"STOP" and "BUS ONLY" Signs!!!

Gobbo said :

So you have you STOP issue all tied up Krats. Like to say something about BUS ONLY lanes now? Or are you just going to forget you brought that one up seeing as you were wrong?

:D[/quote

How the Duck do you figure I was wrong.”BUS ONLY” means just that BUSES ONLY.NOT “P” platers or DO GOODIE’S or dare I say it 1/2 wits,The lane I referred to was BUS only Lane(look it up).A bus is a big orange/green thing,sometimes it has humans on it.

I love the irony of people on this forum (this one specifically) telling someone to “breathe” or “relax” or that “surely you’ve got better things to do?”

I’m sure we’ve all got a bit pent up and blown our noodles about some trivial little comment someone has posted here – at least what krats has described could be considered an actual, existing problem in Canberra (assuming, of course, that any of us cared) 🙂

So you have you STOP issue all tied up Krats. Like to say something about BUS ONLY lanes now? Or are you just going to forget you brought that one up seeing as you were wrong?

😀

krats said :

Set your alarm 15 minutes earlier.Then no rush,…and plenty of time to sit at “STOP” signs and wait for a safe entry to your busy road.Problem solved (LIFE SAVED).

I think the issue is that the Stop signs aren’t necessary. It’s similar to the almost blanket refusal of Canberra traffic lights to allow you to turn right across a lane of traffic without a green arrow. Traffic in Canberra is far less than in pretty much any other major Australian city, yet Canberrans alone are not trusted to turn right without a green arrow.

(Of course, Canberrans are generally incompetent drivers who are most likely unable to turn right without a green arrow, but hey)

Set your alarm 15 minutes earlier.Then no rush,…and plenty of time to sit at “STOP” signs and wait for a safe entry to your busy road.Problem solved (LIFE SAVED).

JC said :

Jethro said :

One could argue that some stop signs make things more dangerous, as the person driving has to now pull out into traffic without any momentum behind them and will have less acceleration. Particularly true for stop signs that are in places where there is a clear unobstructed view.

That being said, I am not one who partakes in the rolling-stop. Adherence to road rules is a black and white issue for me (even when the rule is in a grey area)

Don’t think your example is a good one. If the intersection is that dangerous you need momentum to get through than a give way won’t help, it will lead to more people getting cleaned up. The whole idea of the stop sign is to make you have a good hard think and have a good look. Not stopping and then gunning it to get through.

I probably didn’t express myself too well. I’m thinking of an intersection like the one on Eyre St and Canberra Avenure. It’s a Stop sign where you have a very clear view of a long long straight to your right. If you slow down and give way but don’t stop you are fine. However, often stopping will mean that you have to stop and wait because the process of stopping and the starting again is too long to make it safely.

jjoking said :

KRATS,

we don’t have to obey rules or give to charities or do anything that might help fellow citizens, we just vote Labor at each election and that gives us the right to take the high ground on every issue and gives us a warm feeling inside.

This warm feeling you get,can also be obtained from urinating in your wet suit.As far “as we all vote Labor”.I think you will find that the majority voted LNP.(Check with A.E.C).You must obey road rules or…FORGET IT.This is BITE FREE ZONE!!

UrbanAdventure.org said :

I have the soloution to this problem. Land mines. That’ll stop cars from using the bus lane, and will definetly make cars stop at stop signs. See, I told you they were versatile. 😉

Land mines are not the answer…

Pork Hunt said :

In the light of this thread it should be renamed to McAnally St.
Eg. the mcsuppository shuld be inserted mcanally..

From now on, when I see a car on the side of the road being fined,I will just say PORK Hunt should have followed the road rules.

KRATS,

we don’t have to obey rules or give to charities or do anything that might help fellow citizens, we just vote Labor at each election and that gives us the right to take the high ground on every issue and gives us a warm feeling inside.

Holden Caulfield said :

Yeah, but what did the cyclists do!

They didn’t pay their rego, farkers!!!!!!!

Screaming Banshee I think your “Computer says no” meme was completely missed but I thought it was hilarious.
(google computer says no)

Jethro said :

One could argue that some stop signs make things more dangerous, as the person driving has to now pull out into traffic without any momentum behind them and will have less acceleration. Particularly true for stop signs that are in places where there is a clear unobstructed view.

That being said, I am not one who partakes in the rolling-stop. Adherence to road rules is a black and white issue for me (even when the rule is in a grey area)

Don’t think your example is a good one. If the intersection is that dangerous you need momentum to get through than a give way won’t help, it will lead to more people getting cleaned up. The whole idea of the stop sign is to make you have a good hard think and have a good look. Not stopping and then gunning it to get through.

watto23 said :

Same as when a queue of say 3 cars are stopped at an intersection and when its clear the first car goes, but the second feels the need to stop again, even though to all three cars the road is clear to proceed. Its just stupidity IMO and the cops I know said they’d never book anyone in that situation, same as for slow rolling at stop signs.

From Australian Road Rules:

352 References to stopping as near as practicable to a place

A requirement in the Australian Road Rules for a driver to stop as near as practicable to a place is not complied with only because the driver stops behind a vehicle that has stopped at the place.

Example
If a driver stops behind a vehicle that has stopped at a stop sign or stop line in accordance with rule 67, 68 or 121, the driver must, after the vehicle has proceeded, stop at the stop sign or stop line in accordance with the rule.

In other words the road rules require every driver to stop for a stop sign.

Stupid link not working!

In the light of this thread it should be renamed to McAnally St.
Eg. the mcsuppository shuld be inserted mcanally..

JC said :

Erg0 said :

Yeah, obviously the law does not agree with my opinion of the rolling stop. I’m really talking about practicality, as opposed to legality. This is one of the few road rules that I think most people are competent enough to bend under the right circumstances.

More fool them. One day they will bend the rule, then wonder why next thing a truck has driven straight through their car.

One could argue that some stop signs make things more dangerous, as the person driving has to now pull out into traffic without any momentum behind them and will have less acceleration. Particularly true for stop signs that are in places where there is a clear unobstructed view.

That being said, I am not one who partakes in the rolling-stop. Adherence to road rules is a black and white issue for me (even when the rule is in a grey area)

JC said :

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-35.33963,149.053676&z=19&t=h&nmd=20100707

Does it say “McNallyNally Street McNally Street” on McNally street for anyone else?

pptvb said :

I could be wrong, often am, but I think that photo is out of date.
Turning left there used to be an unbroken line, with a stop sign, but I think it has been changed to Give Way.
Turning right is still a Stop sign.

Not according to the picture from July 7 on Near Map:

http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-35.33963,149.053676&z=19&t=h&nmd=20100707

Erg0 said :

Yeah, obviously the law does not agree with my opinion of the rolling stop. I’m really talking about practicality, as opposed to legality. This is one of the few road rules that I think most people are competent enough to bend under the right circumstances.

More fool them. One day they will bend the rule, then wonder why next thing a truck has driven straight through their car.

thegirl said :

Erg0 said :

As for Stop signs, I’ve never seen the problem with employing the old “rolling stop” when the road is obviously clear of traffic. Complaining that people don’t come to a “complete stop” is just being churlish. Breezing through at 60km/h is another matter, obviously.

The problem is that the police see a problem with it. When I first moved to Canberra I was travelling down Macquarie St in Barton towards Brisbane Avenue in the early evening. Because it was night and no cars were parked on Brisbane Ave, I had a clear line of sight up Brisbane Avenue and there was not a single car coming down. So I slowed down at the intersection but didn’t completely stop. Because I was looking for cars coming down Brisbane Ave, I didn’t notice the police car on the other side of the intersection. I copped a big fine and demerit points (it was 10 years or so ago now so can’t remember exactly what the penalty was). The policeman acknowledged that I had slowed down and almost stopeed but said that it wasn’t a “slow down” sign. Ever since then I’ve religiously completely stopped and paused before going past every stop sign.

Yeah, obviously the law does not agree with my opinion of the rolling stop. I’m really talking about practicality, as opposed to legality. This is one of the few road rules that I think most people are competent enough to bend under the right circumstances.

pptvb said :

threepaws said :

screaming banshee said :

threepaws said :

I think you’ll find that there is a dirty great big solid line on the ground meaning that you DO have to stop if you are turning left. The dotted line has nothing to do with the sign.

Computer says no

Computer says no to what? This image and the ACT road rules say that you have to STOP “At a stop sign, you must bring your vehicle to a complete stop, with no part of the vehicle over the unbroken (hold) line on the road surface”

http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/Obeythesign/?action=view&current=Street.jpg

I could be wrong, often am, but I think that photo is out of date.
Turning left there used to be an unbroken line, with a stop sign, but I think it has been changed to Give Way.
Turning right is still a Stop sign.

I drove past the intersection at lunchtime. It’s a solid line.

i am so going to install a taxi sign on the top of my non-existent car.

I feel they really need to define stop asslower than say walking pace or slower than 10km/h for 3 seconds. Stop signs are used on intersections where a give way is deemed not necessary for the driver to see in all the required directions, however many intersections its obvious the sign is designed for peak hour usage and its clear that the road is clear. I wouldn’t call it unsafe driving, just common sense IMO.

Same as when a queue of say 3 cars are stopped at an iontersection and when its clear the first car goes, but the second feels the need to stop again, even though to all three cars the road is clear to proceed. Its just stupidity IMO and the cops I know said they’d never book anyone in that situation, same as for slow rolling at stop signs.

threepaws said :

screaming banshee said :

threepaws said :

I think you’ll find that there is a dirty great big solid line on the ground meaning that you DO have to stop if you are turning left. The dotted line has nothing to do with the sign.

Computer says no

Computer says no to what? This image and the ACT road rules say that you have to STOP “At a stop sign, you must bring your vehicle to a complete stop, with no part of the vehicle over the unbroken (hold) line on the road surface”

http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/Obeythesign/?action=view&current=Street.jpg

I could be wrong, often am, but I think that photo is out of date.
Turning left there used to be an unbroken line, with a stop sign, but I think it has been changed to Give Way.
Turning right is still a Stop sign.

cross said :

I once witnessed a gentleman argue the case in court that the stop sign at Weston was set to far back from the actual intersection and produced photographic evidence that showed even the police did not stop properly,that got a few chuckles from the attending police.Any how the judge agreed, and no conviction was recorded.That was well over 15 years ago and the offending stop sign is still well back from the corner.

i used that argument with a policeman in Broadmeadows in 1988. he let me off after looking at the sign and agreeing with me.

Erg0 said :

As for Stop signs, I’ve never seen the problem with employing the old “rolling stop” when the road is obviously clear of traffic. Complaining that people don’t come to a “complete stop” is just being churlish. Breezing through at 60km/h is another matter, obviously.

The problem is that the police see a problem with it. When I first moved to Canberra I was travelling down Macquarie St in Barton towards Brisbane Avenue in the early evening. Because it was night and no cars were parked on Brisbane Ave, I had a clear line of sight up Brisbane Avenue and there was not a single car coming down. So I slowed down at the intersection but didn’t completely stop. Because I was looking for cars coming down Brisbane Ave, I didn’t notice the police car on the other side of the intersection. I copped a big fine and demerit points (it was 10 years or so ago now so can’t remember exactly what the penalty was). The policeman acknowledged that I had slowed down and almost stopeed but said that it wasn’t a “slow down” sign. Ever since then I’ve religiously completely stopped and paused before going past every stop sign.

screaming banshee said :

threepaws said :

I think you’ll find that there is a dirty great big solid line on the ground meaning that you DO have to stop if you are turning left. The dotted line has nothing to do with the sign.

Computer says no

Computer says no to what? This image and the ACT road rules say that you have to STOP “At a stop sign, you must bring your vehicle to a complete stop, with no part of the vehicle over the unbroken (hold) line on the road surface”

http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/Obeythesign/?action=view&current=Street.jpg

PS to my previous post.
Perhaps being such a wide intersection at Weston the stop sign should be changed to a Give Way sign that could solve a lot of grief for both motorist and Police

I have the soloution to this problem. Land mines. That’ll stop cars from using the bus lane, and will definetly make cars stop at stop signs. See, I told you they were versatile. 😉

I once witnessed a gentleman argue the case in court that the stop sign at Weston was set to far back from the actual intersection and produced photographic evidence that showed even the police did not stop properly,that got a few chuckles from the attending police.Any how the judge agreed, and no conviction was recorded.That was well over 15 years ago and the offending stop sign is still well back from the corner.

Taxis and hire cars can use it anytime so that they can collect their passengers in a timely fashion as well (or so the theory goes, anyway).

A story about stop signs. A gentleman came to a “rolling stop” and was pulled over by plod for doing so. The officer asked why he did not come to a complete stop as the law required. The gentleman answered that he could see if he slowed down enough, therefore he didn’t need to come to a complete stop.
The officer in question then produced his truncheon and started rhythmically beating the gentleman. The gent screamed “STOP, STOP!”. To which the officer replied: “Stop, or just slow down enough?”

I thought Taxi’s and Hire cars can only use the bus lanes if they actually have paying customers ?

threepaws said :

I think you’ll find that there is a dirty great big solid line on the ground meaning that you DO have to stop if you are turning left. The dotted line has nothing to do with the sign.

Computer says no

That slip lane at Yarra Glen is like an Oasis when the traffic backs up.

So tantalisingly close and inviting.

But as Woody says, there’s often a police car there waiting to nab people who take the risk.

To illustrate [IMG]http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/Obeythesign/Street.jpg[/IMG]

M0les said :

Re: Corner of McNally (SIC) Street and Namatjira Drive (The “McDonalds intersection”):

When travelling along McNally and turning LEFT onto Namatjira, there is a seperate slip lane (With a “painted island” seperating it from the righthand turn) and no solid hold line. As such, there is no mandate to stop. In other words: The stop sign does not affect traffic turning left.

I think you’ll find that there is a dirty great big solid line on the ground meaning that you DO have to stop if you are turning left. The dotted line has nothing to do with the sign.

Yeah, but what did the cyclists do!

Well I will admit that I will use the slip lane on occations, am I hurting anyone? no, can others do it if they wish? yes.

Breathe in.

Breathe out.

Doesnt it feel alot better?

I have to say though, I’m all for following the road rules, (though I still don’t in these cases) but have you noticed how many stop signs in Canberra could be considered give ways (i.e. there’s enough time when approaching the stop sign that you can tell there’s no cars coming etc, and can continue driving (slowly though)), and there’s a lot of give way signs that should be clearly stop signs (i.e. it’s impossible to see what’s coming, until you come to a complete stop, before going again!). Of course there are give way and stop signs that are actually in the right areas, but what you’ll find is where people aren’t ‘stopping’ are places where I mentioned before where the ‘average’ person can make the judgement there’s no risk to not ‘stop’. The only conclusion I can see coming from your ‘survey’ is that the intersections you speak of should be changed to a give way sign…

Where is “Sollary St Greenway”?

Tip to OP: correct spelling and punctuation reduces the chances of you being perceived as a tin-foil-hat wearer.

As for Stop signs, I’ve never seen the problem with employing the old “rolling stop” when the road is obviously clear of traffic. Complaining that people don’t come to a “complete stop” is just being churlish. Breezing through at 60km/h is another matter, obviously.

Re: Corner of McNally (SIC) Street and Namatjira Drive (The “McDonalds intersection”):

When travelling along McNally and turning LEFT onto Namatjira, there is a seperate slip lane (With a “painted island” seperating it from the righthand turn) and no solid hold line. As such, there is no mandate to stop. In other words: The stop sign does not affect traffic turning left.

However it is a commonly held misbelief that stop signs mean “stop somewhere before going through any lane ahead”. This is probably why we lost the traffic-calming lefhand slip lane travelling from Adelaide Avenue onto Kent Street in Deakin (But nevertheless kept resurfacing and lane-marking the now defunct end of the slip lane):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mcnally+street,+weston&sll=-35.344815,149.056224&sspn=0.006905,0.009645&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.314738,149.098106&spn=0.001736,0.002411&t=h&z=19

Very Busy said :

Gobbo said :

In relation to your third gripe, I think you will find that that is a T2 lane.

“Buses, taxis, bicycles, limousines, motorcycles and cars carrying two or more people, including the driver, can use T2 lanes.”

No, that is a BUS ONLY lane.

The exit from Melrose to Yarra Glen (which bypasses the roundabout) is indeed bus/taxi/bike only. I suspect that some people are thinking of the right hand lane along Yarra Glen/Adelaide Ave, which is a T2 lane.

I’ve never really noticed a lot of cars using the bus only exit, but I rarely drive down there at peak times.

have we resorted to planting potential recipients of the mulley award already?

I suspect the OP was not complaining about taxis and motorcycles using the slip lane, but rather vehicles that are not buses, or taxis, or motorcycles – the ‘non’ applies to all three.

I see the police nabbing people for ducking into that lane often enough that I figure it must also happen when I’m not around, so yay for the thin blue line. The best times are when somebody changes into the lane, sees the patrol car in their rear vision mirror then slows down, looking to get back in to the main lane. Right, left, right – too late, mate, you’re stuck and f*cked.

Did you sit there with your clipboard to record the stop signs?

I always wondered who those people were. And I always assumed they were TAMS employees.

man, you need a life….

Regardless if it is a bus lane or a T2 lane, taxis and motorcycles are permitted to use it.

http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/sl/2000-10/current/pdf/2000-10.pdf
Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Regulation 2000
Division 2.2.2
Section 12 ARR r 158 (2) (c)—other vehicles permitted to travel in bus lanes
The drivers of the following vehicles are permitted to drive in a bus
lane:
(a) taxis;
(b) hire cars;
(c) demand responsive service vehicles;
(d) motorbikes.
Note Section 27A applies the B light rules to drivers of taxis, hire cars,
demand responsive service vehicles and motorbikes.

Gobbo said :

In relation to your third gripe, I think you will find that that is a T2 lane.

“Buses, taxis, bicycles, limousines, motorcycles and cars carrying two or more people, including the driver, can use T2 lanes.”

No, that is a BUS ONLY lane.

Fridays entertainment has arrived

If this is the biggest problem in your life, be very thankful.

Some people have actual problems.

You lost me at “A recent survey (completed by me)”.

I hope you didn’t park illegally when you sat and took your survey……

You know what you have to do, Krats … you have to kill them all.

Motorcycles and public hire cars may be used in all bus lanes in the ACT.

http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/14054/buslanesad.pdf

In regards to stop signs… if 81% of people are breaking the law, then the law is wrong, not the people. Laws should reflect the reasonable actions of the majority of the people. Perhaps a different setup is required at this intersection?

In relation to your third gripe, I think you will find that that is a T2 lane.

“Buses, taxis, bicycles, limousines, motorcycles and cars carrying two or more people, including the driver, can use T2 lanes.”

Wow you must have alot of time on your hands, me? I have more important things in my life to worry about.

And those damn kids should keep off your lawn!