Drink driving the new black?

Why not drink low alcohol beer?

tylersmayhem said :

isn’t it about time we looked at where and when we can buy our alcohol!!!!

Oh Jeebus, please no! Isn’t it about time we just look at personal decisions and responsibility?

nah, it isn’t the individual’s decision to drink, it is society’s. the shop / pub holds a gun to your head so you have no choice to buy or drink the grog…

please.

I don’t drink. my choice.

want to avoid being done DUI? don’t drink and drive.

couple of tradies i know wait till they get home for a coldie. or they get a different guy each day to be designated driver. for a tradie, lose your license, can’t work, can’t get paid.

or spend hours on buses or taxis. is that worth it?

isn’t it about time we looked at where and when we can buy our alcohol!!!!

Oh Jeebus, please no! Isn’t it about time we just look at personal decisions and responsibility?

drink driving is on the rise but why ?????? my partner was recently done for low level drink driving after 2 beers at lunch then drove home his own stupidity he admits …but a valid comment he made was that he is a tradie and most tradies enjoy a beer or two too many but the problem is that he can buy beer wine sprints what ever he wants on his way to work at 7/8am in the morning isn’t it about time we looked at where and when we can buy our alcohol!!!!

Very true, could have haunted you for the rest of your life! Did your insurance skyrocket? Having to write it on forms would be embarrassing I imagine. Lucky your 10 years has clocked up.

I think my parents were more embarrassed than me at the time. My insurance did not change, in fact it has never been required to report it to them. If I had been in an accident, they would have not insured me, the other party and would most likely wipe their hands of me for good.

Very true, could have haunted you for the rest of your life! Did your insurance skyrocket? Having to write it on forms would be embarrassing I imagine. Lucky your 10 years has clocked up.

@handlebar: yes I got a conviction, 6 months off the road and a fine. Just gone 10 years ago, so it’s a charge I can finally omit in applications, sec. clearances etc.

It was such a reckless and stupid thing to do. But at the time I seriously always drove out knowing full well I’d get plastered, then drive home! Bad bad bad! The fine I paid could have stumped up quite a few cab fares.

I still scares me when I think “what if I happened to run over someone that night, what if I ran down the policeman that pulled me over at the RBT and they died. I’d quite possibly still be behind bars!

I think I got off quite lightly when you consider those things.

That’s good advice, thanks tylersmayhem. Did you get a conviction?

@Ari: good to hear that the cops are being quite assertive these days with doing random checks with drivers. Based on recent stats outlining the number of unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured drivers etc, it sounds like it’s very necessary.

I figure if you’re doing the right thing, people should be completely supporting the Police’s efforts. I’d just expect the police to be cool about it too (as mentioned by Ari that they were).

Thumbs up from me too!

The same survey asks about how safe people feel in their homes. If the response level is that people feel safer than the national average then the police are doing a good job

…or the criminals are doing a poor one!

we’ve talked about cycling / public transport / etc on this site ad infinitum, but how many people don’t consider these options for going out – a few more ‘locals’ would be the way to go, as matto suggests. but cycling is a great way to get to ‘out’ and it usually isn’t as far as work…

He’s not sure if he should get a lawyer or not.

If it’s out of character and his first offence, my advise would be to not bother with a solicitor. He will be paying a large fee to a solicitor to basically admit on his behalf that he was caught drink driving.

Rock up, admit to the wrong doing and show that he has thought long and hard about the seriousness of what he has done.

He will most likely be charged and issued with a a fairly hefty fine and time off the road. If he get a solicitor, he’ll pay their fee + a fairly hefty fine and time off the road. I’d only consider a solicitor in his case if it was a complex case (additional charges by the police i.e. resisting arrest, hit and run etc.)

As long as your mate sincerely learns from his actions, like I did, front up and take it on the chin and just don’t do it again.

The cops pulled me over this morning … not for a breath test, but to check I was licenced.

They actually do seem to have been putting resources into traffic matters apart from speeding and breath testing lately.

This morning’s blitz did seem to have found some miscreants … looked like tradies to me.

The cop I dealt with was quite pleasant, too.

Thumbs up from me.

I’ve noticed more police RBTs at more appropriate times. I also know someone who was done (it was out of character but still shocking as the reading was just over .15). He’s not sure if he should get a lawyer or not.

burns club is 2km from my place. easy stagger home.

Fair point Peterh, but the Burns club is hardly on par with the type of establishment All Bar Nun used to be. If we all simply wanted somewhere to get pissed, I’d head down to the club at Charny.

Matto said :

The above quote didn’t quite work out like it was meant to. But I’m sure you’ll get the drift.

burns club is 2km from my place. easy stagger home. don’t drink when I go out and am driving, but then again, after my internal “offal” started to gang up on me, I don’t drink that often….

have been RBT’d a couple of times, but not in the last 12-months.

don’t think I would set foot in the Kambah inn, though. a Guy in a suit is pretty rare, there.

“Tell you what, it’s a breath of fresh air to have a copper on here who isn’t a class A dickhead. Actually knows what he’s talking about without the need to bignote or call blokes out if they disagree. Ups to Cman.”

Praising another person on this site!

thecman YOU SUCK!

Now that should even things out a bit.

The above quote didn’t quite work out like it was meant to. But I’m sure you’ll get the drift.

I think Canberra is also unique in that there are very few suburban bars/pubs. Other than some of the more upper-class suburbs (Kingston, Manuka, O’Connor, Lyneham etc) there really is just such little choice. We need more bars like what All Bar Nun used to be, scattered around other suburbs of Canberra.

Thoughts?!

Great proposition. Probably wouldn’t cut down on the DUI’s though. Just people would have lesser distance to drive drunk.
It would be nice to pop into the local on the way home for a frosty schooie if it had the atmosphere of ABN. Nothing worse than showing up to a tavern and being bombarded with the old “what they hell are you doing walking in here?” stares from the drunken bar flies.

I also agree with C man that it is no excuse to drive drunk – but, I was charged with drink driving many years ago and the reason I did it – I was young, didn’t REALLY consider the danger I was to others, and it just cost too damned much to catch a taxi whenever I went out. And that was when cab prices were half what they are now. It’s just a perspective I’m offering here.

I think Canberra is also unique in that there are very few suburban bars/pubs. Other than some of the more upper-class suburbs (Kingston, Manuka, O’Connor, Lyneham etc) there really is just such little choice. We need more bars like what All Bar Nun used to be, scattered around other suburbs of Canberra.

Thoughts?!

You obviously have not got the hang of this site yet thecman. Inserting facts into a discussion is a big no-no.

I thought Mary Porter’s “thank you” messages was a nice touch. I am sure she will have them taken down in due time.

Careful thecman – your quote suggests this theory started with me, where is did not. But I do agree with it.

Tell you what, it’s a breath of fresh air to have a copper on here who isn’t a class A dickhead. Actually knows what he’s talking about without the need to bignote or call blokes out if they disagree. Ups to Cman.

Theories are very nice but facts are what really count. There are two types of RBT strategy, high volume / high visibility and low volume / targeted. If The Academy offering free entry to over 25’s is (allegedly) as Tylersmayhem suggests a cause of the ‘spike’ in high range drink driving detections, that would suggest the offences are being committed late at night or in the early hours of the morning when the night clubs are operating. That they are being detected indicates Police are undertaking low visibility / targeted RBT – the primary purpose of which is to catch offenders. The type of RBT Tylersmayhem has been subjected to would be consistent with the high volume / high visibility testing – the primary purpose of which is to act as a deterrent.

I agree that the late night public transport system in Canberra is very average but that does not excuse people from filling themselves with alcohol and then getting behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. Indeed the whole issue of alcohol consumption is one requiring much greater attention by Government – can guarantee that at least 50% (probably more) of crime committed in this town is alcohol related, which puts the impact of drugs into a proper context.

Hmm… A surge in drink driving in the same period the Academy is offering free entry to over 25s.

A coincidence? I think not.

Very good point there Deano!

I’ve been breathalysed 2 or 3 times since the beginning of the year, but always in the morning or around lunch on a weekday. This seems to fit in well with some of the theories presented earlier on this thread.

Another consideration to make here…queue lack of public transport late at night and the disgraceful cost of taxi arguments.

Maybe instead of having a blitz with 8 officers pulling over traffic you can have four blitzes (blitzi? blitzen?) with contractors doing the testing and two constabulary there to provide enforcement.

Almost similar to the vehicle inspection setups – mostly inspectors there from R.U.S. and a few cops on cars/bikes.

Bigfeet is spot on regarding the time taken to process a person for a PCA offence. Even in the best of circumstances the testing and subsequent paperwork will take an experienced Police Officer a minimum of 60 – 90 mins – and that’s probably optimistic.

Interesting idea about using private contractors or other govt employees to undertake RBT – fairly consistent with the growing trend toward privatisation and / or securitisation of traditional law enforcement functions. Not sure how it would work when the drunk driver decides he is not going to comply with the contractor’s instructions though – a not uncommon occurence.

GregW said :

Why does processing a drink driver take so long anyway?

My (very limited) understanding is that they have to be taken to the station, observed for twenty minutes (to eliminate mouth alcohol). There are a few standard questions that need to be asked. The test itself takes next to no time. The rest of the time is taken up with administrative and paperwork.

But again, this is just my limited understanding. I’m sure one of the regular cops onsite could give a more detailed answer.

bigfeet said :

What does “self-report” mean?

Basically they conduct a survey in the community and ask “Have you ever driven whilst over the limit in the past 12 months?”. If the number of people who respond “yes” is below the national average then the police are doing a good job. Therefore RBT testing is not about catching drunk drivers but acting as a deterrent to drink driving. Same with the ad campaigns and roadside signs etc. The idea is to reduce the number of drunk drivers in total, not to try to catch them all.

The same survey asks about how safe people feel in their homes. If the response level is that people feel safer than the national average then the police are doing a good job, irrespective of how many crimes they solve.

My (probably naive) thoughts on the matter is that the government wants to appear tough on drink driving but believes that it would be unacceptable (economically) to suspend so many licenses.

What about taking RBT responsibility away from police and to a model similar to the roadside speed vans? Private contractors or government employees would perform RBTs frequently, fines would be issued by mail to those caught with small excesses. Police are called in for extreme cases / BAC accuracy disputes etc, but in general no police written reports necessary. It may not be as profitable as the speed vans, but if it would pay for itself, I don’t think many (sober) drivers would mind being tested every few weeks.

Why does processing a drink driver take so long anyway?

thecman and bigfoot are on the money with this one. Govt wants numbers of tests. Newspapers report increases in drink driving when tests are low and people caught are high as is the result from targetted testing – this looks bad so govt requests lots of tests – back to square one – doing tests to get numbers. Gotta love perceptions.

thecman said :

KPI 26 requires that the percentage of persons in the ACT who self-report to driving while suspecting they are over the 0.05 alcohol limit is at or below the national average.

What does “self-report” mean?

In FY2007/2008 ACT Policing conducted 81,124 random breath tests with 1584 ‘positive’ results returned. Just because you have not seen Police doing RBT or been tested yourself does not mean it does not happen. Spend a couple of hours in the ACT Magistrates Court on any given day and you will see the procession of punters being processed through the system as a result of being picked up care of RBT.

As Bigfeet correctly states the number of RBT’s conducted by Police is driven by Key Performance Indicator (KPI) 26 in the 2007/2008 ACT Police Purchase Agreement. KPI 26 requires that the percentage of persons in the ACT who self-report to driving while suspecting they are over the 0.05 alcohol limit is at or below the national average.

Two types of RBT are conducted – high volume/high visibility random breath testing, and low volume targeted breath testing in areas where high numbers of drink drivers are usually apprehended – read near licensed establishments.

It was explained like this to me once, and it seems to make sense:

The ACT police must perform a set number of tests each year, it is part of their reporting/performance agreement with the ACT Legislative Assembly.

Catching and processing a drink driver takes two police off the road for a couple of hours, and during that time they are not testing anyone. If they stay on the road, they can do a hundred more tests.

So booze-bus blitzes are carried out a times and locations with high traffic flow, but when/where there is little chance of someone actually being over, say 11am on a Tuesday.

Bungle said :

Well I think I’ve been breathalised once in the past 2 years. Maybe a few more crackdowns could help.

It’s been only once in 4 or 5 years (maybe even more) for me and then it was Qbn cops doing a breath test. I drive approx 6 hours a day.

Hmm… A surge in drink driving in the same period the Academy is offering free entry to over 25s.

A coincidence? I think not.

Got to be a few years since I was breathalised, the Canberra keystone cops are seriously under resourced.

At best they are conducting sporadic small patch policing, and reactionary at the best of times.

As commented above, I do above average K’s, 40,000 or so each year, and I haven’t been breathalized in 4 years. In fact, it isn’t luck of the draw, I never see them!
I did, however, nearly get hit by a Commodore Friday evening that had a 3 yr old steering.
On a busy main road in Kambah.
Luckily his Mum & Dad had their seat belts on. Parenting at it’s best.

i’m a p plater, and i drive home from work at like midnight on friday/saturday nights, and i havent ever been breathalised!

go figure?

Well I think I’ve been breathalised once in the past 2 years. Maybe a few more crackdowns could help.

An interesting story which has been trivialised by JB’s closing sentence. Personally I would be interested in knowing more about the drivers detected with such high-range blood alcohol readings. Were they male or female, age, what time were they detected etc. On JB’s comment – well clearly they are ‘on top of it’ because these drivers were detected and arrested. Not sure how the Police are expected to prevent drink driving other then by detecting and charging offenders. Now if you want to look at responsible service of alcohol and/or friends looking after each other that is a whole different issue.