Parental help at schools

HenryBG said :

DrKoresh said :

Special G said :

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Yeah mate, just stop worrying about your illness, it’s all just in your head, caused by stress. Neglecting your treatment is the only mature to do here.

If money was an issue, he wouldn’t be sending his offspring to Orana (it *is*, Orana, isn’t it?).

The “medical issues” is emotional blackmail. Or maybe complete BS. One or the other. I bet it’s a plush house and two car loans that really costs him big.
This isn’t the USA, we have a health system that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg here. (Although the latest budget is removing Homeopathy and Crystal healing and other such crap from medical insurance, so I can understand Orana parents having a bit of a panic.)

Bottom line is he *should* be spending more time with his children – before & after schoolcare is a recipe for disaster.

Please point me in the direction of where he sends his kids to school, I don’t remember reading that they go to that school.

Watson said :

And yes, I lost it a bit in my last post. I am fed up with every man and his dog telling parents how they should raise their kids. And I bet it has a similar effect on lots of parents as treating kids like helpless idiots has on them.

I appreciate that.

But if you don’t want your parenting tactics to be criticised, then don’t offer them up for comment on a public forum.

Watson said :

And you expect parents to teach a child how to read and write?

Actually, I do.

All it takes is to read to them.

Literacy begins in the home.

DrKoresh said :

Special G said :

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Yeah mate, just stop worrying about your illness, it’s all just in your head, caused by stress. Neglecting your treatment is the only mature to do here.

If money was an issue, he wouldn’t be sending his offspring to Orana (it *is*, Orana, isn’t it?).

The “medical issues” is emotional blackmail. Or maybe complete BS. One or the other. I bet it’s a plush house and two car loans that really costs him big.
This isn’t the USA, we have a health system that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg here. (Although the latest budget is removing Homeopathy and Crystal healing and other such crap from medical insurance, so I can understand Orana parents having a bit of a panic.)

Bottom line is he *should* be spending more time with his children – before & after schoolcare is a recipe for disaster.

Jim Jones said :

Watson said :

Special G said :

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Stellar example of ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead. I’m sure they feel blessed to have a parent running after them asking them patronising questions.

In the meantime my child will suffer the natural consequences of not taking responsibility for herself while I shrug off the criticism of the busy bodies.

Oh god – the whole ‘personal responsibility’ right-wingtard meme has gone so far that people are sending their kids off without lunch to ‘learn em a lesson’. Failing to feed children because they’re forgetful – awesome work! I’m sure that missing meals will have nothing but a positive impact, after all, we all now how proper nutrition derails the educational process.

How on earth is that right wing? Because I don’t believe in nagging and repeating myself umpteen times? Because I believe the fastest way to learn is by experiencing the consequences of your actions? Are you seriously telling me your parents never did this? Then maybe you are too young to know that kids weren’t always treated like they all have a mental disability…

They are also resilient and adaptable. Most can cope with being in care even for long days. It’s not what I would chose to do, but I do not think it is child abuse either. I don’t agree with lots of things other parents do but I trust that the vast majority of them will do what they think is best for their kids and unless there is abuse happening it is none of my business.

And referring to the link between diet and learning because of ONE missed lunch? Seriously?

And yes, I lost it a bit in my last post. I am fed up with every man and his dog telling parents how they should raise their kids. And I bet it has a similar effect on lots of parents as treating kids like helpless idiots has on them.

Special G said :

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Yeah mate, just stop worrying about your illness, it’s all just in your head, caused by stress. Neglecting your treatment is the only mature to do here.

Tell you what. I’ll deal with your kids in a few years time then when your constant neglect leads them off the rails and straight down my path. Then you can transition from whinging about the schools not raising your kids to the police and the justice system having a go at them.

Seen it plenty of times – kids from ‘good’ families who are simply left to their own devices – suddenly it’s a shock to the parents when the Police start knocking on their door at 2am.

Yes I’m opinionated – this is a forum and I’ll go ramming it down everyones throat who cares to read it.

Back on topic. Jims got it right. Medical bills and struggling to make ends meet = stress, which is not good for those who have medical issues. Spending 10 hours every day at work means you don’t see your family that often. Work less – live more – spend the extra time helping your kids and they (and you) will benefit greatly from it.

And seriously how often are you asked (as a newish parent to schooling) to help out on weekends. Must be a private school thing.

Watson said :

Special G said :

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Stellar example of ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead. I’m sure they feel blessed to have a parent running after them asking them patronising questions.

In the meantime my child will suffer the natural consequences of not taking responsibility for herself while I shrug off the criticism of the busy bodies.

Oh god – the whole ‘personal responsibility’ right-wingtard meme has gone so far that people are sending their kids off without lunch to ‘learn em a lesson’. Failing to feed children because they’re forgetful – awesome work! I’m sure that missing meals will have nothing but a positive impact, after all, we all now how proper nutrition derails the educational process.

Props for the massive irony in raving about how much better your way of doing things is than all those ‘namby pamby’ parents who make sure their kids are fed, and then cracking the sh1ts (“ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead”) when someone calls you out on it.

TheDancingDjinn said :

Splendiferous said :

I’ve taking great delight in the fact that you think I’m not taking an active role in my childs life just because I don’t leave work during the work hours to help out at the school.

We both have to work because I have to pay outrageous medical costs for an ongoing condition. Our health care doesn’t cover the costs and nor does the government (for the majority). Without this treatment I wouldn’t be around to see my kids. You knew nothing of my personal situation yet felt obliged to tell me I’m a bad parent.

Next time you feel like mounting your high horses how about you take a view outside of your perfect world and realise people work for reasons other than to get rich.

I really hope you all have the warm and fuzzies – Because i know i sure as fuck do.. sometimes this site makes me so ashamed to be human and in this country.

Meh. The dude posted a very leading post (face it, it was more of a complaint than a serious request for information) – didn’t supply all the relevant information, and then complains when people offer their opinions, which, on a site such as this, are always going to be extremely varied (and inflammatory).

I’m sorry that he’s sick and having problems making it work, and obviously none of us have the full story. But that doesn’t create some of alternative universe in which people can’t offer their opinions. It is a forum after all.

If it were me, I’d be seriously questing paying for before and after school care, school fees and having very limited time to spend with my children and also working long hours to pay for all this. IMHO it would be better – if possible – to take the kids out of private school and all the before and after school care, and spend more time with them rather than working to pay for it all.

Regardless, asking for opinions and then cracking the shits when you don’t agree with them is a pretty common occurrence round here (my fave was the freak who went nuts because the school gave her kid a syringe).

Jim Jones said :

I think you misinterpret what I’m getting at. I’m by no means saying that the ‘youth of today’ are worse than in the past (if anything, the youth of today are – on the whole – better educated and doling a hell of a lot better than previous generations. Plenty of figures to demonstrate that. Basic literacy and numeracy are way up compared to the ‘good old days’.

There’s a (relatively recent) attitudinal change in parents in which school is becoming seen (by many – by no means all) as being a service that provides everything that children need. Rather than school being a place where kids go to during the day to learn and play, more and more people assume that school will take care of raising their children: including toilet training, learning to read, write and count, basic discipline (yes, school do need to provide discipline, but it isn’t the role of school to be the *only* form of discipline in a child’s life, and in no way should school ever provide the foundation of a child’s disciplinary learning), and so on.

It’s not a question of ‘teachers are all crap and in my day they were tougher and things were better’. That’s quite clearly bullshit. There have been any number of changes in society since ‘the good old days’ – some of them for the better, some of them for the worse. The one negative change that’s easily identifiable is people assuming that school is service provided to them that will rear their children – all they have to do is pay the bills and find something to do with the kids during the holidays.

Finally, the vast majority of primary school teachers are not in their 20s. It’s a rapidly aging profession – mainly due to the low socio-economic and cultural status of teachers (and respect accorded them by parents and wider society). Why in all hell would you go into teaching given how poorly teachers are regarded and renumerated? This leads to a vicious circle – anyone with intelligence and ambition avoids education, the education system gets a lower standard of teachers, respect for teachers declines, etc. ad nauseum.

No teachers are not worse than they were. But schools are. I blame the whole fear of public liability insanity and the media first and foremost. Teachers’ hands are often tied and it is not doing them nor the kids in their care any favours.

And I have yet to hear an example of teachers having to toilet train a child. You may know a few teachers, but I know lots of parents who would have known if there was such a child in their kids’ class.

And you expect parents to teach a child how to read and write?

And parents spending less time with their kids because of work commitments is a myth. Studies have shown that parents spend more time actively interacting with their kids than ever before. Maybe that’s the problem…

Special G said :

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Stellar example of ramming your own idea on how to raise kids down someone else’s throat. Back off and look after your own snot-nosed brood instead. I’m sure they feel blessed to have a parent running after them asking them patronising questions.

In the meantime my child will suffer the natural consequences of not taking responsibility for herself while I shrug off the criticism of the busy bodies.

Splendiferous said :

I’ve taking great delight in the fact that you think I’m not taking an active role in my childs life just because I don’t leave work during the work hours to help out at the school.

We both have to work because I have to pay outrageous medical costs for an ongoing condition. Our health care doesn’t cover the costs and nor does the government (for the majority). Without this treatment I wouldn’t be around to see my kids. You knew nothing of my personal situation yet felt obliged to tell me I’m a bad parent.

Next time you feel like mounting your high horses how about you take a view outside of your perfect world and realise people work for reasons other than to get rich.

I really hope you all have the warm and fuzzies – Because i know i sure as fuck do.. sometimes this site makes me so ashamed to be human and in this country.

I’ve taking great delight in the fact that you think I’m not taking an active role in my childs life just because I don’t leave work during the work hours to help out at the school.

We both have to work because I have to pay outrageous medical costs for an ongoing condition. Our health care doesn’t cover the costs and nor does the government (for the majority). Without this treatment I wouldn’t be around to see my kids. You knew nothing of my personal situation yet felt obliged to tell me I’m a bad parent.

Next time you feel like mounting your high horses how about you take a view outside of your perfect world and realise people work for reasons other than to get rich.

Letting your child go to school without lunch – stellar example of great parenting. Same would be acheived by letting them walk out the door then asking if they have anything. If your child is faffing about it is the parents job to direct them so that timings can be met.

Back to the OP – If you don’t spend time with your kids when they are little do you truly expect them to listen to you when they are older. If you go to their class even a couple of times that is what they remember.

Just say no.

By all means be involved in your childs education – read with them every day (to them and listen to them), discuss what they have learnt at school, supervise/assist with homework, talk to them and be involved in their lives and what is happening at school (from their perspective).

Watson said :

Jim Jones said :

I’m not an old fogey, and I’m generally the first to call BS on any ‘world going to hell in a hand basket’ rhetoric (particularly regarding crime, cost of living, etc. But I stand by that comment: talk to some primary school teachers about it, it’s becoming more and more prevalent. Sadly, there are some primary schools where the kids have to be fed breakfast because they’re being dumped at school without being fed first – these are not all ‘poor’ families that do this either. In some instances the parents do it because they’re in a rush to get to work.

Maybe not a “world going to hell in a hand basket” comment, but an equally popular “youth of today” complaint. A good war is what we need!

The vast majority of primary school teachers at our school seem to be in their 20s. But I’m sure they are all great judges on how much parenting has deteriorated. And of course none of it has anything to do with the fact that the teachers don’t know how to discipline kids when they play up. The kids themselves are never held accountable for anything by the school, it’s always the parents’ fault. Not so “in my day”!

Maybe the kids are dropped off at school without breakfast because they were faffing around all morning instead of eating. My child went to school today without lunch because after giving her a zillion gentle reminders, she still left it sitting on the bench and buggered if I was going to go out of my way to reward her muddle-headedness by delivering it to her class. But the teacher will have bought her a canteen lunch unfortunately. It would’ve been a much better lesson if they would let her go hungry.

I think you misinterpret what I’m getting at. I’m by no means saying that the ‘youth of today’ are worse than in the past (if anything, the youth of today are – on the whole – better educated and doling a hell of a lot better than previous generations. Plenty of figures to demonstrate that. Basic literacy and numeracy are way up compared to the ‘good old days’.

There’s a (relatively recent) attitudinal change in parents in which school is becoming seen (by many – by no means all) as being a service that provides everything that children need. Rather than school being a place where kids go to during the day to learn and play, more and more people assume that school will take care of raising their children: including toilet training, learning to read, write and count, basic discipline (yes, school do need to provide discipline, but it isn’t the role of school to be the *only* form of discipline in a child’s life, and in no way should school ever provide the foundation of a child’s disciplinary learning), and so on.

It’s not a question of ‘teachers are all crap and in my day they were tougher and things were better’. That’s quite clearly bullshit. There have been any number of changes in society since ‘the good old days’ – some of them for the better, some of them for the worse. The one negative change that’s easily identifiable is people assuming that school is service provided to them that will rear their children – all they have to do is pay the bills and find something to do with the kids during the holidays.

Finally, the vast majority of primary school teachers are not in their 20s. It’s a rapidly aging profession – mainly due to the low socio-economic and cultural status of teachers (and respect accorded them by parents and wider society). Why in all hell would you go into teaching given how poorly teachers are regarded and renumerated? This leads to a vicious circle – anyone with intelligence and ambition avoids education, the education system gets a lower standard of teachers, respect for teachers declines, etc. ad nauseum.

HenryBG said :

Watson said :

Jim Jones said :

Particularly given that the current attitude towards the education system means that a lot of teachers are also engaged in activities (such as toilet training and basic discipline) that used to be taught at home, but which some people now feel aren’t their responsibility. Not to cast aspersions on anyone posting here (and certainly not the OP), but there are a lot of people who think that the education system is a form of outsourcing childrearing.

I call BS on that. Typical old fogey “world going to hell in a hand basket” comment.

You’re wrong.
Many teachers in my family – they all confirm that Jim Jones is correct.
My Mrs is regularly abused by bogan parents in their early 20s who have been called in after their feral garbage offspring has had to be removed from class for misbehaviour or a general inability to follow direction.

Because the bogans in the olden days were all stellar examples of good manners and parenting?

Jim Jones said :

I’m not an old fogey, and I’m generally the first to call BS on any ‘world going to hell in a hand basket’ rhetoric (particularly regarding crime, cost of living, etc. But I stand by that comment: talk to some primary school teachers about it, it’s becoming more and more prevalent. Sadly, there are some primary schools where the kids have to be fed breakfast because they’re being dumped at school without being fed first – these are not all ‘poor’ families that do this either. In some instances the parents do it because they’re in a rush to get to work.

Maybe not a “world going to hell in a hand basket” comment, but an equally popular “youth of today” complaint. A good war is what we need!

The vast majority of primary school teachers at our school seem to be in their 20s. But I’m sure they are all great judges on how much parenting has deteriorated. And of course none of it has anything to do with the fact that the teachers don’t know how to discipline kids when they play up. The kids themselves are never held accountable for anything by the school, it’s always the parents’ fault. Not so “in my day”!

Maybe the kids are dropped off at school without breakfast because they were faffing around all morning instead of eating. My child went to school today without lunch because after giving her a zillion gentle reminders, she still left it sitting on the bench and buggered if I was going to go out of my way to reward her muddle-headedness by delivering it to her class. But the teacher will have bought her a canteen lunch unfortunately. It would’ve been a much better lesson if they would let her go hungry.

This week is National Families Week!! Tip10 for helping kids to grow and learn: Get involved in your child’s education.

Watson said :

Jim Jones said :

Particularly given that the current attitude towards the education system means that a lot of teachers are also engaged in activities (such as toilet training and basic discipline) that used to be taught at home, but which some people now feel aren’t their responsibility. Not to cast aspersions on anyone posting here (and certainly not the OP), but there are a lot of people who think that the education system is a form of outsourcing childrearing.

I call BS on that. Typical old fogey “world going to hell in a hand basket” comment.

You’re wrong.
Many teachers in my family – they all confirm that Jim Jones is correct.
My Mrs is regularly abused by bogan parents in their early 20s who have been called in after their feral garbage offspring has had to be removed from class for misbehaviour or a general inability to follow direction.

Watson said :

Jim Jones said :

Particularly given that the current attitude towards the education system means that a lot of teachers are also engaged in activities (such as toilet training and basic discipline) that used to be taught at home, but which some people now feel aren’t their responsibility. Not to cast aspersions on anyone posting here (and certainly not the OP), but there are a lot of people who think that the education system is a form of outsourcing childrearing.

I call BS on that. Typical old fogey “world going to hell in a hand basket” comment.

I’m not an old fogey, and I’m generally the first to call BS on any ‘world going to hell in a hand basket’ rhetoric (particularly regarding crime, cost of living, etc. But I stand by that comment: talk to some primary school teachers about it, it’s becoming more and more prevalent. Sadly, there are some primary schools where the kids have to be fed breakfast because they’re being dumped at school without being fed first – these are not all ‘poor’ families that do this either. In some instances the parents do it because they’re in a rush to get to work.

Jim Jones said :

Particularly given that the current attitude towards the education system means that a lot of teachers are also engaged in activities (such as toilet training and basic discipline) that used to be taught at home, but which some people now feel aren’t their responsibility. Not to cast aspersions on anyone posting here (and certainly not the OP), but there are a lot of people who think that the education system is a form of outsourcing childrearing.

I call BS on that. Typical old fogey “world going to hell in a hand basket” comment.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Staying away from the riff-raff is exactly why many people put their kids into private schools. And until some firmer action can be taken to control the behaviour of said riff-raff, nothing will change.

Precisely.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

I went to a high school in a very low socioeconomic area, and some of the bad behaviour had to be seen to be believed. No way would I want my children exposed to that.

Exactly, same as me – no way could I as a responsible parent allow my children to end up in a dysfunctional environment such as the one where I did my schooling.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

If I send my children to private school, I can request that problems involving really bad behaviour can be dealt with.

You don’t even need to request – the school keeps an eye on things and mostly takes care of bad behaviour without prompting.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

In an ideal world, kids would attend public schools, and the real troublemakers would be dealt with. But that’s not the way things are, and I as a parent will try to find the best option for my children, […].

Ironic that things are the way things are as a direct result of limp-lefties dreaming of an ideal world but finding that it is much easier to *pretend* nothing nasty happens rather than actually deal with the nastiness properly….

Anyway, as far as the OP goes – I used to always give my offspring’s school at least one half day per term. It is when they are in their earliest years of schooling that this pays the most and you’d be a selfish, shortsighted fool if you miss the opportunity because you want to spend an extra few hours in pointless unproductive meetings instead.
Your children are your life, your future, and your legacy.
Your work is that boring and pointless crap you do to pay the bills.
Unless you’re a lawyer – in that case you’ll be doing the whole world a favour if you outsource your children’s rearing to the maximum extent possible.

DrKoresh said :

Watson said :

…And personally, no doubt very much influenced by my background, I think that if the teacher needs an army of parents every day to help teach their 20 pupils how to read and do simple sums, maybe there is something very wrong with teacher training…

I think you highlighted one of the main issues here, but it’s nothing to do with teacher training. It’s expecting 1 teacher to be able to not only corral and supervise 20 very young children but to teach them all to read and write at the same time. That’s what I think is positive about getting in parent volunteers for reading groups and such, especially what I remember from kindergarten some 15 odd years ago, it allows for children to develop their literacy skills through one-on-one guidance from an adult. 1 teacher alone can’t sit down with just 1 child, even for 5 minutes, because they have another 20-25 kids they are also responsible for.

Particularly given that the current attitude towards the education system means that a lot of teachers are also engaged in activities (such as toilet training and basic discipline) that used to be taught at home, but which some people now feel aren’t their responsibility. Not to cast aspersions on anyone posting here (and certainly not the OP), but there are a lot of people who think that the education system is a form of outsourcing childrearing.

Watson said :

…And personally, no doubt very much influenced by my background, I think that if the teacher needs an army of parents every day to help teach their 20 pupils how to read and do simple sums, maybe there is something very wrong with teacher training…

I think you highlighted one of the main issues here, but it’s nothing to do with teacher training. It’s expecting 1 teacher to be able to not only corral and supervise 20 very young children but to teach them all to read and write at the same time. That’s what I think is positive about getting in parent volunteers for reading groups and such, especially what I remember from kindergarten some 15 odd years ago, it allows for children to develop their literacy skills through one-on-one guidance from an adult. 1 teacher alone can’t sit down with just 1 child, even for 5 minutes, because they have another 20-25 kids they are also responsible for.

I don’t know if the people enjoying a bit of good old parent bashing over this person not wanting to spend an extra hour at school “with their kids” know what the helping out at school entails? Most of the time, it will mean helping to teach other people’s kids to read. You don’t get to choose which reading or maths group you lead. It is not at all quality time spend with your time.

I wish people would just mind their own business and their own kids (or organise for someone else to mind them)…

And personally, no doubt very much influenced by my background, I think that if the teacher needs an army of parents every day to help teach their 20 pupils how to read and do simple sums, maybe there is something very wrong with teacher training.

I’ve seen these reading groups in action and even though I am grateful for those parents who can and will volunteer because I know they do it from the goodness of their heart (or alternatively so they can look down on those who don’t – plenty of those around too), I can’t really see what difference they make. Sometimes I wonder if they were mainly invented with the sole purpose of adding to the parental guilt if they cannot jump to attention when the school sends out their desperate pleas for more volunteers. Bah humbug.

Splendiferous said :

dvaey said :

All these comments criticizing the school, but no-one seems to note that youve got two children, who you probably see for 2 or 3 hours a day (in the brief time between 5:45pm and 8pm when they goto sleep).

Did you have children to have them in your life, or did you have children to be put into childcare for 10hrs a day? Why do you feel it is such an imposition in your life to be asked to spend a bit of time involving yourself in your childs education?

“But surely fully paying my money to my childs school means I shouldnt have to actually commit time to my children as well” is pretty much how I read this post.

You’re absolutely right.

I should just leave child rearing to those that either have all the money and can afford to not work or would rather get it from my taxes and not bother with work. That will teach my children how to act in the real world.

I don’t know what I was thinking.

I don’t know that anyone can afford to have children, can they?

This is a tough one; initially I was thinking along the lines of Dvaey – you can’t just send your child to school and expect the education system, private or not, to make up for what the parent hasn’t been able to provide.

It’s easy to criticise when we don’t know all of the circumstances. However, one hour a week to spend with your child is nothing in the big scheme of things. It’s something that they will cherish and remember. You then have an opportunity to see their peers, get to know their friends. I made significant financial sacrifices when my children were younger by choosing to work part time, I was a single parent. I felt so strongly about being there in the early years, I did it really tough. Sure, I’m still recovering financially years later, but I have two lovely, highly intelligent children.

And then Mr Padoof reminds me about non-public servant working people. How soon we forget it was like working in the private sector.

My two bobs’ worth – if you’re in the public service, no excuse, go and do it. You will never, ever, get these precious years back. Don’t have the expectation that because you are sending your child/ren to a private school that you are ‘off the hook’.

If you’re in the private sector, is there any scope to negotiate some time with your employer? Can you play tag with your other half, so one week one of you start work a bit later in the morning? Surely there’s scope to have some flexibility in the workplace.

Your kids are for life, invest in them as the need arises. If there’s need for you to spend some time now, the one hour a week may avoid numerous hours a week in a few years’ time.

Special G said :

I’m going to agree completely with Dvaey on this one (gasp).

One of the biggest things in ensuring your child succeeds at school is your involvement in their education. If you are never there it’s like you don’t care.

Maybe your child has asked “why do all the other parents come in but mine don’t?”.

Scarily enough I kinda agree as well.

Can’t see why you’d go to so much effort to provide for your kids education and then not spend any time with them. Education comes first and foremost from the home – through interaction and play with parents.

Maybe you could enlighten us all as to which school this is?

Also those govvie school bashers, perhaps you should bully-proof your kids instead of blaming the school system for your lack of parenting skills.

I’m going to agree completely with Dvaey on this one (gasp).

One of the biggest things in ensuring your child succeeds at school is your involvement in their education. If you are never there it’s like you don’t care.

Maybe your child has asked “why do all the other parents come in but mine don’t?”.

Splendiferous said :

I should just leave child rearing to those that either have all the money and can afford to not work or would rather get it from my taxes and not bother with work. That will teach my children how to act in the real world.

Instead, youre leaving the child-rearing upto the teachers and childcare workers? Why not just put your kids in boarding school until holidays, that way they wont get in the way of your busy work life, and if you send them far enough away, you can justify to the school why you cant travel to be involved in their schooling.

What is ‘the real world’ for a child, being with their parents or being in childcare for 10+ hours a day? Sadly it seems the latter, lately.

2604 said :

Boxhead said :

Canberrans need to have a complete re-think of full-fee education for their children. Most only do it because everyone else is doing it.

Actually, most people “do it” because they know their kids will learn more and be happier in an environment where feral behaviour is punished, rather than tolerated.

Hang on a second, where is this magical school that has no feral behaviour?

Maybe somewhere between Daramalan and Merici, or maybe Dara and Marist? Maybe you’re thinking of somewhere on the northside? Or maybe with the next generation of sportsmen?

You can find negative stories about all schools, ferals will exist everywhere, the best you can do is educate your child (like, YOU personally.. dont go paying someone else to do it, again) in how to handle these situations and stand up for themselves. I know many kids who have been kicked out of school for poor behaviour, so by claiming that theyre not doing so, maybe if you actually spent some time at the school, you might see this?

Sure, you can wrap your kids up in cotton-wool and only allow them to socialise with the upperclass ‘non-ferals’, but your first statement said you wanted your kids to be ready for the real world. When your kids grow up, do you want them to be able to handle these situations, or run off to mummy and daddy to pay money to move them somewhere else? If they keep trying to move from the ferals in their lives, theyll never stop moving… if they can handle themselves around these ferals, then they’ll be better placed human beings for the “real world”.

Tell’em to get stuffed

Boxhead said :

Canberrans need to have a complete re-think of full-fee education for their children. Most only do it because everyone else is doing it.

Actually, most people “do it” because they know their kids will learn more and be happier in an environment where feral behaviour is punished, rather than tolerated.

Boxhead said :

Why not stop and put your child in the excellent, free and secular public school system?

A more pertinent question is why teachers, who know and understand the realities of the government education system better than anyone else, are usually so reluctant to send their own kids to the local govvy school, and will only send them to govvy schools in wealthy areas or to private schools.

BerraBoy68 said :

Are you really being shamed or are you personally feeling bad that you just can’t do this? There is a difference and please note I’m not judging you, I’m just asking the question.

I sit on the Governance Committee at my kids school (a Catholic Primary school) and we certainly don’t try to ‘shame’ anybody into doing more than they want, or are able, to do.

I think that with resources getting more expensive, and less people wanting to become teachers, schools asking parent to help out has become the ‘norm’.

Personally, I try to take a day off a term and work in the canteen and also get actively involved in almost all after hours activities (BBQ’s, Movie nights, Xmas party’s Fete’s etc.).

It’s a great way to take part in your kids formal education and hey, it’s also great fun!

Either way, I’d suggest that if you could just let the school know that while you might not be able to assist during the school day, you’d be happy to volunteer at any of the out-of-hours activities the school must have.

The shaming is unfortunately very real and comes from parents who are the class coordinators. It is via emails to the teacher and all of the parents / guardians of the students.

I get involved in a lot of after hours activities on weekends and love it, which is why it stings that little bit more.

The only reason I don’t take the day off here and there to go to the school during the working week is to save my time for holidays with the family where I get 100% of the time with my wife and girls.

GardeningGirl said :

I helped out at the government school we chose, as did quite a few parents who were in a position to do so, but it was never a requirement. I went to a few open days when shopping around for a school and now you mention it I remember one did have some sort of requirement for x hours per week parental contribution. Weren’t you told about the requirement when enrolling?

No requirement for x hours per week. They only mentioned there are activities on the weekend which they would like parents to help out with, which we do.

dvaey said :

All these comments criticizing the school, but no-one seems to note that youve got two children, who you probably see for 2 or 3 hours a day (in the brief time between 5:45pm and 8pm when they goto sleep).

Did you have children to have them in your life, or did you have children to be put into childcare for 10hrs a day? Why do you feel it is such an imposition in your life to be asked to spend a bit of time involving yourself in your childs education?

“But surely fully paying my money to my childs school means I shouldnt have to actually commit time to my children as well” is pretty much how I read this post.

You’re absolutely right.

I should just leave child rearing to those that either have all the money and can afford to not work or would rather get it from my taxes and not bother with work. That will teach my children how to act in the real world.

I don’t know what I was thinking.

Perhaps you could try saying no to the “school hours” assistance but say you would be happy to assist at weekend events such as working bees, sporting events etc.

Boxhead said :

Isn’t the whole point of full-fee education to keep the parents working so they can keep paying the fees? Seems a bit self-defeating for the school to ask the parents to stop working (or put their “loyalty” to their job under question) for even a small amount of time.

Canberrans need to have a complete re-think of full-fee education for their children. Most only do it because everyone else is doing it. Why not stop and put your child in the excellent, free and secular public school system? When “everyone” does this (except the genuinely rich who can actually comfortably afford private schools), there will be no pressure for parents to feel like their kids will be left with the riff-raff in the public school.

I have to say that I am in stunned disbelief when non-Catholic (and even athiest) parents tell me that they prefer the Catholic system over public schools. Is it the feel-good factor of knowing that by paying, you are keeping your kids away from the riff-raff? What are you actually paying for? Seems to me the main purpose of those schools is religious indoctrination, not education in the sense of critical thinking, weighing evidence and discovering the truth.

For the record, we have put our children into a private school because we had trouble getting into public schools that valued education and were in an area close to where we live or work (or are on the route).

Both my wife and I went to public schools and we would be only too happy to revisit them if the opportunity arose.

I don’t help out as I just cannot make time during school hours. Unless it is a requirement that they told you about when you enrolled (and I too did read that on some school’s website – either Orana or the O’Connor school?), I would just politely say no.

I come from a country where parents helping out at school is just unheard of.

Are you really being shamed or are you personally feeling bad that you just can’t do this? There is a difference and please note I’m not judging you, I’m just asking the question.

I sit on the Governance Committee at my kids school (a Catholic Primary school) and we certainly don’t try to ‘shame’ anybody into doing more than they want, or are able, to do.

I think that with resources getting more expensive, and less people wanting to become teachers, schools asking parent to help out has become the ‘norm’. Personally, I try to take a day off a term and work in the canteen and also get actively involved in almost all after hours activities (BBQ’s, Movie nights, Xmas party’s Fete’s etc.). It’s a great way to take part in your kids formal education and hey, it’s also great fun!

Either way, I’d suggest that if you could just let the school know that while you might not be able to assist during the school day, you’d be happy to volunteer at any of the out-of-hours activities the school must have.

To Boxhead – having tried the ACT public school system – I finally put my son in the local Catholic school after having been called 8 times in one year about him being bashed by another child (3 times he required medical attention) – as the child was only in junior primary there was nothing I could do about him legally – as the mother involved didn’t care – there was nothing the school could do about the little brat either. It was either move him to the Catholic school or spend a fortune on medical bills and counselling for him when he hit his teens – The public schools in Canberra are no longer “excellent, free and secular public school system”, if I felt my boy was safe in the public school system here he would still be there.

I volunteer at both my son’s school and my daughter’s preschool – as I work part time. I have never felt any pressure to do so, there are requests and often options given for the type of help you can give, but it’s never been “expected” and many parent’s don’t.

dvaey said :

All these comments criticizing the school, but no-one seems to note that youve got two children, who you probably see for 2 or 3 hours a day (in the brief time between 5:45pm and 8pm when they goto sleep).

Did you have children to have them in your life, or did you have children to be put into childcare for 10hrs a day? Why do you feel it is such an imposition in your life to be asked to spend a bit of time involving yourself in your childs education?

“But surely fully paying my money to my childs school means I shouldnt have to actually commit time to my children as well” is pretty much how I read this post.

wow, I expected someone to pull out the sanctimonious parental criticism card well before comment 9.

Boxhead said :

Isn’t the whole point of full-fee education to keep the parents working so they can keep paying the fees? Seems a bit self-defeating for the school to ask the parents to stop working (or put their “loyalty” to their job under question) for even a small amount of time.

Canberrans need to have a complete re-think of full-fee education for their children. Most only do it because everyone else is doing it. Why not stop and put your child in the excellent, free and secular public school system? When “everyone” does this (except the genuinely rich who can actually comfortably afford private schools), there will be no pressure for parents to feel like their kids will be left with the riff-raff in the public school.

I have to say that I am in stunned disbelief when non-Catholic (and even athiest) parents tell me that they prefer the Catholic system over public schools. Is it the feel-good factor of knowing that by paying, you are keeping your kids away from the riff-raff? What are you actually paying for? Seems to me the main purpose of those schools is religious indoctrination, not education in the sense of critical thinking, weighing evidence and discovering the truth.

Staying away from the riff-raff is exactly why many people put their kids into private schools. And until some firmer action can be taken to control the behaviour of said riff-raff, nothing will change.

I went to a high school in a very low socioeconomic area, and some of the bad behaviour had to be seen to be believed. No way would I want my children exposed to that.

If I send my children to private school, I can request that problems involving really bad behaviour can be dealt with. In some cases the perpetrators will be asked to leave the school. I don’t really have this option with public schools, though, as principals seem to have a lot less authority, and there seem to be more things that they ‘can’t do anything about’.

In an ideal world, kids would attend public schools, and the real troublemakers would be dealt with. But that’s not the way things are, and I as a parent will try to find the best option for my children, evenif it is less than ideal on the whole.

All these comments criticizing the school, but no-one seems to note that youve got two children, who you probably see for 2 or 3 hours a day (in the brief time between 5:45pm and 8pm when they goto sleep).

Did you have children to have them in your life, or did you have children to be put into childcare for 10hrs a day? Why do you feel it is such an imposition in your life to be asked to spend a bit of time involving yourself in your childs education?

“But surely fully paying my money to my childs school means I shouldnt have to actually commit time to my children as well” is pretty much how I read this post.

I helped out at the government school we chose, as did quite a few parents who were in a position to do so, but it was never a requirement. I went to a few open days when shopping around for a school and now you mention it I remember one did have some sort of requirement for x hours per week parental contribution. Weren’t you told about the requirement when enrolling?

Isn’t the whole point of full-fee education to keep the parents working so they can keep paying the fees? Seems a bit self-defeating for the school to ask the parents to stop working (or put their “loyalty” to their job under question) for even a small amount of time.

Canberrans need to have a complete re-think of full-fee education for their children. Most only do it because everyone else is doing it. Why not stop and put your child in the excellent, free and secular public school system? When “everyone” does this (except the genuinely rich who can actually comfortably afford private schools), there will be no pressure for parents to feel like their kids will be left with the riff-raff in the public school.

I have to say that I am in stunned disbelief when non-Catholic (and even athiest) parents tell me that they prefer the Catholic system over public schools. Is it the feel-good factor of knowing that by paying, you are keeping your kids away from the riff-raff? What are you actually paying for? Seems to me the main purpose of those schools is religious indoctrination, not education in the sense of critical thinking, weighing evidence and discovering the truth.

Thank you all. I’m glad to see everybody is singing the same song.

There are very constructive comments for this and I’ve taken them all on board.

Once again, thanks.

I helped at my daughter’s first school previously, but because I wanted to, and I am lucky enough to work at home with ‘very flexible hours’. But I was very assertive about what I would do. No school should be demanding your help. The payment of fees issue is not the important one to me, it’s that any school, public or private, should expect your help. If you can’t do it, you can’t do it. Tell them.

I must say it seems a bit cheap and nasty, and will result in parents who are resentful kicking around the school, rather than those who want to be there and have a particular skill.

I’ve never heard of parental involvement being the subject of a formal request or shaming. Imagine if every parent did that! 25-odd hours per week of parental instruction? They’re only in school for 30 hours a week, and probably only about 23 of that is classtime! Our school is very big on parental help in the classroom, but a general “we’d love you to get involved, so if you have time speak to your kid’s teacher” type thing is what we normally get.

If you don’t have time, I wouldn’t sweat it. Help out the school/ community where you can. Leave the rest.

I can say at Miss’s school, they often give parents an option of coming in and joining the class and helping out. We are not made to feel ashamed if we can’t make it.

Just say no, there is no obligation and if you feel guilty or shamed just explain as you have here that you are paid hourly and cannot afford the time off. If you think it might be worthwhile for your kids to see one of you at school for these activities you have to weigh that up for youself. Feel secure in the choices you make. Nobody can ‘make’ you feel shamed.

I have never heard of this being framed as a request for parents to take time off work specifically, but my kids are older so maybe the fact most families now have two parents working full-time means schools don’t get the extra help they once enjoyed.

I’m not a parent, but I work with plenty and have never heard of any of them taking time off for something like this. My suggestion is to treat this as a valuable opportunity to teach your offspring a valuable lesson about resistance to peer pressure.