Politics in the Pub - Lyn White from Animals Australia

Skidbladnir said :

The great apes are mostly vegetarian. And they are our closest relatives evolutionary wise.

Closest surviving branch of extant relatives does not mean actual closest relative.
There’s a reason we’re a homo species, and not say, Pongo sapiens or Hybolates sapiens.
Homo sapiens immediate’ predecessor was potentially H. floresiensis, but our nearest known non-sapiens but still Homo relation was H. Neanderthalsis.

Neanderthalsis ate more meat than we did.

Yeah, I should have clarified that 🙂

However, the point still stands.

Ummm, how does the point still stand? Our closest relatives eat meat, as do we. We are omnivores and it is natural for us to be so.

The great apes are mostly vegetarian. And they are our closest relatives evolutionary wise.

Closest surviving branch of extant relatives does not mean actual closest relative.
There’s a reason we’re a homo species, and not say, Pongo sapiens or Hybolates sapiens.
Homo sapiens immediate’ predecessor was potentially H. floresiensis, but our nearest known non-sapiens but still Homo relation was H. Neanderthalsis.

Neanderthalsis ate more meat than we did.

HenryBG said :

Malteser said :

I think there is a change coming and people will no longer be able to put their heads in the sand. But it will take time, and not everyone will stop eating meat.

Get real. Vegetarianism is strange and unnatural, and like other strange and unnatural practices it will never appeal to any significant proportion of people.

Malteser said :

It will never be compulsory to stop eating meat. However, it should be compulsory to treat animals with dignity and respect. That’s the LEAST we can do.

And that is starry-eyed nonsense. Animals don’t get “dignitiy and respect”. What a ridiculous idea.
We should behave ethically, that’s it.

I’m with you on treating animals with dignity and respect.

That said, unless you live in a cave, drink from puddles or nearby rivers, and eat whatever food you can forage from the surrounding forest or capture and kill yourself, I suggest you give up on using the ‘natural’ argument.

Get real. Vegetarianism is strange and unnatural

The great apes are mostly vegetarian.

And they are our closest relatives evolutionary wise.

Which suggests it is not strange and unnnatural and is normal behaviour to some degree.

“Evolutionary wise” our immediate predecessor was Homo Erectus or “Java Man” who was clearly an omnivore.

Henry – You are surely kidding? It is unnatural to eat plants, seeds, nuts, fruits and vegetables?

I guess you and I have very different standards towards the ethical treatment of animals.

Malteser said :

I think there is a change coming and people will no longer be able to put their heads in the sand. But it will take time, and not everyone will stop eating meat.

Get real. Vegetarianism is strange and unnatural, and like other strange and unnatural practices it will never appeal to any significant proportion of people.

Malteser said :

It will never be compulsory to stop eating meat. However, it should be compulsory to treat animals with dignity and respect. That’s the LEAST we can do.

And that is starry-eyed nonsense. Animals don’t get “dignitiy and respect”. What a ridiculous idea.
We should behave ethically, that’s it.

Malteser said :

It would have been great for all the registered members of AA in the ACT to receive an email.

They probably did. However many NSW residents find it much easier to come to Canberra for things than Sydney.

Evan James and Poetix – Sorry I should have posted it on Riot Act – it was a public event organised through the the Australian Institute (don’t ask me what that is, I was only there for the AA organisation). I only found out this was one because I was searching events on the AA website and this popped up. It would have been great for all the registered members of AA in the ACT to receive an email. But you can find the entire session video on youtube here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vodrukigSOk

I-Filed – are you a vegetarian or vegan? I’m just interested to know if you have made the switch. I agree that people should understand what happens to animals that end up on their plate, also other animal products (milk industry anyone!). I think there is a change coming and people will no longer be able to put their heads in the sand. But it will take time, and not everyone will stop eating meat. It will never be compulsory to stop eating meat. However, it should be compulsory to treat animals with dignity and respect. That’s the LEAST we can do.

I hate the factory farming method as well. Sometimes I have these crazy daydreams about living in a world where everything is free range. Nothing is barbaric. Maybe I need to move to a hippy conmune lol

LSWCHP said :

The farmers, shipping companies and slaughterhouses who engage in pointless cruelty to animals are disgusting, and should be prosecuted and closed down.

Absolutely.
I have no time for animal rights lunatics, but Lyn White has done an awesome bit of work exposing these scumbags who don’t care how much their livestock suffers so they can make their dollar.

EvanJames said :

It’s slaughter where the animal is not terrorised and brutalised. It’s where we use the things we’ve developed in this age of computer and ingenuity, so the animal does not feel pain or feel the anguish of death.

Hunting is the best example of this. The animal has led a wild, completely natural life the way it is supposed to . A good hunter will fire one shot and the animal is dead before it even falls to the ground.

Quick, stress-free and painless.

I-filed said :

I would have thought it was indeed all about being vegetarian. What, by definition, is “humane slaughter” please?

It’s slaughter where the animal is not terrorised and brutalised. It’s where we use the things we’ve developed in this age of computer and ingenuity, so the animal does not feel pain or feel the anguish of death. It’s not difficult, makes slaughter easier for the abbatoir workers and is pretty-much a no-brainer. And yet it’s so f***ing hard apparently for so much of the world, even those places to which we’ve supplied the equipment, and the training. Like Indonesia.

Humans can be evil vicious monkeys… it’s up to the rest of us to see to it that this is done the right way.

I come from a rural family. Our farm animals provided eggs, meat, milk, fertilizer and lots of other benefits. I really did have the chance to shovel a lot of shit uphill as a kid. There were also pests like rabbits, foxes, crows and occasionally other peoples stray dogs, which we shot.

The farm animals were always treated with respect.Only a lunatic would abuse the chooks that provide your eggs, or the cows that provide your milk. The pests were dispatched with minimum fuss, because getting rid of them was simply work to be done.

In all cases, everybody knew that only a lunatic would be cruel to an animal, feral or otherwise. The idea of hurting an animal for fun never even entered our thoughts.

The farmers, shipping companies and slaughterhouses who engage in pointless cruelty to animals are disgusting, and should be prosecuted and closed down.

poetix said :

I-filed said :

I would have thought it was indeed all about being vegetarian. What, by definition, is “humane slaughter” please?

While I basically agree, I think that most people like to eat meat, and will continue to do so, and so making slaughter as painless as it can be is a good thing to aim for. You have to be realistic.

I am annoyed that this wasn’t properly publicised. Why not an announcement on RiotACT before the event? Unless there was one and I missed it?

It’s probably better if people who kill and eat animals refrain from identifying as people who care about animal welfare. If “liking meat” is outweighing a person’s commitment to not harming animals, and they decide to keep killing and eating them, so be it. But let’s end the practice of keeping the reality of animal slaughter a secret. People who eat meat should require themselves to spend time in an abattoir and then look at the issue. I don’t think nearly as many people would decide they still “like meat” if they had seen the animal being killed.

I-filed said :

I would have thought it was indeed all about being vegetarian. What, by definition, is “humane slaughter” please?

While I basically agree, I think that most people like to eat meat, and will continue to do so, and so making slaughter as painless as it can be is a good thing to aim for. You have to be realistic.

I am annoyed that this wasn’t properly publicised. Why not an announcement on RiotACT before the event? Unless there was one and I missed it?

I would have thought it was indeed all about being vegetarian. What, by definition, is “humane slaughter” please?

Sad I missed this. Animals Australia have done a great job on the live-export issue. And you’re right, it’s not about making people vegetarian it’s about maintaining a level of humanity to the industry. Seeing animals needlessly suffering, and squealing in agony is simply unacceptable. Just because it’s done in another country, doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye to our complicity.

I didn’t know this was on. I’m signed up with Animals Australia but the “NSW” has them assuming you’re only interested in Sydney! I wouldn’t have gone anyway, the things Lyn White has seen and speaks about are so dreadful, it’s very hard to hear or watch.

Animals Australia are doing a good job of giving people who are horrified by cruelty to animals a voice, and people are speaking up. They’re campaigning on many fronts… battery hens, attempts by the egg producers to re-define “free range” to something that isn’t, sow stalls, the plight of calves born to dairy cows, puppy farms, the carnage in the “sport” of horse jumps racing, export of Greyhounds to Macau and what happens to them, live export (cattle and sheep), and cruelty in Australian abbatoirs.

Lyn White is an interesting person. Originally a police officer, she was the one who travelled on the cattle ship to Indonesia and filmed what many of us saw on Four Corners. She also apparently made contact with Indonesians who hate animal cruelty, and a network of them and people from other countries are now providing footage of cases of animal abuse in their own countries.