More money for the gifted?

johnboy said :

IMHO the reason why so many gifted children don’t move on in the world is poor emotional intelligence rather than educational opportunities.

But we live and learn.

Totaly agree JB. As I said in another post recently, maturity has a lot to do with learning. I too was told throughout my early schooling that I was gifted. However, my actual interest in formal school was ‘nil’. I was more interested in the social side of school rather than learning. I left before the end of yr 12 with grades that wouldn’t have allowed me to enter any Uni in the known universe. Now, with 40 yrs of growing-up under my belt I hold grad and post grad quals, have lectured at Uni and have been offered opportunity to complete a PhD. Schooling is, indeed, wasted on the young!

The main problem school had/have, I think, is in handling the bright students to keep them interested in learning, not simply ‘throwing out the baby with the bath water’ because its easier. For example, I was in the top math and computing classes in my school but was put back into the remedial math class and kicked out of computing totally simply as I was bored, and therefore, disruptive. Personally I think I showed great promise by being able to hack into fellow students programs to see their best ideas and code and using this to write my own ‘best of breed’ program! I certainly think other options could have been found for punishment(I admit, plagiarism = badness) rather than tossing me out of the computer class for good.

I don’t know that JB’s “maybe gifted students just need to learn how to operate a push-up bra” theory is something that really holds … yes, I have manboobs, but I’m not entirely sure that an ability to bimbo it along would really have helped me that much (as an 18 year old gay man, um, using that kinda thing on older guys woulda creeped me the hell out, frankly)

Nyssa, good on you for being able to take the initiative during your school years. How depressing you were made to repeat. I recall in my (ACT) primary, the (male) Dux of the school was made to repeat 6th class, simply due to his age (he was short, and ‘young’ for his class I think). I remember thinking how sad that was for this boy. It was 1973. Occasionally I still wonder how he progressed after that.

Glad you are able to extend the ones you teach. Seems some don’t like to hear about G&T as they view these kids as already advantaged or as having pushy parents (while there may be some, that’s why identification is so important). I’m sure extension is not easy, as kids don’t just want an extra load of ‘more of the same’ school work as they soon twig and go on a ‘go slow’! They need something that interests and challenges them. So I take my hat off to teachers like you.

If we are to be a clever country, it is such a shame to waste all that potential and only allow those that fit the prescribed model to excel.

miz, I certainly agree with you there.

When I moved from NSW to ACT, I was a year and a half agewise ‘below’ my peers. I had a gift for literacy and maths. However, due to the archaic ‘you’ll be too young for high school’ bollocks, I was repeated (Yr 5).

I was given the same work for the following year. I just walked up to my teacher with my books from the year before and said ‘I’ve done this’. I got into a lot of trouble but thankfully my cousin was living with us at the time and she was in Yr 9. I did her school work to keep me going.

I received no extension whatsoever. My curriculum wasn’t adapted and I would have floundered if I hadn’t taken the initiative myself at age 10.

My own experience helps me in my teaching and I do extend my students that require it.

It is a shame that G&T is only recoginised now, but in ‘difficult schools’ G&T students are languishing as there are ‘other things’ to also deal with in a classroom and I know that is why at least 6 students have left for more ‘academic’ surroundings where they won’t be assaulted (yes you read that right) for wanting to learn.

I was a gifted child, musically (two instruments and voice, and academically (particularly literacy/reading age – could read before school and was reading at HS level in 2nd class) and certainly found the standard ed system rigid and boring. Spent a lot of my time trying to fit in and checking where others were at to make sure I didn’t stand out by excelling too obviously.

My mother also tells stories about how much time she spent in a NSW selective school knitting under the desk (they had spaces under the desks in those days) as she was so bored. My dad read every single book in his under-privileged school’s library.

I think after a certain point I forgot how to ‘learn’ as everything came easy for quite a number of years and I didn’t have to do any study. But there came a point when I hit a wall and went, oh crap, I can’t just DO this, and I had an internally panicky, freaked out time (college years) for a bit. I did not cope with the transition to college well either.

I certainly feel a lot of my abilities have been wasted, as I just drifted along through school, doing well and trying to keep under the radar (until the freak out time). As I was good at a number of things, I had no concrete vocational aim either (music diva doesn’t count), which proved a problem in Secondary College. What college, what subjects to choose? I was good at lots of stuff but was fussy as hell about what I liked to do.

If a program like this caters for these children’s special needs, particularly identification of G&T kids, I say ‘about time’. However, I will be extremely annoyed if they just do things like make one school in the whole of the ACT the premier school for certain subjects (eg Lyneham – Southside kids can’t get there) instead of ensuring all schools get (eg musical) opportunities. This has been the daft pattern in the ACT so far, with schools and colleges having to compete and come up with a specialty that gives them a ‘brand’.

Sorry it’s a bit of a rave.

Julius Constantius said :

I think we should kill all the “gifted” children and then divide their brain juices up evenly. Intellectual equality for all and sweet, sweet brain juice!

A post like that will get you sent to the offal post….

I think we should kill all the “gifted” children and then divide their brain juices up evenly. Intellectual equality for all and sweet, sweet brain juice!

Ok, I agree socialisation is a major issue with “gifted” children, that’s assuming that having the “gift” also means they are lacking in a similar measure in some other ability. The obvious ones are those with Aspergers or similar who are physically unable to interpret the social signs and need coaching.

However, proper socialisation is a major issue with all children, not just gifted ones. A lot of bullying and other obnoxious behaviour can be traced back to poor social skills. This is one area that needs to be addressed in school that would help ALL children.

Although the idea of teaching gifted kids to be attractive female bimbos has a bizarre twist!

peterh said :

no money for the average student, all spent on the gifted kids.

gifted children need nurturing, true. But don’t disadvantage the other students just because they aren’t as bright….

no money for the average student, all spent on the remedial kids.

remedial children need nurturing, true. But don’t disadvantage the other students just because they can actually read…

Bizarrely enough, the same teaching approach doesn’t work for all students. Amongst other aspects of this is the identification and selective treatment of students at both ends of the spectrum. It’s just unfortunate that most spending priorities are bottom heavy for reasons I have no doubt contributors to the riotact will inform us of (again) next time a story comes up regarding Quambie or similar.

smee said :

What do you mean by “hot-housing” JB?

Programs which further isolate the kids from the society which, one day, they’re going to have to figure out how to fit in with.

Some of the smartest people I’ve ever met were also very attractive women who would play the bimbo to get along before going back to their Phd’s and that’s the sort of skills the gifted young need to be learning as early as possible for mine.

What do you mean by “hot-housing” JB?

According to some (but not all) testing I was a gifted child.

I can say that the thing I needed was less hot-housing not more.

IMHO the reason why so many gifted children don’t move on in the world is poor emotional intelligence rather than educational opportunities.

Looking back leaving school at 16 and having to hold down jobs in the real world would probably have been much better for me than tertiary tracking and hanging out with fellow nerds.

But we live and learn.

Dante said :

Don’t they keep finding “extra” money coming out of all these various orific.. sorry, offices? Eh, I’d prefer that they didn’t sit on it and invested it back into the community.

or where will it come from when they find the budget surplus is used up? maybe the new policies will cannibalize the old policies.

Don’t they keep finding “extra” money coming out of all these various orific.. sorry, offices? Eh, I’d prefer that they didn’t sit on it and invested it back into the community.

Kitchen Man said :

In past decades so many of our gifted and talented students have failed to reach their potential because they simply stagnated in a school system that didn’t cater to their strengths. Many didn’t fullfill their potential because the education was too rigid for them. In recent years that’s changed and I’m happy to see the Education Minister moving further in this direction. The G. and T. kids are the ones most likely to change the world….let’s help them to do it.

but is this just a ploy to swing votes at election time? why wasn’t this idea released after the budget?

As a student that was recognised as being gifted and talented at age 6 (comprehension age and reading age of a 13yr old, maths of 9yr old), I feel that this could only be a good thing.

The entirety of my special treatment involved being skipped ahead two years, doing higher level work than the rest of my class, and becoming a social outcast and easy target. My mother (who was incidentally a teacher) then became interested in setting up G&T programs in the ACT, because they just didn’t exist in the early 90’s… at least they didn’t seem to from my perspective.

Funny about the public service drone comment, that’s where I’ve ended up now. I sure as shit didn’t expect this when I was younger.

I think this is a good idea.

Too many ‘gifted’ kids get drowned out from the general rabble.
They all get processed in to Public Servant Drones these days… 🙂

My personal experience (so YMMV) with gifted kids is that they often get bored and become disruptive. I know of at least two I went through High School with who ended up the way people often expect ‘deadbeats’ to end up.

I have no idea if this kind of program would have helped them, but it was pretty obvious that the normal school system *mumble* years ago wasn’t doing the job.

In past decades so many of our gifted and talented students have failed to reach their potential because they simply stagnated in a school system that didn’t cater to their strengths. Many didn’t fullfill their potential because the education was too rigid for them. In recent years that’s changed and I’m happy to see the Education Minister moving further in this direction. The G. and T. kids are the ones most likely to change the world….let’s help them to do it.

If they are so “gifted” then they should know how to earn money. They should sell expired food to the elderly or something, I don’t know what kids do for money these days.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing – gifted kids sometimes come with other problems such as aspbergers. Extra money for all “gifted” kids may help those with problems achieve their full potential.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

How does spending more on gifted kids disadvantage anybody? It’s not like they took money away from the other kids – it’s extra money.

where is this “extra” money coming from?

I love it when the govt announces plans like this at election time.

wonder if they will follow through?

maybe the advisers will decide that it is another dragway….

How does spending more on gifted kids disadvantage anybody? It’s not like they took money away from the other kids – it’s extra money.

$1M is pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, Peterh. I’d hazard a guess that a lot more than that gets spent on remedial classes etc.

Spending that money on a few gifted kiddies could make a great difference. Diluting that $1M amongst the thousands of average kiddies won’t make much difference at all.

oh, great.

more ways to ensure gifted kids are singled out in the school.

Wait for the news articles,

increase of gifted kids being bullied

or

no money for the average student, all spent on the gifted kids.

gifted children need nurturing, true. But don’t disadvantage the other students just because they aren’t as bright….