Foggy drivers

ant said :

I don’t understand why people can’t see a car unless it has its headlights on. OK, in total night, yes, but in daylight (even with fog and rain), if someone can’t see something like a car after having a proper look, then they need their eyes looked-at. Sounds to me like people are relying on peripheral vision or something only.

Yes but how bad is the fog? If it’s anything like today’s fog which was pretty darn heavy, then turning on your lights to avoid an accident isn’t a big ask. If most motorists do it, yet you refuse to conform, I think it’s safe to say you’re in the wrong.

Don’t be stupid and turn your lights on. I don’t want you t-boning into my car because the visibility I have for your oncoming car is essentially cut in half because your lights aren’t on.

Pommy bastard said :

BerraBoy68 said :

Good thing there are no bad male drivers or cyclists out there, hey PB?

Too bloody right!

There’s enough problems on the roads as it is..

Yes, women! For pity’s sake, don’t drive!

lol

I don’t understand why people can’t see a car unless it has its headlights on. OK, in total night, yes, but in daylight (even with fog and rain), if someone can’t see something like a car after having a proper look, then they need their eyes looked-at. Sounds to me like people are relying on peripheral vision or something only.

Anyone with half a brain would turn their headlights on in any type of fog or rain. Personally my car is grey and I turn my headlights on when it is a least bit dull (not that anyone does a headcheck anyway), despite my car having automatic headlights.

Australian Road Rule 215
Using lights when driving at night or in hazardous weather conditions
(1) A driver must not drive at night, or in hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility unless:
(a) the headlights, tail lights and number plate light fitted to the driver’s vehicle are operating effectively and are clearly visible; and
(b) if the vehicle is fitted with clearance lights or side marker lights — those lights are operating effectively and are clearly visible.
Offence provision.
…

(3) Also, a driver driving during the day in fog, or other hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility, may drive without the headlights of the driver’s vehicle operating if the vehicle is fitted with front fog lights and those lights are operating effectively and are clearly visible.

(4) In subrule (1), a reference to a kind of light fitted to a vehicle is a reference to a light of that kind required to be fitted to the vehicle under another law of this jurisdiction.

The term “hazardous weather conditions” as used in subrule one, may boil down to personal experience and opinion about what is a hazard. However, subrule three suggests that “fog” is a hazardous weather condition as it results in reduced visibility… how thick a fog is not suggested. Perhaps this could be interpreted as we must legally have our head lights on in low lying cloud of any thickness?

Of course having your head lights on in adverse weather conditions is a self preservation thing. Those who don’t out of mental incompetence, are darwin award candidates. Those who don’t out of arrogance, fear of being “uncool”, or fear of forgetting their lights are on and flattening their battery, should take the bus when the weather isn’t clear, as you’re a disgrace.

The safety benefits of having lights on in all weather conditions is open to debate… personally I have my lights on all the time. Not sure why… just a habit I’ve always been in.

Seriously what kind of dickhead doesn’t think it’s suitable to put lights on in heavy fog??

When I drove to work at 730am I could barely see 10-20metres in front of me.. I was ever so grateful that most drivers had there lights on.. Freaked out a little almost watching someone get collected on a roundabout without lights on (BTW silver and white cars blend into fog very easily)

Seriously wake up to yourself and turn your lights on so people can see you. The front lights aren’t going to make you see any better, but your brake lights are sure as hell going to make you more noticeable to anyone driving behind you.

If everyone just drove to the Australian Road Rules, then no one would be pissed off at anyone! While I’m at it, and on a slightly different note, but does have to do with ARR…Keep left unless overtaking, only applies to speed zones IN EXCESS OF 80KMH (not including 80km zones), hence you dont see keep left signs in 80 km zones, unless there is a hill.However, having noted this, its just courteous to keep left in low volume traffic (not part of the ARR), so that people who want to abuse the law and speed, can pass you with ease.

Correction on the motorbike lights ADR. They have reverted to the old ways on newer bikes. You turn your lights on yourself. Mine are always on.

Hehe, nice write up PB- thanks.

rugbyskier said :

I always drive with my headlights on. My current car and my previous car are dark blue, which is a colour that can blend into the colour of asphalt. My current car turns off the lights when I turn off the ignition, so it’s easy to have the lights on permanently. I’ve also driven a lot in Europe and Canada where it’s the law to have lights on during the day. Anything to improve your visibility on the road is a good thing. Also I’d like to see the European practice of putting the hazard lights on as you brake coming into a traffic jam and until the car behind comes to a stop be adopted here. It would save a lot of rear enders.

Just because something isn’t law doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea, in fact it’s more likely to mean the opposite. If politicians don’t think it’s a good idea, then it probably is, and vice-versa.

I only learnt about this requirement in Canada and bits of Europe recently, and it makes sense to me. My work car (which is quite new because I don’t pay for it!) turns the lights off when the ignition is turned off, so I never turn them off.

I really appreciate it because another driver (of a white car driving through fog) saved my life many years ago simply by having the headlights on.

The Axe Man said :

dvaey said :

If it offered such safety advantages then you would think it would be law, wouldn’t you?

I believe that it is my responsiblity to be seen by all. I ride motorbikes as well and we’re taught that and I practice that.

Hang on….you ride motorbikes which are required by ADR to have lights on while operating and can’t see the advantage in having the lights on for cars. Does a good idea have to be a legal requirement?

I always drive with my headlights on. My current car and my previous car are dark blue, which is a colour that can blend into the colour of asphalt. My current car turns off the lights when I turn off the ignition, so it’s easy to have the lights on permanently. I’ve also driven a lot in Europe and Canada where it’s the law to have lights on during the day. Anything to improve your visibility on the road is a good thing. Also I’d like to see the European practice of putting the hazard lights on as you brake coming into a traffic jam and until the car behind comes to a stop be adopted here. It would save a lot of rear enders.

Pommy bastard said :

My motorbike, like many these days, was built and wired to have lights on premanently if the engine is running. I’ve no problem with that.

The Axe Man said :

If it offered such safety advantages then you would think it would be law, wouldn’t you?

As others have pointed out, in many places around the world it is law. It is also commonly done by fleet owners in Australia. Plus as Pommy Bastard has pointed out, motorbikes have headlights on all the time for their safety too.

“In the end your responsible for your own vehicle, not others. You make yourself seen. If I believe I don’t need my lights on I won’t put them on.”

Meat axe man – let me get this right:

You noticed other cars because they had their headlights on yet you don’t believe (because of your super driving skills?) that no-one else would benefit from being better able to see you?

Tool.

Here are some road safety tips that everyone in the ACT should watch, especially the cyclists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrgVP7uKRU

The Axe Man said :

In the end your responsible for your own vehicle, not others. You make yourself seen. If I believe I don’t need my lights on I won’t put them on

“Why should I have to put my headlights on at night? I can see the other cars just fine.”

The Axe Man said :

If I believe I don’t need my lights on I won’t put them on

Axeman, again I say to you – you seriously need more experience and common sence. Your attitude also sux.

My motorbike, like many these days, was built and wired to have lights on premanently if the engine is running. I’ve no problem with that.

Actually, in some European countries it is

cars sold in Canada have had to have daytime running lights since 1990.

Some days I need an ‘eject’ button…

It would be good to have an edit button

That’s why there’s a preview button.

The Axe Man said :

dvaey said :

What possible reason could you have for that? Aside from the facts above proving the safety advantages, what possible reason is there for not turning them on? Other than the fact you might forget to turn them off, of course. It doesnt cost you anything, it doesnt affect you in any way other than making your dashboard a little more clear to read, the only affect is has is on other drivers being able to see and avoid you.

In short I find daytime driving lights distracting. Especially the (I think they are called) ‘halogen’ (the really bright white lights)

If you cannot see or notice a car on the road in broad daylight without lights on then you shouldn’t be driving.
If it offered such safety advantages then you would think it would be law, wouldn’t you?

Actually, in some European countries it is. I agree with other sentiments – you lost your argument when you claimed that because you could see fine, there was no need to put your lights on. If you think that is the sole reason to put your lights on, perhaps you shouldn’t be driving. And if you find daytime lights annoying, perhaps your car is too low. Try stepping outside the box.

Sorry about the italics in the last two posts.
It would be good to have an edit button

Very Busy said :

The Axe Man said :

This self centred attitude causes so much havoc on Canberra streets. As VY says others may not find it as easy to see you. Drivers of older cars with smaller mirrors and less efficient wipers, demisters etc have more difficulty in the fog. With fog there’s often dew which impedes vision through all windows.

Axe Man, you seriously need more experience and common sence. Your attitude also sux.

I believe that it is my responsiblity to be seen by all. I ride motorbikes as well and we’re taught that and I practice that.

You shouldn’t be driving your vehicle if you have your vision impaired (either through foggy windows, rain etc ) enough that you think it is no longer safe to drive. If you feel that you can still do so safely then go for it.

If you feel that it is safe do to so but you have to have your lights on then go for it. If you feel you have to go 10-20k’s slower than the limit then go for it (just don’t sit in the right hand lane while not overtaking)

In the end your responsible for your own vehicle, not others. You make yourself seen. If I believe I don’t need my lights on I won’t put them on

Headlights

You must switch on your headlights when driving between sunset and sunrise, or any other time when there is not enough daylight to be able to see a person wearing dark clothing at a distance of 100 metres.

The NRMA says that is the law

Jeez, I don’t wanna point out the obvious – but perhaps just driving (or riding or walking or pogo-sticking or whatever) to the conditions might be the trick. Thick fog and others not putting their lights on? Deal with it – and drive knowing these sorts of folk (however stupid) are out there, and you may need to respond accordingly (slow down/deploy bumper rockets, oil slick or thumb tacks/etc.).

There’s no point worrying about others, because as frustrated as they may make you, there’s bugger all chance you’ll be able to do anything to change the way they act…unless you have a very big stick, but that’s a topic for another post.

I drive in the right hand lane more often than not because most Canberra drivers go 10-15k’s slower when there is a touch of rain or hint of fog around

… and you ‘disagree’ that it’s a good idea to slow down when it’s raining or foggy as well.

Nice.

You’re doing a bang up job.

+1

Jim Jones said :

The Axe Man said :

motleychick said :

I drive in the right hand lane more often than not because most Canberra drivers go 10-15k’s slower when there is a touch of rain or hint of fog around

… and you ‘disagree’ that it’s a good idea to slow down when it’s raining or foggy as well.

Nice.

You’re doing a bang up job.

I know. Good hey 🙂

dvaey said :

What possible reason could you have for that? Aside from the facts above proving the safety advantages, what possible reason is there for not turning them on? Other than the fact you might forget to turn them off, of course. It doesnt cost you anything, it doesnt affect you in any way other than making your dashboard a little more clear to read, the only affect is has is on other drivers being able to see and avoid you.

In short I find daytime driving lights distracting. Especially the (I think they are called) ‘halogen’ (the really bright white lights)

If you cannot see or notice a car on the road in broad daylight without lights on then you shouldn’t be driving.
If it offered such safety advantages then you would think it would be law, wouldn’t you?

The Axe Man said :

I, on the other hand, disagree.

I didn’t feel the need to complain about it though, each to their own. I was able to see all cars regardless if they had their lights on or not

This self centred attitude causes so much havoc on Canberra streets. As VY says others may not find it as easy to see you. Drivers of older cars with smaller mirrors and less efficient wipers, demisters etc have more difficulty in the fog. With fog there’s often dew which impedes vision through all windows.

Axe Man, you seriously need more experience and common sence. Your attitude also sux.

The Axe Man said :

motleychick said :

I drive in the right hand lane more often than not because most Canberra drivers go 10-15k’s slower when there is a touch of rain or hint of fog around

… and you ‘disagree’ that it’s a good idea to slow down when it’s raining or foggy as well.

Nice.

You’re doing a bang up job.

I suppose by that logic if I were to hit someone lying in the middle of a highway wearing dark clothes on a moonless night it would be my fault because I didn’t drive to conditions?

It’s a pretty purile example, but I can’t see why it wouldn’t be your fault. To not be able to detect a person side object on a road, even if they were wearing all black on a moonless night, strikes me as incompetent. You would have to be either driving with your headlights off or with your eyes closed.

For those who cant figure out the commonsense that lighting up your car DOES make a difference, even in good weather, feel free to check out:
http://www.acrs.org.au/collegepolicies/vehicles/daytimerunninglights.html

Also, for those of you whinging about people driving 10km/hr under the speed limit, have you not seen the slogan ‘wipe off 5’, with regards to reducing your speed in less-than-perfect conditions.

Surely this stuff is just common sense?

The Axe Man said :

I also disagree about have daytime driving lights on in broad daylight

What possible reason could you have for that? Aside from the facts above proving the safety advantages, what possible reason is there for not turning them on? Other than the fact you might forget to turn them off, of course. It doesnt cost you anything, it doesnt affect you in any way other than making your dashboard a little more clear to read, the only affect is has is on other drivers being able to see and avoid you.

If I can see them during the day when there is no fog, and can make a judgement call to change lanes as the cyclist isn’t in the cycle lane, my headlights should be able to allow me to see them in the fog, and make the same call. It is a visibility issue. If they light up with reflective strips, as i am travelling in the fog, I can avoid them.

I had a few problems this morning with white and grey cars with no lights on, I drive a white car, and you could definitely see me as i drove along. I always drive with my lights on in bad vis conditions.

then I believe my original observation stands. The visibility of other road users (whether or not they choose to have their lights on) determines the driving conditions. so if you drive to the conditions thene there shouldn’t be a problem. As a driver you have no control over other road users – you do howver have complete control over how you drive.

motleychick said :

When you can’t see 10 metres in front of you from severely thick fog, you’d assume that your headlights should be on.

I was able to see about 100-200 metres up the Parkway at 8am this morning.

Hugh Lews said :

DO you know that it doesnt cost you any extra to have your lights on? It just makes it easier for other drivers. Let me guess you drive in the right hand lane to? idiot.

I drive in the right hand lane more often than not because most Canberra drivers go 10-15k’s slower when there is a touch of rain or hint of fog around

And it doesn’t cost you anything to be civil to people either

If it’s foggy and visibility is poor, put your lights on. It’s not just about whether an individual can see other cars, but about how others can see you. Put your headlights on, but NOT on high beam.

Fog lights are for fog. Only.

This stuff should be easy, people.

BerraBoy68 said :

Good thing there are no bad male drivers or cyclists out there, hey PB?

Too bloody right!

There’s enough problems on the roads as it is..

If post #34 doesnt make sense – im sorry – i didnt use the quote feature right..

The topic about driving lights and fog was posted exactly a year ago on May 6, 2008 by Sgt.Bungers

I didn’t feel the need to complain about it though, each to their own. I was able to see all cars regardless if they had their lights on or not

I also disagree about have daytime driving lights on in broad daylight

DO you know that it doesnt cost you any extra to have your lights on? It just makes it easier for other drivers. Let me guess you drive in the right hand lane to? idiot.

Hugh Lews said :

If you’re one of those ‘heroes’ that rides their bike on the road in those or any conditions then you get what you deserve…

So people aren’t allowed to ride their bikes in the fog now?

Is there some sort of road rule you’d like to point people too, or are you just another self-entitled motorist who feels that it’s inappropriate for cyclist to use ‘your’ roads?

Still, I don’t believe any form of lights were needed

When you can’t see 10 metres in front of you from severely thick fog, you’d assume that your headlights should be on.

Jim Jones said :

Why do you think everyone around you had their lights on? It didn’t tip you off or anything?

It tipped me off that they thought it was reasonable to have their lights on. I, on the other hand, disagree.

I didn’t feel the need to complain about it though, each to their own. I was able to see all cars regardless if they had their lights on or not

I also disagree about have daytime driving lights on in broad daylight

BerraBoy68 said :

Good thing there are no bad male drivers or cyclists out there, hey PB?

100%

Loose Brown said :

Oh yes, the fog was quite thick this morning and Jeeves became totally disorientated. He interrupted my morning paper and told me he was lost and couldn’t see a thing. I asked the silly fellow to pull over so I could get my bearings. I opened the window and all I could see was an ocean of white. I reached out into the fog and said, ‘well we must be in Yarralumla because I can feel a well-maintained privet hedge.’

On we drove and before long I knew that Jeezes hadn’t a clue as to our location. I told him to stick his arm out the window and find out where we are. He did this and told me, ‘We must be in Charnwood!’

Very good, nice effort!

‘Why you silly man?’ I asked.

‘Because someone has stolen my watch!’

Very good, nice effort!

As for PBs comment on driving “10 – 15 k under the speed limit”, I seem to recall instructors actually used to advocate this when driving in rain or fog? As for driving a grey car in fog without her lights on… insanity!

Good thing there are no bad male drivers or cyclists out there, hey PB?

I agree 100% about the lights….I dont get it at all.

BUT

If you’re one of those ‘heroes’ that rides their bike on the road in those or any conditions then you get what you deserve…

I know you think you ‘deserve’ to and all the other dribble that cyclists say about riding on the road but thats another perfect example of why you shouldt risk it…Canberra drivers are f*@ked

The Axe Man said :

Jim Jones said :

The Axe Man said :

If I remember my L’s test from many years ago I had a question asking if it was appropriate to use headlights in heavy fog. I duly answered ‘No’ and I was correct. I think the reasoning given was that the light reflects back at you and makes it harder to see

That’s *high beam* headlights.

If you’re going to be a smartass about something, at least try and get it right.

No need to get narky – it was over 12 years ago

Still, I don’t believe any form of lights were needed

Why do you think everyone around you had their lights on? It didn’t tip you off or anything?

Oh yes, the fog was quite thick this morning and Jeeves became totally disorientated. He interrupted my morning paper and told me he was lost and couldn’t see a thing. I asked the silly fellow to pull over so I could get my bearings. I opened the window and all I could see was an ocean of white. I reached out into the fog and said, ‘well we must be in Yarralumla because I can feel a well-maintained privet hedge.’

On we drove and before long I knew that Jeezes hadn’t a clue as to our location. I told him to stick his arm out the window and find out where we are. He did this and told me, ‘We must be in Charnwood!’

‘Why you silly man?’ I asked.

‘Because someone has stolen my watch!’

Clown Killer said :

I would hate to have an accident whereby I have hit a cyclist due to poor vis.

Easy fix peter – drive to the conditions.

Just curious, what do cyclists think about riding in the fog, with so many cars rushing past without lights on? Do you believe that cars should increase their visibility? If so, why them and why not you? If not, then you really are a danger on the road.

Jim Jones said :

The Axe Man said :

If I remember my L’s test from many years ago I had a question asking if it was appropriate to use headlights in heavy fog. I duly answered ‘No’ and I was correct. I think the reasoning given was that the light reflects back at you and makes it harder to see

That’s *high beam* headlights.

If you’re going to be a smartass about something, at least try and get it right.

No need to get narky – it was over 12 years ago

Still, I don’t believe any form of lights were needed

The Axe Man said :

If I remember my L’s test from many years ago I had a question asking if it was appropriate to use headlights in heavy fog. I duly answered ‘No’ and I was correct. I think the reasoning given was that the light reflects back at you and makes it harder to see

That’s *high beam* headlights.

If you’re going to be a smartass about something, at least try and get it right.

The Axe Man said :

I, on the other hand, couldn’t believe how many people had turned their lights on. I don’t think the fog was heavy enough to warrant using headlights.
But maybe I’m in the wrong, after all, I didn’t feel the need to have a whinge about it either.

If I remember my L’s test from many years ago I had a question asking if it was appropriate to use headlights in heavy fog. I duly answered ‘No’ and I was correct. I think the reasoning given was that the light reflects back at you and makes it harder to see

If not dull enough for headlights, foggies/driving lights or a combo of both can assist in increasing your visibility to fellow motorists

I reckon the police should set up the lights-on equivalent of a radar speed check/ RBT operation on foggy days (and dusk in the colder months too) – though they’d probably struggle to catch the full one-third of Canberrans (at least) that I passed this morning sans lights. Be a great boost for the Budget though.

BTW people, parking lights are just not enough, go that one extra click and turn on main beam (not full beam). Thanks.

I, on the other hand, couldn’t believe how many people had turned their lights on. I don’t think the fog was heavy enough to warrant using headlights.
But maybe I’m in the wrong, after all, I didn’t feel the need to have a whinge about it either.

If I remember my L’s test from many years ago I had a question asking if it was appropriate to use headlights in heavy fog. I duly answered ‘No’ and I was correct. I think the reasoning given was that the light reflects back at you and makes it harder to see

Good on you PB

Clown Killer said :

I would hate to have an accident whereby I have hit a cyclist due to poor vis.

Easy fix peter – drive to the conditions.

I suppose by that logic if I were to hit someone lying in the middle of a highway wearing dark clothes on a moonless night it would be my fault because I didn’t drive to conditions?

PBO said :

Mrs Middle Class.

Is this supposed to be an insult.

PBO said :

Having said that I saw one getting beautifully rear-ended on Hindmarsh this morning.

Your glee might not be so great if it had been you wife driven car on the way to the dentist that was rear ended. How unfair. How could anyone hit it, fluoro orange with the lights on!

Clown Killer said :

That’ not a visibility issue then is it peter.

If I can see them during the day when there is no fog, and can make a judgement call to change lanes as the cyclist isn’t in the cycle lane, my headlights should be able to allow me to see them in the fog, and make the same call. It is a visibility issue. If they light up with reflective strips, as i am travelling in the fog, I can avoid them.

I had a few problems this morning with white and grey cars with no lights on, I drive a white car, and you could definitely see me as i drove along. I always drive with my lights on in bad vis conditions.

That’ not a visibility issue then is it peter.

I noticed this, too. It’s funny that when it gets dark, every car that has a set of fog lights seems to have them on, yet when it’s foggy, barely a soul uses them…

Clown Killer said :

I would hate to have an accident whereby I have hit a cyclist due to poor vis.

Easy fix peter – drive to the conditions.

CK, i was doing 80 on the parkway. did you want me to do 30, like the cyclist who swerved into my lane in the fog??

Since we’re complaining about drivers this morning..

To the bloke behind me who honked me for not running a red light turning off Ginninderra on to Haydon. F.. off!

Its the second time in 2 months I’ve been abused for that. And in both cases the light turned red before I would have been able to enter the intersection.

More red light cameras I say!

peterh said :

I noticed a few drivers without their lights on, this morning.[/quot]

I lost count of the number I saw, predominantly they were as descibed above.

I also noticed a couple of cyclists without anything remotely hi vis on.

Cyclists aren’t so bad. Easier to avoid. Or of you hit them at the right speed you can just blow them into the hedge.

I would hate to have an accident whereby I have hit a cyclist due to poor vis.

Easy fix peter – drive to the conditions.

I also noticed a couple of cyclists without anything remotely hi vis on

+1 – Saw a few of them this morning too…

If this all started at around 8:10 on Coulter drive, then she annoyed the crap out of me too.

I noticed a few drivers without their lights on, this morning.

I also noticed a couple of cyclists without anything remotely hi vis on – their cycle suits were bland colours. Cyclists from behind with only a little red light for visibility in fog is a bit of a dead loss. please put reflective strips on the back of your backpack, outfit whatever.

I would hate to have an accident whereby I have hit a cyclist due to poor vis.

Apologies, should have been ‘their’, not ‘they’re’. It’s one of those slow mornings for me today.

I may not have ridden into work this morning, but goodness me driving with stupid Canberran’s who think that there is no point in turning they’re lights on in extremely foggy conditions was great fun!! *note the sarcasm*

Funny how when it’s sunny people drive with they’re lights on, but when it’s foggy they don’t. Ohhh the joys of Canberra drivers. They always seem to amaze me with their lack of common sense and complete disregard for basic road rules.

Is there such a thing as a cupcake with too much flavour? Mmmmmmm… Cupcakes…

I resent the accusation that my cupcakes are still too flavoursome.

Your name seems appropriate. Maybe with the word “whinging” before it would be even better.

Very nice rant 🙂 10/10