See Gungahlin Differently

bj_ACT said :

So you mean Horse Park Drive is due for duplication ahead of Tuggers roads? The road that has less average daily usage according to traffic volume stats than the single lane Tuggeranong roads of:
Ashley Drive 23,300 per day
Erindale Drive 20,050 per day
Isabella Drive 19,850 per day
Horse Park Drive 15,350 per day

Mind you Horse Park Drive gets a lot more use than a lot of already duplicated roads in Belconnen and North Canberra.

Of course – thats what i would expect. Gunners is ACT labor heartland. Also, the MLA who replaced the beloved Katy Gallagher, Megan Fitzharris, is an active MLA, has sponsored petitions for road duplication & improvements in Gunners and actively lobbies for that – despite the soon to arrive Tram !

I wonder if that is a lesson in effective representation for the ineffective, apparently uncaring and/or apathetic Tuggeranong Labor MLAs !!! Nah, probably not………!

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

No need to dispute that as I said “90%” have no need to travel to Civic.
You are one of the remaining 10%.

Thank you, but I don’t flatter myself that I am in the minority of people who live in Tuggeranong.

Furthermore, by the logic that 90% of people from the dirty south have no need to go to the City, would that not also go for people in Belconnen or Gungahlin? How is the “need” defined? Surely with all of the infrastructure and shops in the far north, most people might like to go to the City every so often, but they don’t need to. Why is Tuggeranong receiving the brunt of the blockage from Civic?

Why are you even debating his ‘90%’? Unless he actually provides some actual evidence, it can be safely assumed he’s pulled a figure out of nowhere (to be polite) and is passing off his opinion as a stat.

Used to live in Gungahlin and certainly wont be back. While it might appeal to certain families or budgets, I cant help but shake my head that we accept such poor planning and development by our government and don’t demand better. The cramped block sizes, uncut grass, lack of trees, lack of shaded areas, poor building standards (thank to self regulation by the industry instead of our government protecting us from charlatans) ugly architecture (concrete cube with splash of lime anyone), 50 minute drive to work and if you like a social life spending your entire life commuting to other parts of Canberra. The positives are the town centre, while fugly is practical, you can get lots done in one go.

dungfungus said :

Maya123 said :

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

Twice a week for shopping and restaurants! That’s a choice, not a need. And an expensive choice.

Not all the wealthy people live in Forrest.

Of course they don’t. That said, the largest concentration of Canberra’s wealthiest people live in the Inner South (Forrest, Red Hill, Kingston, Griffith, Yarralulma, Deakin) and the Inner North (Reid, Campbell, Turner, O’Connor, Ainslie). Not to dispute that there are wealthy people living elsewhere – even Kambah has Gleneagles.

But at the end of the day, to say that the City does not belong to people who live further out not by choice but because the cost of rent and property prices is prohibitive to those who don’t earn much (and god forbid, are single and trying to do anything without a co-investor or housemate) is shortchanging both them and the notion of having a CBD/central cultural precinct.

JC said :

David M said :

Anyway, I quite like it. It’s just a shame that it’s a tough place to get out of in the morning, and back into in the afternoon. Apart from some of the roadworks on Gungahlin Drive, which are a temporary inconvenience, the Majura Parkway does a wonderful job, pity that Horse Park Drive wasn’t similarly widened to take the traffic. Funny about the way the ACT Government goes about its traffic planning, shifting choke points from one place to another.

They duplicate when the demand is there, and Horse Park Drive the demand is now there.

But interesting what you say about planning, go to Molonglo and the main road there has been built as dual carriage way, despite demand not needing it. Personally think it is a good way to go, but google it on these boards and you will find people whinging about dual carriageway roads to nowhere. Government can never win hey?

So you mean Horse Park Drive is due for duplication ahead of Tuggers roads? The road that has less average daily usage according to traffic volume stats than the single lane Tuggeranong roads of:
Ashley Drive 23,300 per day
Erindale Drive 20,050 per day
Isabella Drive 19,850 per day
Horse Park Drive 15,350 per day

Mind you Horse Park Drive gets a lot more use than a lot of already duplicated roads in Belconnen and North Canberra.

David M said :

Anyway, I quite like it. It’s just a shame that it’s a tough place to get out of in the morning, and back into in the afternoon. Apart from some of the roadworks on Gungahlin Drive, which are a temporary inconvenience, the Majura Parkway does a wonderful job, pity that Horse Park Drive wasn’t similarly widened to take the traffic. Funny about the way the ACT Government goes about its traffic planning, shifting choke points from one place to another.

They duplicate when the demand is there, and Horse Park Drive the demand is now there.

But interesting what you say about planning, go to Molonglo and the main road there has been built as dual carriage way, despite demand not needing it. Personally think it is a good way to go, but google it on these boards and you will find people whinging about dual carriageway roads to nowhere. Government can never win hey?

dungfungus said :

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

No need to dispute that as I said “90%” have no need to travel to Civic.
You are one of the remaining 10%.

Thank you, but I don’t flatter myself that I am in the minority of people who live in Tuggeranong.

Furthermore, by the logic that 90% of people from the dirty south have no need to go to the City, would that not also go for people in Belconnen or Gungahlin? How is the “need” defined? Surely with all of the infrastructure and shops in the far north, most people might like to go to the City every so often, but they don’t need to. Why is Tuggeranong receiving the brunt of the blockage from Civic?

Maya123 said :

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

Twice a week for shopping and restaurants! That’s a choice, not a need. And an expensive choice.

Not all the wealthy people live in Forrest.

I’ve been in Gungahlin since we moved to Canberra in 2002. It’s coming along. I don’t find the town centre depressing, quite utilitarian, in fact. None of Canberra’s town centres are particularly wonderful and each have their own issues of accessibility, parking and so on. At one stage the planners, who no doubt know these things (?), suggested it had more coffee shops per metre than anywhere else in the ACT. Never mind the quality, feel the width!

Anyway, I quite like it. It’s just a shame that it’s a tough place to get out of in the morning, and back into in the afternoon. Apart from some of the roadworks on Gungahlin Drive, which are a temporary inconvenience, the Majura Parkway does a wonderful job, pity that Horse Park Drive wasn’t similarly widened to take the traffic. Funny about the way the ACT Government goes about its traffic planning, shifting choke points from one place to another.

Maya123 said :

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

Twice a week for shopping and restaurants! That’s a choice, not a need. And an expensive choice.

Forgive me if I, like many other people, choose to enjoy the best offerings of our city than the Coffee Club at the Hyperdome. Or, are those aspects just for the privileged few who earn above $80k/annum and live in a 12km radius of the City Centre? Some of us are also not lucky enough to have all friends and family living in the same part of Canberra, but still enjoy being able to catch up in person.

Some things are worth the slight increase in expense.

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week.

Wow, 2x a week?!
The only time I ever go into Civic is if there’s something on at Llewellyn Hall, Street Theatre, or the Playhouse.
There is no way I will go and pay exhorbitant rates for parking in the shopping centre, when Tuggers or Woden is free, with all the exact same shops.
Nor do I want to walk around being accosted by chuggers and junkies, and having to step over foul-mouthed screaming drunken derros to get through Garema Place, which is a problem that only really exists in Civic.

I actually quite like doing my shopping in Queanbeyan. You can still get proper plastic shopping bags there and parking is free.

dungfungus said :

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

No need to dispute that as I said “90%” have no need to travel to Civic.
You are one of the remaining 10%.

What impressive statistics!

Making them up again dungers?

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

Twice a week for shopping and restaurants! That’s a choice, not a need. And an expensive choice.

madelini said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

No need to dispute that as I said “90%” have no need to travel to Civic.
You are one of the remaining 10%.

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

I would dispute the “no need to travel to the city” comment. As someone who has lived in Tuggeranong her whole life, I don’t work in the City but I do travel in at least twice a week. The shopping is better and the restaurants allow for more choice than those at the Hyperdome or Woden Plaza, and there are cheaper options than at Kingston or Manuka.

You couldn’t pay me enough to live in a McMansion in Gungahlin. I’d rather an older house with character and no restrictive covenants than in a huge, painted concrete house with a defaults list as long as my arm. It’s not about the backyards either. But then, while I am a young professional, I don’t have kids so I’m not in the target demographic for those looking to buy out there.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

90% of Tuggerangongites have no need to travel to the city anyhow.

farq said :

Buy a town house or a flat if all you care about is fast internet for your xbox or pc or whatever and you hate gardens. Flats and townhouses offer more privacy, better land use, energy efficiency and faster travel times than the mcmansion, capstone houses covering the whole block Gungarhlin is made of, besides most of belconnen has Transact fibre, VDSL2 etc, so it’s kinda a mute argument.

Yes, we all want internet for those new fandangled devices we have these days. It looks like internet is quite important to some people on here after all (http://the-riotact.com/supernode-issue-causing-poor-internet-access/160497) – although it looks like being able to add HTML to comments isn’t. Their internet may not be as fast or as reliable as the NBN out here in Gungahlin, but at least they all have a decent sized yard they can go sit in while their internet is down right?

And why can’t I live where ever I want, regardless of what purpose I want to use my house for. As with Jardeath, I too enjoy staying inside and using my computer (or xbox or whatever other garden hating things you might imagine people such as us do inside).

farq said :

Those stats sure look different if you remove our major town centre. Something I’m sure you guys in the boonies may get one day. Also just wait until those houses are not so new and all the people with some money (that only care about new things) move out and the average socioeconomic status of occupants slides down the ladder.

Future slumsville.

As someone that did a fair amount of renting in Belconnen until I bought a house out in Gungahlin, it is not entirely slum free. The flats in Hawker for example, the ghetto that is parts of Holt as another and we can’t forget the flats down on Emu Bank. Every area has it’s dodgy, run down areas and perhaps, in a decade or so Gungahlin will be the same. It is probably inevitable.

dungfungus said :

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

That is fairly obvious and explains the insular nature of many down that way. Maybe they should get out a bit more, and they might realise they are not getting as short changed as they THINK they are.

JC said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

90% of Tuggeranongites have no desire to travel to the city anyhow.

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

I am, made not secret of the fact either in other threads over the past few months. The house and the amenities of the area will suit my families needs perfectly and as mentioned above we will still have the same if not more usable land for our vegie patch, fruit trees and a reasonable amount of lawn for the kids to play on including room for a rotary hoist. Though hope the kids don’t do to that what I did to my mums, new ones these days are not as strong!

And plus I will still be closer to the city than 90% of Tuggeranong (Only parts of Kambah are closer), though for us the light rail won’t be a viable option, but think I’ve mentioned this before the light rail is there mainly to service the Flemmington Road/Northborne Ave corridor rather than the entire township of Gungahlin. Though I might be moving to work in the city soon, so on a cost rather than time basis using the EPIC Park and Ride might be a good option.

wildturkeycanoe said :

JC said :

Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

I thought we had “boundless plains to share” in our “wide brown land”, so why must we condense everything to European standards? Why squeeze everything into a compact society when we openly welcome more people into the country and we predict [and the government plans] that populations will keep rising and rising? Space is not a rare commodity in Australia, although it is limited in the A.C.T. We have millions and millions of hectares of land out there, doing nothing but growing thistles and shedding topsoil into the summer breeze.
The insistence on making house blocks tinier is nothing more than money grabbing by a greedy government. They need more revenue from the existing acreage and the only way to do that is to charge more per square meter. Putting families closer and closer to each other only lessens their privacy. When you are able to shake your neighbor’s hand through the kitchen window, it has gone too far. People need some space and privacy, without it we end up having social issues. Noise, smells, these are two examples of the things that will cause trouble between dwellings that are too close together.

Whilst our land may seem endless, it is not capable of sustaining old ways of living long term. Think of things like water for example. It takes a lot of water to keep a 800m2 block of lawn alive. Go to many older suburbs and people stopped watering during the drought in the early 2000’s and now many yards are just vast brown wastelands. But gee they have land don’t they.

Also sprawl needs additional road infrastructure to support it compared to higher density and the lower density means provision of public transport is much more problematic. Just look at complaints on this board about how Action buses meander through the burbs, the reason they do this is to get sufficent passengers to justify the service.

Again higher density isn’t for all, but frankly going forward it is the only sensible way, and as others have pointed out there is no shortage of larger blocks in existing suburbs, as well as some in new suburbs, at a premium of course. And let us not forget those wanting even bigger blocks have niche estates within a short distance where they can live the dream, if that is their dream.

OctaviusAugustus said :

JC said :

pajs said :

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

Careful, you’ll have the Tuggers contingent saying it’s not fair they don’t have the most depressing town centre now.

Must admit reading some of the comments above I thought they were talking about Tuggeranong.

No on a Summers Day Tuggeranong looks like something from a Spaghetti Weston, that said at least its not painted grey.

Yes Tuggers badly needs more deciduous shade trees – they have far less mess and dropped ‘nutrients’ for blue green algae than natives (which shed all year). I wish there was a tree planting program.

Traffic wise, I don’t care if HIbbertson Street is closed to traffic or not, its not hard to avoid going through there if you don’t like to drive there. I do think that there should be another couple of pedestrian crossings for the people walking from Franklin/Harrison to cross the road on though at Kate Crace St and Hinder St as its hard to know when is a good time to cross. Also perhaps one strategically placed for getting the bus in between those streets.
Otherwise when driving turning right onto Flemington Road from Kate Crace Street is a horrible experience in peak hour due to all the traffic coming from Flemington. I’m hoping that the Valley Ave extension will fix my issues there…

HenryBG said :

I’ll back you on that one….

Just look at it:
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/gungahlin-in-broadband-superfast-lane-20121221-2brzh.html
It boggles the mind that somebody with half-a-million to build a swish new house is going to plonk it on a postage-stamp-sized chunk of sheep paddock outside Canberra.
It already *is* a slum, and it’s going to be a hot-house for psychiatric illnesses – people on over-extended mortgages with no yard, no trees, and everything the neighbours are doing is in your face 24/7.

Exactly, you can’t escape your neighbors and their noise unless both of you live inside 24/7 and never open a window.

I’ve visited lots people in Gungahlin who’s toilet is only two wheelbarrow widths from their neighbor’s windows. I don’t want to hear people pissing.

Jardeath said :

Ah the classic large back yard thing, that’s still something the older generation care about, I suppose.

Just because you enjoy a backyard doesn’t mean everyone else does, wants, or even cares at all about this. I moved to Gungahlin purely for NBN FTTH almost 2 years ago now, as this was my priority. A lot of the work I do both personally and professionally requires a good Internet connection.

I literally don’t care about what’s outside my house at all, even the garden that I have is too much for me to bother wasting time with, the sooner it can be cemented over the better. What a waste of time in maintenance for something I don’t even look at or have any interest in. I consider it to be a fairly average size and would be perfectly happy if it were 1/4 of the current size.

Buy a town house or a flat if all you care about is fast internet for your xbox or pc or whatever and you hate gardens. Flats and townhouses offer more privacy, better land use, energy efficiency and faster travel times than the mcmansion, capstone houses covering the whole block Gungarhlin is made of, besides most of belconnen has Transact fibre, VDSL2 etc, so it’s kinda a mute argument.

Jardeath said :

Speaking of the crime rates you mention – ouch, looks like Belconnen has more than double the amount of reported incidents compared to Gungahlin.

http://www.police.act.gov.au/crime-and-safety/crime-statistics

Perhaps everyone was too busy outside in the backyard to notice?

Those stats sure look different if you remove our major town centre. Something I’m sure you guys in the boonies may get one day. Also just wait until those houses are not so new and all the people with some money (that only care about new things) move out and the average socioeconomic status of occupants slides down the ladder.

Future slumsville.

HenryBG said :

Nilrem said :

Jardeath said :

I moved to Gungahlin purely for NBN FTTH almost 2 years ago now, as this was my priority.

I literally don’t care about what’s outside my house at all, even the garden that I have is too much for me to bother wasting time with, the sooner it can be cemented over the better.

I enjoy spending time in my back yard. Call me weird but I like plants, trees and fresh air.

Oops, attributions all wrong, although I blame Nilrem for causing it…

Apologies for being unable to master the quotations. No apologies for my weirdness. 🙂

Nilrem said :

Jardeath said :

I moved to Gungahlin purely for NBN FTTH almost 2 years ago now, as this was my priority.

I literally don’t care about what’s outside my house at all, even the garden that I have is too much for me to bother wasting time with, the sooner it can be cemented over the better.

I enjoy spending time in my back yard. Call me weird but I like plants, trees and fresh air.

Oops, attributions all wrong, although I blame Nilrem for causing it…

Nilrem said :

farq said :

I moved to Gungahlin purely for NBN FTTH almost 2 years ago now, as this was my priority.

I literally don’t care about what’s outside my house at all, even the garden that I have is too much for me to bother wasting time with, the sooner it can be cemented over the better.

I enjoy spending time in my back yard. Call me weird but I like plants, trees and fresh air.

I wouldn’t worry, Nilrem.
However good it is to be weird, you’re definitely not the weirdest.

Jardeath said :

farq said :

Ah the classic large back yard thing, that’s still something the older generation care about, I suppose.

Just because you enjoy a backyard doesn’t mean everyone else does, wants, or even cares at all about this. I moved to Gungahlin purely for NBN FTTH almost 2 years ago now, as this was my priority. A lot of the work I do both personally and professionally requires a good Internet connection.

I literally don’t care about what’s outside my house at all, even the garden that I have is too much for me to bother wasting time with, the sooner it can be cemented over the better. What a waste of time in maintenance for something I don’t even look at or have any interest in. I consider it to be a fairly average size and would be perfectly happy if it were 1/4 of the current size.

Let’s flip your opinion based argument around. It sounds like you’re trying to justify why you purchased additional empty land, when you could have had more nice indoor space. I’m honestly trying to imagine anyone that would just casually stroll outside and sit there looking into their backyard, sounds pretty nice and worth paying more for – nope not for me.

I enjoy spending time in my back yard. Call me weird but I like plants, trees and fresh air.

farq said :

20 years from now, all these new suburbs will be the slums of Canberra, while the old garden suburbs will be an expensive paradise everyone else wish they had bought into.

I’ll back you on that one.
I went out there when I was looking at buying a new house – They had a row of display homes near what is now the shopping centre – I found one that seemed quite good and told the builder I really liked his design, “it’ll really work on a regular-sized block that does it justice”, and he said, “*this* is a big block”. Needless to say, it was a micro-block, and they wanted something like $250k for it.
Never went back.
The whole thing is a disaster.

Just look at it:
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/gungahlin-in-broadband-superfast-lane-20121221-2brzh.html
It boggles the mind that somebody with half-a-million to build a swish new house is going to plonk it on a postage-stamp-sized chunk of sheep paddock outside Canberra.
It already *is* a slum, and it’s going to be a hot-house for psychiatric illnesses – people on over-extended mortgages with no yard, no trees, and everything the neighbours are doing is in your face 24/7.

farq said :

all these people defending micro blocks just have the buyers remorse.

They wanted a ‘new’ house and that was all that mattered to them.

If they could afford a kind of new house on a normal sized block, they would take it. Don’t let all this talk about living well in <450m2 fool you. They are just saying that to make themselves feel better.

Small blocks result in houses right up against the fence. With their neighboring houses also built right up against the fence.

No one has solar orientated their houses (because then they could not build right up to the 50% occupancy ratio). Everyone's bedrooms are at most 3m from their neighbors bedrooms. No one came sleep at night with their windows open without hearing what goes on next door.

Thank you, but I'll give all the suburbs of Gungahlin a miss and keep my big Belconnen block with it's solar orientated house and my bedroom windows with privacy from next door.

Sure I need to add a ensuite, but it's a small price to pay to not live the cramped Gungahlin lifestyle with cars parked all over the street and surrounded by people that convince themselves they got a good deal (when in reality they are just fodder to deliver profit to developers and the government).

Enjoy your horrible traffic, long commute, crime and cramped lifestyle. I'll enjoy the space of my backyard, nice gardens and quick travel times.

20 years from now, all these new suburbs will be the slums of Canberra, while the old garden suburbs will be an expensive paradise everyone else wish they had bought into.

I’ve lived in Gungahlin for almost 2 years now, my block is >450m2 so I guess I’m safe going by your opinions. Only 10km out from the city, which is a lot closer than the majority of Belconnen. According to Google maps, the far back side of Belconnen is about the same distance as the back of Gungahlin, so the actual distance to travel actually seems to be quite comparable. I suppose you may have slightly more roads, for now anyway.

Regarding travel time, during morning peak traffic times on weekdays the bus timetable only shows a 5-7 minute difference between Belconnen bus interchange vs Gungahlin bus interchange going into the city. Considering the Gungahlin one is a few more km out it doesn’t seem like there’s much difference despite your apparent superior roads.

Ah the classic large back yard thing, that’s still something the older generation care about, I suppose.

Just because you enjoy a backyard doesn’t mean everyone else does, wants, or even cares at all about this. I moved to Gungahlin purely for NBN FTTH almost 2 years ago now, as this was my priority. A lot of the work I do both personally and professionally requires a good Internet connection.

I literally don’t care about what’s outside my house at all, even the garden that I have is too much for me to bother wasting time with, the sooner it can be cemented over the better. What a waste of time in maintenance for something I don’t even look at or have any interest in. I consider it to be a fairly average size and would be perfectly happy if it were 1/4 of the current size.

Let’s flip your opinion based argument around. It sounds like you’re trying to justify why you purchased additional empty land, when you could have had more nice indoor space. I’m honestly trying to imagine anyone that would just casually stroll outside and sit there looking into their backyard, sounds pretty nice and worth paying more for – nope not for me.

As you may hopefully have picked up, people are different and want different things. I have absolutely no interest in having a large backyard, I don’t like the things you do so I must have buyers remorse? Perhaps my money is better spent elsewhere in areas that I will actually value.

Speaking of the crime rates you mention – ouch, looks like Belconnen has more than double the amount of reported incidents compared to Gungahlin.

http://www.police.act.gov.au/crime-and-safety/crime-statistics

Perhaps everyone was too busy outside in the backyard to notice?

all these people defending micro blocks just have the buyers remorse.

They wanted a ‘new’ house and that was all that mattered to them.

If they could afford a kind of new house on a normal sized block, they would take it. Don’t let all this talk about living well in <450m2 fool you. They are just saying that to make themselves feel better.

Small blocks result in houses right up against the fence. With their neighboring houses also built right up against the fence.

No one has solar orientated their houses (because then they could not build right up to the 50% occupancy ratio). Everyone's bedrooms are at most 3m from their neighbors bedrooms. No one came sleep at night with their windows open without hearing what goes on next door.

Thank you, but I'll give all the suburbs of Gungahlin a miss and keep my big Belconnen block with it's solar orientated house and my bedroom windows with privacy from next door.

Sure I need to add a ensuite, but it's a small price to pay to not live the cramped Gungahlin lifestyle with cars parked all over the street and surrounded by people that convince themselves they got a good deal (when in reality they are just fodder to deliver profit to developers and the government).

Enjoy your horrible traffic, long commute, crime and cramped lifestyle. I'll enjoy the space of my backyard, nice gardens and quick travel times.

20 years from now, all these new suburbs will be the slums of Canberra, while the old garden suburbs will be an expensive paradise everyone else wish they had bought into.

JC said :

Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

I thought we had “boundless plains to share” in our “wide brown land”, so why must we condense everything to European standards? Why squeeze everything into a compact society when we openly welcome more people into the country and we predict [and the government plans] that populations will keep rising and rising? Space is not a rare commodity in Australia, although it is limited in the A.C.T. We have millions and millions of hectares of land out there, doing nothing but growing thistles and shedding topsoil into the summer breeze.
The insistence on making house blocks tinier is nothing more than money grabbing by a greedy government. They need more revenue from the existing acreage and the only way to do that is to charge more per square meter. Putting families closer and closer to each other only lessens their privacy. When you are able to shake your neighbor’s hand through the kitchen window, it has gone too far. People need some space and privacy, without it we end up having social issues. Noise, smells, these are two examples of the things that will cause trouble between dwellings that are too close together.

JC said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Sounds like you are building another MacMansion in Gungahlin.

JC said :

pajs said :

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

Careful, you’ll have the Tuggers contingent saying it’s not fair they don’t have the most depressing town centre now.

Must admit reading some of the comments above I thought they were talking about Tuggeranong.

No on a Summers Day Tuggeranong looks like something from a Spaghetti Weston, that said at least its not painted grey.

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

It is how you use the space that matters not how big it is.

My current home, 15 years old the block is 500m2. We have an 110m2 house+double garage and 20m2 deck. Our garden has 15 rose bushes, an apple tree, 3 citrus tree’s, a 3x5m vegie patch and a border garden in the back yard of natives and 250m2 of grass for the kids to run around and play on and did I mention a rotry clothes line.

We are building a new house also on a 500m2 block, that will have an even bigger back yard. Done by having a double story house, meaning the ground footprint is slightly less than the current house, but overall house size 75% bigger. The new house is sited reasonably close to the foot path (about 5m) but being a cul-de-sac road noise won’t be an issue. Hence the back yard will be about 50% bigger than out existing one, which is more than enough for 2 kids aged 4 and 5.

But I do recognise that even this isn’t enough for everyone, so don’t begrudge anyway who wants the older style 800+ blocks. The point I have been making is just because some want that doesn’t mean that everyone else is being forced into it by the government. Look around the country and indeed the world and smaller is where people are heading. So IMO planning is reflective of modern day standards as opposed to some big conspiracy to make more money for the government and developers.

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

One doesn’t need a 1,000 sq metre block for that (as some others are suggesting). I had all that on a 450sq metre block. Good sized vegetable garden where I grew most of my vegetables, decorative garden, several fruit trees and vines, a rotary clothesline, enough lawn, a garden shed, a car port (could have been converted to a garage). This all fitted, because the house was an older house and not modern McManion size.

Many of these pro massive yard comments make me wonder if people have forgotten their childhoods. Growing up, we always had a decent sized yard and so did most of my friends but we rarely ever played in them (other than the occasional trampoline phases we had). Most of our time was spent out in the neighbourhood riding our bikes or playing on playground equipment across the road. If we were especially lucky we found or were given a couple of dollars and walked or rode up to the shops to buy some lollies or chips or.. for some reason, bouncy balls, we really loved those.

I recall doing this from about the age of 6 – 11, at which point I started becoming the typical teenager who preferred to sleep and stay inside. We also did all this without supervision of parents in most cases. We’d get up early in the morning, leave a note in the kitchen saying where we were and come back later in the afternoon.

This wasn’t that long ago, spanning most of the 90’s.

Is the issue these days that parents are too scared to let their kids out of their sights and would prefer to push the kids to the backyards so they don’t have to vigilently supervise them or walk to the park with them?

In regards to playing areas and ovals, in my suburb across the road there are a few ovals. Every winter weeknight and weekend there are people training/playing soccer and during the summer it is cricket so they are used ALL THE TIME. And we also have a park which some equipment, shade, seats and bbqs and people are always over there too. They’re not these desolate areas that no one uses.

In relation to the mentions of what people like doing in their yard (having friends over, growing flowers/vegetables etc) I can do all that in my front and back yard if I wanted to. I also have multiple trees in the front yard and, as far as I’m concerned, too many plants which one day I’d love to rip out. Why does the space have to be huge to do these things?

I do, however, have a wall clothesline, but I have no issue with it because it is in quite a sunny spot. My Mum over in Palmerston has a normal clothesline in her backyard so I guess it’s mostly down to what was put in when the place was built.

rommeldog56 said :

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

Good observations Charlotte. However, I wonder just how much these benefits are acknowledged in this new, emerging infilled/high density “grown up” Canberra !

Other turn offs to “downsizing” into a unit or a townhouse are the often poor aesthetic’s and design of these in Canberra (especially units), quality of construction is often quite poor and the cost of body corporate fees.

Poor aesthetic’s what?

HenryBG said :

JC said :

The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

So, how is the “planning” catering for people who *do* want backyards?
People who want to grow their own vegies?
People who want space for their children to play outside, and for their pets?

Answer? It isn’t. Those least able to afford a decent sized block are the ones who need it most: people with children, and people with the time on their hands for gardening.
Catering 100% for yuppies who want to live in townhouses is not “planning”, it is the opposite.

The ‘backyard’ suburbs are also much quieter, more private and less stressful. Planning even a little more room to enable residents to screen out neighbours and plant a shade tree would make good sense.

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

Good observations Charlotte. However, I wonder just how much these benefits are acknowledged in this new, emerging infilled/high density “grown up” Canberra ! Other turn offs to “downsizing” into a unit or a townhouse are the often poor aesthetic’s and design of these in Canberra (especially units), quality of construction is often quite poor and the cost of body corporate fees.

Charlotte Harper said :

All good points (especially the one about garden maintenance). As for why people like big back yards, here are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head: so the dog has space to run around, so the family can play backyard cricket, so there can be trees with shade to sit under, so the kids can play under the sprinklers in summer, for camping practice runs, for kids’ birthday party games, so you can dry the washing on a Hills Hoist which is so much more effective than a wall line, so you can have a veggie patch, so the kids can have a small patch of garden to grow plants of their choice, so you can grow herbs and fruit trees as well as flowers.

Don’t forget the backyard inflatable pool in summer, having friends over for barbecues, somewhere to park the tinny and a bit of green space which helps to cool the house down instead of hot, reflective concrete or pavers.
Kids who grow up in apartments, especially young kids, will spend their days in front of the TV or their ipads, instead of kicking a soccer ball around, throwing a tennis ball to each other, getting dirty in the sandpit or catching bugs in the garden. It isn’t until they are almost teenagers you can let them go by themselves to the local park [which for the most part is just black safety rubber and reeds, not grass]. By then they will not even have a desire to play anymore. There is little to be lost and a lot to be gained by having a large backyard, but money and profits are ruining the lives of future generations. Just look at the sports ovals around town in the afternoons. Do you see many children out there playing ball? Can you see them building forts and playing Star Wars with sricks for light sabers? Nah! They’re all inside glued to technology because there is no room in the backyard, no fun in the clinically designed courtyard devoid of trees, flowers and animal life.
I grew up with a 1000m²+ sized yard, with a dog and chickens. I could ride my bike around the yard all afternoon, play cricket, jump on the swing and kick a soccer ball everywhere. We had a sandpit, could go under the house to play hide and seek, explored Dad’s big shed that housed everything from the boat, lawnmower, motorbikes and rotary tiller to our sauna, thew wood pile and the attic with all the cardboard boxes, old bottles and cans, spare parts from cars and my old school workbooks. The backyard was an adventure playground as well as a garden and many different fruit trees, a barbecue area that doubled as clothes drying in winter, plus carport for two cars. I even had room to learn how to ride a motorbike, which came in very handy. I wouldn’t have given that way for anything. Even at the age of 40+, I can remember the games and enjoyment I had as a kid in my parent’s backyard and only hope my little square of green here in Canberra can open up the same magical world for my kids.

HenryBG said :

JC said :

The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

So, how is the “planning” catering for people who *do* want backyards?
People who want to grow their own vegies?
People who want space for their children to play outside, and for their pets?

Answer? It isn’t. Those least able to afford a decent sized block are the ones who need it most: people with children, and people with the time on their hands for gardening.
Catering 100% for yuppies who want to live in townhouses is not “planning”, it is the opposite.

The idea is for larger communal open spaces, rather than every individual dwelling having a large, private open space. It’s meant (note meant) to provide more efficient use of the land, whilst still maintaining amenity for residents.

Under the new paradigm, private city land is a scarce resource, if you want lots of it, you’ll have to pay lots for it.

There are plenty of big yards around Canberra but usually they are way out or close in. Easy enough for people who want them although they will cost. They cost the people who want to buy them, they cost the taxpayer who subsidises their commute in, they cost the planet in resources.

Please don’t gripe about people who don’t want big blocks for not wanting them. That’s a ludicrous and illogical position.

farq said :

Still no one can argue against the fact that the increase in Gungahlin’s density it crazy seeing how far away it is and the crap roads it got. If you want a small block, you should be living closer to the city, not way out in the boonies. People like me who want some space should be living further out.

Canberra planning is backwards.

I’m not sure what you consider to be out in the boonies.. it’s 10km from my house (in a suburb of Gungahlin) to the city, it’s 14km to Belconnen and 16km to the airport… not exactly in the middle of no where.

And, as with JC, I don’t really care if I have a massive backyard or not. In fact, it’s preferable to not.. I’m not much for garden maintenance. And, if the multitudes of kids around the area are anything to go by, they don’t miss having big yards either. The go riding bikes or play in the park and are happy.

I don’t know why some people are so dead set on the need for massive blocks and yards to bring up their kids in. A lot of kids are brought up in apartments and flats and I’m sure they’re just fine.

Why should I have to live in an apartment or something similar in the city because I don’t want a large yard? What if I also don’t want to deal with the noise of the city?

And mostly, if you don’t like the size of blocks in Gungahlin or how the shops look or whatever the problem is, don’t live there. It’s as easy as that, why does it effect people so much how other people choose to live?

Oh and lastly, I have no issues with how the gungahlin shopping area is set out.. except that the Woolworths building doesn’t really have much going for it.. other than Woolworths.

farq said :

Still no one can argue against the fact that the increase in Gungahlin's density it crazy seeing how far away it is and the crap roads it got. If you want a small block, you should be living closer to the city, not way out in the boonies. People like me who want some space should be living further out.

Canberra planning is backwards.

I’m not sure what you consider to be out in the boonies.. it’s 10km from my house (in a suburb of Gungahlin) to the city, it’s 14km to Belconnen and 16km

JC said :

The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

So, how is the “planning” catering for people who *do* want backyards?
People who want to grow their own vegies?
People who want space for their children to play outside, and for their pets?

Answer? It isn’t. Those least able to afford a decent sized block are the ones who need it most: people with children, and people with the time on their hands for gardening.
Catering 100% for yuppies who want to live in townhouses is not “planning”, it is the opposite.

AndrewA said :

Although I see the arguments for closing off the street it certainly isn’t something that should be done without a lot of research into the potential impacts. Many argue that City Walk should be RE-opened up to traffic to revitalise its somewhat ‘dead’ atmosphere.

Ofcourse, gungahlin town centre is it’s own entity yet nevertheless closing off the street risks severely quietening that buzz and atmosphere of the region. The last thing we want another city walk with plenty of pedestrian space but not so many pedestrians.

From what I have seen in locations overseas, I think one way traffic at a very slow speed around shopping centre’s provides better traffic/pedestrian interaction. Definitely easier to cross a one way road than say the new shared area in Civic.

Some city streets such as the Stroget in Copenhagen work amazingly well, but City Walk is currently a pretty poor shopping experience (no wonder the better traders move into the mall). I just wish the charity muggers would move with them, they are getting worse by the day.

Although I see the arguments for closing off the street it certainly isn’t something that should be done without a lot of research into the potential impacts. Many argue that City Walk should be RE-opened up to traffic to revitalise its somewhat ‘dead’ atmosphere.

Ofcourse, gungahlin town centre is it’s own entity yet nevertheless closing off the street risks severely quietening that buzz and atmosphere of the region. The last thing we want another city walk with plenty of pedestrian space but not so many pedestrians.

chewy14 said :

farq said :

rubaiyat said :

farq said :

When Labor drags the rest of Canberra down to the standard set by Gungahlin so they can make more money for their developer mates I’m moving to Yass.

You are blaming Labor for Gungahlin which was created by the previous Liberal Government?

But now I have pointed that out, you will of course slam the Liberals!

Or maybe not. 😉

Nope you failed at reading the comment before you went off. I blamed Labor for dragging the rest of Canberra down to the poor standard set by Gungahlin 🙂

JC said :

..The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

….going on elsewhere in our major cities.

Pity for those of us who did not follow the good jobs to sydney because we wanted something close to what we grew up with (houses not <2m from the neighbors). You may prefer it, but why is it the only option?

As for going on in other cities, Canberra was supposed to be a planned city that avoided the short sighted mistakes of others, not just repeat them.

I blame too many blow-ins coming here with low expectations about what a suburban block should be.

Still no one can argue against the fact that the increase in Gungahlin's density it crazy seeing how far away it is and the crap roads it got. If you want a small block, you should be living closer to the city, not way out in the boonies. People like me who want some space should be living further out.

Canberra planning is backwards.

So riddle me this, how exactly do you make smaller inner city blocks when they were once the larger outer suburban blocks that people like you bought because they wanted some space?

Urban infill. But then you would have done on this board complaining about poor planning, others would complain increasing the density so close will cause traffic issues and if you suggest transport options to make it more viable others would complain about the cost and subsidising other parts of Canberra whilst supposedly being neglected. Loose loose all round. But hey that’s the riot-act isn’t it?

farq said :

rubaiyat said :

farq said :

When Labor drags the rest of Canberra down to the standard set by Gungahlin so they can make more money for their developer mates I’m moving to Yass.

You are blaming Labor for Gungahlin which was created by the previous Liberal Government?

But now I have pointed that out, you will of course slam the Liberals!

Or maybe not. 😉

Nope you failed at reading the comment before you went off. I blamed Labor for dragging the rest of Canberra down to the poor standard set by Gungahlin 🙂

JC said :

..The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

….going on elsewhere in our major cities.

Pity for those of us who did not follow the good jobs to sydney because we wanted something close to what we grew up with (houses not <2m from the neighbors). You may prefer it, but why is it the only option?

As for going on in other cities, Canberra was supposed to be a planned city that avoided the short sighted mistakes of others, not just repeat them.

I blame too many blow-ins coming here with low expectations about what a suburban block should be.

Still no one can argue against the fact that the increase in Gungahlin's density it crazy seeing how far away it is and the crap roads it got. If you want a small block, you should be living closer to the city, not way out in the boonies. People like me who want some space should be living further out.

Canberra planning is backwards.

So riddle me this, how exactly do you make smaller inner city blocks when they were once the larger outer suburban blocks that people like you bought because they wanted some space?

montana said :

So funny to see all the hate that gunghalin gets on RA, yet the area is always booming with growth. Maybe people are just jealous of the close proximity to Dickson and Civic and EPIC and Mitchell and easy access to Majura park and IKEA and airport and we get to live in our new, modern homes with lock up garage and ensuite as the norm.

I love gungahlin. love the town centre. has all the shops I need.

I like it how its not a huge enclosed mall, it lets you potentially park at the doorstep of where you want to go.

I really dont know why you would want to close hibberson street, traffic seems to flow just fine for me, and cars always have the choice of not going through there if they don’t want to. Pedestrians have 3 crossings they can use, and its a 40k zone so its pretty easy to cross without one.

This might sound strange but i think having traffic pass through there creates an atmosphere for the street side coffee shops. Please dont make us have to drive all the way around a huge block just to get to the other side, those streets will be conjested and create new problems.

Maybe put some pedestrian lights at the woolies crossing, and have left turn only signs at the aust post intersection coming onto hibberson st.

I hear Kmart underground parking will have another 1300 spaces! that is incredible.

oh did i mention the parking is FREE everywhere around here?

I contend that the people who criticize others about inanities, no matter whether it is the place where people choose to live, or the type of hat they wear or the car they drive or what meat they put on their sandwiches, are crying out for help about their own circumstances which make them desperately unhappy.

It’s not jealousy or bitterness it’s just sadness. So when they bash Gunners, it’s a case of ‘Are you ok?’

rubaiyat said :

farq said :

When Labor drags the rest of Canberra down to the standard set by Gungahlin so they can make more money for their developer mates I’m moving to Yass.

You are blaming Labor for Gungahlin which was created by the previous Liberal Government?

But now I have pointed that out, you will of course slam the Liberals!

Or maybe not. 😉

Nope you failed at reading the comment before you went off. I blamed Labor for dragging the rest of Canberra down to the poor standard set by Gungahlin 🙂

JC said :

..The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

….going on elsewhere in our major cities.

Pity for those of us who did not follow the good jobs to sydney because we wanted something close to what we grew up with (houses not <2m from the neighbors). You may prefer it, but why is it the only option?

As for going on in other cities, Canberra was supposed to be a planned city that avoided the short sighted mistakes of others, not just repeat them.

I blame too many blow-ins coming here with low expectations about what a suburban block should be.

Still no one can argue against the fact that the increase in Gungahlin's density it crazy seeing how far away it is and the crap roads it got. If you want a small block, you should be living closer to the city, not way out in the boonies. People like me who want some space should be living further out.

Canberra planning is backwards.

rubaiyat said :

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

Really?

You haven’t been down Northbourne Ave in the City, or anywhere in Belconnen, or Tuggeranong Town Centres, nor the up and coming Molonglo?

By comparison to any of those Hibberson Street in Gugahlin is a sheer delight, although in this weather hot as hell due to excessive concrete and bitumen paving.

‘Old’ Canberra has it over anywhere newer because of the deciduous trees as street plantings and in local parks. IMHO the number one planning priority for everywhere in Canberra is to increase the density of good long lived, deciduous shade tree species appropriate for our climate (NOT eucalypts or corymbias which while great in the bush are terrible in cities, being relatively short lived, un-shady in summer and too shady in winter, difficult to grow anything under them, drop litter all year round and big limbs, etc).

I actually agree with Hibberson St being closed off to local traffic. It was a much safer environment for pedestrians while it was closed a few months back. HOWEVER in saying that, the road should remain open for the Buses and Taxis.

I agree with Montana that a lot of intersections should be left turn only. Several areas are congested because cars are stuck at a stale mate with 2 cars wanting to turn right, but both have blocked the turn.

Don’t even get me started about Ernest Cavanagh during the dinner time peak hour. Cars will be backed up in both directions to get into the Maccas and KFC carparks. Rule of thumb peeps, enter the street so you only have to turn LEFT.

So funny to see all the hate that gunghalin gets on RA, yet the area is always booming with growth. Maybe people are just jealous of the close proximity to Dickson and Civic and EPIC and Mitchell and easy access to Majura park and IKEA and airport and we get to live in our new, modern homes with lock up garage and ensuite as the norm.

I love gungahlin. love the town centre. has all the shops I need.

I like it how its not a huge enclosed mall, it lets you potentially park at the doorstep of where you want to go.

I really dont know why you would want to close hibberson street, traffic seems to flow just fine for me, and cars always have the choice of not going through there if they don’t want to. Pedestrians have 3 crossings they can use, and its a 40k zone so its pretty easy to cross without one.

This might sound strange but i think having traffic pass through there creates an atmosphere for the street side coffee shops. Please dont make us have to drive all the way around a huge block just to get to the other side, those streets will be conjested and create new problems.

Maybe put some pedestrian lights at the woolies crossing, and have left turn only signs at the aust post intersection coming onto hibberson st.

I hear Kmart underground parking will have another 1300 spaces! that is incredible.

oh did i mention the parking is FREE everywhere around here?

pajs said :

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

Careful, you’ll have the Tuggers contingent saying it’s not fair they don’t have the most depressing town centre now.

Must admit reading some of the comments above I thought they were talking about Tuggeranong.

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

Careful, you’ll have the Tuggers contingent saying it’s not fair they don’t have the most depressing town centre now.

wildturkeycanoe said :

The things that make Gunners town centre so miserable are firstly, that it is all concrete. The few measly trees in the open spaces don’t make it any less bland due to the uninterrupted grey. There’s no grass, no colour, no life.

One has to wonder if the same “planners” responsible for that will also be responsible for approving the developments along the new higher density, infilled tram corridor………

The things that make Gunners town centre so miserable are firstly, that it is all concrete. The few measly trees in the open spaces don’t make it any less bland due to the uninterrupted grey. There’s no grass, no colour, no life. The second folly is having the shops spread across so many mini malls. To visit all 3 major supermarkets you have to walk a long way, out in the exposed vastness of summer heat or winter rain and wind. That or move the car three times. Pushing a fully loaded trolley across the uneven pavers that stretch between the complexes is downright agony. Then you have to take the trolley all the way back again, adding another kilometer to the exhausting ordeal. It started well with the idwa of the “G”, but adding a small “g”, then an “f” and so on simply ruined the concept of a shopping hub.

joingler said :

I don’t like the idea of closing the main street of Gungahlin to all vehicular traffic. I think public transport (including taxis), cyclists and emergency transport only should be free to use it whilst all other traffic gets diverted to Anthony Rolfe or The Valley Way

Agreed. I think it should be public transport only.. or at the least, get rid of the road side parking.

farq said :

I’d live anywhere else in Canberra but Gungahlin.

Gungahlin was the beginning of the end for decent road planning and adequate block sizes in Canberra. The start of the stripping back of everything that made Canberra different, special and a great place to live.

When Labor drags the rest of Canberra down to the standard set by Gungahlin so they can make more money for their developer mates I’m moving to Yass.

Why is it the further from the city (and jobs/shops) you get the smaller the block sizes get? Labor has town planning backwards.

You are blaming Labor for Gungahlin which was created by the previous Liberal Government?

But now I have pointed that out, you will of course slam the Liberals!

Or maybe not. 😉

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

Really?

You haven’t been down Northbourne Ave in the City, or anywhere in Belconnen, or Tuggeranong Town Centres, nor the up and coming Molonglo?

By comparison to any of those Hibberson Street in Gugahlin is a sheer delight, although in this weather hot as hell due to excessive concrete and bitumen paving.

joingler said :

I don’t like the idea of closing the main street of Gungahlin to all vehicular traffic. I think public transport (including taxis), cyclists and emergency transport only should be free to use it whilst all other traffic gets diverted to Anthony Rolfe or The Valley Way

Flemmington road should never ever have lead into the town centre like it has. It should have connected to Anthony Rolf Ave and then onto Mirrabai drive. Forming a link to the town centre and the residential sections of the Gungahlin Suburb. And provided a link that avoids the town centre for those west of Gundaroo Drive.

farq said :

I’d live anywhere else in Canberra but Gungahlin.

Gungahlin was the beginning of the end for decent road planning and adequate block sizes in Canberra. The start of the stripping back of everything that made Canberra different, special and a great place to live.

When Labor drags the rest of Canberra down to the standard set by Gungahlin so they can make more money for their developer mates I’m moving to Yass.

Why is it the further from the city (and jobs/shops) you get the smaller the block sizes get? Labor has town planning backwards.

It’s nothing to do with Labor/Liberal or perceived poor planning. The small blocks etc is a reflection of how planning has gone through the whole country over the past 1/4 century and is a reflection of changing demand and the way people use land.

I am a perfect case in point I don’t want a yard the size of the ones my parents had in this day and age.

It’s not for all that’s for sure but long bow to blame a specific political party. Especially when the ‘other’ party has been in power for 8 years on and off during the revolution of Gungahlin and did nothing either. Then again refer to the point above we are just reflecting what is going on elsewhere in our major cities.

I’d live anywhere else in Canberra but Gungahlin.

Gungahlin was the beginning of the end for decent road planning and adequate block sizes in Canberra. The start of the stripping back of everything that made Canberra different, special and a great place to live.

When Labor drags the rest of Canberra down to the standard set by Gungahlin so they can make more money for their developer mates I’m moving to Yass.

Why is it the further from the city (and jobs/shops) you get the smaller the block sizes get? Labor has town planning backwards.

I don’t like the idea of closing the main street of Gungahlin to all vehicular traffic. I think public transport (including taxis), cyclists and emergency transport only should be free to use it whilst all other traffic gets diverted to Anthony Rolfe or The Valley Way

OctaviusAugustus said :

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?

When did Belconnen get its makeover? I must have missed it.

Gungahlin town centre is the most depressing place in Canberra. Why must the whole place be painted grey?