Do we need an integrated traffic management system?

damien haas said :

There is a whole raft of very poor technical and planning decisions made by Roads ACT. Ive often wondered why with all thw continuing expense of thw GDE, there are still traffic lights where it passes over the Barton Highway, Ginninderra Drive and Belconnen Way.

Logically all four MAJOR roads would be better served if traffic flow was uninterrupted, but no, traffic lights to access the GDE go on and off with no real algorithm. Its easy to mock the cloverleaf flyovers of the US highway system, but at least the traffic keeps moving.

I’ve often wondered why the only cloverleaf in the whole system is from Barton Hwy onto the GDE heading towards mitchell. The answer from Roads ACT would probably be something to do with cost, but considering what they’ve been willing to spend on the abomination so far……?

There is a whole raft of very poor technical and planning decisions made by Roads ACT. Ive often wondered why with all thw continuing expense of thw GDE, there are still traffic lights where it passes over the Barton Highway, Ginninderra Drive and Belconnen Way.

Logically all four MAJOR roads would be better served if traffic flow was uninterrupted, but no, traffic lights to access the GDE go on and off with no real algorithm. Its easy to mock the cloverleaf flyovers of the US highway system, but at least the traffic keeps moving.

troll-sniffer said :

Just as a teensy weensy spanner in the works for the synchronised lights brigade… can anyone with a grasp on reality and with their head not up their theoretical arse please inform the forum how you propose to get synchronisation in both directions of a major arterial road? If you get a synchro wave going in one direction, it will certainly not work as one for the cars going the opposite way.

Think about

That was unnecessarily pejorative, I think!

I don’t think anybody’s arguing that it will work in both directions simultaneously. It works in the major traffic flow direction. In Sydney it’s dynamic, so phasing changes depending on the need of the area at a given time, not just some rubbish programmed from a clock. That is what SCATS is, if you’d read the link.

Time to reevaluate heads and arses, troll-sniffer.

I have pointed out here [on RA] before that there was a rather expensive study done on the traffic of ants and how that could be used to improve our own traffic systems. Results?? None that I’m aware of except a large chunk of money given to a dumbass to sit and watch ants all day. The fact that they can “drive” over each other in a front collision situation is a big advantage to what we put up with and they all respect the queen so much they wouldn’t dare disobey the rules.
Seriously though, there are lots of lights out there which have a “time of day” sequence, where they seem to let major roads have the priority, but this also applies on weekends. I’ve sat at intersections for up to 2 minutes waiting for nobody whilst the red light smirks at my frustration. Then there’s also the major thoroughfares that go red for…..well, inconvenience I suppose, as no cars come through but flags you down just for the heck of it.
Let’s bugger off the lights and let everyone fend for themselves, I’ll get to work much quicker that way. Just have to get that job working for an aerospace technologies company who’ll give me a fly-in-fly-out option as part of the package.

troll-sniffer said :

If you get a synchro wave going in one direction, it will certainly not work as one for the cars going the opposite way.

Only if you stick with convention. It is possible to have two ‘waves’ going in opposite directions. Not saying it will work, just saying it’s possible!

Traffic management is one of those things where everyone thinks it’s done poorly. But I’m sure if you spent a few days learning about it you’d be like… “Ohhhhhhhhhh riiiiiiiight! Duh!”

Still, I can’t escape the feeling that the infrastructure is locked in a time warp – surely there are modern solutions to the problems and constraints the system presents.

Just as a teensy weensy spanner in the works for the synchronised lights brigade… can anyone with a grasp on reality and with their head not up their theoretical arse please inform the forum how you propose to get synchronisation in both directions of a major arterial road? If you get a synchro wave going in one direction, it will certainly not work as one for the cars going the opposite way.

Think about

One day the ACT Government and Roads ACT will move into the 21st Century. There is virtually no effort or ability in this city to even attempt to coordinate the traffic lights to make traffic flow smoothly which means almost every arterial road with multiple sets of traffic lights are stop and start all the way along.

I now avoid Yamba Dr between Isaacs and Hughes whenever possible due to the traffic lights adding 5+ minutes to the journey as you stop at each set. Northbourne Avenue is the same, if not worse. Then you add in the intersections where the light sequence is too short to clear the traffic and the ones where you and the other traffic wait for 5 minutes while the opposite direction stays green for zero traffic and the shemozzle is complete.

I’m not really holding my breath with hope that things might change with the current government and departments.

gentoopenguin, thats germany for you! Here in Australia cars are bad. Cars are evil and drivers should be punished.I would not be surprised if they put in a priority bike crossing traffic light before they even start to realize the benefits of an intelligent traffic system.

damien haas said :

Some traffic lights seem totally unnecesary, i think there are several sets on Ginninderra Drive that could be replced by a roundabout, benefitiing everyone. A new set of lights has just been installed in Kaleen, which would have been better as a roundabout. In fact, im noticing a general trend away from roundabouts to traffic lights.

Even better Damian some of the ‘new’ intersections shouldn’t have been built. Same too with the ‘new’ one on Gungahlin Drive near Mitchell going into Harrison (I think).

Major roads like Ginninderra Drive should feed main roads that go around a suburb, not into the middle of the suburb. It cuts down on the number of roads off the main road.

Having spent most of my life in Germany, I can only recommend Aussie (and in particular, ACT) traffic planners having a look overseas. “Intelligent” traffic lights have been the standard there for many years. Without these, German traffic within the major cities would have collapsed by now. The so called “green wave” also rewards drivers for driving at or just below the speed limit: You get one set of green lights after the next. Speeding won’t help because the lights would still be red once you arrive. And, as beejay76 mentioned correctly, there is quite an environmental effect too – the green wave lowers pollution, petrol use and noise … and, drivers are less stressed!

Btw, is there ANYONE in ACT Government reading RIOTACT? I so would not care about them snapping up the online community’s excellent ideas … if they only DID something …

Some traffic lights seem totally unnecesary, i think there are several sets on Ginninderra Drive that could be replced by a roundabout, benefitiing everyone. A new set of lights has just been installed in Kaleen, which would have been better as a roundabout. In fact, im noticing a general trend away from roundabouts to traffic lights.

Spectra said :

It got me thinking about the light phasing. In Sydney, there’s a system called SCATS which manages the phasing of traffic lights to maximise the even flow of traffic. I’m guessing we don’t have anything like that in Canberra.

Yeah, if only we had something like that. (3rd paragraph, in case you’re not much for reading).

…I used to travel up Drakeford drive and onto the parkway…

Because I’m sure nobody’s ever even thought about that….

Seriously people, 5 minutes with Google.

Thanks for the link. It confirms there is no coordination along those major roads. Every time a car approaches from a side street, the entire main thoroughfare is brought to a halt. Most irritating. At one intersection on Gininderra, I watched it go red (from my position pulling out of the previous red light) because a single car had arrived from a side street. There were about 20 cars halted along Gininderra to allow a single car minimal waiting time.

I bet you the person who came up with that acronym is having a good chuckle… Seriously the “S” (Sydney) was not necessary.

I some cases simple sensors could improve things a lot. I often have the problem of turning onto a road where there is no traffic. The light stays red until some traffic finally appears, at which time the light changes to stop them and let me through.

So SCATS is supposed to stop you getting the s***s? 🙂

Damn you, captainwhorebags. How am I meant to beat you to posting the same information if you don’t spend as much time as me adding snarky comments?

It got me thinking about the light phasing. In Sydney, there’s a system called SCATS which manages the phasing of traffic lights to maximise the even flow of traffic. I’m guessing we don’t have anything like that in Canberra.

Yeah, if only we had something like that. (3rd paragraph, in case you’re not much for reading).

…I used to travel up Drakeford drive and onto the parkway…

Because I’m sure nobody’s ever even thought about that….

Seriously people, 5 minutes with Google.

This will answer your questions, including an explanation of why it may appear that lights are not co-ordinated at peak times on Drakeford Drive.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/roads/traffic/trafficsignals

Many years ago when I lived in south Tuggers, I used to travel up Drakeford drive and onto the parkway. I worked out that if you sat on 80km/h, you couldn’t get more than a couple of sets of lights green in a row. If, however, you started at the right time, and travelled at 95km/h, you could do the entire thing with green lights.

And I never got a ticket once.

Having smarter phasing of traffic lights to maximise traffic flow should be a given.

I’ve said it here before, traffic lights in their current form are technological dinosaurs. They essentially have not changed decades with the exception of going to LEDs. I’m amazed that there’s been barely any innovation in that whole time.

Sometimes they seem malicious – there’s just no way they could randomly be THAT bad.

In a previous thread here I think there was some discussion of a few managed sets of lights in the city.