Hate Halloween? [with poll]

Stevian said :

Which is why Halloween should be banned. Thanks for proving my point

As in, you will have to notify the police if more than 3 of you plan to go out dressed in “scary” costumes?

Stevian said :

Postalgeek said :

Stevian said :

All well and good, now get off my lawn!!

Not before we TP your house.

Which is why Halloween should be banned. Thanks for proving my point

We’ll TP your house anyway for being a grump who got Halloween banned.

Postalgeek said :

Stevian said :

Postalgeek said :

I think it’s great. For one it’s a community sort of event which is something somewhat lacking these days.

Besides, the kids are generally happy, respectful and friendly, and by engaging with them you are reinforcing these traits.

Which has to be a good thing.

Good point.

For those who might think we live in a soulless society, or mourn the absence of a supportive local community, or complain about how yoof have no respect, well, this is one way working communities are built, by people knocking on doors of those who live nearby in a festive environment.

For the price of a packet of sweets it’s cheaper than pretty much every other commercialised Northern Hemisphere holiday we’ve imported, and no worse than anything our own plastic-flag-and-slab-of-beer culture has dreamt up.

All well and good, now get off my lawn!!

Not before we TP your house.

Which is why Halloween should be banned. Thanks for proving my point

GardeningGirl said :

miz said :

Personally I feel that Halloween gives people ‘cultural permission’ to make threats and cause criminal damage. I don’t like feeling threatened in my own home. We don’t need or want this import in Australia – and I say this as a person of Gaelic heritage. The American version is commercial, crass and awful.

I agree, its a weird tradition that says on one day you’re allowed to threaten people to get what you want. There are probably other traditions that also look weird from the outside (I can’t think of anything offhand but I’m sure there are times when I’ve though lol what would an alien make of what we’re doing). But the thing with Halloween is some people feel entitled to share their fun with everyone whether you have chosen to participate or not, they make a mess on your property if you don’t respond correctly (sometimes people have valid reasons why they aren’t prepared) and then berate you for not being fun. In the thirty years since I was abused by a neighbour who had never previously bothered to say hullo, I haven’t seen Halloween evolve into an event with a real community feel. It’s just random strangers, sometimes older kids not even dressed up, banging on your door disturbing your evening. I know of someone who had a very distressing evening during a major illness. It would be nice to think that the ‘community’ would have known and had the respect to leave them alone, or to leave alone any household that has its lights OFF, but they don’t. I grew up in Canberra, believe me, I would love more old-time neighbourliness and community spirit and all that. Halloween isn’t doing that, it just feels nasty.

Where is this ghetto you live in?

The Halloween trick or treating I’ve seen are cute 6-12 yo kids dressed up as witches and skeletons who are generally polite and considerate. They’re kids, they might trample the odd flower and talk too loud, but geez, lighten up a bit.

miz said :

Personally I feel that Halloween gives people ‘cultural permission’ to make threats and cause criminal damage. I don’t like feeling threatened in my own home. We don’t need or want this import in Australia – and I say this as a person of Gaelic heritage. The American version is commercial, crass and awful.

I agree, its a weird tradition that says on one day you’re allowed to threaten people to get what you want. There are probably other traditions that also look weird from the outside (I can’t think of anything offhand but I’m sure there are times when I’ve though lol what would an alien make of what we’re doing). But the thing with Halloween is some people feel entitled to share their fun with everyone whether you have chosen to participate or not, they make a mess on your property if you don’t respond correctly (sometimes people have valid reasons why they aren’t prepared) and then berate you for not being fun. In the thirty years since I was abused by a neighbour who had never previously bothered to say hullo, I haven’t seen Halloween evolve into an event with a real community feel. It’s just random strangers, sometimes older kids not even dressed up, banging on your door disturbing your evening. I know of someone who had a very distressing evening during a major illness. It would be nice to think that the ‘community’ would have known and had the respect to leave them alone, or to leave alone any household that has its lights OFF, but they don’t. I grew up in Canberra, believe me, I would love more old-time neighbourliness and community spirit and all that. Halloween isn’t doing that, it just feels nasty.

Life’s too short to get hung up on something so trivial as this.

arescarti42, Golden-Alpine, Thumper, Postalgeek and others have all put forward pretty compelling cases as to why most objections to what we know as the commercialised Halloween are at best mislaid and at worst really quite foolish.

The only thing I would say is that parents and kids roaming the suburbs for free “candy” should not really get upset if they draw blank stares or total indifference from whoever answers the front door on which they knock. Personally, I knew it was Halloween but it never would have occurred to me that, here in Australia, I’d need to be prepared to provide a free sugar hit to young children looking for a bribe.

Forget the treats for a moment, though, I want to know what tricks, if any, have been played by the kids?

Golden-Alpine said :

Those that use the argument “It’s not Australian” do you therefore not get involved in Octoberfest or St Patricks Day??

yes, i don’t.

i agree that it is a harvest festival and could be revised to be an autumn festival here when pumpkins are actually growing. but that said, the kids love, social media has perpetuated this ‘tradition’ in australia and i suspect it will only get bigger from here.

oh, and watson, no australian festival to get silly on? wait til next tuesday…

I don’t mind Halloween, it’s the only night of the year I can run around the streets popping orange balloons.

rosscoact said :

Bought the mini-Mars Bars, put the orange ballon out, waited in vain for the knocks on the door, ate seven mini Mars Bars.

Overall, a success I think.

same thing happened at my place 🙂 …

Bought the mini-Mars Bars, put the orange ballon out, waited in vain for the knocks on the door, ate seven mini Mars Bars.

Overall, a success I think.

Stevian said :

Postalgeek said :

I think it’s great. For one it’s a community sort of event which is something somewhat lacking these days.

Besides, the kids are generally happy, respectful and friendly, and by engaging with them you are reinforcing these traits.

Which has to be a good thing.

Good point.

For those who might think we live in a soulless society, or mourn the absence of a supportive local community, or complain about how yoof have no respect, well, this is one way working communities are built, by people knocking on doors of those who live nearby in a festive environment.

For the price of a packet of sweets it’s cheaper than pretty much every other commercialised Northern Hemisphere holiday we’ve imported, and no worse than anything our own plastic-flag-and-slab-of-beer culture has dreamt up.

All well and good, now get off my lawn!!

Not before we TP your house.

Postalgeek said :

I think it’s great. For one it’s a community sort of event which is something somewhat lacking these days.

Besides, the kids are generally happy, respectful and friendly, and by engaging with them you are reinforcing these traits.

Which has to be a good thing.

Good point.

For those who might think we live in a soulless society, or mourn the absence of a supportive local community, or complain about how yoof have no respect, well, this is one way working communities are built, by people knocking on doors of those who live nearby in a festive environment.

For the price of a packet of sweets it’s cheaper than pretty much every other commercialised Northern Hemisphere holiday we’ve imported, and no worse than anything our own plastic-flag-and-slab-of-beer culture has dreamt up.

All well and good, now get off my lawn!!

Postalgeek said :

Good point.

For those who might think we live in a soulless society, or mourn the absence of a supportive local community, or complain about how yoof have no respect, well, this is one way working communities are built, by people knocking on doors of those who live nearby in a festive environment.

For the price of a packet of sweets it’s cheaper than pretty much every other commercialised Northern Hemisphere holiday we’ve imported, and no worse than anything our own plastic-flag-and-slab-of-beer culture has dreamt up.

Hear, hear!

I think it’s great. For one it’s a community sort of event which is something somewhat lacking these days.

Besides, the kids are generally happy, respectful and friendly, and by engaging with them you are reinforcing these traits.

Which has to be a good thing.

Good point.

For those who might think we live in a soulless society, or mourn the absence of a supportive local community, or complain about how yoof have no respect, well, this is one way working communities are built, by people knocking on doors of those who live nearby in a festive environment.

For the price of a packet of sweets it’s cheaper than pretty much every other commercialised Northern Hemisphere holiday we’ve imported, and no worse than anything our own plastic-flag-and-slab-of-beer culture has dreamt up.

I took a telescope out onto the footpath and let kids have a look at the sun and its bunch of sunspots currently facing us, as a different sort of treat. Until the cloud band ruled that out. Was going back out when it got dark for different views for the stragglers, but the wind got bitterly cold. Pity.

c_c™ said :

For anyone else, you ring the bell, it’s trespass.

Do you have a rocking chair for when you sit on your porch with your shotgun?

As someone who organised a halloween party (and as someone who traveled to the states last year specifically to go to a halloween party) I have absolutely no problem with it.

I also had no problem in enjoying oktoberfest, I’ve had a beer or two at a st paddys day, and hey if another culture wants to bring it’s celebration over here and organise a party I’ll happily par-take in that as well.

The thing I find really amusing is the first people to usually say they are not going to participate because “it’s an American tradition not and Australian tradition” are also then really proud of how they have traveled to some remote part of Asia and lived like a local for 4 weeks.

Not one knock on the door very peaceful. Did see a few yummy mummy’s wheeling there brats around to scavenge off there neighbours on the drip home from work

Golden-Alpine said :

Those that use the argument “It’s not Australian” do you therefore not get involved in Octoberfest or St Patricks Day??

Good point. I doubt many people who ‘celebrate’ St Patricks day or Oktoberfest even know any of the history behind those traditions. Hmmmm, maybe if Halloween became ‘dress like a ghost and get s***-faced’ day, it would take off.

I don’t participate in trick or treat, but don’t have a problem with people who do.

Erg0 said :

It’s slightly bizarre that people are treating this like it’s a new thing. I went trick or treating in Perth as a kid, more than 20 years ago now.

I can remember my brother going trick or treating in Chapman over 20 years ago. Happened to knock on the door of some Americans, who absolutely loved it.

I had some halloweeners come to my house. They came just after I had come back in from the backyard, so I was slow to answer the front door. After the knock, there was a voice saying ‘Trick or treat’ – then (annoyed tone) ‘I know you’re in there . . . ‘ I froze and decided not to answer the door as I was feeling quite intimidated. There was then some audible arguing about what ‘tricks’ should be inflicted, with another voice saying, ‘No, come on, let’s go.’ Thankfully the other voice prevailed, and they moved out of the street about 10 minutes later after bothering some of my neighbours.
Personally I feel that Halloween gives people ‘cultural permission’ to make threats and cause criminal damage. I don’t like feeling threatened in my own home. We don’t need or want this import in Australia – and I say this as a person of Gaelic heritage. The American version is commercial, crass and awful.

We used to do it as kids in Canberra in the 80s. Mum would make our costumes – no $2 shop crap for us (because they probably didn’t exist). But we lived in a large street with a great community and everyone joined in. We didn’t go annoy randoms!

I wouldn’t mind if it was held at the proper time of year, It’s Beltaine down here right now 🙂

It’s slightly bizarre that people are treating this like it’s a new thing. I went trick or treating in Perth as a kid, more than 20 years ago now.

milkman said :

Just had a bunch of teens knock for trick or treat wearing some quite, um, strange costumes.

hot costumes? :p

Piss it off its a load of old clap trap

Just had a bunch of teens knock for trick or treat wearing some quite, um, strange costumes.

Watson said :

…An excuse to dress up and act silly…

Isn’t that just the ACT Legislative Assembly?

For f***’s sake, let the kids have a bit of fun. If you don’t want people knocking on your door then buy a block of land in the middle of nowhere and live as a hermit. You can always hide in the bedroom until they’re gone.

Those that use the argument “It’s not Australian” do you therefore not get involved in Octoberfest or St Patricks Day??

Because its beggary. Formalised, sweet-faced, ‘innocent’, but beggary all the same. Just like the chuggers and “…spare us a dollar, mate?” you get in the bus interchange. And to make it worse, they come to your door, demand a bribe. Normally you don’t hurl abuse at kids, but for this I’ll make an exception.

I’m confused. Is it shallow commercialisation bereft of any meaning or a rich seasonal tradition so ancient and sacred it can’t cross the equator?

I guess whiners can have their low-fat carob cake and eat it, too.

/eats more candy

PS – the Batman defence is the first thing I’ve seen to top the Chewbacca defence.

I was lucky enough to spend a couple of years as a kid living in Virginia, and let me tell you, from a kid’s point of view, it was awesome.

The argument that we shouldn’t observe it because it’s American or commercial or whatever is bullshit. Santa claus, X-mas presents the easter bunny and chocolate eggs, fathers/mothers day etc. are all superficial quasi religious crap designed by retailers in other countries to suck money out of people, yet we still observe the tradition anyway.

Halloween has a better community aspect and is far more fun than any of those.

In the suburb I used to live in, the rules surrounding Halloween festivities were set by the local home owners association. Participating households would leave their porch lights on, and those who didn’t want to be disturbed would leave them off. Trick or treating was reserved for kids 12 and under.

I don’t think Halloween *is* terribly commercial – certainly nothing compared to Christmas these days where the whole idea seems to be to buy as much useless crap as possible! Costume parties are fun, what’s so wrong with that?

Does it hurt anyone to celebrate Halloween? I doubt it. The reject shop makes a bit of cash and Clowning Around in Mawson does their best weekend’s trading. Perhaps a few dentists have an extra appointment or three.

It’s commercialism, it’s misguided (people say they’re celebrating and when you ask what, they go “huh?’) and it’s annoying as hell. Should be opt in, you want people trolling you, hanging something on your letter box. For anyone else, you ring the bell, it’s trespass.

If you want to celebrate the harvest, or the spirits past, then do that among those who are actually interested. What’s that got to do with trolling your neighbours seeking chocolate made using stuff harvested in countries where ironically, the lack of a harvest often causes food shortages, who knows? Maybe that $30 for a batman costume could go to something more useful?

IrishPete said :

Halloween is NOT American. The commercialisation of it may be, and “trick of treating”, but Halloween is a Christian adaptation of a long-standing pagan festival. The work Halloween itself means “All Hallow’s eve(ning)”, the day before the Feast Of All Saints. Both Halloween and the following day are celebrated in Catholic Ireland – 1st November was a compulsory mass day when I was at school (a Holy Day of Obligation”).

I doubt 1970s Ireland was being influenced much by the USA, so the pumpkin heads with candles in them, the fancy dress parties with an emphasis on monsters, are probably all original. Trick or treating I would wager is American, especially since the word “trick” in that context is being used with a different meaning than its normal use in Ireland/Britain. I discovered soon after arriving in Australia that “tricking” is used here to mean “teasing” or “joking”.

IP

work=word

Halloween is NOT American. The commercialisation of it may be, and “trick of treating”, but Halloween is a Christian adaptation of a long-standing pagan festival. The work Halloween itself means “All Hallow’s eve(ning)”, the day before the Feast Of All Saints. Both Halloween and the following day are celebrated in Catholic Ireland – 1st November was a compulsory mass day when I was at school (a Holy Day of Obligation”).

I doubt 1970s Ireland was being influenced much by the USA, so the pumpkin heads with candles in them, the fancy dress parties with an emphasis on monsters, are probably all original. Trick or treating I would wager is American, especially since the word “trick” in that context is being used with a different meaning than its normal use in Ireland/Britain. I discovered soon after arriving in Australia that “tricking” is used here to mean “teasing” or “joking”.

IP

Forgot the link… http://www.hercanberra.com.au/index.php/2013/10/30/the-real-story-of-halloween/#

HerCanberra has a good article about the origins of Halloween.

For me it’s kind of like Christmas and Easter. I don’t believe in god but I’m quite happy to take a champagne picnic to carols by candlelight and stuff myself full of Bruno’s Chocolate at Easter. I’m not doing anything for Halloween tonight but I will next year.

One of the things that piss me off about Halloween is that it’s a harvest festival; if you’re going to “celebrate” it in the southern hemisphere, it should be held in Autumn, not Spring. Just another stupidity of adopting northern hemisphere traditions without any consideration of what they’re about – like Oestre, which is a fertility rite that should be held in Spring.

Anyway, I need to get out of the way. Xmas is coming and I need to start making my plum pudding, which I’ll serve piping hot with turkey and all the trimmings, for lunch in late December.

Bring it on! I am all for adopting new traditions. I’m not American, but as a migrant, I always felt it’s a shame Australia doesn’t have a carnival-type holiday. An excuse to dress up and act silly. Neither does it have a festival that allows kids to go knock on doors to beg. I had both of those when I grew up and they were always real highlights for all kids (and some childlike adults).

I’ve heard the arguments against Halloween. The people putting them forward usually act like they’re really deep and the other side is stupid for letting themselves be brainwashed by popular media. I find it pretty shallow to not accept that cultures evolve, new traditions are started and old ones die a quiet death and if you ask any American 8yo about the origins of Halloween you probably wouldn’t get more than a few blank stares and “Trick or treat!” cries. Who the F cares where it comes from. Let’s make it our own. Carve watermelons instead of pumpkins, sell more Australian costumes (e.g. bogan, Ned Kelly and Mully!) and encourage more kids to participate.