10 November 2011

Road woes: motorbikes and my daily commute

| john84
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I travel from Belconnen to Woden daily, mostly in peak-hour morning traffic, and Canberra’s roadways get backed up.

Each day, motorcyclists ride in the bike lanes passing the lines of cars, and eventually duck in at the last chance available, skipping all the automobilers.

Does anyone else have a problem with this?

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FWIW, I have actually seen the police targeting motorcycle riders in bike lanes, along Parkes Way during the morning rush. Just a van parked in the bike lane, pulling over any motorcycles who were using that lane. There were 3 or 4 bikes pulled over when I went past.

I don’t have a problem with it, as long as it’s safe – which generally means that visibility needs to be good enough that motorcycles can see any bikes in the lane in plenty of time. The on road bike lanes along William Hovell Drive and Parkes Way rarely ever seem to have any push bikes in them though – why not specially designate some cycle lanes on major roads as allowing motorcycles, with a reduced speed limit, and push bikes always retaining right of way?

The Antichrist4:58 pm 18 Dec 11

No problem with this at all, as long as the motorcyclist takes appropriate care if there are any pushie riders actually using the pushy lane in the first place……..

Innovation said :

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

ABC129 said :

A driver of a vehicle and rider of a motorbike may only drive in a bicycle lane
for up to 50 metres:

%u2022 to enter or leave the road;
%u2022 to overtake a vehicle that is turning right or making a U turn; and
%u2022 to avoid an obstruction.

Quoted again for those who didn’t bother reading it the first time.

But those cars were an obstruction, your Honour. Then 50 metres up the road I encountered further cars obstructing my way.

Or “I was going to exit the road in 50 metres your Honour but then I changed my mind and decided to exit 50 metres further down the road” … Or actually pull in and out of side streets or driveways every 50 metres (It would still be quicker than sitting in stationary traffic)

Sounds like a good strategy. Let us know how it works out for you.

I wouldn’t do it. I don’t see the payoff being worth the risk, nor see myself deriving any joy from it. In fact I think I’d find it embarassing, demoting myself to a cycle lane. (Unless I’m cycling of course! In which case I’d take the suburbs anyway, so to me the whole lane is a non-event).

Postalgeek said :

Mysteryman said :

ABC129 said :

A driver of a vehicle and rider of a motorbike may only drive in a bicycle lane
for up to 50 metres:

%u2022 to enter or leave the road;
%u2022 to overtake a vehicle that is turning right or making a U turn; and
%u2022 to avoid an obstruction.

Quoted again for those who didn’t bother reading it the first time.

But those cars were an obstruction, your Honour. Then 50 metres up the road I encountered further cars obstructing my way.

Or “I was going to exit the road in 50 metres your Honour but then I changed my mind and decided to exit 50 metres further down the road” … Or actually pull in and out of side streets or driveways every 50 metres (It would still be quicker than sitting in stationary traffic)

Mysteryman said :

ABC129 said :

A driver of a vehicle and rider of a motorbike may only drive in a bicycle lane
for up to 50 metres:

%u2022 to enter or leave the road;
%u2022 to overtake a vehicle that is turning right or making a U turn; and
%u2022 to avoid an obstruction.

Quoted again for those who didn’t bother reading it the first time.

But those cars were an obstruction, your Honour. Then 50 metres up the road I encountered further cars obstructing my way.

bd84 said :

2. Motorbikes lane splitting is illegal. Unsafe lane changes, occupying the same space as another vehicle, overtaking on the left etc.
3. Motorbikes moving between stopped traffic also illegal. See above.

Rubbish. Lane splitting and lane filtering are not illegal. Show me the legislation that says they are. There are other offences that *may* come into play but it’s not that hard to filter or split and not break any road rules. Maybe you need to read the ARR to see what offences there actually are and what is fictitious.

Best thing I’ve seen- a motocycle weaving in and out of stopped bumper to bumper traffic, passed a ute with a dog on the back. The dog jumped and barked at the motorcyclist, he was shocked and fell off his bike! A little bit of entertainment for us in the car.

ABC129 said :

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/64482/Road_Rules_2011_Part_E.pdf

From Page 3 of the document:

Bicycle lanes
Bicycle lanes are reserved for the use of bicycle riders only. Bicycle lane markings,
including the coloured bicycle lanes at intersections highlight the existence of the
‘bicycle lane’ to motorists and the ‘right of way’ legally provided to the cyclist.
Therefore, where a motorist sees a bicycle lane, he or she must be on the lookout
for cyclists as always. If a cyclist is on a bicycle lane the motorist must give way.

While the bicycle lane alerts motorists to cyclist’s ‘right of way’, the bicycle rider also
needs to be vigilant, as these areas pose a much higher risk of collision. The fact
that the bicycle lane gives a cyclist ‘right of way’ does not necessarily mean that it
will be granted. Cyclists are often difficult to see in adverse conditions and are
extremely vulnerable, so as a cyclist, it is far better to be prepared to give way than
to have a collision.

**pay attention to this bit**
A driver of a vehicle and rider of a motorbike may only drive in a bicycle lane
for up to 50 metres:

• to enter or leave the road;
• to overtake a vehicle that is turning right or making a U turn; and
• to avoid an obstruction.

Quoted again for those who didn’t bother reading it the first time.

carnardly said :

Yes, I have a problem with it.

+1

Sgt.Bungers said :

We’ve had to contend with human/wind/motor powered vessels in our water ways for centuries. Motor powered gives way to wind and human powered, human powered gives way to wind powered. Easy.

Cycle lanes could easily work the same way, with the caveat of a 20 km/h speed limit for motorcyclists? What’s the big deal?

Ahh that’s right, tall poppy syndrome from those in cars.

Sorry Bungers but your analogy is not a good one – a waterway has room for one to give way to another. A bike lane does NOT. Particularly when some idiot on a motorbike comes out of his Xkmph regular traffic lane into a Ykmph bicycle lane.

Since you and Innovation both believe a 20kmph speed limit for a motorbike traveling in the bicycle lane is feasible, can I ask how you’d police that? Tell me where else you see a differential speed limit based on being on one other the other side of a line?

Do I get annoyed with cyclists who bang past me on shared paths with no warning? Hell yes. But those are shared paths. A bicycle lane is NOT a shared space, nor should it be.

Sandman said :

As for that cyclist that got hit by the motorbike, I guess there’s never been a cyclist hit by a car in the history of the ACT? At least he has the benefit of CTP insurance, unlike the old lady on my street who got knocked over by a cyclist who went through a red light cause he didn’t think they applied to him if he thought it was safe.

He was hit by a motorbike while riding IN THE BIKE LANE Sandman. He was where he should be, the guy on the motorbike was not. The fact that there are inattentive drivers around, or a colourblind cyclist for that matter, does not make that motorcyclists lack of observation of the road rules any better, nor invalidate the rule. If on motorbike – stay out of the bike lane!

steveu said :

I am a motorcycle rider, as are many of my friends..

I farted on the set of blue lagoon!

Seriously though being a motorcyclist aint’ unique. I’m one too. Really, no one could give a s*** whether I am or not.

The point here is that we are all motorists and the safety of all motorists is paramount. Lane filtering or not so long as there is no danger to others then it doesn’t matter what the Mick Doohan wannabe (or other rider type) gets up to on their commute.

I’m OK with it too, except when motorcyclists say “don’t ride us off” (remember the TV ad?) and then do domething that increases the chance of that happening. (however, in this case, riding down the bike lane/curb side is probably one of the safer ‘illegal?’ things they can do, IMO)
Every time I see a rider do something stupid/illegal, I say out loud in the car “don’t ride us off!”. I find myself saying that to myself quite a few times a week…..
Luckily I’ve never seen the aftermath of a motorcycle crash. I reckon it’d be nasty. Which is why I wish they’d help us moron car drivers take better care of them! I say, be as predictable as you can on the road guys! 🙂
To tell the truth, if riding was safer than it is now I’d love to ride to work!

OpenYourMind said :

Firstly, there’s lots of reasons to ride a motorcycle, but saving money is usually not a good reason.

Not a good reason in your opinion perhaps, but I would suggest it is a very common reason over the last few years in Canberra, and showing no signs of changing.

All those people aren’t riding scooters for the thrills.

Thoroughly Smashed10:20 am 11 Nov 11

You said :

As a motorcyclist let me just say that it sucks to be you.

Enjoy your slow drive to work, trololololololol!

Maybe on average I’ll take 5% longer than you to get to work, but I’m also ~97% less likely to die doing so. Seems like a fair trade-off to me.

OpenYourMind said :

You said :

As a motorcyclist let me just say that it sucks to be you.

Enjoy your slow drive to work, trololololololol!

I wouldn’t get so high and mighty. Sure, you might be a little quicker at times in heavy traffic, but then you get to work and start offloading your boots, dri-riders, helmet, gloves etc. and all those car drivers have already settled down to their first cup of coffee at work. Motorbikes: 0-100km/h in 5min – counting all the dickin’ around.

That said, I ride a bicycle more often than not and I have to add a shower to my commute time too.

I reckon a power limit could be set for the bike lane – 1kW max. That will keep away the big motorbikes and the strong cyclists who overtake me 🙂

Except, that doesn’t actually happen. I get to work, park my bike, take off my helmet, gloves and jacket in less than a minute. Done.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/64482/Road_Rules_2011_Part_E.pdf

From Page 3 of the document:

Bicycle lanes
Bicycle lanes are reserved for the use of bicycle riders only. Bicycle lane markings,
including the coloured bicycle lanes at intersections highlight the existence of the
‘bicycle lane’ to motorists and the ‘right of way’ legally provided to the cyclist.
Therefore, where a motorist sees a bicycle lane, he or she must be on the lookout
for cyclists as always. If a cyclist is on a bicycle lane the motorist must give way.

While the bicycle lane alerts motorists to cyclist’s ‘right of way’, the bicycle rider also
needs to be vigilant, as these areas pose a much higher risk of collision. The fact
that the bicycle lane gives a cyclist ‘right of way’ does not necessarily mean that it
will be granted. Cyclists are often difficult to see in adverse conditions and are
extremely vulnerable, so as a cyclist, it is far better to be prepared to give way than
to have a collision.

**pay attention to this bit**
A driver of a vehicle and rider of a motorbike may only drive in a bicycle lane
for up to 50 metres:

• to enter or leave the road;
• to overtake a vehicle that is turning right or making a U turn; and
• to avoid an obstruction.

Disinformation10:00 am 11 Nov 11

You said :

As a motorcyclist let me just say that it sucks to be you.

Is that an admission, or just incredible irony?

Okwhatever said :

Classified said :

I don’t care so much about them using narrow parts of the road, what I truly hate is when they weave through traffic using the normal lanes at 20+km/h faster than the prevailing traffic flow. More than once I’ve indicated then started to change lanes only to have to swerve out of the way of one of these morons so as not to hit them. They’re often going quickly enough that not only can you not see them until you’ve started your lane change, but they don’t see you because they’re watching the traffic immediately in front of them.

This is not always the riders fault, you have to see things from another perspective sometimes. Last week I was riding from civic to fyshwick, I had just exited a roundabout and was accelerating (at a normal rate) past a ute which decided to indicate and pull over into the lane space I was occupying. My choices were two: brake or accelerate and I chose to accelerate leading to a flurry of flashing lights and horn beeping from the startled ute driver. I can only imagine he was angry at my aggressive riding and I am sure he assumed I just gunned it to get past his car before he changed lanes but I was just protecting myself from his sh*t driving. A lot of actions a rider takes simply to avoid danger or remove themselves from what they perceive to be a dangerous situation, these actions are often seen as aggressive.

There are d*cks out there but there are more in cars than on motorbikes.

I understand your point, and I agree that sometimes accelerating out of trouble is the way to go. The guy I saw, however, was not in such a situation. He was weaving in and out of traffic at least 30km/h faster than the flow, and continued after he went past me until he was out of sight. A few others beeped him and he just kept going.

It’s not the first time I’ve seen motorcyclists ride like that.

You contend that there are more idiot cra drivers than motorcyclists. That may well be true, but only, I suspect, because there are lots more cars.

bd84 said :

1. Motorbikes riding down the bike lane is illegal. The same as it is for cars.
2. Motorbikes lane splitting is illegal. Unsafe lane changes, occupying the same space as another vehicle, overtaking on the left etc.
3. Motorbikes moving between stopped traffic also illegal. See above.

It is also illegal for car drivers to do all of the above. You are moron if you think doing anything of the above does anything for congestion, you’re more likely to be causing it when other users have to brake to avoid you cutting in front of them so you don’t become a hood orniment. You are also a moron if you think doing any of the above will save you from some coffee drinking driver rear ending you, you’re more likely to die from getting knocked off after zooming through traffic on people’s blind spots.

Just because you can physically do something, doesn’t mean you should, I could drive my car on the footpath to avoid traffic, but as it’s illegal I don’t do it. Until more motorbikers show some respect to other road users and actually ride so people can see them, they will continue to gain no respect and keep becoming road kill.

Thank you, bd84, for your enthusiastic use of the word “moron”. I was under the impression that the word originally referred to “one who dwells on the moors” – in other words, a simple-minded country bumpkin. But according to Wikipedia, I was quite wrong – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_(psychology)

I’ve not had my IQ tested for many years, but you may be right in that I could fall within the 51 to 70 point range. But this begs the question – are you, sir, an imbecile or an idiot?

bd84 said :

You are moron if you think doing anything of the above does anything for congestion

Just because you are not allowed to do something doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be allowed to do it. Lane filtering is legal in some countries for the very reason that it increases traffic flow, including the addition of motorbike zones at the front of intersections specifically for riders to filter to and move away from the slower cars more easily when the lights go green.

I filter, I win. Mwahahahaaa

steveu said :

As for lane filtering, these things come to mind:

Passing on the left

Passing on the left is not illegal, it is allowed under certain circumstances:
AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES – REG 141

141—No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle

(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:

(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle; or

(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle; or

(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.

Classified said :

I don’t care so much about them using narrow parts of the road, what I truly hate is when they weave through traffic using the normal lanes at 20+km/h faster than the prevailing traffic flow. More than once I’ve indicated then started to change lanes only to have to swerve out of the way of one of these morons so as not to hit them. They’re often going quickly enough that not only can you not see them until you’ve started your lane change, but they don’t see you because they’re watching the traffic immediately in front of them.

This is not always the riders fault, you have to see things from another perspective sometimes. Last week I was riding from civic to fyshwick, I had just exited a roundabout and was accelerating (at a normal rate) past a ute which decided to indicate and pull over into the lane space I was occupying. My choices were two: brake or accelerate and I chose to accelerate leading to a flurry of flashing lights and horn beeping from the startled ute driver. I can only imagine he was angry at my aggressive riding and I am sure he assumed I just gunned it to get past his car before he changed lanes but I was just protecting myself from his sh*t driving. A lot of actions a rider takes simply to avoid danger or remove themselves from what they perceive to be a dangerous situation, these actions are often seen as aggressive.

There are d*cks out there but there are more in cars than on motorbikes.

steveu said :

I am a motorcycle rider, as are many of my friends. I cant say I am happy to see the minority of riders doing this to tarnish the reputation of motocyclists. Very poor form, given that we have a very good compulsory training system in place in the ACT (thank god) s/he should know better and not be so irresponsible.

As for lane filtering, these things come to mind:

Passing on the left
Passing too close
Passing at an unsafe speed (relative to the other traffic)
Passing a moving vehicle in the same lane
Reckless/negligent driving

Seem like reasonable reasons for a number of TINs if you ask me.

I think people realise that it’s a minority of riders who behave this way. It’s just that the crazies are the ones you remember. Just like with motorists.

I am a motorcycle rider, as are many of my friends. I cant say I am happy to see the minority of riders doing this to tarnish the reputation of motocyclists. Very poor form, given that we have a very good compulsory training system in place in the ACT (thank god) s/he should know better and not be so irresponsible.

As for lane filtering, these things come to mind:

Passing on the left
Passing too close
Passing at an unsafe speed (relative to the other traffic)
Passing a moving vehicle in the same lane
Reckless/negligent driving

Seem like reasonable reasons for a number of TINs if you ask me.

1. Motorbikes riding down the bike lane is illegal. The same as it is for cars.
2. Motorbikes lane splitting is illegal. Unsafe lane changes, occupying the same space as another vehicle, overtaking on the left etc.
3. Motorbikes moving between stopped traffic also illegal. See above.

It is also illegal for car drivers to do all of the above. You are moron if you think doing anything of the above does anything for congestion, you’re more likely to be causing it when other users have to brake to avoid you cutting in front of them so you don’t become a hood orniment. You are also a moron if you think doing any of the above will save you from some coffee drinking driver rear ending you, you’re more likely to die from getting knocked off after zooming through traffic on people’s blind spots.

Just because you can physically do something, doesn’t mean you should, I could drive my car on the footpath to avoid traffic, but as it’s illegal I don’t do it. Until more motorbikers show some respect to other road users and actually ride so people can see them, they will continue to gain no respect and keep becoming road kill.

obviously, it dropped my Sandman quote – that was all mine

Sandman said :

As for that cyclist that got hit by the motorbike, I guess there’s never been a cyclist hit by a car in the history of the ACT? At least he has the benefit of CTP insurance, unlike the old lady on my street who got knocked over by a cyclist who went through a red light cause he didn’t think they applied to him if he thought it was safe.[/quote>

Offhand, I can think of 5 cyclists who where KILLED by motor vehicles in the ACT over the years.
Never heard(Riotact excluded) of a pedestrian being injured by a cyclist. Guess the media and the authorities just don’t care.

OpenYourMind11:02 pm 10 Nov 11

Sandman said :

OpenYourMind said :

. Sure, you might be a little quicker at times in heavy traffic, but then you get to work and start offloading your boots, dri-riders, helmet, gloves etc. and all those car drivers have already settled down to their first cup of coffee at work.

Albeit with anywhere up to $20 per day less in their pocket due to having to pay for parking. The wife’s 1 year old bike has pretty much paid for itself already.

No motorcyclists are expecting you to keep an eye out behind you in case they come flying through at 130+. You are obligated to give sufficient indication of your intentions to change lane though. If you do that then there’s no reason for you to end up with RocketMan through your rear window. You just sit there in traffic listening to 666 and let the bikers worry about their own vulnerability. Some bike riders are dumbasses, just like some car drivers.
As for that cyclist that got hit by the motorbike, I guess there’s never been a cyclist hit by a car in the history of the ACT? At least he has the benefit of CTP insurance, unlike the old lady on my street who got knocked over by a cyclist who went through a red light cause he didn’t think they applied to him if he thought it was safe.

Sandman, you are sorely mistaken on so many counts.
Firstly, there’s lots of reasons to ride a motorcycle, but saving money is usually not a good reason. Most riders have some kind of decent crash at some point in their motorcycling ventures. The medical costs alone of a crash usually make the financial argument for a bike invalid (and sometimes the rider invalid). I love motorbikes, I get motorbikes and have had a mb licence for 25 years now. Just that if a prospective rider told me their sole reason for riding was to save money, I’d tell them to buy a cheap car instead.

Your argument about car drivers not worrying about fast motorcycles is equally poor. Even a good driver who indicates their intention, checks mirrors, does a head check is not usually expecting an idiot motorcyclist cutting through lanes at 130. There’s no obligation on the part of the driver to indicate intentions to an idiot like that as said idiot is not participating in anything like the normal flow of traffic and their erratic behaviour can’t be anticipated. Apart from the fact it scares the bejesus out of the driver, the motorcyclist usually hasn’t allowed a decent margin of error.

By the same token the cyclist who goes through the red light is breaking the law and at fault.

Cyclists and motorcyclists are a minority – a few people breaking the rules and the minority is tarred with the one brush.

OpenYourMind said :

. Sure, you might be a little quicker at times in heavy traffic, but then you get to work and start offloading your boots, dri-riders, helmet, gloves etc. and all those car drivers have already settled down to their first cup of coffee at work.

Albeit with anywhere up to $20 per day less in their pocket due to having to pay for parking. The wife’s 1 year old bike has pretty much paid for itself already.

No motorcyclists are expecting you to keep an eye out behind you in case they come flying through at 130+. You are obligated to give sufficient indication of your intentions to change lane though. If you do that then there’s no reason for you to end up with RocketMan through your rear window. You just sit there in traffic listening to 666 and let the bikers worry about their own vulnerability. Some bike riders are dumbasses, just like some car drivers.
As for that cyclist that got hit by the motorbike, I guess there’s never been a cyclist hit by a car in the history of the ACT? At least he has the benefit of CTP insurance, unlike the old lady on my street who got knocked over by a cyclist who went through a red light cause he didn’t think they applied to him if he thought it was safe.

OpenYourMind said :

That said, I ride a bicycle more often than not and I have to add a shower to my commute time too.

I don’t count that as I have a shower at home before I leave when I don’t ride.

OpenYourMind6:12 pm 10 Nov 11

You said :

As a motorcyclist let me just say that it sucks to be you.

Enjoy your slow drive to work, trololololololol!

I wouldn’t get so high and mighty. Sure, you might be a little quicker at times in heavy traffic, but then you get to work and start offloading your boots, dri-riders, helmet, gloves etc. and all those car drivers have already settled down to their first cup of coffee at work. Motorbikes: 0-100km/h in 5min – counting all the dickin’ around.

That said, I ride a bicycle more often than not and I have to add a shower to my commute time too.

I reckon a power limit could be set for the bike lane – 1kW max. That will keep away the big motorbikes and the strong cyclists who overtake me 🙂

Riding a motorcycle in the pushbike lane is not legal. That said, given the option of sitting with the rest of the cagers and potentially being smooshed between two bumpers or riding slowly in the bike lane whilst keeping a sharp eye out for pedal bikes I know which one I have and will continue to do.

Not sure what the fine for it is exactly but saw a scooter rider get done for it once.

Don’t touch my car, don’t go significantly faster than the flow of traffic. If you get caught by the police, it’s on you. My opinion anyway

As a motorcyclist let me just say that it sucks to be you.

Enjoy your slow drive to work, trololololololol!

EvanJames said :

No problem with it at all. I get to participate in the daily morning carpark between Queanbeyan and Canberra, and quite a few motorcyclers use the left hand road apron to move forward. Good on them, it doesn’t affect me, at least someone is moving.

So refreshing to read something that’s not tinged with resentment. I love to see motorbikes too; it reminds me of a time before I was pregnant and sold my bike. I used to get my Suzuki 250 up to about 60km an hour when reckless! There’s nothing better than seeing someone going really fast on a bike who is not afraid to lean into corners. They must find it strange that someone in a Camry (yes I hang my head in shame) actually sees them, let alone waves them through.

metal said :

winter said :

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

I think you’ll find that this ^ makes it a “grey area”…

Moving in between stopped traffic is not illegal – however passing on the left is.

Passing on the left isn’t illegal for a bike if they are turning right, however riding side by side in the same lane as another vehicle is.

Innovation said :

I’ve posted it before, but I think (at least small) motorcyles should be allowed to use the bicycle lane (subject to a maximum speed limit of say 20k’s). I know that there is a limit of around 250 or 300 watts for electric pushies but who could really tell if one had a 1000 watt motor (which can be bought on the net)? Is a 300+ watt bicycle really that significantly different to a 50cc scooter in terms of speed?

My pushbike, when pedalled at 300 watts, goes about 40km/h on the flat, 30 km/h on shallow inclines, and 50 km/h on shallow declines.

LootenPlunder1:32 pm 10 Nov 11

Classified said :

I don’t care so much about them using narrow parts of the road, what I truly hate is when they weave through traffic using the normal lanes at 20+km/h faster than the prevailing traffic flow. More than once I’ve indicated then started to change lanes only to have to swerve out of the way of one of these morons so as not to hit them. They’re often going quickly enough that not only can you not see them until you’ve started your lane change, but they don’t see you because they’re watching the traffic immediately in front of them.

+1… nearly had some idiot motorcyclist smooshed against the back of my car for this very reason last week. I was just about to turn right off Parkes Way and out off nowhere a motorbike zooms between me and the car in the other lane. Easily travelling at 130km+. Given the fact that I had slowed down slightly to pull to the right, he’s lucky he didn’t end up being a permanent feature of my rear window. In that scenario no one has a chance of seeing them coming. Especially given the denseness of traffic along there at 5pm… and the fact that people are travelling at varying speeds and changing lanes. I’d actually be surprised if that guy made it home in one piece that afternoon.

No problem with it at all. I get to participate in the daily morning carpark between Queanbeyan and Canberra, and quite a few motorcyclers use the left hand road apron to move forward. Good on them, it doesn’t affect me, at least someone is moving.

Some people get enraged by anybody being able to do something that they can not. Lane filtering on a motorcyle, skateboarding or enjoying ones self quietly, whatever.

At the extreme these are the same miserable people who talk about harming those doing things they cannot.

Surely there’s a nice appropriate urban word to describe this?

Thoroughly Smashed12:33 pm 10 Nov 11

metal said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Under which rule is passing on the left illegal?

i found this on the canberrariders forum but cant find the source

Rule 141 states:

141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle; or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U–turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle; or
(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.

There is no definition of “safe” so part (c) actually says it is legal to filter when the other vehicles are stationary. There is no mention of lanes, turn signals, etc.

That’s from the Australian Road Rules. I’ve always interpreted that one in the context of a car, and the rule states that overtaking on the left is legally no different to overtaking on the right. As you suggest (c) would be the exception to apply here. I couldn’t find anything about lane splitting in particular in ARR, the only rules that are even close refer to motor bikes being ridden side-by-side.

G-Fresh said :

Jealous? Get a bike.

If we banned cars we wouldn’t have this problem.

Of course, people would whinge about sidecars taking up too much lane space.

Eppo said :

Classified said :

More than once I’ve indicated then started to change lanes only to have to swerve out of the way of one of these morons so as not to hit them.

Headcheck, headcheck, headcheck. What are you going to do next time you attempt to change lanes? HEADCHECK!

Not saying you’re completely at fault in this scenario. A rider takes on additional risk if they’re weaving in and out of traffic & to me, it’s an unacceptable risk. I don’t do it. But if you aren’t doing a headcheck before changing lanes, you also have to take some of the fault. Indicate, mirrors and headcheck. Then you can start turning that wheel.

Actually, assuming that the motorcycle isn’t speeding, Classified would be completely responsible for any accident that occurred. The law says it’s the responsibility of the vehicle changing lanes to do so only when safe, and ensure that they don’t collide with another vehicle in the target lane.

Jealous? Get a bike.

Classified said :

More than once I’ve indicated then started to change lanes only to have to swerve out of the way of one of these morons so as not to hit them.

Headcheck, headcheck, headcheck. What are you going to do next time you attempt to change lanes? HEADCHECK!

Not saying you’re completely at fault in this scenario. A rider takes on additional risk if they’re weaving in and out of traffic & to me, it’s an unacceptable risk. I don’t do it. But if you aren’t doing a headcheck before changing lanes, you also have to take some of the fault. Indicate, mirrors and headcheck. Then you can start turning that wheel.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

metal said :

winter said :

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

I think you’ll find that this ^ makes it a “grey area”…

Moving in between stopped traffic is not illegal – however passing on the left is.

Under which rule is passing on the left illegal?

i found this on the canberrariders forum but cant find the source

Rule 141 states:

141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle; or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U–turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle; or
(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.

There is no definition of “safe” so part (c) actually says it is legal to filter when the other vehicles are stationary. There is no mention of lanes, turn signals, etc.

HenryBG said :

If I see a motorcycle approaching me from behind, I always try to make room for it to get past me. It’s basic good manners and it’s also commonsense – the motorcycle isn’t going to cause congestion ahead of you.
Plus I feel sorry for them – hot and sweaty, cold and wet, tired arms, no radio, face full of bugs, gravel rash. Being kind to the less fortunate is good for your karma.

+1 – The more I can do to help them get through traffic the less congested the roads are for me. I appreciate it too when people do it for me when I’m on my bike.

I’ve posted it before, but I think (at least small) motorcyles should be allowed to use the bicycle lane (subject to a maximum speed limit of say 20k’s). I know that there is a limit of around 250 or 300 watts for electric pushies but who could really tell if one had a 1000 watt motor (which can be bought on the net)? Is a 300+ watt bicycle really that significantly different to a 50cc scooter in terms of speed?

As for lane splitting/filtering. I think it should be legal provided the bikes are walked through (ie one foot is always on the ground). Again the problems only arise if motorbikes go through too quickly.

Also, on the segue re Adelaide Avenue. I think it’s funny a 50cc scooter will still be able to sit in the bus lane but not multi occupant cars.

ThatUniStudent11:03 am 10 Nov 11

I thought that “creating an extra lane of traffic” was illegal, not passing on the left.

winter said :

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

WRONG. Moving between stopped traffic is not illegal. Passing on the left is. How a motorcyclist lane splits probably makes a big difference to which side of the law the action falls on.

If I see a motorcycle approaching me from behind, I always try to make room for it to get past me. It’s basic good manners and it’s also commonsense – the motorcycle isn’t going to cause congestion ahead of you.
Plus I feel sorry for them – hot and sweaty, cold and wet, tired arms, no radio, face full of bugs, gravel rash. Being kind to the less fortunate is good for your karma.

Thoroughly Smashed10:46 am 10 Nov 11

metal said :

winter said :

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

I think you’ll find that this ^ makes it a “grey area”…

Moving in between stopped traffic is not illegal – however passing on the left is.

Under which rule is passing on the left illegal?

The only problem I have is with the car driver venting their violated sense of entitlement over the RiotACT so I have to read it. If the cycle lane was empty, I have no problems with motorbikes using it as a shoulder.

Lane splitting is risky, and I’d prefer that motorbikes didn’t do it (regardless of legal status of the manoeuvre) — but if no one’s getting harmed, I really don’t care. In fact the more car drivers get incensed about motorbikes “queue jumping”, the happier I am.

far_northact10:26 am 10 Nov 11

yes, I can confirm you do get booked for lane-splitting in the ACT. : |

carnardly said :

well, a chap riding to work about 2 weeks ago was in a green strip in town. A motorbike that possibly wanted to “beat the flow” of traffic, ducked left and went to zoom up the green strip to the front.

However, while he was breaking the law, he also collected this poor innocent cyclist from behind, flung him into the air like a rag doll and the cyclist spent a week in hospital with a severely busted leg.

Now, his next 6 months is stuffed because of the actions of this motorcyclist.

Yes, I have a problem with it.

I hope the person on the push bike is duly compensated and makes a full recovery. I trust the guy on the motorbike will be charged / disqualified appropriately as well.

I also trust that you get just as angry with cyclists who scream past pedestrians on Canberra’s shared paths at high speed with absolutely no regard for their safety? I’ve witnessed a collision in such an instance several years ago… a guy on a bike came roaring up behind some people on a level, straight section of shared path, did not give any warning until he shouted a split second before being level with them, at which point the pedestrians scurried to get out of the way, and one was collected. Pedestrian broke both arms. Hence cycling should be banned in high pedestrian activity areas?

Hardly appropriate due to the actions of a 1% minority who are idiots.

I don’t understand why sharing space is such an issue on our roads. We’ve all been taught from the age of birth to share with others… We’ve had to contend with human/wind/motor powered vessels in our water ways for centuries. Rarely seems to be an issue. Motor powered gives way to wind and human powered, human powered gives way to wind powered. Easy.

Cycle lanes could easily work the same way, with the caveat of a 20 km/h speed limit for motorcyclists? What’s the big deal?

Ahh that’s right, tall poppy syndrome from those in cars.

metal said :

winter said :

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

I think you’ll find that this ^ makes it a “grey area”…

Moving in between stopped traffic is not illegal – however passing on the left is.

Pretty hard not to pass on the left when most people hog the right lane.

winter said :

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

I think you’ll find that this ^ makes it a “grey area”…

Moving in between stopped traffic is not illegal – however passing on the left is.

Bloody Motorbikes,Nothing More Than Death Traps I Tells Ya!!

metal said :

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

Lane-splitting is against the law in the ACT. No greyness about it. I have noticed *some* policemen do turn a blind eye (or maybe they just can’t figure out how to get through the traffic to pull them over).

A motorcycle is still a cycle… Is there anything that says they can’t be used on cycle lanes?

I don’t care so much about them using narrow parts of the road, what I truly hate is when they weave through traffic using the normal lanes at 20+km/h faster than the prevailing traffic flow. More than once I’ve indicated then started to change lanes only to have to swerve out of the way of one of these morons so as not to hit them. They’re often going quickly enough that not only can you not see them until you’ve started your lane change, but they don’t see you because they’re watching the traffic immediately in front of them.

+1 to the general consensus and segue to the removal of the T2 lane on Adelaide Avenue. If cars aren’t negatively impacting the flow of bus traffic/if motorbikes aren’t negatively affecting the flow of cyclist traffic then it shouldn’t be a problem. In fact…it should be promoted.

One extra bike on the road means one extra car park available for you when you “finally” get to work

Sounds smart to me, imagine if they stayed in the line of traffic, it would take you longer to get to work.

So, in answer to your question, no.

amarooresident39:52 am 10 Nov 11

No. Why are you bothered? Do you have a safety concern or do just have the sh*ts that someone else is getting an advantage that you’re not?

No problem, as long as they don’t interfere with any cyclists using the lane. It’s better than sitting at the back of a line of traffic waiting to be rear ended by some chump who is drinking their coffee, yacking on their phone, and twiddling the knobs on the stereo instead of concentrating on what’s in front of them.

No problem at all. It means there is one less car getting in my way.

So you would prefer them to be in cars? causing even more traffic congestion?

Motorcycles “lane-splitting” is a grey area in Australia’s road rules…however everywhere else in the world it is normal.

I dont see how this is a problem for you though other than sour grapes?

well, a chap riding to work about 2 weeks ago was in a green strip in town. A motorbike that possibly wanted to “beat the flow” of traffic, ducked left and went to zoom up the green strip to the front.

However, while he was breaking the law, he also collected this poor innocent cyclist from behind, flung him into the air like a rag doll and the cyclist spent a week in hospital with a severely busted leg. Now, his next 6 months is stuffed because of the actions of this motorcyclist.

Yes, I have a problem with it.

http://www.stayupright.com.au/act.htm

Come join us! Hahahaha

But seriously, no using the cycle ways is naughty, they should be lane filtering instead 🙂

Secret Squirrel9:41 am 10 Nov 11

Not at all. How does it adversely affect my life? Good luck to them I say.

You have a problem with people increasing the flow of traffic?

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