26 August 2011

Lin Hatfield Dodds wants to get into politics AND keep the V8?

| I-filed
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Interesting following Lin Hatfield Dodds on her determined trek to get into parliament by any means.

She appears to be nailing her colours to the Labor mast now.

She was interviewed on radio this morning, praising Labor and the 2020 Summit to the skies.

Not one mention of the party she was supposedly committed to from 2007 to immediately after losing last year!

Looks as though Ms Hatfield Dodds has realised the “running for the Greens but I’ll keep my V8 thanks” approach last time round has damaged her chances of election as a Green.

She appears to be repositioning herself cynically and strategically.

She sure must be determined – because praising the fiasco that was the 2020 Summit would be a very, very tough gig for anyone with a policy brain and a conscience.

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I-filed12:18 pm 27 Aug 11

Grail said :

Use the car for the days when the bike or bus are not an option (e.g.: you have to drop the kids to school because their bikes are broken and the bus drivers are on strike).

If it’s cool for any household with kids who can’t bike to school or to after-school extracurricular activities to drop them in a V8 4WD (and then of course, self-same vehicles would have been driven on to work and back), according to the Hatfield Dodd example it’s perfectly fine if MOST Canberrans get around in gas-guzzlers as their day-to-day vehicle. Far from “usually the bike, V8 on camping trips only” it would be the opposite: V8 most days, bicycles for a leisurely cycle round the lake every few weeks, or for trips to the local shops by bicycle “when we have time and it isn’t raining, or too hot, or the sun’s too harsh cuz you can’t wear a helmet and a sunhat at the same time, or we’re heading to Aldi for some specials and then the farmer’s market, rather than the local IGA.” By contrast, if Hatfield Dods wants to to go with Labor, there’s a massive “f*** the environment” contingent in the satellite suburbs that she can represent. But a perception of hypocrisy of Mal Colston proportions will follow her around.

Reply
Grail10:23 am 27 Aug 11

creative_canberran said :

OMG I can’t believe you.

http://nsw.greens.org.au/policies/transport

At the very top of the page on their own website: “Rail and buses, not cars”.
How much clearer do you want it?

And this: “The Greens oppose all new motorway proposals”.

This in addition to saying in interviews locally that not enough Canberrans are using public transport.

That’s not “in addition to” saying that Canberrans aren’t using enough public transport. The entire policy is that people should use more public transport, and freight should be moved by rail in preference to long haul trucks.

Look at it this way: you can have a car and still ride a bike or catch the bus to work. Use the car for the days when the bike or bus are not an option (e.g.: you have to drop the kids to school because their bikes are broken and the bus drivers are on strike). You can have your 4×4 for camping trips, but I’d argue a minivan would be better in terms of fuel consumption and pollution, and I’d encourage hiking on foot to places that you can’t reach with a 2WD passenger vehicle.

I don’t see the Greens policy as being a rabid, “OMG cars are evil” policy. They are simply stating that it is not sensible for so many people to be driving from the same suburb to the same destination in single-occupant cars.

Reply
creative_canberran11:40 pm 26 Aug 11

Sean said :

By which I mean her 4WD. Not sure what happened to the quote there.

Well if that’s the case, then her comment about not giving up her V8 remains a sign of incompetence.
If she doesn’t use it often, then why exclaim such an attachment to it at all?
And if there is a genuine reason, being the need to go off road occasionally, then why not make the sensible comment stating that.
If the best she could come up with was a Summernat’s style line, it still speaks negatively of her character and judgement.

Reply
LSWCHP9:33 pm 26 Aug 11

Who is Lin Hatfield-Dodds?

Reply
RedDogInCan7:01 pm 26 Aug 11

PantsMan said :

Jim Jones said :

PantsMan said :

Another “Let them eat cake” blunder from an extremist, Marxist party.

Do you even know what Marxism is?

Yes, it is a political philosophy and interpretation history of based on the works of Karl Marx.o with Marxism.

Going by the performance of most politicians, I always thought Marxism was based on the works of Chico, Harpo, Groucho, Gummo, and Zeppo!

Reply
JessP4:54 pm 26 Aug 11

Lin H-D is an uninspiring person at best. Very uninspiring if she changes teams this easily!!

Reply
Sean4:45 pm 26 Aug 11

Sean said :

You know she uses it like once every couple of months for going bush with her family, right?

By which I mean her 4WD. Not sure what happened to the quote there.

Reply
Mysteryman4:41 pm 26 Aug 11

PantsMan said :

Jim Jones said :

PantsMan said :

Another “Let them eat cake” blunder from an extremist, Marxist party.

Do you even know what Marxism is?

Yes, it is a political philosophy and interpretation history of based on the works of Karl Marx. It generally refers, however, to the later interpretation of Marx’ works by others.

Inter alia, Marxism applies the Hegelian dialectic to historical economic structures and concludes that capitalism is an inherently unstable form of political and economic organisation based on unsustainable imbalance in the distribution of the modes and means of production — generally known as capital — between the ‘bourgeoisie’ and the ‘proletariat’. Marx viewed profits as the illegitimately appropriated surplus from the exertion of labour, and capital as the accumulation of those profits. Capital, therefore, was the accumulation of exertion of labour; and should be viewed as belonging to the suppliers of that labour: the proletariat.

It has been used as a justification for political regimes where the ‘workers’ are intended to be paramount. Purportedly ‘Marxist’ regimes were particularly prevalent in the 20th century. One notable example is the Soviet Union. Generally, these regimes were oppressive and often used violence and torture against their own citizens. They often had a cadre of ‘political elites’ who enjoyed significantly higher standards of living to ordinary citizens.

Today, elements of Marxism can still be seen in political movements that demonize the factor (economic) returns to capital (corporations) as illegitimate, and where the elites seek to enjoy a better standard of living than others in the community only because of their political position.

Lin Hatfield-Dodds is a Marxist.

PS: ‘let them eat cake’ is a reference to Queen Marie Antoinette and has nothing directly to do with Marxism.

Haha. Pwnd!

Reply
Sean4:37 pm 26 Aug 11

You know she uses it like once every couple of months for going bush with her family, right?

Reply
PantsMan4:34 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

PantsMan said :

Another “Let them eat cake” blunder from an extremist, Marxist party.

Do you even know what Marxism is?

Yes, it is a political philosophy and interpretation history of based on the works of Karl Marx. It generally refers, however, to the later interpretation of Marx’ works by others.

Inter alia, Marxism applies the Hegelian dialectic to historical economic structures and concludes that capitalism is an inherently unstable form of political and economic organisation based on unsustainable imbalance in the distribution of the modes and means of production — generally known as capital — between the ‘bourgeoisie’ and the ‘proletariat’. Marx viewed profits as the illegitimately appropriated surplus from the exertion of labour, and capital as the accumulation of those profits. Capital, therefore, was the accumulation of exertion of labour; and should be viewed as belonging to the suppliers of that labour: the proletariat.

It has been used as a justification for political regimes where the ‘workers’ are intended to be paramount. Purportedly ‘Marxist’ regimes were particularly prevalent in the 20th century. One notable example is the Soviet Union. Generally, these regimes were oppressive and often used violence and torture against their own citizens. They often had a cadre of ‘political elites’ who enjoyed significantly higher standards of living to ordinary citizens.

Today, elements of Marxism can still be seen in political movements that demonize the factor (economic) returns to capital (corporations) as illegitimate, and where the elites seek to enjoy a better standard of living than others in the community only because of their political position.

Lin Hatfield-Dodds is a Marxist.

PS: ‘let them eat cake’ is a reference to Queen Marie Antoinette and has nothing directly to do with Marxism.

Reply
creative_canberran4:17 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

creative_canberran said :

Jim Jones said :

Fewer cars and a more extensive public transport system is hardly the same as the “don’t drive cars, cars are bad mmkay” stereotypes that are so often thrown about.

Given the population is growing and therefore the number of motorists and potential motorists too, there is no other way to have “fewer cars” unless some “don’t drive cars”.

Refusing to support any further investment in motorway development is prohibition by stealth.

Obviously the Greens are not advocating for a total prohibition. But their message is and has long been clear. Don’t drive, we need fewer cars on the road.

So you really do equate “fewer cars on the road” with “Greens candidates are hypocrites if they drive a car”?

If she were driving a vehicle that was more in line with her party’s policies in new fuel efficiency and new fuel innovation, would be more understanding.

Given it’s a V8… no deal.

Reply
Jim Jones3:41 pm 26 Aug 11

creative_canberran said :

Jim Jones said :

Fewer cars and a more extensive public transport system is hardly the same as the “don’t drive cars, cars are bad mmkay” stereotypes that are so often thrown about.

Given the population is growing and therefore the number of motorists and potential motorists too, there is no other way to have “fewer cars” unless some “don’t drive cars”.

Refusing to support any further investment in motorway development is prohibition by stealth.

Obviously the Greens are not advocating for a total prohibition. But their message is and has long been clear. Don’t drive, we need fewer cars on the road.

So you really do equate “fewer cars on the road” with “Greens candidates are hypocrites if they drive a car”?

Reply
creative_canberran3:20 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

Fewer cars and a more extensive public transport system is hardly the same as the “don’t drive cars, cars are bad mmkay” stereotypes that are so often thrown about.

Given the population is growing and therefore the number of motorists and potential motorists too, there is no other way to have “fewer cars” unless some “don’t drive cars”.

Refusing to support any further investment in motorway development is prohibition by stealth.

Obviously the Greens are not advocating for a total prohibition. But their message is and has long been clear. Don’t drive, we need fewer cars on the road.

Reply
Jim Jones3:10 pm 26 Aug 11

creative_canberran said :

Jim Jones said :

creative_canberran said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

Need I remind you these are the people who are constantly crying for over $1billion to be spent on light rail while constantly saying how bad we are for using cars.

It has nothing to do with Green stereotypes, it has to do with what they preach yet don’t practice themselves. Will she give up the 4WD once we’ve installed light rail? Will she give it up if the VFT on the Eastern Seaboard goes ahead?

Utter bollocks.

Show me a Greens statement where they say “Australians shouldn’t drive cars”.

OMG I can’t believe you.

http://nsw.greens.org.au/policies/transport

At the very top of the page on their own website: “Rail and buses, not cars”.
How much clearer do you want it?

And this: “The Greens oppose all new motorway proposals”.

This in addition to saying in interviews locally that not enough Canberrans are using public transport.

I’ve read that, it says clearly:

“The Greens are committed to affordable, efficient and safe public transport. We need fewer cars on the road and a more extensive public transport system, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, reduce congestion and provide fairer and more equitable access to mobility.”

Fewer cars and a more extensive public transport system is hardly the same as the “don’t drive cars, cars are bad mmkay” stereotypes that are so often thrown about.

I thought you were supposed to be an intelligent university student. Where’s your critical thinking gone?

Reply
creative_canberran3:04 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

creative_canberran said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

Need I remind you these are the people who are constantly crying for over $1billion to be spent on light rail while constantly saying how bad we are for using cars.

It has nothing to do with Green stereotypes, it has to do with what they preach yet don’t practice themselves. Will she give up the 4WD once we’ve installed light rail? Will she give it up if the VFT on the Eastern Seaboard goes ahead?

Utter bollocks.

Show me a Greens statement where they say “Australians shouldn’t drive cars”.

OMG I can’t believe you.

http://nsw.greens.org.au/policies/transport

At the very top of the page on their own website: “Rail and buses, not cars”.
How much clearer do you want it?

And this: “The Greens oppose all new motorway proposals”.

This in addition to saying in interviews locally that not enough Canberrans are using public transport.

Reply
Bluey2:19 pm 26 Aug 11

Didnt win as a Green now switching to Labor?

Way to stick to your values hey.

Reply
Jim Jones2:09 pm 26 Aug 11

PantsMan said :

Another “Let them eat cake” blunder from an extremist, Marxist party.

Do you even know what Marxism is?

Reply
chewy141:42 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

Way to utterly miss the point.

Oh no, I got your point.

I just think that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Reply
PantsMan1:30 pm 26 Aug 11

Another “Let them eat cake” blunder from an extremist, Marxist party.

Reply
KB19711:07 pm 26 Aug 11

Solidarity said :

Isn’t it better (environmentally) if she keeps her current car rather than buying a new one anyway?

Unless she trades it for a used car, but what are the chances of that….

There a few therories about this. I was read a document once that mentioned that the carbon produced by burning fossil fuels produced a fraction of the carbon dioxide output than the manufacture of the vehicle itself. it covered all aspects from the mining of the steel to the final product. The document suggested that people who owned older cars were more environmentally friendly when it came to Co2 emissions (it didn’t talk about NoX, benzines, sulfur, lead when it was in fuel & all the other nasty things that come from the exhaust).

There was another from the US that compared the environmental impact over the lifetime of a Dodge Ram pickup & a Toyota Prius & the Dodge won.

When it all comes down to it, all motor vehicles have a negative environmental impact & that is a fact of life.

Reply
housebound1:07 pm 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

creative_canberran said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

Need I remind you these are the people who are constantly crying for over $1billion to be spent on light rail while constantly saying how bad we are for using cars.

It has nothing to do with Green stereotypes, it has to do with what they preach yet don’t practice themselves. Will she give up the 4WD once we’ve installed light rail? Will she give it up if the VFT on the Eastern Seaboard goes ahead?

Utter bollocks.

Show me a Greens statement where they say “Australians shouldn’t drive cars”. The Greens are obviously in favour of trying to change transport patterns to be more environmentally friendly. To equate this with ‘herf derf cars are bad herf derf’ is so simplistic that you’d think that no one would have to point out the difference – you’d just assume that anyone with a barely functioning brain could figure it out for themselves. Sadly, this is obviously not the case.

As has been pointed out, the Greens get lampooned for failing to live up to crude caricatures of their policies: “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views.”

You’re both wrong. The Greens’ policies are clearly anti-car – you can’t reduce the number of cars on the road, the number of parking space in Molonglo (and so on) without affecting car ownership. But as JJ said, it is carefully worded and packaged as transport options.

But more philosphically, should a wanne-be Greens politcian drive a 4WD? That all depends on whether you think leaders should lead by better-than-example, or whether their private lifestyle choices and other personal decisions are irrelevant.

Reply
Jim Jones12:53 pm 26 Aug 11

creative_canberran said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

Need I remind you these are the people who are constantly crying for over $1billion to be spent on light rail while constantly saying how bad we are for using cars.

It has nothing to do with Green stereotypes, it has to do with what they preach yet don’t practice themselves. Will she give up the 4WD once we’ve installed light rail? Will she give it up if the VFT on the Eastern Seaboard goes ahead?

Utter bollocks.

Show me a Greens statement where they say “Australians shouldn’t drive cars”. The Greens are obviously in favour of trying to change transport patterns to be more environmentally friendly. To equate this with ‘herf derf cars are bad herf derf’ is so simplistic that you’d think that no one would have to point out the difference – you’d just assume that anyone with a barely functioning brain could figure it out for themselves. Sadly, this is obviously not the case.

As has been pointed out, the Greens get lampooned for failing to live up to crude caricatures of their policies: “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views.”

Reply
Jim Jones12:47 pm 26 Aug 11

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

So being a hypocrite is a good thing now?

Way to utterly miss the point.

Reply
Solidarity12:41 pm 26 Aug 11

Isn’t it better (environmentally) if she keeps her current car rather than buying a new one anyway?

Unless she trades it for a used car, but what are the chances of that….

Reply
pajs12:21 pm 26 Aug 11

The National Disability Insurance scheme comes out of the 2020 summit, and a lot of work since then. Would have been good to see more such things come out, but this is still good, I think.

Reply
creative_canberran12:15 pm 26 Aug 11

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

Need I remind you these are the people who are constantly crying for over $1billion to be spent on light rail while constantly saying how bad we are for using cars.

It has nothing to do with Green stereotypes, it has to do with what they preach yet don’t practice themselves. Will she give up the 4WD once we’ve installed light rail? Will she give it up if the VFT on the Eastern Seaboard goes ahead?

Reply
Jim Jones12:12 pm 26 Aug 11

I-filed said :

Jim Jones said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

What are those 2020 Summit outcomes then?

I don’t know – perhaps you could enlighten me?

I’m not a supporter of Ms Hatfield Dodds – but that has nothing to do with the fact that the ‘herf derf but she drives a 4WD herf derf’ line is stupid.

Reply
bryansworld12:04 pm 26 Aug 11

I-filed said :

Jim Jones said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

What are those 2020 Summit outcomes then?

+1

And driving a unnecesarily large Urban Assault Truck without the rural/recreational need does indicate *at least* an indifference to other road users and the environment. Not what I want in a progressive politician.

Reply
bryansworld11:59 am 26 Aug 11

I-filed said :

Jim Jones said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

What are those 2020 Summit outcomes then?

+1

And driving a unnecesarily large Urban Assault Vehicle without the rural/recreational need does indicate a potential f*** you and f*** the environment attitude…or at least indifference. Is this what we want in a political leader?

Reply
chewy1411:58 am 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

So being a hypocrite is a good thing now?

Reply
housebound11:54 am 26 Aug 11

We thought she always was Labor, until the election.

Reply
I-filed11:53 am 26 Aug 11

Jim Jones said :

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

What are those 2020 Summit outcomes then?

Reply
Jim Jones11:35 am 26 Aug 11

Sean said :

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

+1

Surprised that the usual suspects haven’t turned up here to play this card.

Gotcha politics based on ignorance rather than intelligent policy discussion.

Reply
Sean11:16 am 26 Aug 11

Yeah, the nonsense about OMG SHE HAS A 4WD is a really really silly attempt at a smear. “Look, they don’t live up to our stereotypical strawmanning of their views, what a hypocrite!”

Reply
nice_enough11:14 am 26 Aug 11

As a lax Green member I was very disappointed in Lin. She seems to over simplify issues and has no real breadth in understanding about anything except welfare issues. Following her on Facebook its pretty obvious she is a rich preacher type playing the poor victim card.

Reply
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