal cost and assuming labour and machinery etc is available and no more expensive, then it shouldnt cost any more in total. However, that assumption will never be true.

Secondly, it means you take out the entire construction site rather than 100m here and then move 100m up the road. Which is fine for a greenfields site, not so fine when you shut down an entire road for 12 months.

tim_c 9:58 am 04 Jul 13

…Still, it’ll be nice once it’s finished (in 2015).

Good luck! If the Grunge-ahlin Driveway is anything to go by, it will be about that time that they realise that everyone else was right afterall they really needed two lanes all the way along Cotter Rd – including the section between Tuggeranong Pkwy and McCulloch St. The road will be then reduced to 40km/h for half a kilometre either side of the actual roadworks while they complete Stage 37 of the Cotter Rd upgrade to rectify this.

Upon completion of this section, they will then realise that everyone else was right again and they really need to continue the two lanes all the way to Adelaide Avenue (instead of merging them into one at the intersection with Dudley St). This final section of duplication will then will be scheduled to commence in July 2017 and complete in June 2018, but probably won’t commence until March 2018 and it’s anybody’s guess when they’ll be done – especially if they hire super-slow Hewatt Earthworks like they did for the RSPCA round-about (Kirkpartick St).

chewy14 7:20 am 04 Jul 13

switch said :

Has anyone worked out why they are bothering? I can see some sense in getting rid of the roundabout, but McCulloch St intersection was already two lanes each way wide, with turning lanes. And eventually when it is finished will all the lights be synchronised? Most others in Canberra are not. There are plenty of other works on Cotter Road that need attention, especially duplicating it all the way to the parkway.

They are duplicating it, these works are part of the upgrades to handle the traffic from Molonglo Valley.

Whitepointer 12:37 am 04 Jul 13

I agree with some of the previous comments, but some people really have absolutely no understanding of exactly how much work and red tape is involved in a projects like this.
Biggest f#ck up, As always Pedel Power were consulted at preliminary design stage to ensure that all of their requirements have been met, then unfortunately they decide that they wish to make major amendments to a fully approved design already under construction.
The funny thing is that TAMS & Procurement Solutions (both ACT Gov) actually consider, approve & direct the consultants engaged on the project to redesign the previous works, ensuring all points raised are addressed and to the satisfaction of Pedel Power. WTF!!
Mmmm, now that whole process would only take a day or so now wouldn’t it!
Also, remember this is only stage 1of 2 stages.

switch 11:17 pm 03 Jul 13

Has anyone worked out why they are bothering? I can see some sense in getting rid of the roundabout, but McCulloch St intersection was already two lanes each way wide, with turning lanes. And eventually when it is finished will all the lights be synchronised? Most others in Canberra are not. There are plenty of other works on Cotter Road that need attention, especially duplicating it all the way to the parkway.

magiccar9 8:13 pm 03 Jul 13

chewy14 said :

A good bunch of slaves would have these roadworks finished in no time at all.

Either that or make the decision makers work on the side of during the entire period that the roadworks are active. Better yet, map out the routes the pollies take to and from work, then erect some lower speed limits and lane closures. Make them sit for 30 minutes only to travel 200m and they’ll soon pull their fingers out.

gazket 5:01 pm 03 Jul 13

It is pathetic. I don’t think they have enough machinery and are sharing machines between the different road works and it drags all the jobs out so they take forever.

chewy14 4:10 pm 03 Jul 13

Affirmative Action Man said :

dtc said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Thats cos they employ about 5000 workers at a time. Feel free to increase your tax contribution.

Doesn’t have to be China – I’m sure the USA, Germany or Singapore would be more efficient.

I don’t begrudge anyone a decent wage but working flexi hours on important roadworks is a joke.

Penalty rates have made us uncompetitive. I get paid a rate Monday to Saturday with single loading Sunday or public holidays which is fine by me. My 14 y old was knocked back a after school job because they can offer 1.5 hours but Julia changed it to a minimum 2 hours.

I was hesistant about workchoices but can’t wait for them to bring it back.

LOL,

Who needs workchoices, I think we should be able to import foreigners who must work 5 years at $2 per day and then they can become citizens.

Either that or just bring back slavery.

A good bunch of slaves would have these roadworks finished in no time at all.

beardedclam 3:58 pm 03 Jul 13

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Haha, because it is too easy for people to complain about noise and light at night. It is too easy to complain about anything these days. Doesnt even have to be relevant.

Side note, have you seen the awesome developments in China that are deserted? Thats some good planning there.

Skidd Marx 2:54 pm 03 Jul 13

Yes and another “alternative route” in Parkes way also has guess what…. roadworks. Who’s the genius who decided to schedule every arterial roadwork simultaneously? My guess is they hold a UC degree.

dpm 2:48 pm 03 Jul 13

dtc said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Thats cos they employ about 5000 workers at a time. Feel free to increase your tax contribution.

I wonder if you tripled the workers and then took 2/3rds off the project time, how that would go with funding?

Affirmative Action Man 2:43 pm 03 Jul 13

dtc said :

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Thats cos they employ about 5000 workers at a time. Feel free to increase your tax contribution.

Doesn’t have to be China – I’m sure the USA, Germany or Singapore would be more efficient.

I don’t begrudge anyone a decent wage but working flexi hours on important roadworks is a joke. Penalty rates have made us uncompetitive. I get paid a rate Monday to Saturday with single loading Sunday or public holidays which is fine by me. My 14 y old was knocked back a after school job because they can offer 1.5 hours but Julia changed it to a minimum 2 hours.

I was hesistant about workchoices but can’t wait for them to bring it back.

General 2:07 pm 03 Jul 13

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Go move to China then. I’m assuming you’re a shift worker, working outside all day. No, you would be an office worker making comments from his 8-4 M – F job who has been inconvenienced by road works.

dtc 2:03 pm 03 Jul 13

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Thats cos they employ about 5000 workers at a time. Feel free to increase your tax contribution.

Chop71 1:58 pm 03 Jul 13

toot toot ….
oh that’s another “project”

Pork Hunt 12:03 pm 03 Jul 13

Affirmative Action Man said :

Its all pathetic. In China they would have completed it in about 3 weeks. And why on earth don’t they keep working around the clock or at least until midnight with lights on. We are so uncompetitive in this country that eventually we will be swamped by the more efficient Asians.

Do you also want the third world living conditions that these Asians enjoy or should they leave those at home?
Pollution in Beijing and fires in Indonesia come to mind…

HiddenDragon 11:36 am 03 Jul 13

“Use Alternative Route” is an annoying waste of space – when it’s added to signs giving notice well in advance of roadworks, it’s a statement of the bleeding obvious, and when it’s on signs advising of roadworks which you don’t know about until you’re caught in snail’s pace traffic, and the alternative routes are already behind you, it’s just adding insult to injury.

KB1971 10:18 am 03 Jul 13

Whinge, whinge……ride a bike. Pretty well roadwork free & cyclepaths all the way from Weston to everywhere.

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