Outdoor pokies luring hopeless addicts to Quangers?

I was shocked and dismayed to read the annual report for the Belconnen Soccer Club. Oh my, they pay so little tax after all the deductions/promotions etc. I was shocked at how much they take off people and do whatever they like in-house with it, then it is a tiny trickle of what’s left as actual income to tax or for charities.

Made me a little green around the gills, reading it.

Here you go shadow boxer:

http://www.gamblingandracing.act.gov.au/Documents/CommunityContributions0405.pdf

Section 67, community infrastructure.

…

Example of eligible contributions

expenses to design, build or upgrade sporting ovals, grandstands, oval lighting, museums, art galleries, playgrounds, public car parks, parklands or gymnasiums

It also notes this list is not exhaustive. We’ve noted its use to pay for club fittings like plasma screens before, but i’ve spent enough time making up for YOUR ignorance looking this far.

yeh a tricky one,

I dont really know the tax system well enough to comment but i’m not sure putting more pokie money into consolidated revenue is a good result for anyone (even the anti-pokie campaigners).

…ACT club industry that 80% of adult Canberrans currently enjoy…

And you seem to be misreading statistics and engaging in composition fallacy…

A – 80% of Canberra’s population are reported to be members of one or more Clubs.
B – Gaming machines are within clubs\hotels.
C – Not every Club\hotel has gaming machines.
D – All Clubs\hotels provide services other than gambling, or they are either not Clubs under ACT Law, or failing at hotelkeeping.

To gamble on a gaming machine, the player must be inside a club\hotel with machines.
Further, not every person or member present at a club\hotel plays on gaming machines.
Further, not every person who gambles enjoys it.

What I’d prefer is another tax bracket, actually.
The large end of town would be the only one affected, due their near abusively large relative income to occupied tax bracket.
Or remodel the taxation and contributions system entirely, currently its screwed.

Giving a tax breaks at the level they ask is roughly equivalent to redefining the tax bracket down one notch, shifting 98.88% of the industry revenue into the bracket currently occupied by only 1% of the industry.
(Taxing at 18% instead of 21%, which is already the most favourable highest tax margin in the country)

However that would mean we were even more dependant on gaming revenue to balance the bottom line.

Ainslie Football and Social Club doesn’t own the golf course, it’s leased for 10 or 15 years, without Ainslie support it would be houses by now. The community organisations that have been supported in the cases you mention are the Ainslie Football Club and the Gungahlin Lakes Golf Club. Both legitimate non-profit community organisations that run at a loss and would fold without the support. They also pay for kids to have lessons at the course and for the Golf pro to visit local schools teaching golf. What’s the problem ?

I’ll ask for a third time, what are you proposing. Are you saying clubs should return more to the community or are you saying pokies should be banned because some people can’t control themselves and the best way of helping them is to shut down the ACT club industry that 80% of adult Canberrans currently enjoy ?.

They are very different issues and are somewhat mutually exclusive. I would be happy to have a friendly debate with you over it but which one are we talking about ?

I’ll ignore the plasma tv screens one unless it can be sourced.

Also the plasma screens at the Dickson Tradies were a community contribution.

point me to a machavalian community contribution that is actually a “capital improvement at their club”

The increase in contributions to Community Infrastructure is attributable to one club group investing significant amounts to upgrade its football ground and Golf Course facilities.
Source: Community Contributions made by Gaming Machine Licensees 1 July 2009 to 30 June 2010, available here.

The Ainslie Football Club Group did that, for reference.

…rather they played the pokies though because the money goes back into the community
Only 3.8% of it is required to go back to the community as contribution. The threat of the sector dropping back to only minimum requirements and blaming the Govt is a major factor in keeping politicians on side.
(There is a strongly negative correllation between size and contribution-over-minimum, once you remove sporting clubs maintaining their base)

Again, whats your point apart from the fact you dont like pokies ?, what do you want to happen ?

I dont like horse racing but couldn’t care less if people want to do it, i’d rather they played the pokies though because the money goes back into the community rather than an Alice springs betting company or the UK’s Betfair. At least 80% of adult Canberrans presumably agree with me.

btw none of the articles back up JB’s claim, point me to a machavalian community contribution that is actually a “capital improvement at their club”

http://the-riotact.com/this-story-is-okay-to-go-under-whatever-title-is-appropriate-once-john-embeds-or-links-to-previously-emailed-photos-as-required/13422

Hehehe. There’s another WordPress bug for you, Jb.
Anyone want to guess what the temporary submission titled was before we agreed on the current one?

PS: http://the-riotact.com/?p=13422 also works…

Shadow Boxer said:

“You’ll need a source for your claim John boy, I have never seen that”

http://the-riotact.com/this-story-is-okay-to-go-under-whatever-title-is-appropriate-once-john-embeds-or-links-to-previously-emailed-photos-as-required/13422

I have seen sooooo many people spend many hours and many dollars on those horrible machines. They are fixed to return only 85% of what gets put in them so those who sit there for hours putting in hundreds of dollars are NEVER going to come out on top.

It’s usually the little old bingo bat who puts in her $5 a week who ends up reaping the rewards of those who just shoved in $150.

BTW, I have actually witnessed someone playing $1 in one hit and winning $40,000!!! Will probably never see it again though.

@skidbladnir,

I am not sure of the point you are trying to make. Are you saying clubs should return more to the community or pokies should be banned because some people can’t control themselves and the best way of helping them is to shut down the ACT club industry that 80% of adult Canberrans currently enjoy ?.

“At some point people have to take responsiblity for their own actions. You can’t just blame your addiction and say you had no control over your actions.”

GBT….. do you think people choose to become addicted??? do you think families with young children choose to have there house repossesssed by the bank?

Also, the reason they call it 14% as a sector whole is that it doesn’t stand up to Club-by-Club scrutiny if you remove those maintaining their own assets.

Interesting that 80% of adult Canberrans are now members of clubs

More interesting that a) >98% of our Gaming Tax burden falls on our highest tax margin, with some individual Clubs (not Club groups) making income 27 times the bottom of that margin and
b) that the amount ACT wagers per annum is in the billions of dollars, but they’re complaining that we’re not gambling enough so they deserve a tax cut.

If you want citations, I have plenty for you. 😛

(Give me a few weeks if you want it in an article, I have holidays to enjoy) 🙂

Sorry Skidbladnir, you were right, the link is here.

http://www.clubsact.com.au/club_sector/gaming_dollar.php

Interesting that 80% of adult Canberrans are now members of clubs

surely gross gaming machine revunue = machine turnover, the regressive bit is moot as they voluntarily contributed 14%

You’ll need a source for your claim John boy, I have never seen that.

A revision to the contribution is calculated might fix some of the issues many people have with them. I suggest a system whereby the required return to the community increases with the Gross income from gaming. And make it based on the club (as an organisation) rather then the club (as a location).

You also have to wonder how many of those charitable contributions ended up going to people who’d blown all of their money on the pokies…

Its a canberra thing, never mind that 12 million people in Australia are members of pokie clubs in Australia and that ACT clubs paid 14% of all poker machine turnover back into the community …

It is not 14% of turnover.
It was 14% of NGMR (not GGMR), and the calculation is based on a regressive model.
(The more you make, the less your % contribution as a portion of overall income due to the impact of taxation)

7% Contribution for Small Operator: 5.32% of GGMR7% Contribution for Large Operator: 3.85% of GGMR

Why does everyone hate pokies?

Probably due to the mindnumbing banality of the “activity.”

Still, it’s as good a stupidity tax as any.

Shame about the community contributions that are actually capital improvements at their clubs.

Its a canberra thing, never mind that 12 million people in Australia are members of pokie clubs in Australia and that ACT clubs paid 14% of all poker machine turnover back into the community (well above the 7% required).

If you dont like them, dont play them. Leave the other 12 million adults alone to enjoy themselves and you can continue to enjoy the 100 million dollars the ACT clubs give to charity each year.

Problem gamblers will find a way to gamble, especially in this day and age where you can do it from home. At least there is help available at the clubs.

Why does everyone hate pokies?

Sure, idiots get stuck on them, but idiots get stuck on grog, smokes, drugs, cars, the internet – Anything you want these days.

Unless you are going to wrap yourself in cling wrap and avoid every possible bump in the road of life, it seems a bit strange to attack one particular aspect that is harmful.

“If the government were to ban pokies they would need to ban all other forms of legalised gambling.”

I don’t see why. WA, for instance, has restricted the spread of pokies very effectively without banning horse racing or the lottery.

Original Crimes Online article

If the government were to ban pokies they would need to ban all other forms of legalised gambling.

At some point people have to take responsiblity for their own actions. You can’t just blame your addiction and say you had no control over your actions.

Is this another fractured fairy tale from The Canberra Times? As Warnie’s latest squeeze would say, treat everything you read in that so-called “newspaper” with a LARGE pinch of salt.

“Canberra’s licensed clubs want…” – out of interest has ClubsACT made any comment on this matter? Seems to be a rather backdoor way of breaking the news. Don’t these poeple have any morals on where and how they get a buck?

So the dedicated chain smoking gambling addicts are flocking to Quangers, so what? this will only last until NSW introduces similar rules – which they will at some point.

Could even be a good thing. Think about it, it won’t be long before the first family stationwagon runs out of fuel during the long drive back – because the card declined again after pissing it all down the slot agian.

They’ll at least have a couple of nice long walks to think about it.

+ 4 billion. bang on the number ezy.

Hows about the federal government bans pokies all together and stops ruining lives…. i think thats a good idea…