Parking, Parents with Prams Style

devilzadvocate said :

I don’t have kids or a pram but love parking in these spots in belco. They aren’t any wider than other spots and are not legally enforceable. But they are always close to the entrance!

I don’t park in disabled parking and understand the need for them.. but parents with prams? How ridiculous…

Meh … buy your own shopping mall and set up the carpark exactly how you want it then.

Jim Jones said :

poetix said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

People with kids are selfish

HA! Genius. Satiric gold. Seriously dude, send that material in to The Onion, they’ll go crazy for you.

I can’t take credit, I steal most of my material from this guy who’s genius includes comments like “herp derp” and “terk er jerbs” on every second thread here.

That guy’s material is the best.

Yeah. I love that guy.

I like his modesty as much as his funnies.

Totally with you on that one.

Just an awesome guy all round really. He should probably have one of those nobel prize thingos, or be knighted, or get a crown even.

A crown would be pretty cool.

Indeed i could just picture you wearing a crown of thorns 🙂

Women and children first is not chivalry.

It’s communal survival.

One man can father a whole new generation. But women’s reproductive abilities are harder to replace.

Which is why traditionally the men go off for the killing and dying and the women of the tribe stay home.

Men are easily replaced. Lose the women and you’re gone as a society.

poetix said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

People with kids are selfish

HA! Genius. Satiric gold. Seriously dude, send that material in to The Onion, they’ll go crazy for you.

I can’t take credit, I steal most of my material from this guy who’s genius includes comments like “herp derp” and “terk er jerbs” on every second thread here.

That guy’s material is the best.

Yeah. I love that guy.

I like his modesty as much as his funnies.

Totally with you on that one.

Just an awesome guy all round really. He should probably have one of those nobel prize thingos, or be knighted, or get a crown even.

A crown would be pretty cool.

“I do not think men are inferior to women. But to have a society where strength is valued more than kindness or bravery would be a bad thing.”

In that case, why can’t the women be the “kind and brave” ones and let the men go first? Why do the men have to let the women go first? That’s called a double standard.

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

People with kids are selfish

HA! Genius. Satiric gold. Seriously dude, send that material in to The Onion, they’ll go crazy for you.

I can’t take credit, I steal most of my material from this guy who’s genius includes comments like “herp derp” and “terk er jerbs” on every second thread here.

That guy’s material is the best.

Yeah. I love that guy.

I like his modesty as much as his funnies.

maxblues said :

And putting lifeboats in the PWP places would also be a bad thing.

Well that would just be redundant, given that the symbol in the photo clearly indicates that only prams equipped with life preservers are allowed in the space.

I don’t have kids or a pram but love parking in these spots in belco. They aren’t any wider than other spots and are not legally enforceable. But they are always close to the entrance!

I don’t park in disabled parking and understand the need for them.. but parents with prams? How ridiculous…

poetix said :

Angelite said :

“That’s your own twisted interpretation of what Poetix said. But if you want all bets off when the shit hits the fan, that’s fine. Just make your feelings known to your rescuers before they risk their lives; I’m betting you won’t.”

Like I said, whoever gets there first gets saved. Pardon me for thinking men aren’t inferior to women and children and their lives are equally important.

Like I said, I am female, but I don’t consider myself more than a man because I am female.

I do not think men are inferior to women. But to have a society where strength is valued more than kindness or bravery would be a bad thing.

And putting lifeboats in the PWP places would also be a bad thing.

Angelite said :

“That’s your own twisted interpretation of what Poetix said. But if you want all bets off when the shit hits the fan, that’s fine. Just make your feelings known to your rescuers before they risk their lives; I’m betting you won’t.”

Like I said, whoever gets there first gets saved. Pardon me for thinking men aren’t inferior to women and children and their lives are equally important.

Like I said, I am female, but I don’t consider myself more than a man because I am female.

I do not think men are inferior to women. But to have a society where strength is valued more than kindness or bravery would be a bad thing.

“That’s your own twisted interpretation of what Poetix said. But if you want all bets off when the shit hits the fan, that’s fine. Just make your feelings known to your rescuers before they risk their lives; I’m betting you won’t.”

Like I said, whoever gets there first gets saved. Pardon me for thinking men aren’t inferior to women and children and their lives are equally important.

Like I said, I am female, but I don’t consider myself more than a man because I am female.

I’m fairly sure the parents with prams parking spots at the Belconnen mall (near the AusPost entrance) are the same size as the regularly ones. The newer spaces are bigger i believe. But the same goes for other PWP spots in Canberra, they seem to be the same size as the regular spaces, just converted to PWP.

Therefore some of the pro-PWP supporter arguments about it really being a space issue seem to be redundant to me.

Firstly ‘Parents with prams’ car spaces are for PARENTS WITH PRAMS or kids who are in capsules or child restraints and unable to open car doors, do all this talk of carte d’or vandals is irrelevant.
Secondly, in any given shopping centre that has ‘Parents with prams’ parking, there are hundreds of small children, far greater than could fit in the aforesaid car places…do their parents MUST have been able to park in normal spaces.
Thirdly, with all this talk of hand-to-hand combat on the high seas…who have you been cruising with, sailor?

seanneko said :

Postalgeek said :

I’m guessing you’ve never seen the surprisingly forceful way a young child can push open a car door, given you want them mixing it up with you in confined spaces.

Personally, I would encourage families to dent each other’s doors, but that’s just me.

Slack parenting is not justification for special wider parking spots.

I used to be a kid, and I never slammed a car door into other cars – because my parents taught me to respect other peoples property.

If someone’s kid is that much of a fuckwit, then put the child lock on so they can’t open the door themselves.

Yeah, life’s so easy when you have all the answers and none of the experience. Child locks? Brilliant bit of lateral thinking, that. That’ll be a revelation in the parental forums. So now we’ve got an inspired way of keeping a cardoor closed in a car park. Walk me through the next bit when the door needs to be opened in a 50cm gap and a toddler extracted from a car seat. How does your tried-and-tested 100% fail-safe method unfold?

Angelite said :

“Um, you do realise that if it was a kind of rugby game, very few women and no children would get a seat in the lifeboats? And no physically disabled people either. Or old people. Or shorties for that matter.

The idea that the worth of someone%u2019s life is based on their ability to fight for themselves is profoundly offensive. But I%u2019d better shut up or I%u2019ll go all Christian on you.”

And the idea that men are somehow lesser than women and children is not offensive because…?

That’s your own twisted interpretation of what Poetix said. But if you want all bets off when the shit hits the fan, that’s fine. Just make your feelings known to your rescuers before they risk their lives; I’m betting you won’t.

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

People with kids are selfish

HA! Genius. Satiric gold. Seriously dude, send that material in to The Onion, they’ll go crazy for you.

I can’t take credit, I steal most of my material from this guy who’s genius includes comments like “herp derp” and “terk er jerbs” on every second thread here.

That guy’s material is the best.

Yeah. I love that guy.

Angelite said :

And the idea that men are somehow lesser than women and children is not offensive because…?

Its not offensive its a balance of risk vs reward which has been built into societies customs, the group that are typically the strongest take most risk. This is applied to many informal situations within everyday life yet when it is formally laid out such as parking with prams those who aren’t benefited by it seem to take offense. Since I arrived on these shores the term I often here that may apply to this anti-society attitude is ‘unaustralian’.

What I do find amazing is the self obsessed ‘everything is about me, and my convenience’ culture here in Canberra (most prevalent when you take to the road), I know I could return to whence I came however there does seem to be occasional benefits to be had here.

Ditto disabled spots. I just wish some people would have more thought but no it is all about me and my importance!

maxblues said :

What about Catholic priests with prams?

BYO.

“I’m guessing you’ve never seen the surprisingly forceful way a young child can push open a car door, given you want them mixing it up with you in confined spaces.”

Here’s something they had when I was a kid: child safety locks

“Um, you do realise that if it was a kind of rugby game, very few women and no children would get a seat in the lifeboats? And no physically disabled people either. Or old people. Or shorties for that matter.

The idea that the worth of someone’s life is based on their ability to fight for themselves is profoundly offensive. But I’d better shut up or I’ll go all Christian on you.”

And the idea that men are somehow lesser than women and children is not offensive because…?

maxblues said :

What about Catholic priests with prams?

Changing nappies is messy sh*t they prefer older children who can wipe their own arse.

What about Catholic priests with prams?

Jim Jones said :

chewy14 said :

People with kids are selfish

HA! Genius. Satiric gold. Seriously dude, send that material in to The Onion, they’ll go crazy for you.

I can’t take credit, I steal most of my material from this guy who’s genius includes comments like “herp derp” and “terk er jerbs” on every second thread here.

That guy’s material is the best.

Postalgeek said :

I’m guessing you’ve never seen the surprisingly forceful way a young child can push open a car door, given you want them mixing it up with you in confined spaces.

Personally, I would encourage families to dent each other’s doors, but that’s just me.

Slack parenting is not justification for special wider parking spots.

I used to be a kid, and I never slammed a car door into other cars – because my parents taught me to respect other peoples property.

If someone’s kid is that much of a fuckwit, then put the child lock on so they can’t open the door themselves.

Postalgeek said :

Angelite said :

Last I checked, becoming a parent was not only a choice, but also not a disability.

One of my friends recently broke her leg and has to use crutches. Now, THAT’S a disability.

When they create special, widened, designated parking spaces near the door for people without children, then I’ll stop complaining about the ones for people with children/prams.

I’m guessing you’ve never seen the surprisingly forceful way a young child can push open a car door, given you want them mixing it up with you in confined spaces.

Personally, I would encourage families to dent each other’s doors, but that’s just me.

Didn’t you read devils advocates posts? Apparently that’s called vandalism.

Surely ‘Grandparents with grandkids’ car places should be closer to the shops than ‘parents with prams’. Where in Canberra do you buy this delicious sounding duck pizza?… not that we can afford it since the electricity bills have gone up…yesterday we had to solar roast the grand kid’s pet rabbit…

Angelite said :

“Reading through the replies on here makes me wonder what RA readers take on %u2018women and children first%u2019 given a sinking ship scenario%u2026”

Whoever gets to the life boats first gets saved. I’m a woman, but I think men deserve to live to.

Well, not much point getting there first if you’re a woman and it’s everyone for themselves, because someone will just grab you, punch you in the face when you object, and yank you by the hair out of your spot in the life boat. It’s not just who’s first, but who’s strongest.

chewy14 said :

People with kids are selfish

HA! Genius. Satiric gold. Seriously dude, send that material in to The Onion, they’ll go crazy for you.

Angelite said :

“Reading through the replies on here makes me wonder what RA readers take on %u2018women and children first%u2019 given a sinking ship scenario%u2026”

Whoever gets to the life boats first gets saved. I’m a woman, but I think men deserve to live to.

Um, you do realise that if it was a kind of rugby game, very few women and no children would get a seat in the lifeboats? And no physically disabled people either. Or old people. Or shorties for that matter.

The idea that the worth of someone’s life is based on their ability to fight for themselves is profoundly offensive. But I’d better shut up or I’ll go all Christian on you.

Angelite said :

Last I checked, becoming a parent was not only a choice, but also not a disability.

One of my friends recently broke her leg and has to use crutches. Now, THAT’S a disability.

When they create special, widened, designated parking spaces near the door for people without children, then I’ll stop complaining about the ones for people with children/prams.

I’m guessing you’ve never seen the surprisingly forceful way a young child can push open a car door, given you want them mixing it up with you in confined spaces.

Personally, I would encourage families to dent each other’s doors, but that’s just me.

“Reading through the replies on here makes me wonder what RA readers take on ‘women and children first’ given a sinking ship scenario…”

Whoever gets to the life boats first gets saved. I’m a woman, but I think men deserve to live to.

Reading through the replies on here makes me wonder what RA readers take on ‘women and children first’ given a sinking ship scenario…

I’m sure in line with many responses an adequate take on this is that why should these women and children be given beneficial treatment over me, given that I pay taxes and they probably sit around breeding/beeing bred to hoard child benefit payments. I mean how dare they reserve a few parking spaces for these breeders, the exercise i get from parking an extra 10m from the shops hinders my qualification for a disabled space.

Personally as a non breeding tax paying male who obtains no benefits I have no issue with these spaces if they make someones life that little bit easier, its very simple for me to park up and walk into the shops without stressing over the injusticises that are perpetuated by these folk with underlings. Seriously this annoys people? How do you make it to the shops without having a breakdown?

Jim Jones said :

But wouldn’t it have been so much simpler just to say “I’m a self-absorbed, self-entitled jerkwad and everyone else can go get stuffed”?

What a great description of a growing number of parents. Fantastic stuff.

devils_advocate said :

b) People drive too fast in carparks, this is true. But everyone is at risk from this, not just parents/children, so why should they get special treatment?

Children would be at more risk, as they are generally smaller and often less predictable than grown-ups.

poetix said :

astrojax said :

cripes, 105 responses to this topic? i saw a duck once. and i got charged five dollars for a pizza…

What was the bill for the duck?

Ever tried putting a duck into pizza? talk about getting into a flap!

Last I checked, becoming a parent was not only a choice, but also not a disability.

One of my friends recently broke her leg and has to use crutches. Now, THAT’S a disability.

When they create special, widened, designated parking spaces near the door for people without children, then I’ll stop complaining about the ones for people with children/prams.

btw, this thread should be mully-barred – he’d have never parked illegally…

poetix said :

astrojax said :

cripes, 105 responses to this topic? i saw a duck once. and i got charged five dollars for a pizza…

What was the bill for the duck?

Thank you thank you, I’m here till thursday, try the veal

astrojax said :

cripes, 105 responses to this topic? i saw a duck once. and i got charged five dollars for a pizza…

What was the bill for the duck?

devils_advocate said :

Postalgeek said :

PWP spots aren’t a necessity, any more than queues are a necessity, or holding a door open for someone with their arms full is a necessity. It is a courtesy to make life easier, for people responsible for not just a baby, but often toddlers on the move with limited understanding and zero situational awareness.

Those who find such courtesies an imposition on society’s fittest and finest, well, you’ll probably feel that way right up to the point life rips you a new arsehole and renders you vulnerable, and then you’ll have a squeal and a whole new respect for compassion.

And everyone will rendered vulnerable sooner or later, unless they have access to the fountain of youth.

And if we’re going to be proponents of economic rationalism when it comes to young families, we need to look to the other end of the spectrum, which everyone here is heading towards, and where there is a larger, more expensive, and growing problem – an ageing population. There’s a whole range of compassionate and dispassionate ways of dealing with old people who don’t have a family to support them. I guess it depends on what lessons the succeeding generations are taught as to what extent they decide to rationalise the solution.

I realise this has turned into a broader social debate, but to bring it back on topic:
a) if it’s really about the accessibility issues of a wider space, rather than the convenience of parking closer to the shops, then there’s a simple solution – put the wider spaces at the far end of the carpark, with a pedestrian walkway to the shops. If the accessibility issue is truly the important one – not the convenience – then this will result in no decrease in either utilisation or utility.
b) People drive too fast in carparks, this is true. But everyone is at risk from this, not just parents/children, so why should they get special treatment? Without having seen the accident stats in carparks, I understand that people suffer disutility from having the living s–t scared out of them (either on foot, or trying to reverse out of a spot). Solution to this is impose and policy a speed limit. I.e. address the problem itself, not just selectively reduce the harm.
I reckon a car travelling at 20kph in a carpark is more dangerous than a car doing 150kph on the parkway.

That’s an incredibly ornate way of arguing that it’s completely acceptable for people to park in carparks specifically designated for others.

I’m really proud of your “why should children be spared the threat of being run over in carparks; that’s really unfair” angle (good job!)

But wouldn’t it have been so much simpler just to say “I’m a self-absorbed, self-entitled jerkwad and everyone else can go get stuffed”?

cripes, 105 responses to this topic? i saw a duck once. and i got charged five dollars for a pizza…

aceofspades said :

Monomyth said :

Pitchka said :

Before i was a parent with a pram, i never noticed how many dead s***s parked there purely for convenience, as these spots are very close to major entrances.

Im not know for being overly loud (insert sarcastic emotican here), and i have no issue telling anyone who has just parked their car in said spot, on the top of my lungs, so others in the area can hear just how inconsiderate these f**ks are. And if they are of the ‘larger size’, ill also advise them that parking away from the entrance may be of some benefit to them.

Its almost as bad as peope parking on surburban streets to save money on parking, slash their tyres i say!

Maybe you could just go about your day without shoving your opinion in everybody’s faces as loud as you possibly can? It just makes you look like a squawking idiot. Hopefully someone slashes *your* tyres for being a busy-body.

I don’t have children and I don’t park in those spots, but do I give a tinker’s cuss if someone does? No way. Disabled spots, are different, but to penalise someone for not breeding is a bit rich. Why don’t you find a hobby? And no, I don’t mean having more babies.

+1

If only we knew were loud mouth Pitchkas car was, we could sell tickets for such an event. Or better still let all the tyres down and leave behind a bicycle pump. After that he would be so out of breath to tell anybody anything “on the top of his lungs”.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-siP5m0712_Q/TXqLeD7WtnI/AAAAAAAAADI/whOqFeWcmWk/cry-baby.jpg

Monomyth said :

Pitchka said :

Before i was a parent with a pram, i never noticed how many dead s***s parked there purely for convenience, as these spots are very close to major entrances.

Im not know for being overly loud (insert sarcastic emotican here), and i have no issue telling anyone who has just parked their car in said spot, on the top of my lungs, so others in the area can hear just how inconsiderate these f**ks are. And if they are of the ‘larger size’, ill also advise them that parking away from the entrance may be of some benefit to them.

Its almost as bad as peope parking on surburban streets to save money on parking, slash their tyres i say!

Maybe you could just go about your day without shoving your opinion in everybody’s faces as loud as you possibly can? It just makes you look like a squawking idiot. Hopefully someone slashes *your* tyres for being a busy-body.

I don’t have children and I don’t park in those spots, but do I give a tinker’s cuss if someone does? No way. Disabled spots, are different, but to penalise someone for not breeding is a bit rich. Why don’t you find a hobby? And no, I don’t mean having more babies.

+1

If only we knew were loud mouth Pitchkas car was, we could sell tickets for such an event. Or better still let all the tyres down and leave behind a bicycle pump. After that he would be so out of breath to tell anybody anything “on the top of his lungs”.

Pitchka said :

Before i was a parent with a pram, i never noticed how many dead s***s parked there purely for convenience, as these spots are very close to major entrances.

Im not know for being overly loud (insert sarcastic emotican here), and i have no issue telling anyone who has just parked their car in said spot, on the top of my lungs, so others in the area can hear just how inconsiderate these f**ks are. And if they are of the ‘larger size’, ill also advise them that parking away from the entrance may be of some benefit to them.

Its almost as bad as peope parking on surburban streets to save money on parking, slash their tyres i say!

Maybe you could just go about your day without shoving your opinion in everybody’s faces as loud as you possibly can? It just makes you look like a squawking idiot. Hopefully someone slashes *your* tyres for being a busy-body.

I don’t have children and I don’t park in those spots, but do I give a tinker’s cuss if someone does? No way. Disabled spots, are different, but to penalise someone for not breeding is a bit rich. Why don’t you find a hobby? And no, I don’t mean having more babies.

Postalgeek said :

PWP spots aren’t a necessity, any more than queues are a necessity, or holding a door open for someone with their arms full is a necessity. It is a courtesy to make life easier, for people responsible for not just a baby, but often toddlers on the move with limited understanding and zero situational awareness.

Those who find such courtesies an imposition on society’s fittest and finest, well, you’ll probably feel that way right up to the point life rips you a new arsehole and renders you vulnerable, and then you’ll have a squeal and a whole new respect for compassion.

And everyone will rendered vulnerable sooner or later, unless they have access to the fountain of youth.

And if we’re going to be proponents of economic rationalism when it comes to young families, we need to look to the other end of the spectrum, which everyone here is heading towards, and where there is a larger, more expensive, and growing problem – an ageing population. There’s a whole range of compassionate and dispassionate ways of dealing with old people who don’t have a family to support them. I guess it depends on what lessons the succeeding generations are taught as to what extent they decide to rationalise the solution.

I realise this has turned into a broader social debate, but to bring it back on topic:
a) if it’s really about the accessibility issues of a wider space, rather than the convenience of parking closer to the shops, then there’s a simple solution – put the wider spaces at the far end of the carpark, with a pedestrian walkway to the shops. If the accessibility issue is truly the important one – not the convenience – then this will result in no decrease in either utilisation or utility.
b) People drive too fast in carparks, this is true. But everyone is at risk from this, not just parents/children, so why should they get special treatment? Without having seen the accident stats in carparks, I understand that people suffer disutility from having the living s–t scared out of them (either on foot, or trying to reverse out of a spot). Solution to this is impose and policy a speed limit. I.e. address the problem itself, not just selectively reduce the harm.
I reckon a car travelling at 20kph in a carpark is more dangerous than a car doing 150kph on the parkway.

Mysteryman said :

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

Interesting. My parents didn’t have these problems when my siblings and I were babies/tolders/children. They managed to go park a car, go shopping, pack the car, and leave the carpark without half the drama you are describing.

But then, we were raised in a time where parents taught their childrens different values – respect, manners, appropriate behaviour, etc.

[b]The world was a bloody awful place for all sorts of reasons in the past. Just because not all of us died of something is no reason to keep doing it.[/b]

And older even than you are the writings of antiquity bemoaning the youth of their era.

The world is a bloody awful place right now. What has that got to do with what I said? And how the does teaching manners and acceptable behaviour relate to all of us dying of something? Or are you just having at moan about the idea that the parenting of the current generation may leave a lot to be desired?

I think the world is a fantastic place right now. A bit too much whinging but that aside, I’m so glad I’m alive…cue Def Leppard

PWP spots aren’t a necessity, any more than queues are a necessity, or holding a door open for someone with their arms full is a necessity. It is a courtesy to make life easier, for people responsible for not just a baby, but often toddlers on the move with limited understanding and zero situational awareness.

Those who find such courtesies an imposition on society’s fittest and finest, well, you’ll probably feel that way right up to the point life rips you a new arsehole and renders you vulnerable, and then you’ll have a squeal and a whole new respect for compassion. And everyone will rendered vulnerable sooner or later, unless they have access to the fountain of youth.

And if we’re going to be proponents of economic rationalism when it comes to young families, we need to look to the other end of the spectrum, which everyone here is heading towards, and where there is a larger, more expensive, and growing problem – an ageing population. There’s a whole range of compassionate and dispassionate ways of dealing with old people who don’t have a family to support them. I guess it depends on what lessons the succeeding generations are taught as to what extent they decide to rationalise the solution.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

But then, we were raised in a time where parents taught their childrens different values – respect, manners, appropriate behaviour, etc.

Go f*** yourself!

QFT

Mysteryman said :

But then, we were raised in a time where parents taught their childrens different values – respect, manners, appropriate behaviour, etc.

Go f*** yourself!

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

The world is a bloody awful place right now. What has that got to do with what I said? And how the does teaching manners and acceptable behaviour relate to all of us dying of something? Or are you just having at moan about the idea that the parenting of the current generation may leave a lot to be desired?

You’re an idiot profoundly ignorant of history.

There are more people leading better lives now than at any time in recorded history.

There are issues, but solutions are achievable. That’s more than could ever have been said.

Your golden past was a blood horrible place and we’re well off out of it.

QFT

Mysteryman said :

The world is a bloody awful place right now. What has that got to do with what I said? And how the does teaching manners and acceptable behaviour relate to all of us dying of something? Or are you just having at moan about the idea that the parenting of the current generation may leave a lot to be desired?

You’re an idiot profoundly ignorant of history.

There are more people leading better lives now than at any time in recorded history.

There are issues, but solutions are achievable. That’s more than could ever have been said.

Your golden past was a blood horrible place and we’re well off out of it.

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

Interesting. My parents didn’t have these problems when my siblings and I were babies/tolders/children. They managed to go park a car, go shopping, pack the car, and leave the carpark without half the drama you are describing.

But then, we were raised in a time where parents taught their childrens different values – respect, manners, appropriate behaviour, etc.

[b]The world was a bloody awful place for all sorts of reasons in the past. Just because not all of us died of something is no reason to keep doing it.[/b]

And older even than you are the writings of antiquity bemoaning the youth of their era.

The world is a bloody awful place right now. What has that got to do with what I said? And how the does teaching manners and acceptable behaviour relate to all of us dying of something? Or are you just having at moan about the idea that the parenting of the current generation may leave a lot to be desired?

Mysteryman said :

Interesting. My parents didn’t have these problems when my siblings and I were babies/tolders/children. They managed to go park a car, go shopping, pack the car, and leave the carpark without half the drama you are describing.

But then, we were raised in a time where parents taught their childrens different values – respect, manners, appropriate behaviour, etc.

The world was a bloody awful place for all sorts of reasons in the past. Just because not all of us died of something is no reason to keep doing it.

And older even than you are the writings of antiquity bemoaning the youth of their era.

sepi said :

People with prams are doing well to get out of the house some days. They need all the help they can get. And they do tend to also hang around malls spending money.

Person without pram: park at the back and stroll to shops and back. Noice.

Person with pram/kids/babies trying to get back to car with couple of small bags of shopping:
Move at snail’s pace thru carpark with screaming toddler trying to sit on the ground and preschooler pushing the pram – mostly not towards other people or fast moving cars. Drop some shopping – leave it there – no hands to pick it up. Open door and shove screaming toddler in without trapping flailing body parts, go around to other passenger door, find you can’t open it wide enough as too close to next car. Instruct preschooler to mind baby in pram, while traffic streams by – no room next to car for pram. Reef toddler out of car again, put him in front seat as can’t be trusted near cars, reach across length of back seat to dump yelling baby in to capsule. Get big one in telling her to get in her seat and put on her straps, shut door, go back around to see pram rolling gently towards row of car, retrieve and put in boot. Strap/buckle oldest in, realise toddler is still in front, grab him and put in third car seat. I’ve forgotten to do up big strap on little one’s rear facing seat, put back out reaching from front seat to tighten that, go back to big one to give her the drink she’s dropped/thrown on the floor and is yelling about, confiscate drink from toddler who is feeding it to dolly (all over car) go back to boot, go back to drivers seat, get in put own seatbelt on, start car, realise parking exit ticket is in boot, get out, go back to boot, give dirty look to twit waiting impatiently for car spot, pray we get out of carpark within designated time period after paying prior to exit. Vow never to shop again.

Interesting. My parents didn’t have these problems when my siblings and I were babies/tolders/children. They managed to go park a car, go shopping, pack the car, and leave the carpark without half the drama you are describing.

But then, we were raised in a time where parents taught their childrens different values – respect, manners, appropriate behaviour, etc.

Pitchka said :

Brianna said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I’m a fat person with a disabled permit. Part of the reason I’m fat is due to my physical disability. Yes, part of it is that I don’t eat the right food all the time. Part of it is that I don’t exercise enough. (gee, maybe that’s because I’m physically disabled and it f*cking hurts heaps) but hey……I don’t have the disabled permit because I’m fat. I have it because I am disabled by other issues. If I need to use a parents with prams space because a disabled space isn’t available, then I will.

Try having a go at me and I will cut you down so hard and fast (verbally) you’ll be left wondering who hit you.l

The chances of us running into one another is slim, I park on the Corrina St side of Westfield, you no doubt park on the Police Station side, its closer to the food court.

BOOOOOM!

Brianna said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I’m a fat person with a disabled permit. Part of the reason I’m fat is due to my physical disability. Yes, part of it is that I don’t eat the right food all the time. Part of it is that I don’t exercise enough. (gee, maybe that’s because I’m physically disabled and it f*cking hurts heaps) but hey……I don’t have the disabled permit because I’m fat. I have it because I am disabled by other issues. If I need to use a parents with prams space because a disabled space isn’t available, then I will.

Try having a go at me and I will cut you down so hard and fast (verbally) you’ll be left wondering who hit you.l

The chances of us running into one another is slim, I park on the Corrina St side of Westfield, you no doubt park on the Police Station side, its closer to the food court.

It’s a shopping centre gimmick and not a real necessity.

People with children or prams are not disabled and are in no way any different from anyone else. The idea that they are “special” and cannot walk the distance from a “normal” car space to a shopping centre doorway is ridiculous.

Get rid of these spaces and change them to disabled car spaces instead (at least then the people using them actually have a real need to park closer to doorways).

sepi said :

People with prams are doing well to get out of the house some days. They need all the help they can get. And they do tend to also hang around malls spending money.

Person without pram: park at the back and stroll to shops and back. Noice.

Person with pram/kids/babies trying to get back to car with couple of small bags of shopping:
Move at snail’s pace thru carpark with screaming toddler trying to sit on the ground and preschooler pushing the pram – mostly not towards other people or fast moving cars. Drop some shopping – leave it there – no hands to pick it up. Open door and shove screaming toddler in without trapping flailing body parts, go around to other passenger door, find you can’t open it wide enough as too close to next car. Instruct preschooler to mind baby in pram, while traffic streams by – no room next to car for pram. Reef toddler out of car again, put him in front seat as can’t be trusted near cars, reach across length of back seat to dump yelling baby in to capsule. Get big one in telling her to get in her seat and put on her straps, shut door, go back around to see pram rolling gently towards row of car, retrieve and put in boot. Strap/buckle oldest in, realise toddler is still in front, grab him and put in third car seat. I’ve forgotten to do up big strap on little one’s rear facing seat, put back out reaching from front seat to tighten that, go back to big one to give her the drink she’s dropped/thrown on the floor and is yelling about, confiscate drink from toddler who is feeding it to dolly (all over car) go back to boot, go back to drivers seat, get in put own seatbelt on, start car, realise parking exit ticket is in boot, get out, go back to boot, give dirty look to twit waiting impatiently for car spot, pray we get out of carpark within designated time period after paying prior to exit. Vow never to shop again.

O, woe is me…

Maybe you should have clicked here before you decided to pump too many out in too short a time.

seanneko said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

devils_advocate said :

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

Children are in abundant supply. You are not doing me or anybody else a favour by having them. Children are a lifestyle choice by parents. The benefits are entirely private, an increasing number of the costs are externalised.

It may make parents feel good to pretend they are doing it to advance the welfare of society, but it doesn’t make is so.

I like to externalise costs as much as the next guy, the difference is I don’t pretend I’m doing anyone any favours.

It does not apear that you have the slightest idea about society and any impacts anything may have on it.

This country is already overpopulated, not to mention the planet.

We don’t have the transport infrastructure, or the housing, or the water, or the electricity, or anything else to sustain the current population growth that we have.

So what are these impacts on society that less children will have? Nobody is saying stop having kids completely. It’s pretty obvious what will happen then (nobody to pay our pension when we’re old, for starters). But couples who have several children is just sheer selfishness.

If I try to redirect the strange change of subject in this thread back to the original issue, wouldn’t even having one child allow a person (sorry, a ‘parent’!) to have a pram, and thus be able to use the elitest super-pram parking?
Seriously, they should just get rid of these (and the seniors spots D_A also hates) so certain members of the community don’t get their knickers in a knot because they feel they are missing out on something wonderful in life! Personally, if I ever have kids, I wouldn’t use one of these spaces, simply to avoid these sad arguments that end up discussing limiting kids in a China-style fashion!
BTW, you do realise that the Aus TFR has been under replacement rate for quite some time, don’t you? And it’s immigration (of people such as D_A’s much-loved ‘fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas that are ready to work and pay taxes’) that is mainly responsible for the increase in our population?!
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/3301.0
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mediareleasesbytitle/1CC42D4421AAC567CA2568A9001362D1?OpenDocument
So if you think the Aus popn is too big, why are you so p1ssed at births?
Anyway, back on the OP topic, maybe they should just change these spots to ‘Parents with prams, or anyone without a pram who thinks they are being short changed in life and wants to make a point to pram owners’! Hahahahaha! There, happy? 🙂

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I’m a fat person with a disabled permit. Part of the reason I’m fat is due to my physical disability. Yes, part of it is that I don’t eat the right food all the time. Part of it is that I don’t exercise enough. (gee, maybe that’s because I’m physically disabled and it f*cking hurts heaps) but hey……I don’t have the disabled permit because I’m fat. I have it because I am disabled by other issues. If I need to use a parents with prams space because a disabled space isn’t available, then I will. Try having a go at me and I will cut you down so hard and fast (verbally) you’ll be left wondering who hit you.l

rosscoact said :

poetix said :

Some people in this thread speak of children as if they weren’t human beings. Or as if having children (oneself, or at least in one’s family or community) were not a vital part of being human. Of course, allowances and tax are a different issue, but to suggest that children aren’t worthwhile in and of themselves is very sad.

But they are stupid and unworthy of being called trolls

Even trolls arent as stupid as they are.

poetix said :

Some people in this thread speak of children as if they weren’t human beings. Or as if having children (oneself, or at least in one’s family or community) were not a vital part of being human. Of course, allowances and tax are a different issue, but to suggest that children aren’t worthwhile in and of themselves is very sad.

But they are stupid and unworthy of being called trolls

poetix said :

but to suggest that children aren’t worthwhile in and of themselves is very sad.

The Australian article I mentioned (and this link seems to open it up without paywall issues:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/a-habit-we-need-to-kick/story-e6frg6z6-1226503430763
)
mentions an academic saying that handouts and entitlements for having children have unforeseen effects on peoples’ attitudes and actions. I think if you step back from being someone who has kids and likes them very much, and looks at this whole Family thing that has been drummed since Howard, a different view starts to take shape.

It used to be that families were part of a whole, of society made up of all sorts of people. Now “Family” means a whole lot of other things, and I think it’s having an effect. Commodifying kids, families, parents maybe. Building a sense of entitlement in some, rather than focussing on how they fit into society as a whole, maybe, and a sense of resentment in others.

I think it’s quite insidious and destructive.

Some people in this thread speak of children as if they weren’t human beings. Or as if having children (oneself, or at least in one’s family or community) were not a vital part of being human. Of course, allowances and tax are a different issue, but to suggest that children aren’t worthwhile in and of themselves is very sad.

devils_advocate said :

Children are in abundant supply. You are not doing me or anybody else a favour by having them. Children are a lifestyle choice by parents. The benefits are entirely private, an increasing number of the costs are externalised.

And it’s costing the country a fortune. I sometimes wonder if we’re actually paying people to have children (why?), or compensating them for their ruined lives. There’s certainly a prevalent view in some family circles that having children must not impact on a couples’ lifestyle, and to prevent this, the taxpayer must stump up.

But the families are taxpayers too, I hear a cry from the back. No, actually, variously 43% to 47% of “working families” (normal people, not the stereotypical welfare-dependant single mums and dolies) pay no tax, because they recoup more in Family Benefits than they pay in tax. Yes, really.

Type or paste A Habit We Need To Kick into google, and follow the first hit which is a link to a recent article in The Australian (this circumvents the paywall). A fact-filled article spelling out the costs of family-based welfare. Top of the list is Family Tax A, costing $13.97 BILLION per year. There’s some entitlements there I hadn’t even heard of.

seanneko said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

devils_advocate said :

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

Children are in abundant supply. You are not doing me or anybody else a favour by having them. Children are a lifestyle choice by parents. The benefits are entirely private, an increasing number of the costs are externalised.

It may make parents feel good to pretend they are doing it to advance the welfare of society, but it doesn’t make is so.

I like to externalise costs as much as the next guy, the difference is I don’t pretend I’m doing anyone any favours.

It does not apear that you have the slightest idea about society and any impacts anything may have on it.

This country is already overpopulated, not to mention the planet.

We don’t have the transport infrastructure, or the housing, or the water, or the electricity, or anything else to sustain the current population growth that we have.

So what are these impacts on society that less children will have? Nobody is saying stop having kids completely. It’s pretty obvious what will happen then (nobody to pay our pension when we’re old, for starters). But couples who have several children is just sheer selfishness.

How man is several?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

devils_advocate said :

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

Children are in abundant supply. You are not doing me or anybody else a favour by having them. Children are a lifestyle choice by parents. The benefits are entirely private, an increasing number of the costs are externalised.

It may make parents feel good to pretend they are doing it to advance the welfare of society, but it doesn’t make is so.

I like to externalise costs as much as the next guy, the difference is I don’t pretend I’m doing anyone any favours.

It does not apear that you have the slightest idea about society and any impacts anything may have on it.

This country is already overpopulated, not to mention the planet.

We don’t have the transport infrastructure, or the housing, or the water, or the electricity, or anything else to sustain the current population growth that we have.

So what are these impacts on society that less children will have? Nobody is saying stop having kids completely. It’s pretty obvious what will happen then (nobody to pay our pension when we’re old, for starters). But couples who have several children is just sheer selfishness.

devils_advocate said :

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

Children are in abundant supply. You are not doing me or anybody else a favour by having them. Children are a lifestyle choice by parents. The benefits are entirely private, an increasing number of the costs are externalised.

It may make parents feel good to pretend they are doing it to advance the welfare of society, but it doesn’t make is so.

I like to externalise costs as much as the next guy, the difference is I don’t pretend I’m doing anyone any favours.

It does not apear that you have the slightest idea about society and any impacts anything may have on it.

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

Children are in abundant supply. You are not doing me or anybody else a favour by having them. Children are a lifestyle choice by parents. The benefits are entirely private, an increasing number of the costs are externalised.

It may make parents feel good to pretend they are doing it to advance the welfare of society, but it doesn’t make is so.

I like to externalise costs as much as the next guy, the difference is I don’t pretend I’m doing anyone any favours.

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

Yes, a truly marvellous and self-deprecating post. Now that devil advocate has been born and has been raised to adulthood, we can finally outsource procreation, child rearing, and all the social obligations that come with it. What a relief. I thought his father would never come.

dpm said :

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

Can we import them from the same place we get the soylent green?

devils_advocate said :

….We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes….

In all my time on RA, this is perhaps the most amazingly impressive comment I have ever seen!
Yes! Let’s sterilise the Aus. adult popn and just import ‘fully grown, healthy labour units’ when we get old and need the next generation to look after us and keep the country going!
Hahahaha! Absolute classic!

schmeah said :

I’d have more sympathy if half the parents with prams I saw getting about didn’t have a car the size of Texas .. impossible for anyone, pram or not, get in or out of while staying within the yellow lines and not hitting bollards.

But but… They waited until they were 45 to have children? How dare you suggest that someone with a toddler should be physically capable of bending their back to pick them up from a sedan!?

Seriously though, what a non issue. The people worked up about parents with pram parking must be the same idiots that drive around in circles trying to get a spot as close to the door as possible, while I park in the back row and walk into the centre in half the time.

Charlie57 said :

…. you just don’t want anything to do with them for the first 16-18 years?

Sounds like heaven.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

SHHHHHHH DON’T GIVE THIS GEM OF A SPOT AWAY!!!

LOL sorry. I figured there’s plenty of room there for everyone. My other secret spots around town, however, I’m keeping to myself!

devils_advocate said :

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

I concede that they aren’t _required_ for safety. I do think they enhance safety – would you agree, or do you contend that they are 100% a convenience thing?

Did you grow up wearing seatbelts? Did your parents? Do you wear one now? Sometimes, we introduce new safety concepts (and new concepts in general) that weren’t around in previous generations. That doesn’t mean we are getting soft, or that the previous generations worked miracles by surviving, it just means that someone had a new idea.

devils_advocate said :

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow. If you are importing fully grown people in to your society, you realise that they were once children too? You realise that your society still requires children to be born, you just don’t want anything to do with them for the first 16-18 years?

Wow.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

schmeah said :

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Excellent point … (I will digress a bit) .. while I’m not begrudging anyone the right to have children, it does bother me that when we;re told the baby bonus is for, amongst other reasons, boosting productivity via population .. why do we persist in making adoption so freaking impossible. People spend years, and thousands of dollars in chasing red tape and meeting eligibility just to be able to adopt a child from a neglectful/abusive Australian family or from a life in an orphanage overseas; wouldn’t these children make excellent citizens too if they were given every opportunity to excel in the right environment? Instead citizens who willy-nilly pump a couple out, nearly all with the best intentions of course, are given a couple of grand each time. The message seems to be take the hand-out no matter what .. the rest of you get in line with the hundreds of others who will wait years for a much wanted baby. Although you talk about ‘fully grown people’ .. maybe my point is relevant still.

Noting this isn’t a policy forum .. end spray.

This I am down with. Completely agree.

I agree about the adoption thing, but I’d like to point out that adopters get the baby bonus too and paid parental leave and all the goodies those who have birthed naturally get ( and I like that they do, I wouldn’t have it any other way).
Adoption from places such a Vietnam are quite good to adopt from as our country allows those children, also children from Korea, but you have to be very wealthy to adopt from Korea.

I happen to know all this because I was told I could not have babies of my own….. It just do happens that I found out later that they were wrong as I was 27 weeks pregnant

having kids is an option, being disabled (generally) isn’t.

niknak said :

#firstworldproblem

Feel free to move to the 3rd world, so you don’t have to suffer through these issues any longer.

#firstworldproblem

schmeah said :

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Excellent point … (I will digress a bit) .. while I’m not begrudging anyone the right to have children, it does bother me that when we;re told the baby bonus is for, amongst other reasons, boosting productivity via population .. why do we persist in making adoption so freaking impossible. People spend years, and thousands of dollars in chasing red tape and meeting eligibility just to be able to adopt a child from a neglectful/abusive Australian family or from a life in an orphanage overseas; wouldn’t these children make excellent citizens too if they were given every opportunity to excel in the right environment? Instead citizens who willy-nilly pump a couple out, nearly all with the best intentions of course, are given a couple of grand each time. The message seems to be take the hand-out no matter what .. the rest of you get in line with the hundreds of others who will wait years for a much wanted baby. Although you talk about ‘fully grown people’ .. maybe my point is relevant still.

Noting this isn’t a policy forum .. end spray.

This I am down with. Completely agree.

Evil_Kitten said :

devils_advocate said :

Pitchka said :

You make a great point, i digress. From now on, spots reserved for Senior Citizens are no longer for the elderly. Here i come!!!! And if anyone says anything, ill be sure to remind them that being old does not entitle you to special parking privelages, i should not be inconvenienced.

I wasn’t aware there were spots reserved for senior citizens per se. I was aware that being old often exposes people to conditions that render them disabled (i.e. many users of disabled spots happen to be elderly) but I wasn’t aware people were getting special spots based purely on their age. I was about to ask how such a thing could be policed, but suppose people like the OP, who were checking for anchor points on the alfa, would take it upon themselves to check the ID of anyone getting out of a car that didn’t bear the requisite physical hallmarks of such advanced aged (Given I didn’t know these spots existed, I obviously don’t know what that age is).

But in any case, if an elderly person had mobility issues, this would be covered under the disability scheme.

In that basis, since mobility challenged individuals are already catered for, I agree that there should not be parking reserved for seniors who are otherwise mobile, i.e. based purely on the fact they are seniors.

The only place I have seen them is in the underground car park at Manuka under Coles. Perhaps there’s a lot of oldies around Manuka/Red Hill.

As for the PWP, I won’t park in them because I like to do the right thing, but I would suggest that if parents really need the extra room and safety that there are always alternatives, this is Canberra after all. For example, at Woden, park in the original multi story car park up the top. Half the spots are always empty. Enter via David Jones. I would say there is a similar alternative at most shopping centres. It’s not like you’re trying to park on George Street in Sydney.

SHHHHHHH DON’T GIVE THIS GEM OF A SPOT AWAY!!!

I cannot believe the amount of hate there seems to be against people who have kids on here. What a bitter view on life you people must have.

I park in PWP spots when available (I have a 4 yo and 2yo) due to the fact I feel safe in the knowledge that my 2 yo can sit in the pram at the side of the car while my 4yo gets in and I buckle him up, rather than leaving the pram at the rear of the car to possibly get hit by someone driving too close or on their mobile phone and not watching properly.

I always try to park next to an empty spot in normal width carparks for a bit more room. I don’t mind walking the extra amount its more about having the room to get kids/shopping/pram in safely.

Its just inconsiderate and selfish if you park in one of these spots without needing the extra space for a reason. Imagine if we all just parked wherever we want – do you really have to have the threat of being booked to stop doing it or would these people just park where ever they like regardless anyway?

Just drive up onto the sidewalk in front of woolies if you are truly that lazy and have a such a disregard for anyone but you.

So much for the ‘it takes a village to raise a child’.

I’ve observed in the past that only two types of people park in the Parents With Prams spots: those wrangling children, and jerks. Being that jerks outnumber everyone else in the population by a large margin, this means that most people parking there are jerks, and so to a first approximation such spots are essentially Reserved Jerk Parking.

I love parents with prams spots. I can park right next to the door while everyone else circles around looking for another spot.

We never had them when I was a kid (and I’m only in my 20s), nor did we have things like 40km/h school zones, but there was obviously such a huge massacre of children that we had to bring it all in.

I propose using cotton wool rather than concrete in new car parks. If anyone trips over, they’re less likely to hurt themselves.

I rarely even bother trying to try to park in those parents car parks myself, I just try and get any car park I can at most shopping centres and just walk with the pram the rest of the way. I prefer to save those for the infirm or lazy. Saying that, I think you’re a scumbag if you park there if you don’t have kids with you or are picking them up. I bet the same oxygen thieves park in Disabled carparks.

esp said :

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

Will you marry me ?

Do I get a look in, you harlot? 🙂

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

Also more drive-through bottle shops. Does the one in hawker still exist?

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

Will you marry me ?

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Excellent point … (I will digress a bit) .. while I’m not begrudging anyone the right to have children, it does bother me that when we;re told the baby bonus is for, amongst other reasons, boosting productivity via population .. why do we persist in making adoption so freaking impossible. People spend years, and thousands of dollars in chasing red tape and meeting eligibility just to be able to adopt a child from a neglectful/abusive Australian family or from a life in an orphanage overseas; wouldn’t these children make excellent citizens too if they were given every opportunity to excel in the right environment? Instead citizens who willy-nilly pump a couple out, nearly all with the best intentions of course, are given a couple of grand each time. The message seems to be take the hand-out no matter what .. the rest of you get in line with the hundreds of others who will wait years for a much wanted baby. Although you talk about ‘fully grown people’ .. maybe my point is relevant still.

Noting this isn’t a policy forum .. end spray.

I’d have more sympathy if half the parents with prams I saw getting about didn’t have a car the size of Texas .. impossible for anyone, pram or not, get in or out of while staying within the yellow lines and not hitting bollards.

I’m not calling you names but honestly, aren’t all the tax payer hand-outs enough already without a designated car space.

gazket said :

We need Man buying beer parking too.

In response to the brainless “Baby on board” signs I am tempted to make a “Six cartons of stubbies on board. You hit, you pay” sign.

devils_advocate said :

Pitchka said :

You make a great point, i digress. From now on, spots reserved for Senior Citizens are no longer for the elderly. Here i come!!!! And if anyone says anything, ill be sure to remind them that being old does not entitle you to special parking privelages, i should not be inconvenienced.

I wasn’t aware there were spots reserved for senior citizens per se. I was aware that being old often exposes people to conditions that render them disabled (i.e. many users of disabled spots happen to be elderly) but I wasn’t aware people were getting special spots based purely on their age. I was about to ask how such a thing could be policed, but suppose people like the OP, who were checking for anchor points on the alfa, would take it upon themselves to check the ID of anyone getting out of a car that didn’t bear the requisite physical hallmarks of such advanced aged (Given I didn’t know these spots existed, I obviously don’t know what that age is).

But in any case, if an elderly person had mobility issues, this would be covered under the disability scheme.

In that basis, since mobility challenged individuals are already catered for, I agree that there should not be parking reserved for seniors who are otherwise mobile, i.e. based purely on the fact they are seniors.

The only place I have seen them is in the underground car park at Manuka under Coles. Perhaps there’s a lot of oldies around Manuka/Red Hill.

As for the PWP, I won’t park in them because I like to do the right thing, but I would suggest that if parents really need the extra room and safety that there are always alternatives, this is Canberra after all. For example, at Woden, park in the original multi story car park up the top. Half the spots are always empty. Enter via David Jones. I would say there is a similar alternative at most shopping centres. It’s not like you’re trying to park on George Street in Sydney.

devils_advocate said :

allyroger said :

“BREEDERS R GROSS GO SUFFER AND DIE U HAD KIDS NOW NEVA LAEVE UR HOUS.

Why so mutch hatred for children? Are you infertile and bitter? Can’t find a willing lover? Someone cut your grass and got pregnant? I do not understand and I have never heard some one use the term breeder in such a derogatory way. Weird. Settle down and enjoy life instead of worrying about kids.
Or you just a troll?

And lol at you whining about canberras parking when you pretty much admited you park to close to other cars.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

+1

It astounds me how many ignorant and rude people troll this site. I wonder if you would call my child “crotch fruit” to my face or assume I drive a Japanese SUV? Worse still, people seemingly can’t read or choose not to so they can have a dig at someone they don’t know. My original post said nothing about convienence other than being able to open the door wide enough to get a newborn capsule out, which really is more of a must than a convienence…

allyroger said :

“Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?”

Amen to that.

Devils_advocate – Remember someone had to be a “breeder” to give your sorry personage existence at some point. An act that we are all eternally grateful for.

Yes, and she did it without expecting society to bow down before the seemingly insurmountable obstacles that attended child rearing (4 of them, no less).

I always knew that breeders had developed a sense of entitlement, but in addition I now know that:
1) regardless of whether I park legally or not, it’s totally fine for someone to vandalise my vehicle so long as they have visible signs of carrying kids in their car, which I am expected to look for each time I find an available car park, and presumably either disregard that carpark or implicitly agree to having my car vandalised;
2) Even though I fully agree that disabled persons should get wider/closer carparks, the fact that I think the line should be drawn at breeders (with no other disability) makes me contemptible. Fair enough.

I look forward to the ideal society where people are assigned rankings based on ever-increasing level of granularity, determining their entitlement to a park based on their percieved level of mobility. So closest will be the disabled spots, then PWP spots. Then the spots for people who “need” to drive an SUV. Then then next 3 rows will be for people with slightly shorter legs. Then a couple of rows for unaccompanied women who feel unsafe walking through car parks. Then smokers. Then at least 10 rows of wider spaces dedicated to people that just aren’t that good at parking (this will be in high use in Canberra). Then another row for people that are a bit tired today and don’t really feel like walking that far. The another row for people that bought a whole bunch of stuff and it’s going to be a bit hard for them to carry it all to the car.

We need Man buying beer parking too.

****** WARNING — THIS POST MAY CONTAIN SARCASM *******

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

I agree with everything you said.

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?

Yes, the problem is people like Pitchka are allowed to breed….. and then require car spaces close to stuff so they don’t become a burden on society by engagin in vandalism…..

“Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?”

Amen to that.

Devils_advocate – Remember someone had to be a “breeder” to give your sorry personage existence at some point. An act that we are all eternally grateful for.

I love the PWP, rarely ever get one, but certainly helps when all the other car spaces are too small to actually open the door and get children in and out of the car! I cringingly remember an incident in Woden once, with unhappy toddler, and small baby in baby seat, whilst I couldn’t actually get the car door open enough to fit the baby capsule in, because a moron had parked over the line next to me. So I had to ask a complete stranger to hold/mind my by this time struggling kids, whilst I reversed the car backwards in order to open the doors to get them in….jammed up the car-park, I was in tears, the kids were in tears, and that was the end of my trips to the shops unless I could find deserted parking areas with spaces next to them….p.s – I don’t mind the walk from a PWP, and I don’t care if they are a long distance away (they don’t need to be at the front)…and it ain’t my fault the Government reg’s now require car-seats that are asteroid impact survivable, cost $550 and have to cocoon my child for the first 7 yrs….

devils_advocate said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Geebus we are talking about a couple of parking spaces being set aside to help people with a particular problem.Is that really making such a big impact on your fragile existence? How about just letting someone else have a very, very minor concession just because it will help them even if it does nothing for you?

devils_advocate said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

Translation: Because I have children I am more than willing to intentionally vandalise your car, or negligently allow those under my care to do so. Accordingly, you should afford me special privileges, and be happy about doing so, even at the expense of your own convenience, so as to prevent me from engaging in vandalism.

With the quality of that logic you could be an ACT magistrate.

Sounds like you are one of those who parks too close to cars with baby seats in them and has a dinged car door. It’s not vandalism if its your own fault.

esp said :

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

It’s not for the greater good.

Firstly I don’t accept the premise that these new spaces are required for safety, what is required is the same common sense by everybody that allowed previous generations to survive without “PWP” spaces.

Secondly, even if it is a safety issue, don’t for a second pretend it is society’s problem. Breeding creates purely private benefits for parents, and externalises costs (of which this is just one more) on the rest of the population. We don’t really need children from any societal perspective. It is far more efficient to import fully grown, and healthy, labour units from overseas and have then turn up ready to work and pay taxes.

So speaking for myself, feel free not to do me any favours.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

Translation: Because I have children I am more than willing to intentionally vandalise your car, or negligently allow those under my care to do so. Accordingly, you should afford me special privileges, and be happy about doing so, even at the expense of your own convenience, so as to prevent me from engaging in vandalism.

With the quality of that logic you could be an ACT magistrate.

It’s just the shops pandering to their main shopping market, you know. During the day, this is often bored mothers with babies, some of whom will buy more if they have less distance to transport it. (This comment brought to you by Middle Class Marxists R Us.)

I wouldn’t park in such a space because it is hard work putting up or collapsing a pram, and in case some feral in a pink track suit unleashed her vocab at me. This happened once when I was picking my daughter up from Mr Poetix at the shops. She didn’t seem to understand that I would soon be in possession of a pram with a baby in it. I still shudder at the memory.

I didn’t specifically look for such spaces in general, but I only had one child, which is a lot easier.

Pitchka said :

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Read….. http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Road%20safety%20%284.9.2%29

My bad. It’s for the greater good, is that too much talking for you ?

You should be greatful for parents with pram spaces. The wider parks mean I don’t have to open my door into yours and scratch or dent your car when you park to close and I need to get my kids in(this happens a lot)

sepi said :

People with prams are doing well to get out of the house some days. They need all the help they can get. And they do tend to also hang around malls spending money.

Person without pram: park at the back and stroll to shops and back. Noice.

Person with pram/kids/babies trying to get back to car with couple of small bags of shopping:
Move at snail’s pace thru carpark with screaming toddler trying to sit on the ground and preschooler pushing the pram – mostly not towards other people or fast moving cars. Drop some shopping – leave it there – no hands to pick it up. Open door and shove screaming toddler in without trapping flailing body parts, go around to other passenger door, find you can’t open it wide enough as too close to next car. Instruct preschooler to mind baby in pram, while traffic streams by – no room next to car for pram. Reef toddler out of car again, put him in front seat as can’t be trusted near cars, reach across length of back seat to dump yelling baby in to capsule. Get big one in telling her to get in her seat and put on her straps, shut door, go back around to see pram rolling gently towards row of car, retrieve and put in boot. Strap/buckle oldest in, realise toddler is still in front, grab him and put in third car seat. I’ve forgotten to do up big strap on little one’s rear facing seat, put back out reaching from front seat to tighten that, go back to big one to give her the drink she’s dropped/thrown on the floor and is yelling about, confiscate drink from toddler who is feeding it to dolly (all over car) go back to boot, go back to drivers seat, get in put own seatbelt on, start car, realise parking exit ticket is in boot, get out, go back to boot, give dirty look to twit waiting impatiently for car spot, pray we get out of carpark within designated time period after paying prior to exit. Vow never to shop again.

If it’s that hard, don’t breed.

esp said :

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

Plenty of typing, not much TALKING. Derrrrrr.

Pitchka said :

………………….

Did someone say something ?

It’s amazing anyone pre 1990 is still alive…. like all those safety issues …… dropping balls, running through the house with scissors, eating lead paint ….. OMFG ……

TheDancingDjinn said :

Pitchka said :

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

I know fat people with Disabled Parking Permits.. No other issues.

Maybe you don’t now about those “other issues” because you really don’t seem like a decent person to know – from what you exhibit here anyways, I wouldn’t suggest people share anything with someone like you.

Sharing is caring, open up to me, and ill tell you what i really think…

Pitchka said :

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

I know fat people with Disabled Parking Permits.. No other issues.

Maybe you don’t now about those “other issues” because you really don’t seem like a decent person to know – from what you exhibit here anyways, I wouldn’t suggest people share anything with someone like you.

Charlie57 said :

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

Most people will probably miss your sarcasm as that is exactly what they think the PWP parks are for (your point exactly I guess). Let me make it clear: PWP parks are not about convenience, they are about SAFETY. These parks are about providing a safe place to load/unload your children, and then about getting them off the road as soon as possible. Clearly though, convenience is a biproduct.

Children are still learning about the world including road safety. Some of them don’t have the presence of mind not to wander in front of a passing car. Maybe they dropped a ball and are just trying to pick it up.

Now, parenting is important and hopefully all parents do their utmost to protect and teach their children to be safe, but giving them a helping hand is a good thing for society to do. This is what society is for. I understand if some people out there choose not to have children, but you are part of a society that NEEDS to have children. Your part in that society is parking 20m further away from the door.

STOP IT, YOUR MAKING SENSE!!!!

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

Most people will probably miss your sarcasm as that is exactly what they think the PWP parks are for (your point exactly I guess). Let me make it clear: PWP parks are not about convenience, they are about SAFETY. These parks are about providing a safe place to load/unload your children, and then about getting them off the road as soon as possible. Clearly though, convenience is a biproduct.

Children are still learning about the world including road safety. Some of them don’t have the presence of mind not to wander in front of a passing car. Maybe they dropped a ball and are just trying to pick it up.

Now, parenting is important and hopefully all parents do their utmost to protect and teach their children to be safe, but giving them a helping hand is a good thing for society to do. This is what society is for. I understand if some people out there choose not to have children, but you are part of a society that NEEDS to have children. Your part in that society is parking 20m further away from the door.

Pitchka said :

esp said :

So all I need is a pram in my vehicle ? I don’t actually need a kid with me, maybe just proof that I own a kid, like car registration papers perhaps. Then I can park there.

Pitchka ….. you should read this ……http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/disability-support-pension, while you walk from your carspace 4 km’s away because you would never stoop so low as to use a parents with pram carspace and because you are clearly concerned about the terrible impact obesity has on our medical / social welfare system…..

I do use parents with pram parking spaces, i am a parent with a pram. Learn how to read.

Sorry, I got stuck on the

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

Anything you said before or after that became obsolete…. or obese because it got to park so close to fast food outlets

People with prams are doing well to get out of the house some days. They need all the help they can get. And they do tend to also hang around malls spending money.

Person without pram: park at the back and stroll to shops and back. Noice.

Person with pram/kids/babies trying to get back to car with couple of small bags of shopping:
Move at snail’s pace thru carpark with screaming toddler trying to sit on the ground and preschooler pushing the pram – mostly not towards other people or fast moving cars. Drop some shopping – leave it there – no hands to pick it up. Open door and shove screaming toddler in without trapping flailing body parts, go around to other passenger door, find you can’t open it wide enough as too close to next car. Instruct preschooler to mind baby in pram, while traffic streams by – no room next to car for pram. Reef toddler out of car again, put him in front seat as can’t be trusted near cars, reach across length of back seat to dump yelling baby in to capsule. Get big one in telling her to get in her seat and put on her straps, shut door, go back around to see pram rolling gently towards row of car, retrieve and put in boot. Strap/buckle oldest in, realise toddler is still in front, grab him and put in third car seat. I’ve forgotten to do up big strap on little one’s rear facing seat, put back out reaching from front seat to tighten that, go back to big one to give her the drink she’s dropped/thrown on the floor and is yelling about, confiscate drink from toddler who is feeding it to dolly (all over car) go back to boot, go back to drivers seat, get in put own seatbelt on, start car, realise parking exit ticket is in boot, get out, go back to boot, give dirty look to twit waiting impatiently for car spot, pray we get out of carpark within designated time period after paying prior to exit. Vow never to shop again.

Watson said :

… being a parent was not a disability last time I checked.

Dear Lord. It is probably sad to admit it, but – you can’t believe how gratifying it is to hear a parent say (read a parent type) this.

Pitchka said :

You make a great point, i digress. From now on, spots reserved for Senior Citizens are no longer for the elderly. Here i come!!!! And if anyone says anything, ill be sure to remind them that being old does not entitle you to special parking privelages, i should not be inconvenienced.

I wasn’t aware there were spots reserved for senior citizens per se. I was aware that being old often exposes people to conditions that render them disabled (i.e. many users of disabled spots happen to be elderly) but I wasn’t aware people were getting special spots based purely on their age. I was about to ask how such a thing could be policed, but suppose people like the OP, who were checking for anchor points on the alfa, would take it upon themselves to check the ID of anyone getting out of a car that didn’t bear the requisite physical hallmarks of such advanced aged (Given I didn’t know these spots existed, I obviously don’t know what that age is).

But in any case, if an elderly person had mobility issues, this would be covered under the disability scheme.

In that basis, since mobility challenged individuals are already catered for, I agree that there should not be parking reserved for seniors who are otherwise mobile, i.e. based purely on the fact they are seniors.

Pitchka said :

devils_advocate said :

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

So in summary, people with children face exactly the same types of inconvenience as those without children. Unless you think that getting run over by “people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot” is somehow less of a problem for childless individuals?

You make a great point, i digress. From now on, spots reserved for Senior Citizens are no longer for the elderly. Here i come!!!! And if anyone says anything, ill be sure to remind them that being old does not entitle you to special parking privelages, i should not be inconvenienced.

So you’re comparing a parent to seniors and disabled people that have mobility problems?

No actually you’re right, the reduced mental capacity that occurs to a lot of parents should definitely entitle you not to have to walk across a carpark just like everyone else.

You should never be inconvenienced oh mighty and entitled breeder.

devils_advocate said :

So in summary, people with children face exactly the same types of inconvenience as those without children. Unless you think that getting run over by “people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot” is somehow less of a problem for childless individuals?

That’s what those ‘baby on board’ stickers are based on too. Because no one cares if they smash into a car only carrying adults, but being told about the baby in the car makes them pay attention.

I found it way scarier to walk through Fyshwick markets on a Sunday arvo with a newborn, with all the knife wielding fruit sellers and people bumping into you. I did occasionally use the PWP parks because I could, but I always felt a bit silly because being a parent was not a disability last time I checked.

oh noh!! someone stole your car park. Better ask for even more privledges. Because I don’t think your baby bonus/ paid parental leave, thousands of dollars of public funding to schools and access to pensions for those that need them are enough. I NEED MA CAR PARK. Notice how publically funded car parks don’t have PWP places. I wonder if it has anything to do with not playing favorites/ discrimating. Opposed by disabled parks, without which, most people with disabilities would not be able to access services. This does not hold true for parents with prams!

PWP parks are in commercial car parks only! which actually doesn’t really even make sense commercially. As a professional without children, I would hazard to guess, my disposable income outweighs a new family’s. So where is my preferential car park! Lets ask retailers, whose rents pay for those car parks, which customers they think should be given preference.

Here’s my pram ….

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=vintage+prams&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=639&tbm=isch&tbnid=MKr8aaTFlUP8RM:&imgrefurl=http://ohbabybabyblog.com/2011/04/12/baby-pram/&docid=t0_olZaVkcVZiM&imgurl=http://ohbabybabyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/vintage-baby-pram.jpg&w=466&h=354&ei=WE2gUL_NKZGViAfow4GoAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&sig=116601637239004696808&page=1&tbnh=147&tbnw=192&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=90&ty=101

my kid’s 58 years old, lol, I can park in a parents with pram spot

esp said :

So all I need is a pram in my vehicle ? I don’t actually need a kid with me, maybe just proof that I own a kid, like car registration papers perhaps. Then I can park there.

Pitchka ….. you should read this ……http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/disability-support-pension, while you walk from your carspace 4 km’s away because you would never stoop so low as to use a parents with pram carspace and because you are clearly concerned about the terrible impact obesity has on our medical / social welfare system…..

I do use parents with pram parking spaces, i am a parent with a pram. Learn how to read.

devils_advocate said :

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

So in summary, people with children face exactly the same types of inconvenience as those without children. Unless you think that getting run over by “people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot” is somehow less of a problem for childless individuals?

You make a great point, i digress. From now on, spots reserved for Senior Citizens are no longer for the elderly. Here i come!!!! And if anyone says anything, ill be sure to remind them that being old does not entitle you to special parking privelages, i should not be inconvenienced.

So all I need is a pram in my vehicle ? I don’t actually need a kid with me, maybe just proof that I own a kid, like car registration papers perhaps. Then I can park there.

Pitchka ….. you should read this ……http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/disability-support-pension, while you walk from your carspace 4 km’s away because you would never stoop so low as to use a parents with pram carspace and because you are clearly concerned about the terrible impact obesity has on our medical / social welfare system…..

devils_advocate said :

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

1. can’t get past them on the escalators.
2. requires complex estimations of volume/mass to calculate whether it is safe to co-occupy elevators based on maximum load ratings
3. …

GOLD!

Pitchka said :

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

So in summary, people with children face exactly the same types of inconvenience as those without children. Unless you think that getting run over by “people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot” is somehow less of a problem for childless individuals?

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

1. can’t get past them on the escalators.
2. requires complex estimations of volume/mass to calculate whether it is safe to co-occupy elevators based on maximum load ratings
3. …

DrKoresh said :

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

I know fat people with Disabled Parking Permits.. No other issues.

Sandman said :

It’s an Alfa, are you sure it wasn’t just broken down?

Too late champ, see comment 12 above 🙂

Pitchka said :

Before i was a parent with a pram, i never noticed how many dead s***s parked there purely for convenience, as these spots are very close to major entrances.

Im not know for being overly loud (insert sarcastic emotican here), and i have no issue telling anyone who has just parked their car in said spot, on the top of my lungs, so others in the area can hear just how inconsiderate these f**ks are. And if they are of the ‘larger size’, ill also advise them that parking away from the entrance may be of some benefit to them.

Its almost as bad as peope parking on surburban streets to save money on parking, slash their tyres i say!

You publicly comment to strangers about their weight? That is far worse than parking in the parents with prams spots.

I work with someone who has an autoimmune disease who lives with chronic joint pain and inflammation. Unsurprisingly, given how difficult moving around is for her, she’s overweight. She also has a permit to park in the disabled spots, because many days just walking around is a major challenge.

People leave nasty notes on her car and it is very distressing for her. Next time you are getting worked up about “fat people”, have a think about the range of chronic illnesses which affect people’s mobility and health, take a deep breath, and refrain from saying or doing something which could potentially add just another layer of difficulty to the life of someone whose life is tough enough already.

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

I doubt people get them just for being fat, I’ll think you’ll find that disabled people tend to be fat more often than not because, funnily enough, being disabled makes it difficult to exercise. What exactly is your problem with fat people?

It’s an Alfa, are you sure it wasn’t just broken down?

chewy14 said :

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

+1.. Totally agree. I for one see no issue with having to carry a newborn half the length of a carpark with vehicles moving all around you, people driving like dicks becasue they just saw someone pulling out of a car spot.. Its not as thoe it is poses any safety issues, hence why the PWP parking spots are about 5 minutes from the entrance, adjacent to a padestrian crossing..
PWP parking is about convenience, not about being considerate for those who have a genuine need for that car park, yes?

Pitchka said :

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

It’s a form of disability, apparently. Or, just for the LOLs.

Have some sympathy, poor dude is driving an alfa.

Most plausible explanation is, the engine and/or transmission lunched itself and that was the nearest space he could push it into to await the tow truck driver (any tow truck driver), all of whom he is on a first-name basis with.

Just because you have pushed out some crotch-fruit, doesn’t mean you can’t have some sympathy for people in worse plight than yourselves. From the majesty of your reliable, comfortable and economical japanese SUV, spare a thought for those gullible people that paid money for an italian car.

Martlark said :

Squidward said :

It’s not illegal to park in parents with prams if you don’t have kids. I wonder how people managed before this?…

It’s not illegal to go through the 12 items or less with 200 items either. These facilities have been put in place to make life easier for people trying to juggle kids, shopping prams and such. Abuse by selfish people who have decided to game the system may well end up in such parking places becoming part of the traffic law scene. That’s what happens when people don’t play nice.

+1, well said mate… :oP

What about people with prams who aren’t parents? This is just shameless discrimination, IMO, parents are not the only ones with kids.

Id like to know why fat people are entitled to disabled parking permits?

Before i was a parent with a pram, i never noticed how many dead s***s parked there purely for convenience, as these spots are very close to major entrances.

Im not know for being overly loud (insert sarcastic emotican here), and i have no issue telling anyone who has just parked their car in said spot, on the top of my lungs, so others in the area can hear just how inconsiderate these f**ks are. And if they are of the ‘larger size’, ill also advise them that parking away from the entrance may be of some benefit to them.

Its almost as bad as peope parking on surburban streets to save money on parking, slash their tyres i say!

It says parents with prams, nothing about having the children with you!

The pram might be in the boot…

Suck it up.

It’s not like your legs stop working when you have kids – use them.

Squidward said :

It’s not illegal to park in parents with prams if you don’t have kids. I wonder how people managed before this?…

It’s not illegal to go through the 12 items or less with 200 items either. These facilities have been put in place to make life easier for people trying to juggle kids, shopping prams and such. Abuse by selfish people who have decided to game the system may well end up in such parking places becoming part of the traffic law scene. That’s what happens when people don’t play nice.

NellyBean said :

Alfa Romeo GTV’s have a child seat anchor behind the headrest. one trim option had the option of having no passenger airbag. and there are strollers that perform second duty as car seats.

unlikely, but possible that this person had a baby with them.

I checked, there were no anchor points installed…

It’s not illegal, but it still makes you a huge pos if you park there and have no little ones with you.

It’s not illegal to park in parents with prams if you don’t have kids. I wonder how people managed before this?

Fyi I have a child myself and it doesn’t bother me where I park.

Alfa Romeo GTV’s have a child seat anchor behind the headrest. one trim option had the option of having no passenger airbag. and there are strollers that perform second duty as car seats.

unlikely, but possible that this person had a baby with them.