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Patients leaving mental health facility to have a smoke.

By Barcham 22 February 2013 70

ABC News has run a story about mental health patients quitting their treatments early because they are being denied a smoke. Starting this year a smoking ban was implemented into Canberra Hospital’s new psychiatric facility, banning patients from smoking outdoors in the facility’s designated smoking areas.

Does anyone else feel that denying people who are obviously already having a tough time a chance to satisfy their nicotine addictions is a bit well… mean?

ACT Health says there have been five cases where they think the smoking ban has contributed to voluntary patients deciding to leave the facility before finishing their treatment.


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Patients leaving mental health facility to have a smoke.
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DrKoresh 12:46 pm 25 Feb 13

Alderney said :

Your hardly going to make it to Professor of Politics with that understanding of political ideology.

As long as you’re never made Chancellor, I can live with that 😀

Alderney 12:38 pm 25 Feb 13

DrKoresh said :

Alderney said :

You’re the one being a fascist dick about it

Your hardly going to make it to Professor of Politics with that understanding of political ideology.

DrKoresh 12:09 pm 25 Feb 13

Alderney said :

One can engage in all manner of activity that has little or no impact on others. If I’m standing at, well anywhere really, and a smoker then stands near me and sparks up I’m supposed to think that is alright? It’s pure selfishness to expect to be able to do certain things everyone knows impact on others. Either that or they are just plain ignorant.

Let me know where you live and I’ll back the car up to your window and leave it running. Why should I obstain from an activity just because it might bother you?

Careful getting off that horse Doctor.

Nowhere did I say that it’s important to me that I stand next to you breathing smoke directly down your throat. You can keep acting as though I have, if that makes it easier for you to carry on this argument. I never said I wanted to stand inside your house chain-smoking, just that if want to able to do it in MY house, then it’s not any of your lumping business. You’re the one being a fascist dick about it, so it’s a bit rich of you to talk about my high horse.

Alderney 11:18 am 25 Feb 13

Gobbo said :

God, some people want the universe to revolve about them, don’t they? Selfish sods.

I agree whole heartedly; most smokers indeed are that.

Gobbo 10:36 am 25 Feb 13

Alderney, here’s a tip. Next time you are locked up in the mental health ward against your will, do not go into the smokers yard. That way you will not be exposed to second hand smoke, and the poor bastards who want one will be able to have a ciggy without your permission.

God, some people want the universe to revolve about them, don’t they? Selfish sods.

Alderney 9:49 am 25 Feb 13

DrKoresh said :

Alderney said :

Whoa, cue all the smokers that are now eying off the lift or the stairwell because someone mentioned cigarette.

I had (yes, past tense) a relative who only used to remember she needed a cigarette when she saw an advertisment for cigs. She’d be dead by now because of age, but she died in pain of lung cancer.

There’s no such thing as a healthy number of cigarettes, every cigarette does you damage. And if someone can smell your smoke, you’re doing them damage too. Height of selfishness.

Everyone else should abstain from an activity because it upsets you? Height of selfishness.

One can engage in all manner of activity that has little or no impact on others. If I’m standing at, well anywhere really, and a smoker then stands near me and sparks up I’m supposed to think that is alright? It’s pure selfishness to expect to be able to do certain things everyone knows impact on others. Either that or they are just plain ignorant.

Let me know where you live and I’ll back the car up to your window and leave it running. Why should I obstain from an activity just because it might bother you?

Careful getting off that horse Doctor.

fraserdude 9:19 am 24 Feb 13

Just another case of the do gooder anti smoking lobby inflicting general pain on others from their dizzy inconsiderate heights.

kakosi said :

It’s an outdoor area right? It’s not just the mental patients that are insane here.

Couldn’t agree more. The management of the place should hang their heads in shame.

IrishPete 9:00 am 24 Feb 13

Leinna said :

The self medication hypothesis is the theory that the very high rates of smoking in schizophrenic patients (who consume 1/4-1/2 of all cigarettes apparently…) is due to improvements in symptoms caused by the nicotine.

The other argument is that the poor self control and insight that are caused by schizophrenic leads to increased susceptibility to addictive drugs.

Then there is the theory that nicotine might promote the development of schizophrenia.

Here’s an article abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19023823/?i=8&from=nicotine%20self%20medication%20hypothesis%20schizophrenia

Then there’s also the suggestion I gave that it offsets the sedating effects of medication.

Smoking is certainly used as a slight distraction from symptoms; often someone with schizophrenia can’t listen to radio, or watch TV, either because they “hear things” from them, or just because what’s going on inside their head is too strong/loud. Rolling a cigarette is a slight distraction, and can also be a social thing – smoking with others and chatting, which is a great distraction.

The idea that nicotine contributes to onset of schizophrenia would be easily tested – what came first, heavy smoking or schizophrenia; I’m confident it is almost always the schizophrenia.

And yes, judgement, insight, health awareness and so on aren’t priorities for many people with schizophrenia (unless their illness is well-controlled).

Someone earlier suggested nicotine inhalers – I don’t think the cigarette-shaped ones are legal in Australia.

IP

Gobbo 8:27 am 24 Feb 13

Fact is that anyone becoming psychotic will be at the lowest ebb of their lives, carrying demons inside of them who render them incapable of coping with reality.

For the government to only give them the treatment that may save their lives on the condition that they undergo nicotine withdrawal at the SAME TIME, is blatant social engineering at least, overtly cruel is more near the truth.

To try to get someone who is psychotic into hospital is hard enough, seeing a schizophrenics have the highest smoking rates in the country, if they know they are not allowed to smoke in the hospital mental health facility, trying to get them to go in will be even harder, and many will run for it if they know the nurses are thinking they need to go in.

This is the nanny state at its worse, whoever made this rule is sick in the head.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 8:14 am 24 Feb 13

DrKoresh said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

DrKoresh said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

DrKoresh said :

breda said :

Look out, all you wine qaffers. If they have their way, in ten years you’ll be looking at pictures of cirrosed livers on the label. If you think I’m exaggerating, look at how the cigarette packet thing began – just a small warning label which grew and grew.

The New Puritans are among us, and are delighting in making people suffer in the name of “promoting healthy lifestyles”.

+1! Too true. I can’t stand this wave of moralistic legislation on how people should spend their free time. Makes me want to find the biggest, stinkiest cigar in the world and blow the smoke in their respective faces.

Right, yet here I’m not wishing cancer on anyone, or calling anyone an arsehole. I’m figuratively expressing my resentment towards people who think they have a right to tell me how to live my life. What point are you trying to make? Or are you just quoting words like a parrot?

So if you lit up next to me and my kids and I told you to put it out, would you do as told or blow smoke in my face?

Troll face is off, this is a serious question.

I wouldn’t light up next to you and your kids. I’ve already said that I move away from others when I have a smoke, but that’s doubly true when children are involved. I always make sure to move well away from kids.

Thank you.

DrKoresh 1:06 am 24 Feb 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

DrKoresh said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

DrKoresh said :

breda said :

Look out, all you wine qaffers. If they have their way, in ten years you’ll be looking at pictures of cirrosed livers on the label. If you think I’m exaggerating, look at how the cigarette packet thing began – just a small warning label which grew and grew.

The New Puritans are among us, and are delighting in making people suffer in the name of “promoting healthy lifestyles”.

+1! Too true. I can’t stand this wave of moralistic legislation on how people should spend their free time. Makes me want to find the biggest, stinkiest cigar in the world and blow the smoke in their respective faces.

Right, yet here I’m not wishing cancer on anyone, or calling anyone an arsehole. I’m figuratively expressing my resentment towards people who think they have a right to tell me how to live my life. What point are you trying to make? Or are you just quoting words like a parrot?

So if you lit up next to me and my kids and I told you to put it out, would you do as told or blow smoke in my face?

Troll face is off, this is a serious question.

I wouldn’t light up next to you and your kids. I’ve already said that I move away from others when I have a smoke, but that’s doubly true when children are involved. I always make sure to move well away from kids.

Leinna 10:59 pm 23 Feb 13

The self medication hypothesis is the theory that the very high rates of smoking in schizophrenic patients (who consume 1/4-1/2 of all cigarettes apparently…) is due to improvements in symptoms caused by the nicotine.

The other argument is that the poor self control and insight that are caused by schizophrenic leads to increased susceptibility to addictive drugs.

Then there is the theory that nicotine might promote the development of schizophrenia.

Here’s an article abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19023823/?i=8&from=nicotine%20self%20medication%20hypothesis%20schizophrenia

Here_and_Now 9:46 pm 23 Feb 13

1337Hax0r said :

Links please? Please prove this, because I believe it to be crap.

I’ve asked for them as well and they’ve not appeared. I fear they may be wishful thinking, like the people who tell themselves and others that their doctor said it would be worse for them to stop smoking than to keep going.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 8:52 pm 23 Feb 13

DrKoresh said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

DrKoresh said :

breda said :

Look out, all you wine qaffers. If they have their way, in ten years you’ll be looking at pictures of cirrosed livers on the label. If you think I’m exaggerating, look at how the cigarette packet thing began – just a small warning label which grew and grew.

The New Puritans are among us, and are delighting in making people suffer in the name of “promoting healthy lifestyles”.

+1! Too true. I can’t stand this wave of moralistic legislation on how people should spend their free time. Makes me want to find the biggest, stinkiest cigar in the world and blow the smoke in their respective faces.

Right, yet here I’m not wishing cancer on anyone, or calling anyone an arsehole. I’m figuratively expressing my resentment towards people who think they have a right to tell me how to live my life. What point are you trying to make? Or are you just quoting words like a parrot?

So if you lit up next to me and my kids and I told you to put it out, would you do as told or blow smoke in my face?

Troll face is off, this is a serious question.

DrKoresh 7:51 pm 23 Feb 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

DrKoresh said :

breda said :

Look out, all you wine qaffers. If they have their way, in ten years you’ll be looking at pictures of cirrosed livers on the label. If you think I’m exaggerating, look at how the cigarette packet thing began – just a small warning label which grew and grew.

The New Puritans are among us, and are delighting in making people suffer in the name of “promoting healthy lifestyles”.

+1! Too true. I can’t stand this wave of moralistic legislation on how people should spend their free time. Makes me want to find the biggest, stinkiest cigar in the world and blow the smoke in their respective faces.

Right, yet here I’m not wishing cancer on anyone, or calling anyone an arsehole. I’m figuratively expressing my resentment towards people who think they have a right to tell me how to live my life. What point are you trying to make? Or are you just quoting words like a parrot?

JimCharles 6:58 pm 23 Feb 13

1337Hax0r said :

Want to know a few good reasons why smoking should be banned in mental facilities?
Have you ever seen or had to provide first aid for the burns inflicted on fellow patients by a smoker who has for a mental health condition when something goes bad for them?
Have you had to deal with the fallout from arguments when a mentally ill smoker is asked not to smoke? For example, one asked not to smoke at a meal, or in a meeting room.
Then, worse still, have you seen mental health patients set fire to furniture, bedding, and other patients? Yes, flamable things and mental health patients don’t go well together.
Then there are the idiots who simply use smoking as a way to piss people off, literally blowing smoke in people’s faces or threatening to burn people.

Seriously, yes, screw their so called rights, think about their safety, the safety of others and their rights. Then think about the fact that smoking causes severe medical issues including mental health issues for people.

I thought that at the AMHU at the hospital the staff kept the lighters behind the security screen and would light cigarettes for the patients only when they were outside?
The patients wouldn’t be allowed to keep lighters for goodness sake.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 6:54 pm 23 Feb 13

DrKoresh said :

breda said :

Look out, all you wine qaffers. If they have their way, in ten years you’ll be looking at pictures of cirrosed livers on the label. If you think I’m exaggerating, look at how the cigarette packet thing began – just a small warning label which grew and grew.

The New Puritans are among us, and are delighting in making people suffer in the name of “promoting healthy lifestyles”.

+1! Too true. I can’t stand this wave of moralistic legislation on how people should spend their free time. Makes me want to find the biggest, stinkiest cigar in the world and blow the smoke in their respective faces.

DrKoresh 6:28 pm 23 Feb 13

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Hey, I have this little baggy of crushed asbestos sheeting, I’m going to scatter it in the air next to you. Now it may or may not cause you cancer, but because its a low percentage you actually will develop mesothelioma then I’m gonna call you the wowser asshole if you complain.

Read that and tell me now if you get where I’m coming from?

Wow, going straight from attacking a strawman into a false analogy, are you on scavenger hunt for logical fallacies? I get where you’re coming from, but you’re over-reacting to something you don’t seem to fully understand.

For one thing, I’m not actually standing next to you, blowing smoke into your face. For another, crushed asbestos isn’t remotely similar to 2nd hand smoke; Go to the next James Hardy rally and see how much sympathy you get from an asbestos victim about having to put up with being near a smoker (in an open air space, for Christ’s sake). Finally, I didn’t call anyone an arsehole for complaining about having to breathe in someone else’s smoke, only the people who think they have the right to tell me not to smoke anywhere, and the people who think it’s a great idea to infringe on the freedom’s of the mentally unwell.

You’re being an arsehole, but that’s less to do with your personal habits and more to do with your personality.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 6:07 pm 23 Feb 13

DrKoresh said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Can you link me to your claims second hand smoke is harmless?

No, because he never said that. I don’t think anyone can say that 2nd hand smoke is totally harmless, because it isn’t, but it’s certainly not this silent killer it’s being made out to be. I too have heard bullshit like 2nd hand smoke somehow being worse than 1st hand but only from the gullible people I keep around to make myself feel smart. It’s intellectually dishonest for you to act as though Breda said 2nd hand smoke is harmless, when they didn’t, anywhere. All s/he did was point-out that there is a lot of scaremongering and outright lies that go into this anti-smoking campaign.

Interestingly, we can blame the rise in asthma on taking hygiene to stupid excesses, reducing childrens exposure to everyday irritants which prevents them from building up a tolerance or resistance to them.

Hey, I have this little baggy of crushed asbestos sheeting, I’m going to scatter it in the air next to you. Now it may or may not cause you cancer, but because its a low percentage you actually will develop mesothelioma then I’m gonna call you the wowser asshole if you complain.

Read that and tell me now if you get where I’m coming from?

gentoopenguin 5:54 pm 23 Feb 13

Talk about kicking a person when they’re down. Who’s business is it of the government to tell a person that they can either receive treatment for their mental illness or smoke? I’m not a smoker, I can’t stand it personally, but I don’t see why this particularly vulnerable subclass of patients should be picked on. Unlike other patients at the hospital, they don’t have freedom of movement to go to the smoko areas.

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