17 October 2007

Remove the SIEV X memorial - Lloyd

| Ralph
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The ABC is reporting comments by Federal Territories Minister, Jim Lloyd, who today criticised the Stanhope Government’s backhanded moves to make the SIEV X memorial in Weston Park a permanent fixture.

Minister Lloyd noted that the memorial is damaging to other permanent monuments to police and service personnel.

While the SIEV X protest art was initially meant to be a temporary structure, the Stanhope Government has granted a 12 month extension for the sculpture to remain.

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Deadmandrinking1:08 am 22 Oct 07

Momerial should be memorial. Sue me. It’s the Americ- uhh…Aussie way!

Deadmandrinking1:07 am 22 Oct 07

Whilst I don’t agree with Ingee, he has reminded me to say that I think the ANZAC’S get overused in political debates and alot of people misconceive what they actually did.
In reality, WW1 was a pretty stupid war for pretty stupid causes. WW2 is about the only war where Australia was at risk from invasion. Korea, Vietnam – all bullshit. We lost the last one anyway.
The memorials should be about honoring the dead, recognising that they gave their lives and fought bravely but most of all serving as a reminder of what war truly is; tragedy. Also, they stand as monuments to our heritage, since many of our grandfathers served in war – and that is why the SIEV momerial should stay, because, whether you like it or not, in years to come, the boat people will be part of the heritage of many Australians.
To ignore the dangers posed to many of them would be irresponsible.

I’ll use that shovel nyssa to make sure he did not grt up.

I sure miss getting rid of ISP posting details.. The frackturd probably is not an aussie anyway.

Ingeegoodbee, yeah keep going mate. It’s nice when you can express yourself so freely….oh wait, that’s because those you are slagging off died for. They were ordered to go, they did it without complaint and died in the most horrendous conditions.

A little ‘trench foot’ would go down wonders perhaps?

Just keep digging, sooner or later you’ll need some help getting out of that hole, but I sure as hell won’t help you.

Ingeegoodbee8:22 pm 21 Oct 07

Ralph … I’ve had dribbles off the end of my cock that have been worth responding to – your contribution, alas, doesn’t event make that grade!

Shauno … the smell of my farts are more patriotic that anything you will ever aspire to be, or will ever achieve – period – regardless of what you do – ever… end of story. You are an A-class tool with little understanding of this issue as demonstrated by your post. Go and re-read the lot, get yourself an education (not one of those lame arse public school ones though – they’re useless).

Oh we’d all love to draw on the grandiose glory of those lame enough, and dumb enough , to get snuffed in a war, its just the sorry little band of insignificant tools who worship at the alter of the fabricated ANZACC legend who’d love nothing more than to get down on their knees and open up wide to receive the big throbbing member of patriotic dribble …

el ......VNBerlinaV84:36 pm 21 Oct 07

Pull your head in Ingeegoodbee. ANZAC memorials aren’t a ‘left versus the right’ issue, you miserable, ungrateful arseclown.

“ngeegoodbee” Mate from some of your comments above it makes me pissed off to think you are Australian.

How the hell did you develop this view

“some percieved diference between soldiers and prospective migrants (illegal or otherwise), but dead is dead baby, and the dead sure as hell don’t need a memorial.”

You honestly believe that these people that drowned at sea on the Siev X have anything in common with for example the thousands that died defending this nation in WW2?

Jeese mate if you are the product of a recent school education in Australia this country has a big problem.

I understand that you are really just trying to save face now – given your heinous comments.

Sad, really.

Ingeegoodbee2:42 pm 21 Oct 07

Ralph, if failing to regurgitate policies devised by the right to appeal to the swinging left that you don’t even understand – like you do, makes me un-Australian then so be it.

The reality is though that I’ve done sh!ts that were more Australian in their own right than you’ll ever aspire to be.

Agree nyssa, truly disgusting sentiments from these yellowbellies.

So my points proven then – it’s somehow ok to write-off the lives of one group of people, but pay homage to another simply for dying.

They died so that idiots like you could ‘chose’ to slag them off and anything else that tickles your fancy without being shot/bashed/detained.

Why don’t you just go piss on the ANZAC memorial and burn the flag?

What an ungrateful prick you are.

Deadmandrinking11:44 am 21 Oct 07

From the looks of the link on your handle, Ralph, better to say “how un-american!”, don’t you think?

You just don’t get it do you?

How un-Australian.

Ingeegoodbee10:05 am 21 Oct 07

Good work Pandy,you tool.

Ingeegoodbee10:04 am 21 Oct 07

So my points proven then – it’s somehow ok to write-off the lives of one group of people, but pay homage to another simply for dying.

Sure, there’ll be the usual queue of soft-heads clammering to bleat on about some percieved diference between soldiers and prospective migrants (illegal or otherwise), but dead is dead baby, and the dead sure as hell don’t need a memorial.

Ingeegoodbee, I am starting to feel that using a cricket bat over your head would save the Earth from an oxygen thief.

Ingeegoodbee, isn’t it great to have an opinion and not be shot or detained for it?

Oh that’s right, &^*^ the people who died for our country just so you can shit on them without your family paying for the cost of the bullet that killed you.

When my grandfather served and saw his mates killed in a POW camp, yeah I’m sure he wanted a memorial just so he could ‘deal’ with it. The sight of seeing his mates waste away or be shot was such a happy time for him. Next time I see him I’ll ask him if his own time of torture was similar to a family fun day.

FFS, wake up to yourself.

Ok. I’ll bite.

Your rant is so OTT I can’t believe it is written by a sober, sane individual, who has any knowledge of Australian history.

A cup of tea, a Bex and a good lie down could do wonders.

Ingeegoodbee9:52 pm 20 Oct 07

Crap. There’s not a memorial erected that wasn’t done to suck up to, or appease, or get favour with some bunch of jerk-offs, be they ex-service people looking to get a little reflected glory from the demise of their former colleagues, or families who feel that the un-fulfilled potential of their departed needs a Government subsidy to help justify the feelings they cant reconcile in their own hearts … in the end they’re all just another grubby little political exercise.

I would be hard pressed to declare the WW1/WW2 memorial in (Lower) Girilambone a politically motivated construction.

The same cannot be said for the SEIV X sticks.

Ingeegoodbee8:42 pm 20 Oct 07

“This memorial is purely a politically inspired one.” Shauno, show me one that isn’t and I’ll promise not to take a dump on it on my way home from a night on the piss!


You are possibly THE BIGGEST MORON ever to walk the face of the earth, Ralph. Comment by Deadmandrinking — October, 2007

The church you mean?
Are they anti government?

This memorial is purely a politically inspired one. Its sad but people just seem to want to latch onto some sort of conspiracy theory that the Howard Govt was involved in there deaths.

These are the same boats that regularly sink in Indonesian waters during cross island ferry trips it happens all the time.

The people that support this pathetic memorial are the same people that jump on the some what trendy politically correct I hate America bandwagon.

You’re right, no one has called for a Greek ferry memorial…but why?

1. Because it has nothing to do with canberra
2. Because there isn’t a political agenda to push

And presumably noone has called for a greek ferry memorial.

A group has got together and funded and built this memorial. If they want it, who are we to tell them they can’t have it? The objections seem very dog in the manger-ish.

And it isn’t even a permanent thing anyway.

No, using my logic you can have a memorial for any individual tragedy without detracting from any other. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Let’s focus on this event without comparing it to anything else. I don’t want to see a hierarchy of memory, one being more worthy than another.

You can have a heart without having a memorial.

Using your logic, we should have a memorial for every global tragedy.
Where will we put the Greek ferry disaster memorial, or the Kirsk submarine memorial?

Do we have a 9-11 memorial?

Or is it that we only need memorials when it suits a particular political agenda?

“Australia has its own skeletons in the closet that are a higher priority than being all bleedy-heart over some chump who figured swimming for the shore about 100km from the coast was a good thing.”

And thus we come to the main issue. Is there a number of things we are allowed to care about? Is there a limit on memorials which matter? Why can’t we remember this tragedy, and these lives lost, and still remember everyone else? (police, armed forces etc).

Can’t we have a heart for people who are unlucky enough to be born outside our great democracy, while still working on those issues inside our borders? Are they mutually exclusive?

The difference is that the tin-foil hat brigade believe SIEV X was deliberately sunk by our Navy so as to be a warning to all.

A boat carrying 151 people sank off the coast of Indonesia this week killing at least 29 people.


Should we have a memorial for these people too?
This boat had as much of a link to Australia as the SIEV X.

captainwhorebags10:50 am 19 Oct 07

IMHO, once they stopped at an intermediate port of call (in this case Indonesia) they’re no longer refugees, they’re migrants. We have established migration procedures that can be followed, if someone has a legitimate case. We also have refugee procedures that can be followed.

Unpleasant as it may be, the Pacific solution seems to be working: less people are stupidly risking their lives to arrive unannounced on our shores.

DMD, why is it Australia’s responsibility to not only import unskilled labour, but to train them so that they are skilled as well ?

Wouldn’t we be better off by improving the social conditions that the Aboriginals live under, or reducing the amount of white trash a$$holes by giving them appropriate training and education instead ?

I’m not even going to get into appropriate training of our escalating prison populations, or mass issues such as water, obesity, health etc…

Or how about we do what the Indons do, and fix up their boat and send them onto the next country down the chain ?

Lets be frank, that was Ralphs most serious post ever. Australia has its own skeletons in the closet that are a higher priority than being all bleedy-heart over some chump who figured swimming for the shore about 100km from the coast was a good thing.

The majority of occupants of that boat were there for FINANCIAL motives. I would consider the fact they would risk their lives in a people smuggling operation a good estimate of their character.

To be fully frank, it’s lucky they didn’t end up plying their bodies in the sex trade, or become the next generation of surgical parts released to the open market.

Throughout this, I continue to fail to see why this is Australia’s problem..

captainwhorebags9:21 am 19 Oct 07

Ingeegoodbee – glad to see we can all agree on one thing: leftist vitriol comes out of someone’s arse.

Deadmandrinking8:59 am 19 Oct 07

You are possibly THE BIGGEST MORON ever to walk the face of the earth, Ralph. Skills training ever cross your mind?

Th4t 1s R4lph’s most s3r1ous p0st eva.

If these people had skills, let alone english, they wouldn’t be clamouring on rickety boats.

I have no problem with skilled migrants. Good for the economy they are.

Hey Ralph, where can I buy a chain saw? Need fire wood.

Deadmandrinking12:12 am 19 Oct 07

And Ralph, to add to ingee, do you know there’s a skill shortage in australia?

Ingeegoodbee9:53 pm 18 Oct 07

Not my bretheren sunshine, the only union I’ve ever been a member of is the rugby union.

What I’m sick of is the protectionist and therefore essentially socialist policy of restricting access to citizenship. If people want to come here to get a better life, make money and get ahead, good on them … if you average dumb white fu@k want’s to carry on about how his job is threatened I say suck it up sunshine, work harder and be prepared to take a pay cut or three to keep your job, ‘cause if you so much as stop to scratch your dumb catholic ar$e, there’ll be a keen migrant to help you pack your crap and show you the door.

Actually, your union bretheren don’t want them either, stealing jobs and all, you know.

Ingeegoodbee9:08 pm 18 Oct 07

You never miss a chance to show us what an oxygen bandit you really are do you Ralph? You wouldn’t know leftist vitriol if it was dribbling from your butt! Do you think people come to Australia from some rat-hole to join a union? It’s a pure expression of free trade you jerk-off. These are the people you’ll be sending you CV to when you grow up.

And as for disrespecting former armed forces personnel … get over it sunshine … it’s just a job. They deserve no more of anyone’s respect than the garbage guy does for emptying your wheelie bin? Oh, and you’ll squeal – but dustmen don’t get shot at! Yawn. Show me a war memorial and I’ll show you a handy place to take a dump on the way home from a night on the piss … all the sentimental BS is simply feel good twaddle for you patriotic soft-heads.

Stanhope said it was AUSTRALIA’S greatest maritime tragedy.

He said it, it must be true.

Typical vitriol from a leftist, disrespecting former armed forces personnel – yet at the same time lapping up the benefits that our free democracy provides. How disgusting to brand our war heroes, who gave our lives for this country, as stupid.

Of course the cultural elites know everything, don’t they?

Another typical response from leftists is to automatically brand anybody who doesn’t support this monument, to an event which never occurred in Australia, as racist.

Yaawwwnnn, heard it all before.

Ingeegoodbee8:17 pm 18 Oct 07

fhakk, hang in there mate, it’ll happen.

On a subject like this you get every hand-on-cock pathetic impersonation of a hard-man fat-mouthing off about “illegal immigrants” and what ever else they can think of when they stop chewing gum … you’ll hear shit about service personnel who “gave their lives” which really means they were dumb enough to get killed by the enemy … and a bunch of twaddle suggesting these people kind of deserved to drown because what do you expect getting in a leaky boat, but the bit I love is that these spastics really believe that just because they shoved their head out of their mummy’s cnut in Australia, that somehow gives them license to have an opinion on this sh!t.

I am not a racist but, I don’t like Pommy rugby union players.

This is reading more like a racist tirade on those forums at news.com.au…keep it up! I want to see death threats, people! Death threats and copious numbers of the phrase “I’m not a racist but…”

Deadmandrinking4:27 pm 18 Oct 07

“What does it have to do with canberra.”

Thumper! Dickhead! Sorry, but that really was one of the most moronic posts ever posted. Canberra is the CAPITAL of AUSTRALIA. It is supposed to represent our country to the rest of the world. SIEV X was a disater attended to by Australian Personnel. It was also one of the biggest maritime disasters in the part of the world in recent years. That is why we have a monument to the lives tragically lost.
If you want to live in a city that’s only concerned with itself – well, Sydney’s house prices are nearly the same as ours. Go there, please, and don’t come back.

barking toad11:51 am 18 Oct 07

Why do I care sepi?

Because it’s political grandstanding encouraged by nohope to try and point blame at the Australian Government for tightening it’s policy on illegal immigration.

What the fark does a boat full of illegal immigrants sinking off Indonesia have to with the ACT?

Got any addresses,sepi? I’d love to forward this ‘vitriol’ to the greiving families. Might help to encourage any surviving relos to stay away from our shores.

So, when do you reckon we’ll see Stanhope supporting a Memorial being erected opposite the the Chinese Embassy in memory of all those who died in Tiannamen (sp?) Sq???? After all, there are lots of Chinese survivors of that incident living in Australia too!

A more appropriate memorial for Canberra would be one in memory of all those who have died unnecessarily while either waiting to have surgery in a Canberra hospital, or while waiting for assistance in the Accident and Emergency room!

OK, I think we should build a new memorial, like the Hindenburg memorial (yes that’s it, the weather cock on a pole)


You don’t have to be accepting blame to put up a memorial.

Much like the gravestones these people will never have, this memorial just says that a sad thing happened and people lost their lives.

Methinks you lot protest too much – guilty conscience? Otherwise why do you care?

Also the family members of the SIEVX are in Australia, and have been involved with the various memorials. I hope they never read this vitriol.

Occupying public space, which is not costless, you know.

Yes, and the SIEV X memorial was put together by the “SIEVX Memorial Project“, largely based in the Uniting Church community. Also a privately funded organisation.

Next teacup?

Caf – as it turns out, the memorial you speak of was erected by the ‘womens titanic memorial association’.

As a privately funded organisation, I have no objections to them building whatever they want with their own money.


VYBerlinaV8...the_original_and_best9:43 am 18 Oct 07

Let’s put the memorial where it belongs – on the bottom of the ocean with the damn boat!

Maelinar: It doesn’t seem that outlandish for the US to have a Titanic memorial, since you mention it… oh and look, turns out they do!.

Nohope has done this on the assumption of a Federal Labor goverment after November 24.

The 12-month extension is still subject to NCA approval, which can’t happen during the caretaker period.

A Federal Labor government and this protest art becomes a permanent fixture, and the Al Grassby statue get erected somewhere in the Parliamentary Triangle.

barking toad9:05 am 18 Oct 07

The sinking of an unsafe vessel with loss of life in international waters closer to Indonesia than Australia is a tragedy even though it was full of illegal immigrants and captained by a people smuggler.

The only tenous link to Australia is that was the intended destination because of a soft policy on illegal immigration (since admirably corrected).

Nohope pushed for it years ago but backed off when he was getting bashed for his incompetence as local mayor. He’s managed to slip it in the back door through others.

The only thing it is a memorial to is the bleeding heart lefties hatred of democratic western society and Bush and Howard. Yet another tree hugging hippie piece of crap.

What’s next – the Iraq invasion memorial ?

Yes, a memorial implies some kind of responsibility by the host country. Siev X never made it to Australia. That’s kind of like America building a Titanic memorial.

I agree that it does not belong here, sure, but I don’t think it is that bad of an idea that we should be stopping people who want it from receiving it.

It quite likely that the country where these people came from will not let a memorial be built.

Doesn’t a memorial imply some kind of responsibility for what happened by the host country?

Agree, tear the disgraceful memorial down. If they’re so enamoured to it, they can stick it in the foyer of the Labor club along with Al Grassby.

It’s an insult to other memorials for genuine issues, that symbolise and remember Australians who have given themselves selflessly for our country and others.

Absent Diane7:31 am 18 Oct 07

there seems to be a lot of morons on this site that get worked up about some stupid sht. Its monument GET OVER IT!

Ingeegoodbee6:37 am 18 Oct 07

How the hell does this folly diminish other memorials – they’re all a bloody waste of space and money in the first place. I don’t see how some bloody poles in a park somewhere somehow detracts from money wasted on ANZAC parade pandering to the self importance of people who diddn’t manage to get themselves killed in a war somewhere.

Deadmandrinking1:17 am 18 Oct 07

I agree with Hugo.
353 people died that day, 146 children, 142 women and 65 men: They were en route to Christmas Island – Australian territory. They sank in international waters, within the Australian border protection surveillance zone. They were attended to by Australian naval officers.
Whether you like it or not, Australia was involved with this tragedy. Since we are supposed to be a humane society, we should remember it fittingly, with respect to those lives lost. Your mate from ireland is a dickhead if he can’t understand this.
Should we cease the dawn services held at Gallipoli? The ANZAC’S weren’t turks where they?

‘Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.’

That’s inscribed at the memorial on Anzac cove.

Sadly there’s the local helicopter pilot who takes tourists on sightseeing tours of Canberra and flies in a circle over the stupid monument giving his sob story version of the affair, quite embarrassing having to listen to him droning on to my mate from Ireland who couldn’t give a Rat’s arse about illegal immigrants. Get rid of the damn thing.

The memorial is an embarrassing reminder to all of us about the whinging idiots who are so out of touch with reality that they don’t accept that if you get on a rusty old boat and try to come to Australia illegally that it may very well sink and the passengers may die on the way.

If they wish to create a memorial i’m sure there is a cemetery in their country of origin where their families can create a memorial of their life.

I’m sure the government can put the public space to better use rather than for some useless memorial that a minority of people actually know of or infact care about.

Vic Bitterman10:35 pm 17 Oct 07

Good on him.

That memorial is an embarrassing reminder to all of us about this government so out of touch with reality, continually syphoning money from all of our pockets for bullshit “causes”.

this territories dickhead allowed the airport to be bought and the buyer to run rampant, wrecking one of the main entrances to the ACT, and he is complaining about a few sticks in a park? Evidently politics are the only thing that matters, not running the territory efficiently.

I might think the Greek Australian Memorial on Anzac Way has no place in Canberra, but I don’t object to it if someone else wants it there.

We need a Territories Minister because of the incompetence of our Chief minister.
A SIEV X memorial has no place in Canberra.

Yes they’re in charge of the NT (and Jervis Bay Territory, and the external territories). They’re the minister that the NCA reports to.

Why do we need a Federal Territories Minister anyway – have they ever actually done anything For us?

They only seem to pop up to reinforce decisions the ACT doesn’t actually want – making the GDE go the long way around the AIS, moving the tent embassy etc.

Are they in charge of the NT too, or just us?
And how do they fit in with the NCA, the Leg Ass etc?

Actually, the SIEV X black arm band protest besmirches the name of our Defence forces

Taking Lloyd’s unnecessary comments to their logical conclusion, our cemetaries should be bulldozed and the land properly used.

Because the are memorials to ***Australians*** serving in our services?

I must admit I haven’t been following this debate carefully, but how exactly is it ‘damaging’ other memorials?

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