Qatar Airways to service CBR from 2017-18

bruce_lord said :

bruce_lord said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

No doubt JC will have a more in-depth analysis but I doubt if Qatar will extend their services to Canberra after this report:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-02/low-numbers-on-singapore-airlines-wellington-to-canberra-leg/8088398

Dungers the stats were for the first few weeks. Wouldn’t be reading too much into it. Needs time. Also no word if the flights were loosing money which is more important than seats filled.

Also different market to Qatar. They are an aggressive airline with deep pockets and would happily loose money on a route if it kept someone else out.

I don’t know where you get your information from that Singapore Airlines will be happy to wear a financial loss if it means keeping another airline off the route.

I worked with a former financial analyst for the airline and he told me they measure and monitor absolutely everything related to revenue and costs. He also said that Singapore closed some US routes just because fuel got too expensive and it slightly tipped the equation.

Apologies just re read your comment and see you mentioned Qatar not Singapore. But is still similar.

No Qatar is not similar. CEO Akbar Al Baker wants QR to be the number 1 of the ME3 and will do it at any cost.

bruce_lord said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

No doubt JC will have a more in-depth analysis but I doubt if Qatar will extend their services to Canberra after this report:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-02/low-numbers-on-singapore-airlines-wellington-to-canberra-leg/8088398

Dungers the stats were for the first few weeks. Wouldn’t be reading too much into it. Needs time. Also no word if the flights were loosing money which is more important than seats filled.

Also different market to Qatar. They are an aggressive airline with deep pockets and would happily loose money on a route if it kept someone else out.

I don’t know where you get your information from that Singapore Airlines will be happy to wear a financial loss if it means keeping another airline off the route.

I worked with a former financial analyst for the airline and he told me they measure and monitor absolutely everything related to revenue and costs. He also said that Singapore closed some US routes just because fuel got too expensive and it slightly tipped the equation.

Apologies just re read your comment and see you mentioned Qatar not Singapore. But is still similar.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

No doubt JC will have a more in-depth analysis but I doubt if Qatar will extend their services to Canberra after this report:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-02/low-numbers-on-singapore-airlines-wellington-to-canberra-leg/8088398

Dungers the stats were for the first few weeks. Wouldn’t be reading too much into it. Needs time. Also no word if the flights were loosing money which is more important than seats filled.

Also different market to Qatar. They are an aggressive airline with deep pockets and would happily loose money on a route if it kept someone else out.

I don’t know where you get your information from that Singapore Airlines will be happy to wear a financial loss if it means keeping another airline off the route.

I worked with a former financial analyst for the airline and he told me they measure and monitor absolutely everything related to revenue and costs. He also said that Singapore closed some US routes just because fuel got too expensive and it slightly tipped the equation.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

No doubt JC will have a more in-depth analysis but I doubt if Qatar will extend their services to Canberra after this report:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-02/low-numbers-on-singapore-airlines-wellington-to-canberra-leg/8088398

Dungers the stats were for the first few weeks. Wouldn’t be reading too much into it. Needs time. Also no word if the flights were loosing money which is more important than seats filled.

Also different market to Qatar. They are an aggressive airline with deep pockets and would happily loose money on a route if it kept someone else out.

“They are an aggressive airline with deep pockets and would happily loose money on a route if it kept someone else out.”

Then they sound like they will be the perfect business partner for our current government and their MOU partners.

Masquara said :

JC said :

Masquara said :

Charlotte Harper I’m afraid this reads like a PR capsule. Any words/thoughts on the fact that they are going to fly out of Canberra only because we have no curfew? (Stated during an interview on 666). Doesn’t worry me particularly at the moment, but are there Canberrans and Queanbeyanites who would be affected by flight noise in the middle of the night?

In fairness Qatar have not made any detail known hence why there is no great detail in this and other articles on Qatars plans. So until they are any comment about curfews etc is just fighting shadows.

Head to some aviation websites if you want some more informed discussion and theories about what they could be planning.

The Qatar Air rep who was interviewed mentioned the lack of a curfew as THE reason for flying out of Canberra, actually.

Qatar rep or Stephen Byron from the airport? Everything I’ve seen in the aviation media suggests no specific details what so ever though there are quotes from Byron saying he expects the flights to be late to take advantage of the curfew free status. Which IMO is more the airport blowing smoke up themselves rather than any facts.

Anyway for what it is worth a flight leaving cbr at 11pm would get to Doha around 5am so yeah would expect it to be leaving midnightish. And inbound to get in around 10pm means leaving Doha around midnight also.

But lack of curfew the reason for the flights? Nah? Lack of rights to elsewhere for sure.

dungfungus said :

No doubt JC will have a more in-depth analysis but I doubt if Qatar will extend their services to Canberra after this report:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-02/low-numbers-on-singapore-airlines-wellington-to-canberra-leg/8088398

Dungers the stats were for the first few weeks. Wouldn’t be reading too much into it. Needs time. Also no word if the flights were loosing money which is more important than seats filled.

Also different market to Qatar. They are an aggressive airline with deep pockets and would happily loose money on a route if it kept someone else out.

JC said :

Masquara said :

Charlotte Harper I’m afraid this reads like a PR capsule. Any words/thoughts on the fact that they are going to fly out of Canberra only because we have no curfew? (Stated during an interview on 666). Doesn’t worry me particularly at the moment, but are there Canberrans and Queanbeyanites who would be affected by flight noise in the middle of the night?

In fairness Qatar have not made any detail known hence why there is no great detail in this and other articles on Qatars plans. So until they are any comment about curfews etc is just fighting shadows.

Head to some aviation websites if you want some more informed discussion and theories about what they could be planning.

The Qatar Air rep who was interviewed mentioned the lack of a curfew as THE reason for flying out of Canberra, actually.

No doubt JC will have a more in-depth analysis but I doubt if Qatar will extend their services to Canberra after this report:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-02/low-numbers-on-singapore-airlines-wellington-to-canberra-leg/8088398

Masquara said :

Charlotte Harper I’m afraid this reads like a PR capsule. Any words/thoughts on the fact that they are going to fly out of Canberra only because we have no curfew? (Stated during an interview on 666). Doesn’t worry me particularly at the moment, but are there Canberrans and Queanbeyanites who would be affected by flight noise in the middle of the night?

In fairness Qatar have not made any detail known hence why there is no great detail in this and other articles on Qatars plans. So until they are any comment about curfews etc is just fighting shadows.

Head to some aviation websites if you want some more informed discussion and theories about what they could be planning.

Himeno said :

Australia has bilateral air service agreements which state how often a carrier flagged in each nation can fly between each. Some agreements are based on seats per week, others are flights per week. Some (like mainland France) are more complicated. Some agreements, such as NZ, US and Japan are open skies allowing unlimited flights/seats.

The agreement with Qatar was updated in October 2015 increasing the amount of flights per week from 14 to 21. Australian carriers can flight 21 times/week to Doha and QR can fly 21 times/week to Australia.
These agreements only cap the 4 major ports, Perth, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. Other Australian ports are generally allowed unlimited access. For example, Hong Kong is allowed 70 flights/week. Cathay Pacific has used all of them. But any flight Cathay opened to Canberra would not be counted to that limit.

In the case of Qatar, they have maxed out their allowance with their daily flights to Melbourne, Perth and Sydney. However, the agreement allows for an extra 7 flights/week to the 4 hubs provided said flights are to/via another Australia port. Flights to Canberra could continue on to Brisbane, allowing QR to get around the 21 flight cap (but they wouldn’t be able to carry people only between CBR and BNE)

Though, these flights to Canberra haven’t been confirmed. CBR is just on a list of possible places QR might open routes to over the next year. QR is well known for saying things and not following through or saying something and doing something else. For example, while other airlines and media were reporting that Qatar was about to join oneworld, QR denied it, even with a oneworld press conference called in Doha. They continued to denied it, when everyone knew it to be the case, until mid way through the press conference.

I wouldn’t plan for QR to fly to CBR until dates and aircraft type are announced and fares are loaded.

Quite true. But with Brisbane doubt Qatar would route Canberra Brisbane makes no logical sense. Adelaide Brisbane is more logical being more on the direct route. But as mentioned above the strong rumour is Canberra will be operated via Adelaide possibly as a triangular routing. Doubt it would stand on its own direct from Qatar.

Australia has bilateral air service agreements which state how often a carrier flagged in each nation can fly between each. Some agreements are based on seats per week, others are flights per week. Some (like mainland France) are more complicated. Some agreements, such as NZ, US and Japan are open skies allowing unlimited flights/seats.

The agreement with Qatar was updated in October 2015 increasing the amount of flights per week from 14 to 21. Australian carriers can flight 21 times/week to Doha and QR can fly 21 times/week to Australia.
These agreements only cap the 4 major ports, Perth, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane. Other Australian ports are generally allowed unlimited access. For example, Hong Kong is allowed 70 flights/week. Cathay Pacific has used all of them. But any flight Cathay opened to Canberra would not be counted to that limit.

In the case of Qatar, they have maxed out their allowance with their daily flights to Melbourne, Perth and Sydney. However, the agreement allows for an extra 7 flights/week to the 4 hubs provided said flights are to/via another Australia port. Flights to Canberra could continue on to Brisbane, allowing QR to get around the 21 flight cap (but they wouldn’t be able to carry people only between CBR and BNE)

Though, these flights to Canberra haven’t been confirmed. CBR is just on a list of possible places QR might open routes to over the next year. QR is well known for saying things and not following through or saying something and doing something else. For example, while other airlines and media were reporting that Qatar was about to join oneworld, QR denied it, even with a oneworld press conference called in Doha. They continued to denied it, when everyone knew it to be the case, until mid way through the press conference.

I wouldn’t plan for QR to fly to CBR until dates and aircraft type are announced and fares are loaded.

Masquara said :

Charlotte Harper I’m afraid this reads like a PR capsule. Any words/thoughts on the fact that they are going to fly out of Canberra only because we have no curfew? (Stated during an interview on 666). Doesn’t worry me particularly at the moment, but are there Canberrans and Queanbeyanites who would be affected by flight noise in the middle of the night?

The new generation aircraft that Qatar will probably use are up to 50% quieter than B737s:

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/responsibility/climate-and-environmental-responsibility/active-noise-abatement/quieter-aircraft.html

You won’t hear them at all.

Charlotte Harper I’m afraid this reads like a PR capsule. Any words/thoughts on the fact that they are going to fly out of Canberra only because we have no curfew? (Stated during an interview on 666). Doesn’t worry me particularly at the moment, but are there Canberrans and Queanbeyanites who would be affected by flight noise in the middle of the night?

John KIlleen said :

We fly regularly into north Africa as a family or individually for both business and holidays. When Emirates started the Middle East route via Sydney/Dubai our travelling times were significantly reduced (by about one third) after years of flying the tiring 30+ hours on the multiple stopover Singapore/Europe/Africa routes. We have been lucky I guess and never had a bad experience on Emirates.

The Emirates A380 has good economy seat space, great meals/entertainment and the family can sit together in the four seat middle row. Transfer times in Dubai are short and we have purchased return tickets for as low as $1500 ex Sydney. We give the high cost of flying Canberra/Sydney a miss by renting a car each way. We can be back in Canberra after arrival in Sydney several hours faster than transferring between terminals for internal flights (especially if delays in arrival or immigration cause rescheduling on QANTAS or Virgin).

Qatar for us is welcome in Canberra. If we can eliminate the Canberra/Sydney leg and retain the short stopover times at a reasonable ticket price then we will fly Qatar. The superior comfort available on the Emirates A380 on the long first leg will need to be weighed up as well. Somehow I think that Qatar ex Canberra will be pushing to compete with Emirates ex Sydney over the North African routes we fly – it may be better value into Europe. We will wait, check the prices and see if Qatar stay in Canberra for the long haul…although I do have some doubts.

Qatar would most likely fly the a350 to Canberra which is probably the most comfortable aircraft flying at present. The 787 that Qatar has would be on the limit of range considering the heat of Qatar.

Also read on some aviation threads that it is possible that the Canberra flight may not be direct but an extension of the Adelaide flights.

We fly regularly into north Africa as a family or individually for both business and holidays. When Emirates started the Middle East route via Sydney/Dubai our travelling times were significantly reduced (by about one third) after years of flying the tiring 30+ hours on the multiple stopover Singapore/Europe/Africa routes. We have been lucky I guess and never had a bad experience on Emirates.

The Emirates A380 has good economy seat space, great meals/entertainment and the family can sit together in the four seat middle row. Transfer times in Dubai are short and we have purchased return tickets for as low as $1500 ex Sydney. We give the high cost of flying Canberra/Sydney a miss by renting a car each way. We can be back in Canberra after arrival in Sydney several hours faster than transferring between terminals for internal flights (especially if delays in arrival or immigration cause rescheduling on QANTAS or Virgin).

Qatar for us is welcome in Canberra. If we can eliminate the Canberra/Sydney leg and retain the short stopover times at a reasonable ticket price then we will fly Qatar. The superior comfort available on the Emirates A380 on the long first leg will need to be weighed up as well. Somehow I think that Qatar ex Canberra will be pushing to compete with Emirates ex Sydney over the North African routes we fly – it may be better value into Europe. We will wait, check the prices and see if Qatar stay in Canberra for the long haul…although I do have some doubts.

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

Second class, a bit melodramatic. Premium economy is something that many airlines lack (none of the middle eastern 3 for example) and of those that have it it is a confused class of travel. Some airlines it is business minus (Qantas) or economy plus (Singapore) and even on airlines that have it not on every aircraft or route. And I would suggest the airlines have the data as to weather premium economy would work on certain routes.

That’s just the way it is not a matter of being second class citizens.

As for Qatar flying to Canberra not going to get too excited. Of all the ME3 airlines they are the ones I dislike the most, mostly due the way they treat staff at both the airline and migrant workers in the state of Qatar. Would rather fly through Sydney than support this mob.

You be the judge:

http://www.businessclass.no/forum/threads/qatar-airways-boeing-787-nightmare-in-economy.27333/

For once I don’t disagree with what you are getting at even a short bum like me I would prefer premium economy on a sector such as Canberra to Doha! Just don’t agree with the 2nd class citizen jibe. Even out of places like Sydney it isn’t as common as you might otherwise expect.

Interestingly if you look at it the hub style airlines have been the slowest to introduce premium economy, the ME3 in particular. All still resist the need but manage to fill their business and economy seats. Indeed even Singapore airlines is a late premium Y enterant and even then only on a subset of their long haul fleet. Of the hub carriers Cathay has been leading the way.

Premium economy has been the mainstay of point to point carriers like Qantas for many a year. Introduced to create a point of difference compared to the ME3 and other hub carriers. Qantas still IMO sets the standard when it comes to premium economy without a doubt.

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

So, there’s first class, business class and then economy. Are you saying we’re being treated like business class travellers?!

Cheeky comment aside, I’d say, as a city of 400,000 (with some creative rounding up), we’re being treated as a test case to see what sort of market demand there is. Which is completely fair enough I think.

It’s incumbent on the relevant airlines to provide schedules and fares that make it worth using Canberra as an option and then the Canberra public to take up that option, otherwise those options won’t last very long.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

Second class, a bit melodramatic. Premium economy is something that many airlines lack (none of the middle eastern 3 for example) and of those that have it it is a confused class of travel. Some airlines it is business minus (Qantas) or economy plus (Singapore) and even on airlines that have it not on every aircraft or route. And I would suggest the airlines have the data as to weather premium economy would work on certain routes.

That’s just the way it is not a matter of being second class citizens.

As for Qatar flying to Canberra not going to get too excited. Of all the ME3 airlines they are the ones I dislike the most, mostly due the way they treat staff at both the airline and migrant workers in the state of Qatar. Would rather fly through Sydney than support this mob.

You be the judge:

http://www.businessclass.no/forum/threads/qatar-airways-boeing-787-nightmare-in-economy.27333/

Madam Cholet said :

The interesting thing about this is that the government was totally caught out. If airlines can basically arbitrarily start adding Canberra to their list of destinations, what’s the point of the government spending so much money on wooing these airlines?

Not quite sure your point. The federal government enters into bilateral agreements with countries about the cities and number of flights airlines can fly to. In the case of the UAE their airlines can have unlimited seats and flights to second tier Australian cities. Qatar it seems is just choosing to exercise these rights to fly to Canberra.

As I said before, Qatar is one airline that I am not impressed about entering the market. Not because of their product but because of the city state the airline represents. No way I will support a regime, if I have the choice that treats migrant workers so poorly including its airline workers.

The interesting thing about this is that the government was totally caught out. If airlines can basically arbitrarily start adding Canberra to their list of destinations, what’s the point of the government spending so much money on wooing these airlines?

No_Nose said :

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

To be fair, Qatar doesn’t have premium economy on any of their flights, so it’s not just a Canberra thing.

I quite like Qatar and have flown with them several times in both economy and business. Their lounge in Doha is exceptional.

The only complaint I have is that once when I asked for a beer, (Doha-Cairo flight from memory), they gave me a Fosters… Fosters? Seriously?

You are very lucky Qatar Airlines even has alcohol on board. I just took it for granted that they – along with Emirates – would be totally dry.

No_Nose said :

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

To be fair, Qatar doesn’t have premium economy on any of their flights, so it’s not just a Canberra thing.

I quite like Qatar and have flown with them several times in both economy and business. Their lounge in Doha is exceptional.

The only complaint I have is that once when I asked for a beer, (Doha-Cairo flight from memory), they gave me a Fosters… Fosters? Seriously?

Oh, I feel a lot better now. thanks!

pink little birdie said :

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

Qatar airlines have consistently been ranked among the best economy service in the world.
I had no issues with them when I flew Melbourne – Doha – we all ended up with a row to ourselves (Group of 8). Doha to Kenya and back were a bit more crowded but still fine.

When you are unfortunate to be born too big to fit into ANY economy class seat it doesn’t matter how good or bad theirs is.

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

Second class, a bit melodramatic. Premium economy is something that many airlines lack (none of the middle eastern 3 for example) and of those that have it it is a confused class of travel. Some airlines it is business minus (Qantas) or economy plus (Singapore) and even on airlines that have it not on every aircraft or route. And I would suggest the airlines have the data as to weather premium economy would work on certain routes.

That’s just the way it is not a matter of being second class citizens.

As for Qatar flying to Canberra not going to get too excited. Of all the ME3 airlines they are the ones I dislike the most, mostly due the way they treat staff at both the airline and migrant workers in the state of Qatar. Would rather fly through Sydney than support this mob.

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

To be fair, Qatar doesn’t have premium economy on any of their flights, so it’s not just a Canberra thing.

I quite like Qatar and have flown with them several times in both economy and business. Their lounge in Doha is exceptional.

The only complaint I have is that once when I asked for a beer, (Doha-Cairo flight from memory), they gave me a Fosters… Fosters? Seriously?

dungfungus said :

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/

Qatar airlines have consistently been ranked among the best economy service in the world.
I had no issues with them when I flew Melbourne – Doha – we all ended up with a row to ourselves (Group of 8). Doha to Kenya and back were a bit more crowded but still fine.

Like the existing Singapore Airlines service, Qatar are not offering any premium economy options.
Canberrans are being treated like second class travellers.

http://dohanews.co/qatar-airways-al-baker-rules-introducing-premium-economy-class/