17 May 2007

Locations of New Fixed Speed Cameras

| Deano
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The locations of the new fixed speed cameras are rumoured to be:

— Federal highway, southbound, approaching Antill St roundabout.
— Federal Highway, northbound, approaching Antill St roundabout.
— Tuggeranong Parkway, both directions, near Cotter Road overpass.
— Tuggeranong Parkway, both directions, near Hindmarsh drive overpass.
— Barton Highway, both directions, between Curran Drive and Gold Creek Road.
— Barton Highway, both directions, between Gungahlin Drive and Ellenborough Street.
— Monaro Highway, both directions, near Hindmarsh drive overpass.
— Monaro Highway, northbound, between Lanyon Drive and Sheppard Street.
— Monaro Highway, southbound, between Mugga Lane and Isabella Drive.

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i agree.

the best way to rid oneself of a bad law is to follow it to the letter.

VYBerlinaV8 now_with_added grunt2:35 pm 21 May 07

The best option would be for every person who gets a speeding fine to elect to have the matter heard in court. A few hundred thousand court appointments might change some minds about the effectiveness of these things!

apparently the good people of victortia owe a billion dollars in unpaid fines.

it was 20 mil a few years ago.

thsi has been attributed to the rise in speed cameras and associated fines.

some commentators are calling the unpaid fines an act of civic rebellion.

Jemmy – is that actually true ?? that a speed camera cant be fixed within 200m of a speed change ? I think alot of speed camera’s out there are actually within that distance.. does that mean we have just found another loop hole to get out of fines ?

Apples with apples VY – was clearly comparing it with cars of the same era.
And the type of road obviously makes a difference.
And maybe the driver… 🙂

VYBerlinaV8 now_with_added grunt9:02 am 21 May 07

Hey El, the difference between a Falc turbo and Holden V8 is small in terms of performance, and depends more on the driver and the day than anything else. I really like the Falc turbo, but wouldn’t buy one because of it’s reliability issues (as you mentioned).

or johnboy on a red bicycle (they do go faster…)

or, of course, many if not most motor cycles, whose engine capacity is usually under a litre, but they move! bikes are vehicles, too, and many neither high priced nor exotica. i know you know that, but not including it here reinforces them ‘not’ being vehicles and so ‘not’ being seen on the road…

Except maybe a Falcon Turbo 6 VY (provided the clutch/gearbox holds together for long enough…)

VYBerlinaV8 now_with_added grunt3:39 pm 20 May 07

“VY I have a 1.5 litre normally aspirated Paseo that can compete with most V8s due to the very attractive power-to-weight ratio.”

Any credibility you had just went straight out the window, mate. Modern V8’s will be beaten by VERY few vehicles of smaller engine capacity, excepting ultra high priced exotica.

In slightly related news, I just heard that in a 4 day period *2000* people were pinged by fixed and signposted speed cameras in the new Lane Cove tunnel in Sydney. Goes to show people just *don’t* pay attention and the Government will get their expected windfall.

Accident rate/severity likely won’t change.

Yeah its about 1850 mph from memory just a tad faster then current technology allows cars to travel at.

Unfortunately our speed cameras only take one photo (UK ones take two and use markings on the road to prove your speed). Research from the even more esteemed Mythbusters showed that it didn’t matter how fast you went, you couldn’t avoid being photographed.

Research by that esteemed BBC program (Top Gear) showed that a speed camera can be beaten if one travels fast enough to be out of the frame before the second sbaphot is taken. From memory, the speed required was a bit over 170 mph (not km/h).

There is research from the UK (which I can’t put my finger on at the moment) that shows that speed cameras actually make traffic worse because they encourage all drivers to travel at the same speed which results in traffic bunching up. Without speed cameras, speeds are spread around the legal limit and results in the traffic being better distributed along the road.

Al, yes there is something special about the flesh on your cheeks bunching around your ears, and exceeding every speed limit in the country with rpm left and 4 gears to go!

umm, but if you only ever drive at a speed below the limit*, what is the problem?

what’s the rush?

(i know everyone will laugh at me and think me woosy, all that… but really, if everyone drove smoothly and calmly, no-one would get uptight at the ‘slow’ car in front of them and everyone wins. isn’t it a no-brainer?)

* unless you get a lend of a ducati and get on a low-traffic twisty road…

Yeah – had a ZZR bigred – wasn’t riding – more like matter transfer. But got wiped out from behind someone with eyes wide shut.

When able to straddle a bike again, got a thumping big shiny noisy cruiser that said “keep the F*** away from me” – life got a whole lot simpler…

Exactly Al, anyone who had seriously tried one of those little gems knows exactly what is possible. And if you want to experience really serious performance try one of 1,000 cc sport bikes.

It doesn’t make sense to have cameras on the approaches to the Federal Hwy/Antill St roundabout because you’re already slowing down.* On the southbound side, the speed limit changes 100 to 80 then it’s the roundabout, and you’re not supposed to have cameras within 200m of a speed change, so that one would definitely be a weird location.

I wonder if they’ll be on the departure side where people speed up. Would make more sense to me.

* putting a camera before a location where you *have* to slow down to physically proceed? How can anyone justify it on safety grounds? Must be revenue.

Given that my boy-racer-with-no-family-obligations days are over, I’ve not driven a modern V8 to be sure. But up against a same-era V8 and on a switch-back infested road, the humble little Paseo took account of many a competitor with a bigger set of numbers.
Likewise I’m sure some of the little hot hatches (with or without hairdrier) around now would match up well against modern V8s of their same era.
My point was that VY’s point that you *need* a V8 to pull off a quick squirt in the other lane on a country road doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Now if we’re talking about towing stuff, there’s a different story, but we weren’t.
PS: I have owned 2 stripped back and completely rebuilt V8s. I miss the sound, but not the fuel bills.

Al – you might think that, but go and drive a modern V8 and you will see how utterly, completely wrong you are.

Just for the record, assuming you have the most recent model Paseo, your power to weight ratio is 69kW to 921kg, which is 74.9kW/tonne. A Commodore V8 is 270kW to 1770kg these days, which would give you 152kW/tonne. See?

I don’t really mind, by the way, if the Govt does want to put up more speed cameras, but let’s make sure that the speed limit is realistic in the first place, *and* that going 10km/h over it actually causes a road safety issue. I hope there will be a reasonable level of tolerance in these cameras.

If you’re going 20 over, fine, you’ve crossed the line between “I went too fast because I wasn’t paying full attention to my speedo” and “I wilfully exceeded the speed limit” and you shouldn’t complain about the fine.

The Minister claimed that “the statistics were available on the website” on 666 tuesday morning. Guess what? There are none. His office is unable to explain exactly how the committee comes up with these locations – and what, if any stats are used.

I think we should be able to see their reasoning for the selection of these sites – and in 2 years see the corresponding reduction in major crashes at these sites….

Or am I dreaming?

and Al, yes a further example there of one rule for plods, one for the rest of us. Just saw a uniformed cop parked in a no stopping zone while dropping their kidlet at school. Yes, I pulled up behind him to drop mine. haha!

Al, you are dreaming if you think a Paseo is in the same league as the modern stuff. Before you get annoyed though, I thought the same way until I upgraded recently and realised the improvements that had been made. Mind you, I cannot see why anyone needs a 6 litre V8 when the highest speed limit is 110km/h.

VY I have a 1.5 litre normally aspirated Paseo that can compete with most V8s due to the very attractive power-to-weight ratio.
And it handles like a go cart rather than a waterbed.
It’s not the size of the donk that counts…

VYBerlinaV8 now_with_added grunt9:29 am 18 May 07

Aeek makes a good point. I do a bit of traveling on NSW country roads, and being able to overtake quickly is one of the biggest issues. Hence, a V8.

Driving down Gungahlin Drive between Palmerston and Mitchell at 9.20 last night and stuck on 80. Passed by police car doing at least 100. No lights or sirens. Just cops breaking the law. Because they can – apparently…
Great example.
Toyed with signalling them over to the side of the road and handing out a lecture!
Interested to hear what our AFP readers think of this?

bigred: Cool – I’ve got no problem with the idea of speed limiters per se, and your example is a perfect one of when having one would be handy – my point was that government mandated ones would serve no purpose in terms of law enforcement. If you’d find one helpful, as you obviously do (and I probably would), great! Get one installed. But it won’t remove the need for cops actually checking peoples speed as they drive.

How is it safer spending minutes overtaking a semi,
when a few seconds over will have you clear?

Spectra, my chariot has a speed limiter. I leave it off mostly and preset at 40 km/h. Very handy to be able to hit a switch in school zones.

Genie, we will pay for it one way or another. Why not just charge the users?

GnT is right. If you miss the huge ‘Red Light and Speed Camera ahead’ signs and the fact that you can see the cameras a mile away – then maybe you should get fined so then you would pay attention to your surroundings whilst driving.

Not to mention the big-ass ‘Im trying to blend in’ white vans. I’ve never been caught speeding, and although it sucks that you have to pay a fine, maybe some people need to pay fines to realise that they broke the law.

I drive past the speed camera outside of Jerra every day and I have yet to get caught. How? Simple – I slow down for the 5 metres the camera is monitoring and then go on my merry way at whatever speed I feel like. They are very effective at reducing speeding, if only over a very small bit of road.

At the risk of being unpopular…

Speeding fines are a tax on stupidity. I’m quite happy for the government to continue revenue raising in this way. If you are dumb enough to be caught by a speed camera, you can help subsidise my taxes.

I was caught by a fixed speed camera once. And boy, did I feel stupid!

Big red – yes the parkway needs fixing up.. but god forbid it will ever become a toll road. Does such a tiny town really need to pay to use our roads. Were not like Sydney and have an alternate routes along side a toll road.

Never mind checking they haven’t been disabled.

fnaah: You’re welcome 🙂
I fail to see how speed limiters would work though – you’d either have to install masses of roadside devices to set them appropriately for each zone (huge cost), or fix them at the highest limit in the country (which is in fact still unlimited in parts of the NT, and 130km/h in others). Either that or have them manually settable/overridable by the driver, in which case what’s the point? That’s effectively what the throttle does anyway.
There’s also an argument to be made that it may occasionally avoid an accident to be able to accelerate over the speed limit out of trouble (though not nearly as often as a lot of people might think/hope).

Ask at the GovCo shopfront about your points situation. You _may_ need to pay $25 or so to get a Driver’s Licence History printout.

wish they would fix the parkway up so that it meets freeway standards and increase the speed limit. They could then turn it into a toll road to pay for it all. They could top the funding up with p2p cameras as well.

Thanks for the link, Spectra. Was interested to note that failing to keep left is worth two demerit points – although that hardly seems to matter now that 120k down the parkway will soon be a thing of the past.

If the government were serious about stopping people speeding, they’d mandate speed limiters in cars. Why do they insist on trying to convince us that fixed cameras are about slowing us down?

NSW system has got it right – automatic suspension of licence for more than 30km/h over. plus the fine to go with it. Doesn’t stop people from driving without a licence though.

Funny thing is; drive without a licence 5 times in the ACT and you get jail time; Get caught for burglary 5 times and get nothing. Kill someone and get 18 months.

Mind you if you get tickets and don’t pay them then all they do is cancel your licence and rego – which in turn gets you more tickets.

Gungahlin/Gundaroo Dr is a red light/speed camera – the list above is the new speed-only cameras (all on straight sections, not intersections).

Also, demerit points hang around for 3 years, not 2 (see here).

Jazz: accumulated points expire after 2 years, if that helps clear it up.

Also, I thought the corner of Gungahlin and Gundaroo Drives was also a camera site? Confirmed on ABC: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1922872.htm

A big issue with speeding in Canberra is that there is a paucity of actual speed signs!
And often they are placed right near an intersection, where you are busy with turning, merging, etc and miss it.

And on many roads in ACT, to go with the ‘environmental speed’ (what feels appropriate) is hazardous, as the other thread about 100 being fine on the 80kph Gungahlin Drive (4-lane stage) covered.

Apart from putting some more damn signs up Minister Hargreaves, I believe a solution would be a system of colours for the edge lines (or even just the cats eyes) designating the speed all the way along each road.

Most speeds could be covered with just 4 colours – say red 40/school zone, yellow 60, purple 80, green 100 (blue’s already gone to hydrants). In between speeds could be designated by alternating colours. White means revert to the signs only.
We’d all get used to them pretty quickly, and never have to guess.
Colour blind? Signs are still there.

jazz – it’s not a matter of how many you have LEFT, but how many you have accummulated. You don’t have 12 points and lose them, you have 0 points and gain them..

You shoujld be able to contact Roads ACT though and they can tell you i think

I suppose it would be too much to ask that the legal limit be increased on motorway-like roads such as the Parkway? Most European (and even some US) motorways/freeways have limits ranging between 110-130km/h. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit)

I have no idea how many points i have left. Does anyone know how you can find out?

I wouldn’t be complaining with the number of points you have left Jazz

Very true roccon, or just double the existing demerit component.

if it really wasnt a revenue raising exercise.. let me suspend disbelief for a moment

ahhh known ‘blackspots’.

the number of fatal crashes caused by speeding (what these cameras can detect) in these specific areas is what ?

ever get the feeling youre being swindled ? (j. lydon @1977)

CT’s article on it is here. I particularly liked the hypocracy of Vicki Dunnes outrage over hiding the camera’s away on roads that dont really have road safety issues. Sure as shit the boot would be on the other foot if the Libs were in govt.

any government serious on stopping speeding would drop the money component of the speeding ticket and instead ban you for driving for a month if caught 10km/h over the limit, 3 months for 35km/h over the limit and 12 months for 45km/h over the limit. simple really.

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