Katy backflips on cycleway along Majura Parkway

KB1971 said :

Henry, I know this is sad but I was actually thinking about you last night as I was “killing myself” with a group of 10 riders in Majura last night.

Cycling certainly does suck, the fitness, the jokes, the “cmons you can do it’s”, the “wooooohooooo” from the group when you do, the “jeez thats a nice bike”, the “good to see you again, its been a while”, the down hills (they are SOOOO worth the up hills) & the beer & schnitzel afterwards.

I think I agree, its a stupid sport……..

I watched a BBC documentary last night, “The truth about exercise”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cywtq

Apparently, 3 minutes exercise per week is all you need. The obsessive-compulsive exercising that a tiny minority of disturbed people engage in isn’t much benefit to you, although it will give you a heart attack if you keep at it long enough.

Personally, I’m all for the Idea of Bike registration, and I say that being someone who does ride as well as drive (I’m back in the ACT now, so Riding is an option)

I would quite happily pay a registration fee for my bike, and I would happily put plates on my bike, as far as I see it, extra infrastructure is needed to accommodate my car, and I pay extra for that to be there, so if extra infrastructure is required for my bike, than I’ll happily chip in for that too (not to get into a discussion about the Govt. actually using the money wisely, that’s another story)

I’ve seen Bikes damage cars, and hit people, and in some cases ride away, as far as I see it, we should have ID, and should be accountable, and we should pay for the extra infrastructure we would like, just like we do behind the wheel.

Yes, it’s another bill, and I can’t begin to say how much I don’t need that, but really, it makes sense to me. Personally I also feel we need more controls on bikes on the roads, ie, clearer, more logical, and enforced laws, the way it works at the moment, some people ride on paths, others on roads, others on grass, some give way, some take way, some wear helmets, some wear Mohawks, it’s a real mixed bag, and it makes it hard to predict what’s coming.

I know many people will disagree with me, and that’s fine, this is just my own opinion, plenty of people tell me not to bother with my helmet, but at the end of the day i can’t see what the bother really is, it’s a hat that click on, takes a second, not a problem, yet I still get told i shouldn’t bother!

Anyway, end rant!

Henry, I know this is sad but I was actually thinking about you last night as I was “killing myself” with a group of 10 riders in Majura last night.

Cycling certainly does suck, the fitness, the jokes, the “cmons you can do it’s”, the “wooooohooooo” from the group when you do, the “jeez thats a nice bike”, the “good to see you again, its been a while”, the down hills (they are SOOOO worth the up hills) & the beer & schnitzel afterwards.

I think I agree, its a stupid sport……..

HenryBG said :

They say 1 hour of exercise per day extends your life by 3 years, right?

I’m frankly sceptical:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Connolly

Hang on, is this the same HenryBG that was berating all the climate deniers for cherry picking the science? Seriously you base your medical ideas on a single data point?

Seriously HBG, if you get the opportunity one day to try an e-bike, as they are called nowadays, you should take it.

They take the sting out of rises for those who struggle a bit, you can still get a bit of exercise without heaving up your lungs, and they maintain a faster average speed, making a trip for Woden to Civic very doable for the average punter.

Australia Post has started rolling out a fleet of them for posties, they are kicking off in Europe, and MET and LAPD are trialling them. As they become more popular, they’ll become cheaper.

Combine e-bikes, with a revised standard that increases them to 300W, with decent cycle lanes, and you have a commuting option that is accessible to a lot of people, fit and unfit. But it’s important that people feel safe, which means separated cycle lanes for high speed artery routes.

I’m actually surprised that e-bikes don’t seem to feature much in cycle way discussions, given the growing support for them in Europe and China.

I can get from the north Tuggeranong area to the city quicker on my bike than i can on a magical mystery action tour on the closest suburb bus. So that’s why i ride. Plus its free. Plus its my exercise. And I’m not speed demon. Hopefully not a slug either, but its only 45 mins in for me.

Does that make Henry mega slow? 🙂 Woden to civic is only about 10 kms. most average healthy people should be able to do that with hardly any effort. I huff and puff my way up past Hopetoun Circuit to the Lodge too, but then i roll down onto State Circle and recover. Its a 1 km plod – not Alp Du’Ez in the Tour de France. No state to attend a meeting? Take it a bit slower, bring a change of clothes and BO basher and baby wipes are your best friend.

Henry – I’ll even offer to ride with you one day if you’re prepared to give it another go… your pace – however fast or slow you wish. There are all sorts doing it – old, young, fat, slow… once fat but now thin….

fun size said :

HenryBG, have you ever actually ridden a bike from Woden to Civic?

Yes I have, and it’s long hard work getting up to the Lodge. I’m in no state to attend a meeting after cycling that kind of distance, and it takes even longer than going on an ACTION magical mystery tour.

Nothing like Holland. Or Denmark.

thatsnotme said :

How about we make a deal – your taxes don’t have to go towards cycling infrastructure, but my taxes don’t have to go towards keeping your sedentary arse alive.

They say 1 hour of exercise per day extends your life by 3 years, right?

I’m frankly sceptical:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Connolly

HenryBG said :

KB1971 said :

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Bahahahahahahaa, I chellenge you to come & do the Fitzs Challenge with me this year Henry.

http://www.fitzs.com.au/

2.3km of climing in 160km……….Even that is soft compared to the tour coming up later in the year.

Sounds absdolutely hideous. Why would anyone do that when there are so many better things to do with your time.

Like posting on RiotAct? You’re still leading the board, Henry BG 😉

thatsnotme said :

How about we make a deal – your taxes don’t have to go towards cycling infrastructure, but my taxes don’t have to go towards keeping your sedentary arse alive.

Yes, I imagine a cycle path along Majura Rd would be chaeper than the treatment for diseases related for smoking in a year or two………

HenryBG, have you ever actually ridden a bike from Woden to Civic?

HenryBG said :

Sounds absdolutely hideous. Why would anyone do that when there are so many better things to do with your time.

Actually, I’ve figured out what all this bicycle-rubbish is all about: like vegetarians, who delude themselves that their peculiar and IQ-affecting diet is some sort of virtue, cycling fanatics think that making yourself sweaty, stinking out the office and the home and shortening your life is also some sort of virtue. It isn’t. It’s just a peculiar hobby. I wish you all the best with it, but I do not want to see my taxes wasted on supporting it.

Ahh Henry, there you go again with your assertions that exercise somehow manages to shorten your life span. Please don’t tell me that, like my dearly departed grandmother, you’re worried that by being outside on a cold morning I’ll catch a deathly chill?

How about we make a deal – your taxes don’t have to go towards cycling infrastructure, but my taxes don’t have to go towards keeping your sedentary arse alive.

HenryBG said :

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

LOL, so why don’t you just move to Holland since you obviously love the place so much?

You have a point that for residents of Holland (much of urban Europe actually) Canberra roads would seem quite hilly – most major cities in northern and western europe are dead flat. But that’s a pretty lame excuse for Canberra’s obsession with the car.

At the end of the day it’s not the hills keeping most people in the cars – it’s the car-centric culture, the spread-out nature of our suburbs, and woeful public transport. All of which can be changed over time through policy and planning

KB1971 said :

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Bahahahahahahaa, I chellenge you to come & do the Fitzs Challenge with me this year Henry.

http://www.fitzs.com.au/

2.3km of climing in 160km……….Even that is soft compared to the tour coming up later in the year.

Sounds absdolutely hideous. Why would anyone do that when there are so many better things to do with your time.

Actually, I’ve figured out what all this bicycle-rubbish is all about: like vegetarians, who delude themselves that their peculiar and IQ-affecting diet is some sort of virtue, cycling fanatics think that making yourself sweaty, stinking out the office and the home and shortening your life is also some sort of virtue. It isn’t. It’s just a peculiar hobby. I wish you all the best with it, but I do not want to see my taxes wasted on supporting it.

HenryBG said :

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

OK, OK, “Holland” is flat. It’s the flattest place on Earth. That doesn’t make Woden to Civic a “massive uphill slog”. Sure it’s tough to start out, but you get conditioned to it very quickly, to the point where you need to push harder and harder to get any real exercise from it.

HenryBG said :

You must be on drugs. It is nothing like flat.
In Holland, it’s flat. Check out the difference some time. Most Canberrans seem to be aware of how uncondusive Canberra’s elevations are to comfortable riding, which is why hardly any of them would even consider commuting to work.

This got me thinking. Perhaps Holland is in fact Peru, and it’s the drugs that make them believe it’s flat. In fact it’s terribly terribly hilly with condors catching the orange updrafts. And yes, this is my third post on a bike thread. What a sudden burst of alycraty.

‘Seriously though’, I find that even little rides really help with fitness. It’s not all or nothing.

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Bahahahahahahaa, I chellenge you to come & do the Fitzs Challenge with me this year Henry.

http://www.fitzs.com.au/

2.3km of climing in 160km……….Even that is soft compared to the tour coming up later in the year.

HenryBG said :

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

There are many high school children in Holland that do these distances everyday.. Great care is taken in Holland while being fairly flat as you say,though watch out for the high winds, that gradients are never too steep for cyclists particularly on man made structures like bridges and underpasses. They are also good at combing multi-mode travel like bike n bus and bike n train.
So for Canberra ,nobody expects everyone to ride all the way, though many do, but you may like to try the bike and ride option here.

a hard slog from woden to the city? i think the steepest bit is the bit from the bike path near the Katie Bender memorial and up onto the bridge.

croikey….

puggy said :

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

So that’s three times the average commute experienced in Holland and 102 metres more uphill slog for the return trip than anybody in Holland ever has to endure.

Brandi said :

puggy said :

HenryBG said :

Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog.

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

HenryBG said :

Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.

There is a distinct “uphill” stretch, but at 2.5% grade most of the way, it’s not worth commenting on. Are you riding these stretches on a BMX?

Bravo and agreed. Woden to Civic is as flat as can be. So is Watson to Civic, or Gunghalin for that matter. Inner North or South to Airport? Flat. No excuses not to ride to work, and hundreds of people do every day from Gunners to Airport.
They deserve a safer means of travel than the shoulderless, high-speed Majura Drive. The only pseudo-efficient alternatives at present are to ride down the meatgrinder of Northbourne or worse, Limestone Ave, to get to the (currently flood-muntered) LBG path.
While there are certainly other spending priorities for cycling infrastructure in Canberra, it is disappointing to see another worthy project dropped.

You must be on drugs. It is nothing like flat.
In Holland, it’s flat. Check out the difference some time. Most Canberrans seem to be aware of how uncondusive Canberra’s elevations are to comfortable riding, which is why hardly any of them would even consider commuting to work.

puggy said :

HenryBG said :

Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog.

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

HenryBG said :

Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.

There is a distinct “uphill” stretch, but at 2.5% grade most of the way, it’s not worth commenting on. Are you riding these stretches on a BMX?

Bravo and agreed. Woden to Civic is as flat as can be. So is Watson to Civic, or Gunghalin for that matter. Inner North or South to Airport? Flat. No excuses not to ride to work, and hundreds of people do every day from Gunners to Airport.
They deserve a safer means of travel than the shoulderless, high-speed Majura Drive. The only pseudo-efficient alternatives at present are to ride down the meatgrinder of Northbourne or worse, Limestone Ave, to get to the (currently flood-muntered) LBG path.
While there are certainly other spending priorities for cycling infrastructure in Canberra, it is disappointing to see another worthy project dropped.

Postalgeek said :

poetix said :

Having separated bike lanes would be great. I just rode to Braddon from O’Connor (Postalgeek will snigger, but this is actually an expansion of my bike-scuttles) and it took too long as (a) I’m slow and (b) I have to ride on the pavement as I’m too scared to ride on Northbourne Avenue. I was pleased to see quite a few other pavement wimps too, including a man who was told to stop by the police and put his helmet on, which almost caused me to crash into him in the middle of the pavement (at about 6km an hour). That would have been ironic.

Usually I use bikepaths as I’m rarely in a hurry anyway.

I will only ever snigger with you, poetix

Like I said, cycling is not for everyone and I believe paths should be available to electric-assisted bicycles and other lightweight personal electric vehicles as well.

If your journey was too long, then that’s a journey you might not do on a bicycle, BUT if you had access to a separated cycle way down the central median of Northbourne you might’ve found it quicker, safer, and more enjoyable.

Yes, I’m sure. Apart from anything else the pavements are narrow and rough. (Though I would like to point out defensively I’m not quite in the category that needs lectrix. Somewhere between Tour de France and total slob, with a definite wobble towards the latter. And I did enjoy the police nearly causing an accident. Things you don’t see if you go really fast.)

poetix said :

Having separated bike lanes would be great. I just rode to Braddon from O’Connor (Postalgeek will snigger, but this is actually an expansion of my bike-scuttles) and it took too long as (a) I’m slow and (b) I have to ride on the pavement as I’m too scared to ride on Northbourne Avenue. I was pleased to see quite a few other pavement wimps too, including a man who was told to stop by the police and put his helmet on, which almost caused me to crash into him in the middle of the pavement (at about 6km an hour). That would have been ironic.

Usually I use bikepaths as I’m rarely in a hurry anyway.

I will only ever snigger with you, poetix

Like I said, cycling is not for everyone and I believe paths should be available to electric-assisted bicycles and other lightweight personal electric vehicles as well.

If your journey was too long, then that’s a journey you might not do on a bicycle, BUT if you had access to a separated cycle way down the central median of Northbourne you might’ve found it quicker, safer, and more enjoyable.

HenryBG said :

Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog.

You are kidding right? For the approximately 11-12km trip from Woden to Civic, there is an total elevation gain of 41m (as in all the uphills), with a drop of 61m.

HenryBG said :

Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.

There is a distinct “uphill” stretch, but at 2.5% grade most of the way, it’s not worth commenting on. Are you riding these stretches on a BMX?

Having separated bike lanes would be great. I just rode to Braddon from O’Connor (Postalgeek will snigger, but this is actually an expansion of my bike-scuttles) and it took too long as (a) I’m slow and (b) I have to ride on the pavement as I’m too scared to ride on Northbourne Avenue. I was pleased to see quite a few other pavement wimps too, including a man who was told to stop by the police and put his helmet on, which almost caused me to crash into him in the middle of the pavement (at about 6km an hour). That would have been ironic.

Usually I use bikepaths as I’m rarely in a hurry anyway.

HenryBG said :

.

Holland is *flat*.
Not “easy if you’re a super-fit freak with no life who cycles 300km per week, minimum”.
“Flat” means anybody can get on a bike and get to where they are going. Grandpa can cycle to the shops in Holland. Grandpa *cannot* cycle from Woden to Civic.

Ahh, this is where you are wrong, the guy I had an accident with on my motorcycle was 80 & he was riding from Curtin to Civic to go to the gym & then ride home again.

I regularly ride past people who are 50-60-70 odd & many are not just pootling along. Just yesterday there was a guy and his wife riding road bikes around LBG while I was on my way to work. They were cruising along at 25km/h & both well over 60.

For the naysayers who say the paths are under utilised, today I drove & parked in the parliamentary triangle and rode acorss the lake, there was a lady getting ready to to ride the lake, about 6 commuters passed me along with a group of about 10 social riders. All in the space of the two minutes it took to take my bike off the rack, put my helmet on & rode. Then there was the 1/2 dozen on the bridge at the same time I was on there & it was cold this morning.

So the old chestnut of “its too hilly, cold, hot, wet, uncomfortable blah, blah, blah” are really just excuses to not get out & ride (or do any exercise for that matter).

We have three kids & I still manage to commute up to 4 times a week, I just kill two birds with one stone by including it in my commute. I started out with the 30km, my initial thoughts were to ride to Woden & take the bus the rest of the way but then I thought bugger it I will do the distance no matter how long it takes me. The first time was 1:45 minutes & bugger me dead it hurt. Now I can do it in 57 minutes, quicker than the bus.

It just takes a bit of heart & lateral thinking to organise yourself.

chewy14 said :

C’mon Postalgeek,
30km round trip nothing? hahaha.
Perhaps for a reasonably fit person but have you seen the majority of the population? When over half the population is overweight, I don’t think they’ll be hopping on their bike to ride to work any time soon.
A 30km bike ride would be a massive effort for them. Particularly in the weather conditions of Canberra where we have freezing Winters and boiling Summers.

There just isn’t the need for a cycleway along this route and it’s a waste of money when no one will be using it.

Build it and no one will come.

As I said, you don’t have to get the whole population onto bicycles. I don’t think anyone is asking that everyone be forced to cycle.

But a lot of people don’t cycle because they have to mix it up with cars. Dedicated cycle paths that also allowed conditional access for electric-assisted cycles/scooters/ even segways (eeesh) would be a lot more attractive.

If you want to talk about a waste of money, a waste of money is pouring copious amounts of it into a health care systems burdened by avoidable obesity-related illness. Add to that the waste of money in building a carpark for, say, 2000 cars when you could encourage 2000 people to cycle to work. How much does a single car-spot cost to build and occupy?

However, I’m not going to go to the wall arguing for a separated path for Majura as a priority. If it were a case of not building a Majura path because money needed to be diverted to a busier cycle route I’d certainly agree with that. Nevertheless, Gunghalin is growing, Fyshwick and the airport are major commuting destinations, and if you’re going to build a road, it will be a lot cheaper to install a path during construction rather than after construction. And more responsible than just requiring cars and cycles to mix it up at high speeds.

If people don’t want cyclists on roads, fine. I, like many, many cyclists, don’t particularly enjoy riding on busy roads. But cyclists aren’t going to just disappear, and by objecting to alternative infrastructure you simply perpetuate the vicious circle of car congestion, and, in many cases, the grossly inefficient expenditure in resources in facilitating and moving 1.5 tons in order to move an 80kg person.

The one plus side is that more people will get exercise by having to walk further from their carspot to their destination.

johnboy said :

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

Do you think that there is any realistic scenario where a large proportion of the population, say >10%, will cycle to work in our city?

“Personal anecdotes from freaks who cycle 30km to work aside, you don’t have to believe me when I tell you Canberra is not a place where people will ever want to cycle to work – just go outside and check it out – everybody’s in their car.”

Everybody’s in their car because the Government has done nothing but pander to Canberra’s fat behind by providing cheap and abundant car parking.
Make parking prohibitively expensive and you won’t think twice about buying an electric bicycle that will assist you to cruise at 25km an hour.

johnboy said :

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

Yeah, but you have to take into account the particular physics at play. No matter where you ride a bike in Canberra, it’s uphill.

johnboy said :

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

OK, so next time they bring up the “In Holland, blablabla”, let’s require them to start off with an explanation of how they will make Canberra flat like Holland.

“we’ve always been fat and stupid and that’s how we intend to stay”

I don’t know about you but I’ve got bigger ambitions for this town than that.

yellowsnow said :

Dude, I’m now seriously concerned about your health and quality of life more than anything. Sounds like you’re spending your whole life in your lounge room or car, too afraid to venture outside because of all the hills and sweaty cyclists endangering your life out there.

Personal anecdotes from freaks who cycle 30km to work aside, you don’t have to believe me when I tell you Canberra is not a place where people will ever want to cycle to work – just go outside and check it out – everybody’s in their car.

As for the “no hills” comment – you must be insane – Belconnen is basically beyond the Rubicon for any normal person. Woden to Civic is a massive uphill slog. Same for Tuggeranong to Woden.
It’s no good telling me about how fit *you* are and about how you don’t even notice the slope riding North out of Woden – everybody else notices it, and that’s what’s keeping them in their cars.

Holland is *flat*.
Not “easy if you’re a super-fit freak with no life who cycles 300km per week, minimum”.
“Flat” means anybody can get on a bike and get to where they are going. Grandpa can cycle to the shops in Holland. Grandpa *cannot* cycle from Woden to Civic.

C’mon Postalgeek,
30km round trip nothing? hahaha.
Perhaps for a reasonably fit person but have you seen the majority of the population? When over half the population is overweight, I don’t think they’ll be hopping on their bike to ride to work any time soon.
A 30km bike ride would be a massive effort for them. Particularly in the weather conditions of Canberra where we have freezing Winters and boiling Summers.

There just isn’t the need for a cycleway along this route and it’s a waste of money when no one will be using it.

Build it and no one will come.

Postalgeek said :

30kms round trip in Canberra is nothing for a seasoned cyclist. Maybe a 30 minute commute each way.

We’re also entering the realm of relativity by declaring there are steep hills in Canberra. Most of Canberra is in a valley. There’re no steep hills for the majority of commuters in Canberra unless you riding from Woden to Fyshwick and have to negotiate Hindmarsh Drive, probably the most cycle-unfriendly stretch of commuter corridor in the ACT, or you live or work on top of Mt Ainslie, Stromlo, Black Mountain, or Red Hill.

If you find a particular rise steep, it’s probably because you are unfit. But then I’m sure there are many unfit people out there who would find a speed bump steep.

It’s not about forcing people to cycle who don’t want to cycle. It’s about encouraging those that do by creating safe and convenient environments, which in turn relieves the roads for those people who prefer to drive.

I never understand why people who prefer to drive are so stupidly hell-bent on keeping everyone else in their cars. It’s as if they want competition for parking, more peak-hour traffic, and delays at the bowser. It’s myopic.

I agree, all you have to do a loop of the Tidbinblla/Cotter Roads to realise that the city commuting paths are not much of a challenge. But that comes with time on the bike.

I dont get the arguments either, the ones arguing for registration & that bikes should not be on the road are arguing against an off road bike path…..go figure.

First of all, the rego for bikes ideas are stupid. How often do you call the Police and provide them with the rego number of a car that cut you off in traffic?
Did you call them when the four young males made stupid faces, mooned or swore at you at the traffic lights? Or did you just shake your head and drove the rest of the way to your destination fuming at how you would like a James Bond car so you could blow them off the road.
Needless to say the Police would probably tell you to suck it up princess. They don’t have the resources to deal with stupidity on the roads unless it’s a fatality. The first thing they ask when you lodge a noise complaint, is if you’ve gone over to speak with the rascally neighbour making all that noise.
So no, rego plates on bikes won’t do sh!t.

Secondly, the reason Katy Gallagher may have back flipped is that she is counting on a significant reduction in car drivers using the Majura Parkway once they start implementing the findings and recommendations from their Parking and Transport studies.

The writing is on the wall, sooner or later the ACT Government will have to significantly reduce or stop funding ACTION buses to the tune of $70million a year and start actually earning money on the ACT government owned car parks. I suspect the significant increases in car rego costs over the last few years are aimed at dissuading certain sectors of the community from owning cars.

All the signs are pointing to them increasing the number of users on public transport, the secondary impact of a reduction in car numbers is…wait for it…less cars on the road so that using the on road cycle lanes is now safer…taa dah!!!

30kms round trip in Canberra is nothing for a seasoned cyclist. Maybe a 30 minute commute each way.

We’re also entering the realm of relativity by declaring there are steep hills in Canberra. Most of Canberra is in a valley. There’re no steep hills for the majority of commuters in Canberra unless you riding from Woden to Fyshwick and have to negotiate Hindmarsh Drive, probably the most cycle-unfriendly stretch of commuter corridor in the ACT, or you live or work on top of Mt Ainslie, Stromlo, Black Mountain, or Red Hill.

If you find a particular rise steep, it’s probably because you are unfit. But then I’m sure there are many unfit people out there who would find a speed bump steep.

It’s not about forcing people to cycle who don’t want to cycle. It’s about encouraging those that do by creating safe and convenient environments, which in turn relieves the roads for those people who prefer to drive.

I never understand why people who prefer to drive are so stupidly hell-bent on keeping everyone else in their cars. It’s as if they want competition for parking, more peak-hour traffic, and delays at the bowser. It’s myopic.

Honestly,
take a look at the route for this road and ask yourself how many cyclists would be likely to use it every day?
As far as I can see the major potential cycling users would be people travelling from Gungahlin to the Airport/Fyshwick area for work.

Even the shortest route from the edge of Gungahlin to the edge of the Airport is over 10km so 20km round trip at the least, but probably more likely to be 30km+ round trip for the majority of users.

The Airport/Fyshwick area has approximately 25 000 employees working there. Using the conservative 2.5% figure shown before and assuming everyone that works there lives in Gungahlin (which is wrong) there would be 625 potential cyclists on this route.

The real figure would be much, much lower.

Sounds like a fantastic use of taxpayer money.

drfelonious said :

I’m a cyclist. I don’t think Majura Parkway is a high priority (or frankly, even a medium priority) for cycling infrastructure expenditure. Let’s get the main commuting pathways to/from the major centres right first.

Simple way to tell what needs more funding – where do cyclists die/get maimed/seriously injured most often?

I think Pedal Power need to ask themselves this question, get the data and adjust their advocacy efforts accordingly.

Its not about the priority, but what was promised by the Chief Minister at the time of the announcement. You should be able to provide the separation without increasing the cost.
In Europe you are not allowed to ride in the shoulders on Major highways,in fact you would be fined for doing so. So why do we allow it here? when you could provide that extra bit of safety at little overall expense.
Maybe you could use the existing Majura Road as the cycleway/access road once the Parkway in Built.

HenryBG said :

a) define “significant proportion”

b) I’m taking bets on the proportion of Canberrans willing to do 2 hours of strenuous exercise every workday.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think this is going to change. People are getting *lazier* year on year, and only complete freaks these days are willing to engage in the level of exercise and danger required to commute to work by bicycle. It’s just a sad fact.

Dude, I’m now seriously concerned about your health and quality of life more than anything. Sounds like you’re spending your whole life in your lounge room or car, too afraid to venture outside because of all the hills and sweaty cyclists endangering your life out there.

btw – I checked and according to ABS census data around 2.5% of Canberrans traveled to work by bike in on census day 2006 – the highest percentage out of any Australian capital city, but still i probably would not call that ‘significant’ so you might be right on that. (presumably the figure would be a bit higher in spring and summer though)

see http://www.cycle-helmets.com/travel-to-work-1976-2006.pdf and http://profile.id.com.au/Default.aspx?id=400&pg=117&gid=200&type=enum

Incidentally (and off topic) the thing that shocked me going through the ‘modes of travel to work’ data is the pronounced decline in public transport decline between the early 1990s and now – a 30% decrease. Canberra and Hobart are the only cities that have gone backwards, everywhere else patronage has increased. Whatever ACTION buses have been doing in the last 20 years isn’t working – time to go back to the drawing board

puggy said :

Just to add the numbers, the 2011 cordon count into the city counted around 2100 bicycles in 90 minutes. That’s not too bad, but I don’t know how that compares to vehicle counts in the same time frame.

A distance of 10-12km is not 2 hours worth of exercise. Besides, how many people go 15 minutes out of their way to get to a gym, to do a 1 hour cycle class (which is way, way more strenuous than commuting), and then take another 15 minutes to get home (or the reverse if it’s in the morning)?

Most start points for a 10-12km journey and a city destination, aside from Belconnen, basically result in a flat route. Anywhere in Gungahlin, Woden, Weston Creek, and the Inner North is a flat trip. Also, my trip in from Gungahlin is often faster than the car journey (but that probably says more about Gungahlin roads).

I ride off road cycle paths all the way, there is little danger, aside from hemeltless, fixie riding, uni student, hipster, bicycle ninjas in the dark evenings.

I’ve been riding to work for only a couple of months now. It’s about 14.5km each way from Macgregor, and I try to make half of my weekly commute by bike. I drive one day, because I’ve got to drop my son off to his nana’s for the day, and bus the other days. In that time, I’ve knocked 15-20 minutes off the time it takes me to do the trip, depending on what lights I have to stop at. My best effort’s about 35 minutes total time to get into work. Generally, if I leave home around the same time I’d need to leave to walk to the bus stop, I beat the bus in. I’m sure as hell no athlete either – there would be plenty of opportunities for me to improve that time.

As a father of two under 3yo, there’s not a heap of time for exercise before or after work. Hopping on the bike, and getting that exercise (after the purchase price of the bike, for free) while I’m going to work is perfect – and I’m more alert and energised while at work too. Win win.

I’d much prefer that Pedal Power focused on getting the mess that is the existing bike network fixed up, before worrying about bike highways to be honest. My ride into work is a mess of on-road cycle paths that start, then stop mid-road, before starting again, before stopping again, and so on. There are sections of road I refuse to ride on, as there’s no on-road path, and the road is just too dangerous to ride on. So I’m pushed off onto a narrow, crumbling and broken footpath. I can only dream of a bike highway…

HenryBG said :

a) define “significant proportion”

b) I’m taking bets on the proportion of Canberrans willing to do 2 hours of strenuous exercise every workday.

c) I’m also taking bets on how many Canberrans would call 1% a “significant proportion”.

Commuting by bicycle in Holland is easy: it’s flat and nobody goes much further than 4km. So lots of people do it.

In Canberra, it’s not at all flat, it’s not easy, and the distances are triple. And very, very few Canberrans do it.

Just to add the numbers, the 2011 cordon count into the city counted around 2100 bicycles in 90 minutes. That’s not too bad, but I don’t know how that compares to vehicle counts in the same time frame.

A distance of 10-12km is not 2 hours worth of exercise. Besides, how many people go 15 minutes out of their way to get to a gym, to do a 1 hour cycle class (which is way, way more strenuous than commuting), and then take another 15 minutes to get home (or the reverse if it’s in the morning)?

Most start points for a 10-12km journey and a city destination, aside from Belconnen, basically result in a flat route. Anywhere in Gungahlin, Woden, Weston Creek, and the Inner North is a flat trip. Also, my trip in from Gungahlin is often faster than the car journey (but that probably says more about Gungahlin roads).

I ride off road cycle paths all the way, there is little danger, aside from hemeltless, fixie riding, uni student, hipster, bicycle ninjas in the dark evenings.

I’m a cyclist. I don’t think Majura Parkway is a high priority (or frankly, even a medium priority) for cycling infrastructure expenditure. Let’s get the main commuting pathways to/from the major centres right first.

Simple way to tell what needs more funding – where do cyclists die/get maimed/seriously injured most often?

I think Pedal Power need to ask themselves this question, get the data and adjust their advocacy efforts accordingly.

HenryBG said :

The reason the vast majority of Canberrans do not and will never cycle to work is that their average commute
a) is about 3 times longer than the average commute in Holland
b) incorporates steep hills

The average Canberra commute, if done on a bicycle, would involve a similar amount of effort to a day’s work – not many people have so little life that they are willing to waste 30% of it just commuting to work, risking heart attacks, repelling work colleagues because of their stink, and having to fork out vastly increased costs on groceries to up their calorie intake to cover all this pointless and endangering effort.

For a bloke who seems to have a lot of confidence & go about him, that comment makes you seem pretty soft.

Its not that hard to ride to work, work all day & then ride home again. Mine is 60km round trip when I do both ways. 30 is a doddle for me now & trust me, Canberra has no steep hills on any of the commuting routes.

HenryBG said :

You are living in a dreamworld if you think this is going to change. People are getting *lazier* year on year, and only complete freaks these days are willing to engage in the level of exercise and danger required to commute to work by bicycle. It’s just a sad fact.

I’d say this argument is more legit than the rego brigade argument. I also think your average Canberran doesn’t want to get out of their warm car on a -6 frosty morning at 7am either.

yellowsnow said :

The average Canberran lives 10-12km from Civic. So let’s assume the average Canberran lives this distance from work (obviously not everyone works in Civic so this is not going to be accurate) – this translates to between 30 mins commute (fit person on road bike) to 50mins (unfit person on mountain bike), perhaps 1 hour absolute max for someone totally unfit or riding on bike paths with lots of road crossings and other obstacles.

Whether the average person would be willing to expend this kind of energy every day, twice a day, is another question – but a significant proportion of Canberrans do.

a) define “significant proportion”

b) I’m taking bets on the proportion of Canberrans willing to do 2 hours of strenuous exercise every workday.

c) I’m also taking bets on how many Canberrans would call 1% a “significant proportion”.

Commuting by bicycle in Holland is easy: it’s flat and nobody goes much further than 4km. So lots of people do it.

In Canberra, it’s not at all flat, it’s not easy, and the distances are triple. And very, very few Canberrans do it.

You are living in a dreamworld if you think this is going to change. People are getting *lazier* year on year, and only complete freaks these days are willing to engage in the level of exercise and danger required to commute to work by bicycle. It’s just a sad fact.

dvaey said :

No doubt as a cyclist who rides everyday, you’d also like to see others learn the rules, which would then reflect well on all cyclists. If the schools can fund road-ready courses for all students, surely it shouldnt be too hard to fund a cycle safety course/licence.

I didn’t want to get involved but your stupidity brought me to do it. I dare say every cyclist, that is of driving age, would have a drivers licence already.

We’ve heard the rest of your bullsh*t registration argument before, you’ve heard the response to it many times before.

A legit post about a cycle path funded by the taxpayers of the act, of which cyclists are many, always get’s hijacked by you and your ‘my rego pays for the road’ brigade. Rego for bikes will never happen. The government wants people to ride bikes. They don’t want to discourage it by wrapping it up in more red tape and government control. Suck it up and get over it!

gasman said :

Austroads standards specify that on high volume roads at 80km/h and above, the bicycle lane should be physically separated from the road for safety reasons.

Then for God sake can we have our 80 kph roads back in Weston Creek and Woden and get rid of these pathetic “merge straight after a traffic light so we can squeeze a bike lane in” please!!!!

dtc said :

Myles Peterson said :

And number plates. It’s almost impossible to identify and report a cyclist for dangerous riding.

I presume you are trolling, but anyway – where (this is a serious question) would you put a number play on a bicycle?

It could be printed on the approved hi-visibility vest that would become compulsory to wear under the new “Equality for Cyclists Program”.

As for the cycle way along the M7, I wonder if there is any usage data on it. Can’t say I’ve ever seen more than a handful (number counted on one hand) of cyclists on there each time I travel that road.

HenryBG said :

The average Canberra commute, if done on a bicycle, would involve a similar amount of effort to a day’s work – not many people have so little life that they are willing to waste 30% of it just commuting to work, risking heart attacks, repelling work colleagues because of their stink, and having to fork out vastly increased costs on groceries to up their calorie intake to cover all this pointless and endangering effort.

LOL, not sure if you’re serious or trolling – let’s say the former. The average Canberran lives 10-12km from Civic. So let’s assume the average Canberran lives this distance from work (obviously not everyone works in Civic so this is not going to be accurate) – this translates to between 30 mins commute (fit person on road bike) to 50mins (unfit person on mountain bike), perhaps 1 hour absolute max for someone totally unfit or riding on bike paths with lots of road crossings and other obstacles. So for many people door-to-door commutes by bike would be only slightly longer than by car at peak times, and quite likely quicker than the bus (which generally take excessively circuitous routes).

Whether the average person would be willing to expend this kind of energy every day, twice a day, is another question – but a significant proportion of Canberrans do.

Of course in reality many Canberrans have to drop off/pick up kids from school, go shopping, have various health issues etc, and cycling will never attract them as a serious commuting option. But that doesn’t mean infrastructure shouldn’t be targeted at cyclists as they are a significant proportion of taxpayers and also act to take cars off the road, making the roads a little less busy than they would otherwise be for those who insist on driving everywhere

As for calorie intake, that’s just a convenient myth justifying inactivity. Contrary to my own expectations, i find that the more often i cycle the less i have to eat, perhaps because my body gets more efficient at transforming food into energy, and the fitter I am the less energy i need to cover the same distance. Also, on the days i cycle i need to drink less coffee to wake up in the morning, and less alcohol to de-stress after work.

Felix the Cat said :

AFAIK there are no dedicated “bike paths” in ACT, rather they are shared paths and therefore not suitable for high speed “serious” cycling.

So, let me get this right, because cyclists have difficulty sharing a designated pathway with other users, they should be allowed to share the roadway with other users? Seriously, the very few cyclists I have seen using the on-road cycle lanes are more meandering along, than doing any ‘serious’ ‘high speed’ cycling.

Jethro said :

On a side note, as someone who rides every day I don’t see a problem with requiring people who ride on arterial roads to have a license to do so. There are specific road rules and skill sets that apply to bicycles, and if people want to ride on major roads they shouldn’t have a problem demonstrating them.

No doubt as a cyclist who rides everyday, you’d also like to see others learn the rules, which would then reflect well on all cyclists. If the schools can fund road-ready courses for all students, surely it shouldnt be too hard to fund a cycle safety course/licence.

Myles Peterson said :

“No-one is saying you must get licence and rego for a bicycle, but, if you want to bring it onto our public roadway, why shouldnt you?”

^this

is getting boring!!

As a cyclist I reckon the Majura Parkway is badly needed for cars, but not so much for cyclists. All depends where you live and work I suppose. It’s a shame the dual lanes won’t continue all the way through the back of Gungahlin to the Barton Highway.

harvyk1 said :

Yeah motorists break the law, if they didn’t there would be no such things as speed camera’s. But here is the difference, a motorist has a big plate with numbers which can be used to track the driver down when they do. As such it is a big disincentive to break the law. A cyclist on the other hand has no such disincentive, and I’ve ever heard of cases where something like receiving a speeding ticket is actually considered a badge of honor among some cycling groups. (Remembering not to tar them all with the same brush).

Here’s the other big difference:

You won’t need more than one hand to count the number of people cyclists, without plates, have killed in Australia over the last couple of decades.

“I still don’t understand why ACT doesn’t follow international best practice for cycle infrastructure like other countries:”
Because we aren’t sheep who follow blindly what others do. The Copenhagen example works because they only have to commute roughly 5 km, as opposed to 15 for a suburbanite in the A.C.T.
They have a more condensed population, double that of Canberra, living within an area the size of the Inner North. Hence, why they have more money to spend on infrastructure and why it is polpular enough to be viable. They don’t have to cycle in 35+ heat in summer either. Compare apples with apples.

gasman – I enjoyed reading how you say it’s “cheap” to build this segregated infrastructure. Why has the government declared it too expensive then? If it IS so small an amount, why not do some fund raising and help them out.

As for the suggestions about using the median strip, such as Northbourne, it only works for a block at a time, then you have the intersections to contend with. If you are to turn right, for instance, you have to cross the path of vehicles turning right in order to get to the left of the road where cyclists typically dwell, only during a right green arrow. This creates the need for yet another delay in the traffic light cycle just for bikes, causing increased congestion. Also, you eradicate the only place for light rail or mass transit! Got a solution for this anyone? [Apart from a cycle lane off Majura Rd/Pkwy]

HenryBG said :

Canberra ratepayers already pay far more per cyclist on cycling infrastructure than do the taxpayers of Denmark and Holland.

Canberra is not a compact city situated on flat land. The paths we do have already cover a huge extent and are very poorly utilised compared with paths in the places you mention. Canberrans already pay a lot of tax – rego fees for example are the highest in the country – and we do not deserve to be slugged with extra charges to pay for stuff few people want.

If you come up with a scheme to use labour drawn from imprisoned criminals to build you more paths, however, I would be supportive. Especially if there were whips involved.

Simple. Make bike paths tollways with a charge based on, say, a 20 year payback.

ma7trlb said :

Maybe Katy should add “Katy on two wheels” to her “Katy on the buses” routine, and maybe get Tony Gill to take her for a ride down the road. She’d pretty quickly change the plans I’d reckon. It does seem a bit odd that the access to one of our premier MTB areas should be so poorly accessible by bike?

Actually, if you look at the plans for the Majura Parkway you’ll see that the freeway will cut right through the middle of Majura Pines. So no more single-track MTBing in idyllic forest, and presumably no more need for cyclists to get there! Maybe that’s Katy’s logic

HenryBG said :

The paths we do have already cover a huge extent and are very poorly utilised compared with paths in the places you mention.

I reckon ACT bike paths are quite well utilised, and an excellent return on investment – it’s the bike LANES which are underused, primarily because most cyclists consider them as too dangerous. Little wonder – most are just rebadged breakdown lanes with a gravelly surface and traffic zooming past at 80-100kmh alongside. I love cycling, but that’s not my idea of fun!

I for one am tired of my tax dollars subsidising roads for motor vehicles (have you SEEN how many of those fail to obey the road rules??) when there are still weird gaps in the cycle paths around Canberra. 😉

More seriously, it’s better to build in the bike paths now than to wait and inconvenience everyone who uses the road when they are finally considered necessary. Assuming that they ever are, since only really bullet-proof people will ride on the road and that will make it seem like a poor investment in people moving to put in a cycleway.

Felix the Cat said :

AFAIK there are no dedicated “bike paths” in ACT, rather they are shared paths and therefore not suitable for high speed “serious” cycling.

Well they are obviously suitable enough considering the number of serious cyclists I have spoken to who do use them.

Felix the Cat said :

Keep making generalised statements about cyclists breaking the law and the cyclists will keep making generalised staements about motorists and how they break the law.

Yeah motorists break the law, if they didn’t there would be no such things as speed camera’s. But here is the difference, a motorist has a big plate with numbers which can be used to track the driver down when they do. As such it is a big disincentive to break the law. A cyclist on the other hand has no such disincentive, and I’ve ever heard of cases where something like receiving a speeding ticket is actually considered a badge of honor among some cycling groups. (Remembering not to tar them all with the same brush).

What I don’t understand in this whole debate with cyclists, is why cyclists want to follow the road, via on road cycleways?
Maybe i’m not a hardcore cyclist, but I far prefer riding on cyclepaths than I do on the road.
So for Majura road a path closer to the hills would be more preferable IMO.

I have a cycle path map and often find the cycle paths a more direct, enjoyable and easier way to travel, or am I missing something….. I’d rather that more cycle path be built to link places together. How about a more direct cycle paths between town centres?

I see HenryBG is again ranting against investment in cycling infrastructure on this thread, whilst ranting against climate change denialists on another thread.

Sorry HenryBG, if you accept the science of climate change but refuse to accept that a lower carbon future is going to involve investing in transport infrastructure that reduces our reliance on cars, you are worse than the denialists, because at least they’re not hypocrites.

On a side note, as someone who rides every day I don’t see a problem with requiring people who ride on arterial roads to have a license to do so. There are specific road rules and skill sets that apply to bicycles, and if people want to ride on major roads they shouldn’t have a problem demonstrating them.

harvyk1 said :

I’ve lost count of the number of “serious” cyclists who chose to ride on the road, when there is a perfectly good cycle path running parallel to the road less than 2 meters away. It’s not as though those paths are not suitable for cyclists considering there are cyclists put there who do use them. It’s just the majority of “serious” cyclists I see are the first to refuse to use them, the first to ignore road rules when they don’t suit and the first to cry how it’s all unfair and how other countries do such a better job of looking after cyclists.

AFAIK there are no dedicated “bike paths” in ACT, rather they are shared paths and therefore not suitable for high speed “serious” cycling.

Keep making generalised statements about cyclists breaking the law and the cyclists will keep making generalised staements about motorists and how they break the law.

johnboy said :

Is the truck driver wearing his seatbelt?

+1 Bravo johnboy. Good come back.

Katy backflips on cycleway along Majura Parkway

What sort of bike was she riding?

Pics/video or it didn’t happen.

harvyk1 said :

johnboy said :

Is the truck driver wearing his seatbelt?

What truck driver? If he is in there he can’t see out because he has a blue tarp in place of the windscreen.

Also, he’s probably juiced up on pep pills, with pupils smaller than purely theoretical particles.

“No-one is saying you must get licence and rego for a bicycle, but, if you want to bring it onto our public roadway, why shouldnt you?”

^this

johnboy said :

Is the truck driver wearing his seatbelt?

What truck driver? If he is in there he can’t see out because he has a blue tarp in place of the windscreen.

p1 said :

harvyk1 said :

OK, I’m going to play both sides of the debate right here.

Pro Cyclist – Standard Argument #615
Anti Cyclist – Standard Rebuttal #721, Standard Argument #16
Pro Cyclist – Your an idiot Standard Rebuttal #157, Standard Argument #72
Anti Cyclist – Your an idiot and so’s you mum, Standard Argument #78
Pro Cyclist – Keep my mum out of it, Standard Rebuttal #92

etc…

Why are all the standard arguments/rebuttals/insults in no particular order? Wouldn’t it make sense to number them temporally?

Wait, what was I thinking, nothing about this makes sense.

Because the order in which arguments and rebuttals come are slightly different in each RA thread.

I personally have no issue with a cycle way been built specifically for cyclists, of course the question needs to be asked, how many cyclists will chose to use said cycle path, and how many will still ride in lanes reserved for cars anyway?

I’ve lost count of the number of “serious” cyclists who chose to ride on the road, when there is a perfectly good cycle path running parallel to the road less than 2 meters away. It’s not as though those paths are not suitable for cyclists considering there are cyclists put there who do use them. It’s just the majority of “serious” cyclists I see are the first to refuse to use them, the first to ignore road rules when they don’t suit and the first to cry how it’s all unfair and how other countries do such a better job of looking after cyclists.

Is the truck driver wearing his seatbelt?

Sgt.Bungers said :

Erg0 said :

If that cyclist is so concerned about his safety, he should probably put a helmet on.

Correct. A helmet would protect him if he were to be sucked under a 60 tonne B double.

Given that he’s two-dimensional, I doubt it will do him much harm either way. My (fairly obtuse) point is that it probably doesn’t serve the cycling lobby too well to use an illustration which shows a cyclist breaking the law.

Sgt.Bungers said :

Not onto this again are we? Motor vehicle licences and registration are required for a person who wishes to operate a vehicle powered by a motor in a public place.

So would the licence you’re suggesting allow a person to convey oneself or goods in a public place via a wheeled device? Would this licence be required for skateboards? Anyone pushing a shopping trolley? What about kick scooters? Wheel chairs?

Would you really want to legislate such a slippery slope into being?

I think one criteria youve missed, is the public roadway aspect, rather than a ‘public place’.

None of the things you mention (skateboards, shopping trolleys) should be taken in the on-road designated cyclepaths. No-one is saying you must get licence and rego for a bicycle, but, if you want to bring it onto our public roadway, why shouldnt you? There are hundreds of km of non on-road cycleways in this city.This law wouldnt affect the 8 year old riding his bike down his street (unless his street happens to be a designated public cycleway).

The same way that laws about registration and licensing do not apply to motor vehicles that arent on the public roadway. You can drive your car around on a farm with no traffic to your hearts content with no rego or number plates, but as soon as you join the traffic flow, why should you be any different to the rest of the traffic?

harvyk1 said :

OK, I’m going to play both sides of the debate right here.

Pro Cyclist – Standard Argument #615
Anti Cyclist – Standard Rebuttal #721, Standard Argument #16
Pro Cyclist – Your an idiot Standard Rebuttal #157, Standard Argument #72
Anti Cyclist – Your an idiot and so’s you mum, Standard Argument #78
Pro Cyclist – Keep my mum out of it, Standard Rebuttal #92

etc…

Why are all the standard arguments/rebuttals/insults in no particular order? Wouldn’t it make sense to number them temporally?

Wait, what was I thinking, nothing about this makes sense.

Myles Peterson said :

“I presume you are trolling…”

Not in this instance. If you can fit a plate to a motorcycle, you can fit one to a bike.

Well, there are a fair few physical differences between a motorcycle and a bike. I can see how you could feasibly fit a very small plate to a bike, but I dont see how a very small plate helps your ’cause’ since you wouldnt be able to read it.

Why stop at taxing wheeled vehicles? Around Marcus Clarke st they have spent a lot of money fixing up the paving, no doubt to the benefit of those tax dodging pedestrians. Not sure why I have to pay for that.

Erg0 said :

BicycleCanberra said :

HenryBG said :

Canberra ratepayers already pay far more per cyclist on cycling infrastructure than do the taxpayers of Denmark and Holland.

What Rubbish! In Holland they pay at least $39 per person on cycle infrastructure ,in the ACT it’s around $8 per person. Compare that Australia wide and that would be far less. Its about spending the transport dollars evenly and not just on roads, and improving safety for everyone.

I have no particular stake in this, but I thought I’d point out that you and Henry are talking abou two different things (dollars per cyclist vs. dollars per citizen).

Thank you.

Trust “BicycleCanberra” to attempt to use completely misleading statistics in pushing its barrow.

The reason the vast majority of Canberrans do not and will never cycle to work is that their average commute
a) is about 3 times longer than the average commute in Holland
b) incorporates steep hills

The average Canberra commute, if done on a bicycle, would involve a similar amount of effort to a day’s work – not many people have so little life that they are willing to waste 30% of it just commuting to work, risking heart attacks, repelling work colleagues because of their stink, and having to fork out vastly increased costs on groceries to up their calorie intake to cover all this pointless and endangering effort.

harvyk1 said :

OK, I’m going to play both sides of the debate right here.

Pro Cyclist – Standard Argument #615
Anti Cyclist – Standard Rebuttal #721, Standard Argument #16
Pro Cyclist – Your an idiot Standard Rebuttal #157, Standard Argument #72
Anti Cyclist – Your an idiot and so’s you mum, Standard Argument #78
Pro Cyclist – Keep my mum out of it, Standard Rebuttal #92

etc…

You make some valid points there

Myles Peterson said :

Licence ACT cyclist and use the money to help fund infrastructure. It’ll weed out the reckless bad apples, create accountability and provide some badly needed road-rule training.

And number plates. It’s almost impossible to identify and report a cyclist for dangerous riding.

Just curious how much would you expect an 8 year old to pay for his/her licence? I presum that they would have to get a licence if they wanted licence plates or would they just be sold to anyone.

If so, what would be the qualifications for a cycle licence and would you have the same parameters for a 10 and a 50 years old? After all they will be using the same equipment in the same manner in the same circumstances.

Not being a smart @55 but just curious. These questions alway pop into my head when someone suggests it and I have never gotten around to asking.

OK, I’m going to play both sides of the debate right here.

Pro Cyclist – Standard Argument #615
Anti Cyclist – Standard Rebuttal #721, Standard Argument #16
Pro Cyclist – Your an idiot Standard Rebuttal #157, Standard Argument #72
Anti Cyclist – Your an idiot and so’s you mum, Standard Argument #78
Pro Cyclist – Keep my mum out of it, Standard Rebuttal #92

etc…

Sgt.Bungers said :

Erg0 said :

If that cyclist is so concerned about his safety, he should probably put a helmet on.

Correct. A helmet would protect him if he were to be sucked under a 60 tonne B double.

Heh, nice! Much like skiing/snowboarding injuries, someone smacks into a tree, and all the sheep shake their heads and talk about helmets being mandatory for snowsports. Only smacking into trees and other such objects usually results in busted ribs/internal injuries. Helmets are excellent for those.

Postalgeek said :

HenryBG said :

If you come up with a scheme to use labour drawn from imprisoned criminals to build you more paths, however, I would be supportive. Especially if there were whips involved.

I think some cyclists and Henry BG could find some common ground here, especially if it involved Canberra’s finest hit-and-runners.

Disappointing news from Gallagher.

Very. The lack of foresight continues. Next time there’s a genuine oil shock, Canberrans will continue to be doomed to their cars… unless we change our way of thinking now.

Postalgeek said :

I don’t believe we needed separated lanes everywhere (though it would be nice), but certainly for high speed corridors like the Monaro and Majura the traffic should be separated.

I agree. Any road classed as major collector or higher, or any road that has a speed limit of 60 km/h or higher should have segregated cycle facilities. Throw a bicyclist averaging 20 – 30 km/h into motor vehicle traffic averaging 60 to 100 km/h, and we’ve got ourselves a conflict. Look at Adelaide avenue where cyclists must negotiate those horrendous exit ramps whilst being unable to see if a motor vehicle is bearing down on them.

Postalgeek said :

Once again I would suggest, if money is an issue, flexible road reflectors or raised reflectors would at least create a visual barrier and audible alert. Cars can still pass over them but are far less likely to casually stray.

http://www.reflectiveroad.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Leitboy_L30.jpg

http://www.autospec.co.za/thumb/browse/property/productmedia/pekay/images/adhesives/237-road-reflector3.jpg

These would help a bit, but will not physically stop a straying vehicle from running over the top of a person. They’d also create the disadvantage of making it difficult for someone driving to pull over and stop if they had to.

They also don’t address the other key problem with cycle lanes… that sharing a space motor vehicles traveling at high speed, when you’re not in one yourself, is an incredibly nerve racking and unpleasant experience. Hence why only the tiniest proportion of Canberrans brave current cycle lanes to get to work.

Postalgeek said :

The other approach should be to locate cycle lanes in the median strips when they are wide enough, to protect cyclists from traffic leaving and entering from side roads. This would be most effective on somewhere like Northbourne.

Spot on. This would be a far better use of median strip space than… nothing.

Erg0 said :

If that cyclist is so concerned about his safety, he should probably put a helmet on.

Correct. A helmet would protect him if he were to be sucked under a 60 tonne B double.

Myles Peterson said :

Licence ACT cyclist and use the money to help fund infrastructure. It’ll weed out the reckless bad apples, create accountability and provide some badly needed road-rule training.

And number plates. It’s almost impossible to identify and report a cyclist for dangerous riding.

Not onto this again are we? Motor vehicle licences and registration are required for a person who wishes to operate a vehicle powered by a motor in a public place.

So would the licence you’re suggesting allow a person to convey oneself or goods in a public place via a wheeled device? Would this licence be required for skateboards? Anyone pushing a shopping trolley? What about kick scooters? Wheel chairs?

Once we’ve got everyone licenced to use their own body to power a vehicle, we can talk about registering all wheeled vehicles… including the aforementioned kick scooters, skateboards, shopping trolleys, wheel chairs… should probably register electric scooters for the elderly and disabled while we’re at it.

If we did implement regulations which required human powered vehicles to be registered… why stop there? A person walking on a road may break a rule every now and then as well. Let’s require anyone walking in a public place to be registered and bearing a registration plate… when too many people flout that law, we’ll shave everyone’s heads and tattoo registration numbers and bar codes to their scalps…

Would you really want to legislate such a slippery slope into being?

Austroads standards specify that on high volume roads at 80km/h and above, the bicycle lane should be physically separated from the road for safety reasons.

Spending a small amount of money on proper cycle ways saves the community a lot of money in the long term, and benefits everyone:

– every bicycle means one less car on the roads, so less congestion for everybody
– less pollution and carbon dioxide release, lowering the future costs of climate change
– less demand for foreign oil, better for the economy
– less health costs as cycling leads to lower levels of obesity, heart disease, depression and cancer
– less parking problems for cars. One car space can park 10 bicycles
– less injuries for cyclists
– lower third party premiums

It really is a no brainer – better cycle infrastructure, at a very small cost, benefits everybody, including non-cyclists. Unfortunately, our leaders seem to have no brains.

connno said :

Maybe the money has now gone to something more important… Something like the upgrade of an intersection where yet another life was lost over the weekend.
Worried about riding along Majura Rd? Don’t…

Same logic could be applied to upgrading Majura road at all. Worried about driving along Majura road? Don’t…

Solidarity said :

Need it build today? Why is it a need? If you don’t like it, move to Holland.

Ahh, the old “If you don’t like it, you can git out…” Reached for by people who have nothing intelligent to bring to the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMOcyCLZHBQ

Maybe the money has now gone to something more important… Something like the upgrade of an intersection where yet another life was lost over the weekend.
Worried about riding along Majura Rd? Don’t…

poetix said :

Can I just say that that illustration of the whinging cyclist (inexplicably without a helmet, though he has helmet hair) next to the truck is so lame that it’s amputated?

Thank you.

The illustration is a blown up view of the proposed section view of road. All I did was add the annotation!
http://www.majuraparkway.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/242328/Road_Typical_Cross_Sections.pdf

Can I just say that that illustration of the whinging cyclist (inexplicably without a helmet, though he has helmet hair) next to the truck is so lame that it’s amputated?

Thank you.

Maybe Katy should add “Katy on two wheels” to her “Katy on the buses” routine, and maybe get Tony Gill to take her for a ride down the road. She’d pretty quickly change the plans I’d reckon. It does seem a bit odd that the access to one of our premier MTB areas should be so poorly accessible by bike?

BicycleCanberra said :

HenryBG said :

Canberra ratepayers already pay far more per cyclist on cycling infrastructure than do the taxpayers of Denmark and Holland.

What Rubbish! In Holland they pay at least $39 per person on cycle infrastructure ,in the ACT it’s around $8 per person. Compare that Australia wide and that would be far less. Its about spending the transport dollars evenly and not just on roads, and improving safety for everyone.

I have no particular stake in this, but I thought I’d point out that you and Henry are talking abou two different things (dollars per cyclist vs. dollars per citizen).

Postalgeek said :

HenryBG said :

If you come up with a scheme to use labour drawn from imprisoned criminals to build you more paths, however, I would be supportive. Especially if there were whips involved.

I think some cyclists and Henry BG could find some common ground here, especially if it involved Canberra’s finest hit-and-runners.

Disappointing news from Gallagher.

I don’t believe we needed separated lanes everywhere (though it would be nice), but certainly for high speed corridors like the Monaro and Majura the traffic should be separated.

Once again I would suggest, if money is an issue, flexible road reflectors or raised reflectors would at least create a visual barrier and audible alert. Cars can still pass over them but are far less likely to casually stray.

http://www.reflectiveroad.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Leitboy_L30.jpg

http://www.autospec.co.za/thumb/browse/property/productmedia/pekay/images/adhesives/237-road-reflector3.jpg

The other approach should be to locate cycle lanes in the median strips when they are wide enough, to protect cyclists from traffic leaving and entering from side roads. This would be most effective on somewhere like Northbourne.

I think the second option would be better, the tall flap thingy’s can still do damage to a car, the other ones you could drive over & not hit the body.

Myles Peterson said :

“I presume you are trolling…”

Not in this instance. If you can fit a plate to a motorcycle, you can fit one to a bike.

Why should cyclists be the only road users who contribute no infrastructure funding and have no accountability?

The police lock-ups will be full of 8 year olds charge with riding unlicensed, unregistered and for failing to show ID when requested.

Myles Peterson said :

“I presume you are trolling…”

Not in this instance. If you can fit a plate to a motorcycle, you can fit one to a bike.

Why should cyclists be the only road users who contribute no infrastructure funding and have no accountability?

We do contribute, as everyone does, through tax, but don’t let that fact get in the way of a rant. If it means separated cycle paths, bring it on.

Though I always wonder if the people who call for plates diligently report all the far more dangerous 1.5 ton cars that fail to stop at stop signs, or shoot red lights, and when we will stop getting vague police reports asking us to keep an eye out for a white commodore because no-one ever seems to get the plate number.

HenryBG said :

If you come up with a scheme to use labour drawn from imprisoned criminals to build you more paths, however, I would be supportive. Especially if there were whips involved.

I think some cyclists and Henry BG could find some common ground here, especially if it involved Canberra’s finest hit-and-runners.

Disappointing news from Gallagher.

I don’t believe we needed separated lanes everywhere (though it would be nice), but certainly for high speed corridors like the Monaro and Majura the traffic should be separated.

Once again I would suggest, if money is an issue, flexible road reflectors or raised reflectors would at least create a visual barrier and audible alert. Cars can still pass over them but are far less likely to casually stray.

http://www.reflectiveroad.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Leitboy_L30.jpg

http://www.autospec.co.za/thumb/browse/property/productmedia/pekay/images/adhesives/237-road-reflector3.jpg

The other approach should be to locate cycle lanes in the median strips when they are wide enough, to protect cyclists from traffic leaving and entering from side roads. This would be most effective on somewhere like Northbourne.

Myles Peterson said :

“I presume you are trolling…”

Not in this instance. If you can fit a plate to a motorcycle, you can fit one to a bike.

Why should cyclists be the only road users who contribute no infrastructure funding and have no accountability?

When are people like you going to get it through your thick skulls that riders do contibute to infrastructure funding????

Its called C-O-N-S-O-L-I-D-A-T-E-D R-E-V-E-N-U-E & it comes in the form of all taxes.

By your reasoning I should get a discount every time I dont drive my car, like this morning.

Sorry, I just had to bite.

On topic, I agree that it would be a cheaper option to do it now as it probably will never get done & with Majura Road being a major arterial road to Gunners as well as a “city bypass” for heavy vehicles it should have one.

Its a bit like Dairy Flat, 10 years ago when they duplicated it they shpould have finished it at the Fyshwick end rather than have a blttlekneck each way.

Myles Peterson said :

“I presume you are trolling…”

Not in this instance. If you can fit a plate to a motorcycle, you can fit one to a bike.

Why should cyclists be the only road users who contribute no infrastructure funding and have no accountability?

..in before “the majority of cyclists own cars and pay registration / taxes”

BicycleCanberra said :

HenryBG said :

Canberra ratepayers already pay far more per cyclist on cycling infrastructure than do the taxpayers of Denmark and Holland.

What Rubbish! In Holland they pay at least $39 per person on cycle infrastructure ,in the ACT it’s around $8 per person. Compare that Australia wide and that would be far less. Its about spending the transport dollars evenly and not just on roads, and improving safety for everyone.

Ohh, beat me to it, I was going to ask Henry to provide stats 🙂

“I presume you are trolling…”

Not in this instance. If you can fit a plate to a motorcycle, you can fit one to a bike.

Why should cyclists be the only road users who contribute no infrastructure funding and have no accountability?

HenryBG said :

Canberra ratepayers already pay far more per cyclist on cycling infrastructure than do the taxpayers of Denmark and Holland.

What Rubbish! In Holland they pay at least $39 per person on cycle infrastructure ,in the ACT it’s around $8 per person. Compare that Australia wide and that would be far less. Its about spending the transport dollars evenly and not just on roads, and improving safety for everyone.

Myles Peterson said :

And number plates. It’s almost impossible to identify and report a cyclist for dangerous riding.

I presume you are trolling, but anyway – where (this is a serious question) would you put a number play on a bicycle?

Licence ACT cyclist and use the money to help fund infrastructure. It’ll weed out the reckless bad apples, create accountability and provide some badly needed road-rule training.

And number plates. It’s almost impossible to identify and report a cyclist for dangerous riding.

ooohhh waits for th monthly discussion/arguement of cars versus bikes.

It sooo much fun to reread the same arguement over and over again under different headings.

Disappointing.

Canberra ratepayers already pay far more per cyclist on cycling infrastructure than do the taxpayers of Denmark and Holland.

Canberra is not a compact city situated on flat land. The paths we do have already cover a huge extent and are very poorly utilised compared with paths in the places you mention. Canberrans already pay a lot of tax – rego fees for example are the highest in the country – and we do not deserve to be slugged with extra charges to pay for stuff few people want.

If you come up with a scheme to use labour drawn from imprisoned criminals to build you more paths, however, I would be supportive. Especially if there were whips involved.

Erg0 said :

If that cyclist is so concerned about his safety, he should probably put a helmet on.

A Helmet won’t protect you when you a run over by a truck or a car for that matter!

Need it build today? Why is it a need? If you don’t like it, move to Holland.

If that cyclist is so concerned about his safety, he should probably put a helmet on.