Fed up with emergency service vehicles behaving like morons

gazket said :

ScienceRules said :

gazket said :

it’s true . I see Fire trucks using their siren to get smoko. Happens at the same time every morning around 10ish

Well if you did see that, you’d be able to report it and the driver (and Station Officer) in the vehicle would be disciplined under the Emergencies Act, or Road Traffic Act or even just ACTFB policy. But since you didn’t see it and you just made it up, I guess you wont.

I will take a video next time Bozo. I work on sites all around Canberra and I hear the sirens. It happens same time every day for a few days in a row, then there’s a lul then back again same time a few days later.

why would I report it ?

You mean you hear sirens? In an urban area? At irregular intervals? Yes you should totally definately get a video of a fire engine with it’s lights and sirens on. Because, weeee!

The issue is that you’ve accused firefighters of misusing their privelage of urgent duty driving to go on “smoko”. You’ve provided no evidence to back up this smear. Nor can you.

Stevian said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

carpediem said :

In the ACT two (2) fire engines are dispatched to every emergency call because that’s their policy – end of story. Therefore it is extremely common for the second engine to be called back to its station mid-journey, after the attending engine (the first one arriving at the emergency) has made its assessment.

From what I understand, the driver of the fire engine has the authority to decide himself when lights and sirens need to be used, based on extensive training for exactly that scenario.

magiccar9 needs to suck it up and lose the “where’s mine and why isn’t it bigger” attitude.

pshhh what would you know!!!

THESE PEOPLE LIKE OP AND GAZKET HAVE SEEN THE POLICE AND FIRE TRUCKS ABUSE THEIR POWERS TO GET STUCK IN TRAFFIC QUICKER AND GET SOME FOOD(why the hell do they get lunch breaks on our tax dollars anyways???? who the heck do they think they are?!!!), THEY MAY NOT HAVE EVIDENCE BUT WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

Only to you in your fantasy world

Most things just fly straight over you, dont they?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

carpediem said :

In the ACT two (2) fire engines are dispatched to every emergency call because that’s their policy – end of story. Therefore it is extremely common for the second engine to be called back to its station mid-journey, after the attending engine (the first one arriving at the emergency) has made its assessment.

From what I understand, the driver of the fire engine has the authority to decide himself when lights and sirens need to be used, based on extensive training for exactly that scenario.

magiccar9 needs to suck it up and lose the “where’s mine and why isn’t it bigger” attitude.

pshhh what would you know!!!

THESE PEOPLE LIKE OP AND GAZKET HAVE SEEN THE POLICE AND FIRE TRUCKS ABUSE THEIR POWERS TO GET STUCK IN TRAFFIC QUICKER AND GET SOME FOOD(why the hell do they get lunch breaks on our tax dollars anyways???? who the heck do they think they are?!!!), THEY MAY NOT HAVE EVIDENCE BUT WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

Only to you in your fantasy world

ScienceRules said :

gazket said :

it’s true . I see Fire trucks using their siren to get smoko. Happens at the same time every morning around 10ish

Well if you did see that, you’d be able to report it and the driver (and Station Officer) in the vehicle would be disciplined under the Emergencies Act, or Road Traffic Act or even just ACTFB policy. But since you didn’t see it and you just made it up, I guess you wont.

I will take a video next time Bozo. I work on sites all around Canberra and I hear the sirens. It happens same time every day for a few days in a row, then there’s a lul then back again same time a few days later.

why would I report it ?

ScienceRules said :

gazket said :

it’s true . I see Fire trucks using their siren to get smoko. Happens at the same time every morning around 10ish

Well if you did see that, you’d be able to report it and the driver (and Station Officer) in the vehicle would be disciplined under the Emergencies Act, or Road Traffic Act or even just ACTFB policy. But since you didn’t see it and you just made it up, I guess you wont.

+1

carpediem said :

In the ACT two (2) fire engines are dispatched to every emergency call because that’s their policy – end of story. Therefore it is extremely common for the second engine to be called back to its station mid-journey, after the attending engine (the first one arriving at the emergency) has made its assessment.

From what I understand, the driver of the fire engine has the authority to decide himself when lights and sirens need to be used, based on extensive training for exactly that scenario.

magiccar9 needs to suck it up and lose the “where’s mine and why isn’t it bigger” attitude.

pshhh what would you know!!!

THESE PEOPLE LIKE OP AND GAZKET HAVE SEEN THE POLICE AND FIRE TRUCKS ABUSE THEIR POWERS TO GET STUCK IN TRAFFIC QUICKER AND GET SOME FOOD(why the hell do they get lunch breaks on our tax dollars anyways???? who the heck do they think they are?!!!), THEY MAY NOT HAVE EVIDENCE BUT WHEN YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

gazket said :

it’s true . I see Fire trucks using their siren to get smoko. Happens at the same time every morning around 10ish

Well if you did see that, you’d be able to report it and the driver (and Station Officer) in the vehicle would be disciplined under the Emergencies Act, or Road Traffic Act or even just ACTFB policy. But since you didn’t see it and you just made it up, I guess you wont.

Ozi said :

Yes, I sometimes feel dumb when the cars we have just passed at speed pull up next to us at the next red light, but ultimately it is part of the job.

Not as embarrassing as passing cars under lights, only to have them pass you again up the next hill (while still responding). NSW RFS tankers don’t go that fast. 🙁

Aeek said :

My current hate is heading south on the Parkway, turning off to Woden.
Can now turn left from the traffic lights as well as the slip lane.
This is defeated by the unthinking drivers in the slip lane who insist on giving way, needlessly.
Aaaaaaaaaaaagh.

+1 for unlimited frustration.

I’m not sure how it is in the ACT but in some other states if the lights + siren are activated its logged and needs an official reason to accompany it. Lights only, I’m not sure if its logged.

In the ACT two (2) fire engines are dispatched to every emergency call because that’s their policy – end of story. Therefore it is extremely common for the second engine to be called back to its station mid-journey, after the attending engine (the first one arriving at the emergency) has made its assessment.

From what I understand, the driver of the fire engine has the authority to decide himself when lights and sirens need to be used, based on extensive training for exactly that scenario.

magiccar9 needs to suck it up and lose the “where’s mine and why isn’t it bigger” attitude.

gazket said :

it’s true . I see Fire trucks using their siren to get smoko. Happens at the same time every morning around 10ish

I shudder to think what you see mate.

it’s true . I see Fire trucks using their siren to get smoko. Happens at the same time every morning around 10ish

IrishPete said :

KeenGolfer said :

IP, the pursuit and urgent duty guidelines are freely available on the AFP website for all to read.

Thank you – I quote:
” 14 c. The performance of urgent duty driving will be notified to Police Communications (with the
exception of that associated with a routine traffic stop) at the first available opportunity.”

I rest my case.

IP

So? What you said is still wrong. They are not asking for permission to go lights/sirens, they are simply notifying communications as to what they are doing. Completely different animal.

IrishPete said :

KeenGolfer said :

IP, the pursuit and urgent duty guidelines are freely available on the AFP website for all to read.

Thank you – I quote:
” 14 c. The performance of urgent duty driving will be notified to Police Communications (with the
exception of that associated with a routine traffic stop) at the first available opportunity.”

I rest my case.

IP

I have to say, that says notify, not ask permission to do it.

KeenGolfer said :

IP, the pursuit and urgent duty guidelines are freely available on the AFP website for all to read.

Thank you – I quote:
” 14 c. The performance of urgent duty driving will be notified to Police Communications (with the
exception of that associated with a routine traffic stop) at the first available opportunity.”

I rest my case.

IP

IP, the pursuit and urgent duty guidelines are freely available on the AFP website for all to read.

ADW said :

AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES – REG 305
Exemption for drivers of police vehicles
305 Exemption for drivers of police vehicles

(1) A provision of the Australian Road Rules does not apply to the driver of a police vehicle if:
(a) in the circumstances:
(i) the driver is taking reasonable care, and
(ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not apply, and
(b) if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving-the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.
Note: “Motor vehicle” and “police vehicle” are defined in the dictionary.
(2) Subrule (1) (b) does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable:
(a) not to display the light or sound the alarm, or
(b) for the vehicle not to be fitted or equipped with a blue or red flashing light or an alarm.

AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES – REG 306
306—Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles

A provision of the Australian Road Rules does not apply to the driver of an emergency vehicle if:

(a)

in the circumstances:

(i)

the driver is taking reasonable care; and

(ii)

it is reasonable that the rule should not apply; and

(b)

if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving—the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.

Note—

“Emergency vehicle” and “motor vehicle” are defined in the dictionary.

Is this a response to me? if so, it doesn’t answer the question. That’s the law, and I’m well aware of the law. But what are the police procedures that resuted in someone saying I was “Completely and utterly incorrect in relation to police”?

IP

AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES – REG 305
Exemption for drivers of police vehicles
305 Exemption for drivers of police vehicles

(1) A provision of the Australian Road Rules does not apply to the driver of a police vehicle if:
(a) in the circumstances:
(i) the driver is taking reasonable care, and
(ii) it is reasonable that the provision should not apply, and
(b) if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving-the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.
Note: “Motor vehicle” and “police vehicle” are defined in the dictionary.
(2) Subrule (1) (b) does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable:
(a) not to display the light or sound the alarm, or
(b) for the vehicle not to be fitted or equipped with a blue or red flashing light or an alarm.

AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES – REG 306
306—Exemption for drivers of emergency vehicles

A provision of the Australian Road Rules does not apply to the driver of an emergency vehicle if:

(a) in the circumstances:

(i) the driver is taking reasonable care; and

(ii) it is reasonable that the rule should not apply; and

(b) if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving—the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.

Note—

“Emergency vehicle” and “motor vehicle” are defined in the dictionary.

KeenGolfer said :

IrishPete said :

Incidentally, my own experience is that we/they are not allowed activate lights and sirens without permission from higher up – “self-responding” is frowned upon, unless you see the emergency before the call is received, and you call in and get permission for what you are already doing.

Completely and utterly incorrect in relation to police – don’t know how the other two services operate.

Fair enough. My experience is with the rural fire service, and we certainly don’t self-respond without calling it in simultaneously. I’d be interested to know in what circumstances police can “self-respond”. There was am incident in Goulburn a couple of years back where they got in a lot of trouble for it, cos someone died as a result of a collision with a police vehicle. It was suspected police cars were competing (racing) to arrive first at the scene of a not very serious crime. Can’t find a URL right now… (I know that’s NSW, but generally police rules are similar between States and Territories).

IP

I’ve seen this happen a few times, especially on Northbourne. Given how hard it is to get down Northbourne in peak I would expect that those emergency vehicles would be regularly substituted as soon as another vehicle is closer to the emergency.

Even if the sirens are being abused though, who cares, a lot of drivers could use the incident as a lesson to move to the left and/or out of the way. And only a fool would ever treat the sirens and lights as crying wolf.

magiccar9 said :

Clearly most people have missed the point of what I was saying.
It wasn’t the fact that they turned off the siren and continued their hurry to the emergency. They turned off everything and slowed back down, stopping at the next set of lights in front of the queue.
Secondly, sure there’s the possibility they were dispatched and then cancelled – but then I ask the question, why is a dispatcher cancelling the call after 20 seconds (conveniently enough time to get through a traffic queue)? Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.
To those who actually read and understood the post, thank you. Obviously other people have had similar experiences. To the rest, don’t come crying to me when someone drives into you trying to move aside for one of these vehicles on a false call.
And finally, YES I am having a whinge, which I’m entitled to if if these vehicles aren’t following the rules like the rest of us do

There is a massive hole in your theory, which according to you they are using their lights and sirens to get through one intersection, but turn them off and stop at the next. Now why would they do that at one intersection but not the next. If they were in that much of a hurry they would go through the next too.

Simple fact is their emergency has probably been cancelled.

So suggest you go get a life, really.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Obviously, the only time EVER you activated lights was when your take away was getting cold 😉

Look, that Maccas is so much tastier when still hot. A bloke’s gotta eat! 😛

IrishPete said :

Incidentally, my own experience is that we/they are not allowed activate lights and sirens without permission from higher up – “self-responding” is frowned upon, unless you see the emergency before the call is received, and you call in and get permission for what you are already doing.

Completely and utterly incorrect in relation to police – don’t know how the other two services operate.

All the previous comments about jobs being cancelled and so on are valid.

But while it may not be legal, I would be quite happy for emergency services vehicles to ensure they are not stuck in traffic, so that if they DO get a call, they can respond immediately and not have to negotiate their way out of a traffic jam.

Incidentally, my own experience is that we/they are not allowed activate lights and sirens without permission from higher up – “self-responding” is frowned upon, unless you see the emergency before the call is received, and you call in and get permission for what you are already doing.

So if you think someone is abusing their position, make a note of time, date, place and vehicle, and report it at your leisure (not on 000!) and the driver and crew will be dealt with if they’ve been naughty.

IP

He had a tinfoil hat to attend to.

Ozi said :

CeeBee said :

What, you think they don’t like traffic and need to get to the shops quicker?

I suggest that you are only seeing a small part of the picture. The ‘morons’ in the fire truck would have been going to a fire call – something that they do day in and day out. Every call is different and the nature of the call dictates what resources go and from which stations. For example, a house fire may have up to five different trucks going depending on the information received (as well as ambos, AFP). These trucks generally come from multiple stations.

What you saw tonight was the second / third / fourth truck downgrading from ‘urgent duty driving’ to ‘roadspeed’ – that is, to drive at normal road conditions. This happens when the first truck arrives on site, investigates the incident, and finds that the risk at the incident is minimal. They may still require the other truck to come along (manpower, specialist equipment) but the risk is less that putting others at risk by incoming trucks driving with lights and sirens. An example of this may be a small fire in a house that has been extinguished with all occupants outside, but they still need to get rid of the smoke etc).

Being downgraded happens every day. I can’t tell you how many times this has happened whilst I have been going through an intersection, or as I have just come out of an intersection. Downgrades happen to all services.

I have been employed in emergency services for some 12 years, attending more than 500 a year. I have never been in a vehicle undertaking urgent duty driving when not going to a ‘Priority 1’ job. I have never forced myself through an intersection because I was sick and tired of the traffic and wanted to get out of there faster. Every red light or speed camera activation gets investigated too to make sure that the truck was going to a job. GPS tracking and job data allows this.

Urgent Duty Driving can be dangerous, and that is why coppers, firies and ambos do the driver training that they do.

There are still a lot of muppets on the road who drive on autopilot and can’t think or think it’s all a game – or want to believe that red and blue light Maccas and donut runs do happen…

Brava, CeeBee. As a similarly experienced emergency services worker (6 years) I can confirm that the single most dangerous task we do is not when we get to the job but the getting there.

On countless occasions we have been lights and sirens at speed to an urgent job when further information comes in, making us stop a “305 run” (rule 305 of the Australian Road Rules) and return to road speed and de-activate lights and sirens. Yes, I sometimes feel dumb when the cars we have just passed at speed pull up next to us at the next red light, but ultimately it is part of the job.

It is commendable that they are returning to road speed when it is no longer needed: both safer for them and for other drivers.

Obviously, the only time EVER you activated lights was when your take away was getting cold 😉

DavidL said :

Interesting to see the assumptions and assertions of the various replies. Wonderful explanations (some pertinent and valid but by no means all) as to WHY this might be legitimate, followed in some cases by abuse – always a good way to avoid logical thinking. Anyone is entitled to raise the question as to whether a misuse of legal process has occurred. Many of the critical (to put it politely) replies fail to use logical processes but use assumptions instead.

We always hope that abuse of process is limited to a small number of individuals in any profession but we should not assume it doesn’t occur – whether you are in the emergency services, the police, the medical profession and real estate – examples of all of this occurring can be found in Canberra newspapers and other media for the last three professions mentioned above. Go wider on the web and you will find lots more examples.

Most cases (an assumption here) will be what CeeBee has described – due to standby situations. But CeeBee mentioned something interesting “Every red light or speed camera activation gets investigated too to make sure that the truck was going to a job. GPS tracking and job data allows this.”

So what if – no assumptions here – I wanted to get through the traffic due to impatience. If I had a brain in my head and used my emergency lights and sirens, I would stop before I reached the next intersection so I wouldn’t get caught by red light or speed camera activation. Then do it again when I next encountered a traffic block. Whilst there might be very few who do this you would never be able to claim it doesn’t happen. Makes you think (I hope) doesn’t it?

Again, tin foilers not thinking.

Why would they? Can you give me a single reason why a emergency vehicle would be out just cruising, in a rush to get somewhere that is not a job, that they need to hit sirens and lights to save 5 seconds them just pull up at the next lights?

Again, I hope you never need these so called abusers of authority…

magiccar9 said :

Clearly most people have missed the point of what I was saying.
It wasn’t the fact that they turned off the siren and continued their hurry to the emergency. They turned off everything and slowed back down, stopping at the next set of lights in front of the queue.
Secondly, sure there’s the possibility they were dispatched and then cancelled – but then I ask the question, why is a dispatcher cancelling the call after 20 seconds (conveniently enough time to get through a traffic queue)? Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.
To those who actually read and understood the post, thank you. Obviously other people have had similar experiences. To the rest, don’t come crying to me when someone drives into you trying to move aside for one of these vehicles on a false call.
And finally, YES I am having a whinge, which I’m entitled to if if these vehicles aren’t following the rules like the rest of us do

You really are not very bright, are you?

I honestly hope you never have need of these services you are criticising for no reason other than jealous that their heroes work forces them to run red lights.

Interesting to see the assumptions and assertions of the various replies. Wonderful explanations (some pertinent and valid but by no means all) as to WHY this might be legitimate, followed in some cases by abuse – always a good way to avoid logical thinking. Anyone is entitled to raise the question as to whether a misuse of legal process has occurred. Many of the critical (to put it politely) replies fail to use logical processes but use assumptions instead. We always hope that abuse of process is limited to a small number of individuals in any profession but we should not assume it doesn’t occur – whether you are in the emergency services, the police, the medical profession and real estate – examples of all of this occurring can be found in Canberra newspapers and other media for the last three professions mentioned above. Go wider on the web and you will find lots more examples.

Most cases (an assumption here) will be what CeeBee has described – due to standby situations. But CeeBee mentioned something interesting “Every red light or speed camera activation gets investigated too to make sure that the truck was going to a job. GPS tracking and job data allows this.”

So what if – no assumptions here – I wanted to get through the traffic due to impatience. If I had a brain in my head and used my emergency lights and sirens, I would stop before I reached the next intersection so I wouldn’t get caught by red light or speed camera activation. Then do it again when I next encountered a traffic block. Whilst there might be very few who do this you would never be able to claim it doesn’t happen. Makes you think (I hope) doesn’t it?

magiccar9 said :

Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.

What do you think that the emergency services should do when an alarm goes off? Should they treat it as an emergency, or wait until they receive absolute confirmation that it’s an emergency before responding?

Those of us who have real world experience understand. A fire alarm goes off. The emergency services respond to a potential emergency; the engines are dispatched to get to the potential emergency as quickly as possible; the local fire wardens on the scene investigate and phone the emergency services to tell them that it appears to be a false alarm; the dispatcher notifies the fire engine on its way to the building with that info; the fire crew is still OBLIGED to attend, but now knows that it’s not an emergency and therefore turns off the lights/sirens etc.

Those of us without any real world experience whine on a discussion board about somebody getting ahead of them in the traffic.

CeeBee said :

What, you think they don’t like traffic and need to get to the shops quicker?

I suggest that you are only seeing a small part of the picture. The ‘morons’ in the fire truck would have been going to a fire call – something that they do day in and day out. Every call is different and the nature of the call dictates what resources go and from which stations. For example, a house fire may have up to five different trucks going depending on the information received (as well as ambos, AFP). These trucks generally come from multiple stations.

What you saw tonight was the second / third / fourth truck downgrading from ‘urgent duty driving’ to ‘roadspeed’ – that is, to drive at normal road conditions. This happens when the first truck arrives on site, investigates the incident, and finds that the risk at the incident is minimal. They may still require the other truck to come along (manpower, specialist equipment) but the risk is less that putting others at risk by incoming trucks driving with lights and sirens. An example of this may be a small fire in a house that has been extinguished with all occupants outside, but they still need to get rid of the smoke etc).

Being downgraded happens every day. I can’t tell you how many times this has happened whilst I have been going through an intersection, or as I have just come out of an intersection. Downgrades happen to all services.

I have been employed in emergency services for some 12 years, attending more than 500 a year. I have never been in a vehicle undertaking urgent duty driving when not going to a ‘Priority 1’ job. I have never forced myself through an intersection because I was sick and tired of the traffic and wanted to get out of there faster. Every red light or speed camera activation gets investigated too to make sure that the truck was going to a job. GPS tracking and job data allows this.

Urgent Duty Driving can be dangerous, and that is why coppers, firies and ambos do the driver training that they do.

There are still a lot of muppets on the road who drive on autopilot and can’t think or think it’s all a game – or want to believe that red and blue light Maccas and donut runs do happen…

Brava, CeeBee. As a similarly experienced emergency services worker (6 years) I can confirm that the single most dangerous task we do is not when we get to the job but the getting there.

On countless occasions we have been lights and sirens at speed to an urgent job when further information comes in, making us stop a “305 run” (rule 305 of the Australian Road Rules) and return to road speed and de-activate lights and sirens. Yes, I sometimes feel dumb when the cars we have just passed at speed pull up next to us at the next red light, but ultimately it is part of the job.

It is commendable that they are returning to road speed when it is no longer needed: both safer for them and for other drivers.

magiccar9 said :

Clearly most people have missed the point of what I was saying.
It wasn’t the fact that they turned off the siren and continued their hurry to the emergency. They turned off everything and slowed back down, stopping at the next set of lights in front of the queue.
Secondly, sure there’s the possibility they were dispatched and then cancelled – but then I ask the question, why is a dispatcher cancelling the call after 20 seconds (conveniently enough time to get through a traffic queue)? Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.
To those who actually read and understood the post, thank you. Obviously other people have had similar experiences. To the rest, don’t come crying to me when someone drives into you trying to move aside for one of these vehicles on a false call.
And finally, YES I am having a whinge, which I’m entitled to if if these vehicles aren’t following the rules like the rest of us do

Maybe when you’re this far in the hole you should just stop digging.

Calls to emergency services (let’s just use the ambos for an example) are prioritised and dispatched based on the first thing the call taker hears. If someone rings up and says “mum’s having breathing difficulties”, that’s a Priority 1, lights and sirens call. As you’d expect it to be, surely. The ambulance is dispatched on the job during the first couple of sentences made by the caller.

Then as the call taker asks more questions and they find out “yeah, she’s had this chesty cough for a couple of weeks now and we reckon she should go to the doctor but we spent all our dole money on VB and Winnie Blues and need a lift to the hospital”. The job is then downgraded to a lower priority and the crew switches off the noise maker and christmas lights and drops to road speed. Why is this so difficult to understand?

When they don’t have the lights/sirens on they are subject to the same road rules as everyone else so of course they stopped at the next traffic lights. Why would you expect them to do anything different? This happens ALL THE TIME. So yes, you would have seen it over and over. It’s more frustrating for the crew than for poor little you.

Ambos, firies and coppers are paid by the hour, not by the job so it doesn’t matter one whit to them if they get to blast through the next set of lights. If they aren’t on a job they are still at work and their time is the governments anyway.

And finally, they are following the rules, you numpty. Which has been explained to you carefully and on multiple occasions.

Secondly, sure there’s the possibility they were dispatched and then cancelled – but then I ask the question, why is a dispatcher cancelling the call after 20 seconds (conveniently enough time to get through a traffic queue)? Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.
/quote]

Its urgent until its not. It may also be a bad idea to stand down while part way through an intersection.

magiccar9 said :

Clearly most people have missed the point of what I was saying.
It wasn’t the fact that they turned off the siren and continued their hurry to the emergency. They turned off everything and slowed back down, stopping at the next set of lights in front of the queue.
Secondly, sure there’s the possibility they were dispatched and then cancelled – but then I ask the question, why is a dispatcher cancelling the call after 20 seconds (conveniently enough time to get through a traffic queue)? Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.
To those who actually read and understood the post, thank you. Obviously other people have had similar experiences. To the rest, don’t come crying to me when someone drives into you trying to move aside for one of these vehicles on a false call.
And finally, YES I am having a whinge, which I’m entitled to if if these vehicles aren’t following the rules like the rest of us do

Clearly you did not use your brain, why would they use their lights and sirens to get through traffic, just to turn them off and stop at the next intersection, why didn’t they just use their lights and sirens all the way to the pub?

Don’t come whinging to use when your house is burnt to the ground because the firies could not get there in time because they were caught in traffic.

Clearly most people have missed the point of what I was saying.
It wasn’t the fact that they turned off the siren and continued their hurry to the emergency. They turned off everything and slowed back down, stopping at the next set of lights in front of the queue.
Secondly, sure there’s the possibility they were dispatched and then cancelled – but then I ask the question, why is a dispatcher cancelling the call after 20 seconds (conveniently enough time to get through a traffic queue)? Surely they would do a little more checking before assigning a call.
To those who actually read and understood the post, thank you. Obviously other people have had similar experiences. To the rest, don’t come crying to me when someone drives into you trying to move aside for one of these vehicles on a false call.
And finally, YES I am having a whinge, which I’m entitled to if if these vehicles aren’t following the rules like the rest of us do

Maybe they were just trying to get to Black Thunder’s secret location before you.

We’d do better to teach the muppets amongst the normal drivers.
My current hate is heading south on the Parkway, turning off to Woden.
Can now turn left from the traffic lights as well as the slip lane.
This is defeated by the unthinking drivers in the slip lane who insist on giving way, needlessly.
Aaaaaaaaaaaagh.

Ambulances regularly drive down the centre of Northbourne Ave during peak hour, they usually only have lights and sirens on when approaching an intersection, before going up the curb again and dodging trees to get where ever they’re going.

I’m surprised nobody has made a ‘waaambulance’ joke yet.

After the thorough explanation from CeeBee, will the OP be dining on some humble pie and apologising for getting it quite wrong?

I’ve seen this too. There’s a lot of emergency services stuff at Fairbairn now. Before they put those bloody traffic lights in, people turning right out of Fairbairn during morning rush hour had a problem, and several of us who commute in from Quangers sometimes saw the cops, waiting to enter Pialligo Ave from Glenora Drive, get sick of it and activate their lights. Traffic would stop, they’d get onto the road, lights off, and proceed at normal speed. They didn’t try it at the big cross roads past the airport, they waited with all the other traffic.

So all the moral outrage in this topic seems to be based on the notion that it doesn’t happen. Well, it does.

A lot of these concerns would be alleviated if the emergency services were to replace their loud piercing sirens with a gentle rendition of “Greensleeves”. Failing that our next step should be to lobby Helen Watchirs, our resident Human Rights & Discrimination Commissioner.

Clearly the answer is that all emergency services vehicles should be converted into recumbent bicycles. That way they can use Canberra’s lovely bike path network to get everywhere and never shall OP’s drive have to be disturbed again.

It would seem magiccars car isn’t so magical after all. In the words of Colonel Kurtz “I’ve seen horrors, horrors that you’ve seen.Horror. Horror has a face…And you must make a friend of horror. Horror and emergency services are your friends.”

JimCharles said :

markbuzz said :

You sound like you have an issue with them turning off sirens as they head to emergencies and presume that they use the lights and sirens just to avoid the inconvenience of traffic.

The purpose of the lights and sirens is to make traffic etc aware that they are trying to get somewhere urgently, and that they will be exercising their ability to drive in a manner that might contravene standing laws and thus need the attention of drivers (I am sure there is a technical expression for this driving). They use the lights and sirens to clear an intersection or area of traffic and will turn them off when not needed, indeed it will be common to kill the sirens in urban areas or as they approach an accident scene.

With the lights and sirens off, proceeding at normal speed would be entirely appropriate and indeed expected – travelling well above the limit would call for the lights and possibly sirens.

The OP even says they stopped at the next intersection, so they obviously weren’t on a job or a rush to get anywhere, they were using the work vehicle to get out of a traffic jam because they didn’t fancy sitting in it with the rest of the proles.
I don’t know of any country (that isn’t a banana republic or Italy) where that’s morally acceptable.
Police and emergency must follow the same rules as the ones they’re appointed to manage, otherwise how do they expect to retain the authority and respect for what they do?
They work for the people and are appointed by “the people”, it’s not an authority issue at all.
Isn’t that a cornerstone of Australian philosophy…where you eliminate the bias of groups expecting special treatment for doing the same thing as everybody else?

Mate,
Looks like your tin foil hat might be slipping off. Better straighten it up.

The OP clearly has no understanding of either the rules governing the use of emergency vehicles or the specific circumstances of what these vehicles were responding to.

Perhaps when OP’s house is burning down or someone is attacking him/her with a carving knife, he/she might appreciate that the people who came to the rescue did not wait patiently in traffic for fear of upsetting any motorists who have “lights and sirens envy”.

JimCharles said :

markbuzz said :

You sound like you have an issue with them turning off sirens as they head to emergencies and presume that they use the lights and sirens just to avoid the inconvenience of traffic.

The purpose of the lights and sirens is to make traffic etc aware that they are trying to get somewhere urgently, and that they will be exercising their ability to drive in a manner that might contravene standing laws and thus need the attention of drivers (I am sure there is a technical expression for this driving). They use the lights and sirens to clear an intersection or area of traffic and will turn them off when not needed, indeed it will be common to kill the sirens in urban areas or as they approach an accident scene.

With the lights and sirens off, proceeding at normal speed would be entirely appropriate and indeed expected – travelling well above the limit would call for the lights and possibly sirens.

The OP even says they stopped at the next intersection, so they obviously weren’t on a job or a rush to get anywhere, they were using the work vehicle to get out of a traffic jam because they didn’t fancy sitting in it with the rest of the proles.
I don’t know of any country (that isn’t a banana republic or Italy) where that’s morally acceptable.
Police and emergency must follow the same rules as the ones they’re appointed to manage, otherwise how do they expect to retain the authority and respect for what they do?
They work for the people and are appointed by “the people”, it’s not an authority issue at all.
Isn’t that a cornerstone of Australian philosophy…where you eliminate the bias of groups expecting special treatment for doing the same thing as everybody else?

… Yes they did not want be be stuck in traffic so they turned on their lights so they could get to the next set of lights quicker so they could(wait foooorrrrrrr iiiiiiitttttt…….) get stuck in more traffic.

Makes perfect sense, genius.

OP is on the money, if I have to wait in traffic so should everyone else, who do these emergency service workers think they are? If the government was serious they would address the big problems like traffic jams and stop these cowboy police and firemen and paramedics hooning around for their own convenience.

Whenever the ferals are causing a ruckus in the Civic bus interchange the PoPo never scream into the interchange with lights and sirens engaged. Two reasons for this, they don’t want to alert their presence to the ferals & there are so many people wandering around the interchange with their heads up their bum they they would probably clean someone up.

That doesn’t mean that they don’t use them further up the road to get to Civic & then turn them off for the last bit for stealth.

Next time they try to get passed you with lights flashing, just sit there in protest and see what happens.

markbuzz said :

You sound like you have an issue with them turning off sirens as they head to emergencies and presume that they use the lights and sirens just to avoid the inconvenience of traffic.

The purpose of the lights and sirens is to make traffic etc aware that they are trying to get somewhere urgently, and that they will be exercising their ability to drive in a manner that might contravene standing laws and thus need the attention of drivers (I am sure there is a technical expression for this driving). They use the lights and sirens to clear an intersection or area of traffic and will turn them off when not needed, indeed it will be common to kill the sirens in urban areas or as they approach an accident scene.

With the lights and sirens off, proceeding at normal speed would be entirely appropriate and indeed expected – travelling well above the limit would call for the lights and possibly sirens.

The OP even says they stopped at the next intersection, so they obviously weren’t on a job or a rush to get anywhere, they were using the work vehicle to get out of a traffic jam because they didn’t fancy sitting in it with the rest of the proles.
I don’t know of any country (that isn’t a banana republic or Italy) where that’s morally acceptable.
Police and emergency must follow the same rules as the ones they’re appointed to manage, otherwise how do they expect to retain the authority and respect for what they do?
They work for the people and are appointed by “the people”, it’s not an authority issue at all.
Isn’t that a cornerstone of Australian philosophy…where you eliminate the bias of groups expecting special treatment for doing the same thing as everybody else?

All I hear was waaaaaa they get to get ahead of traffic and I dont. Boo hoo, suck it up.

Why dont you report them to emergency services if it’s such a great concern. I’m sure they’d be glad to discuss your dire grievances.

What, you think they don’t like traffic and need to get to the shops quicker?

I suggest that you are only seeing a small part of the picture. The ‘morons’ in the fire truck would have been going to a fire call – something that they do day in and day out. Every call is different and the nature of the call dictates what resources go and from which stations. For example, a house fire may have up to five different trucks going depending on the information received (as well as ambos, AFP). These trucks generally come from multiple stations.

What you saw tonight was the second / third / fourth truck downgrading from ‘urgent duty driving’ to ‘roadspeed’ – that is, to drive at normal road conditions. This happens when the first truck arrives on site, investigates the incident, and finds that the risk at the incident is minimal. They may still require the other truck to come along (manpower, specialist equipment) but the risk is less that putting others at risk by incoming trucks driving with lights and sirens. An example of this may be a small fire in a house that has been extinguished with all occupants outside, but they still need to get rid of the smoke etc).

Being downgraded happens every day. I can’t tell you how many times this has happened whilst I have been going through an intersection, or as I have just come out of an intersection. Downgrades happen to all services.

I have been employed in emergency services for some 12 years, attending more than 500 a year. I have never been in a vehicle undertaking urgent duty driving when not going to a ‘Priority 1’ job. I have never forced myself through an intersection because I was sick and tired of the traffic and wanted to get out of there faster. Every red light or speed camera activation gets investigated too to make sure that the truck was going to a job. GPS tracking and job data allows this.

Urgent Duty Driving can be dangerous, and that is why coppers, firies and ambos do the driver training that they do.

There are still a lot of muppets on the road who drive on autopilot and can’t think or think it’s all a game – or want to believe that red and blue light Maccas and donut runs do happen…

So how does the OP know that assistance wasn’t cancelled? Or that new recruits weren’t being trained how to get through traffic?

Boo hoo who gives a fire truck? If i had a siren id use it to beat the traffic too! Hehe

c_c™ said :

OP sounds like they have a problem with authority figures.

OP does not seem to be very bright.

OP, you you think the firemen get to take the big trucks home and they were using their sirens and lights to get back for dinner on time?

Did you stop to think that they were responding to something that needed an urgent response, that got cancelled for some reason ie. a closer vehicle arrived, or the matter wasn’t as reported so the urgent response was not needed?

I know that doesn’t suit your want to whinge, but it can happen.

You sound like you have an issue with them turning off sirens as they head to emergencies and presume that they use the lights and sirens just to avoid the inconvenience of traffic.

The purpose of the lights and sirens is to make traffic etc aware that they are trying to get somewhere urgently, and that they will be exercising their ability to drive in a manner that might contravene standing laws and thus need the attention of drivers (I am sure there is a technical expression for this driving). They use the lights and sirens to clear an intersection or area of traffic and will turn them off when not needed, indeed it will be common to kill the sirens in urban areas or as they approach an accident scene.

With the lights and sirens off, proceeding at normal speed would be entirely appropriate and indeed expected – travelling well above the limit would call for the lights and possibly sirens.

devils advocate, it could have been something they were were called out for, then cancelled before they got very far.

Waah Waah…!!! The sound emanating from your car as an emergency vehicle drives past you.

OP sounds like they have a problem with authority figures.

Seconds count. I’ve no problem with emergency services vehicles using their sirens to ensure they are never stuck in traffic.