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The Shooters photo wall…

By Ari 1 December 2008 175

I was having a couple of ciders at the Phoenix and wandered outside for a smoke. The entrance to Shooters is next door so I had a quick squiz at the photos they had placed there to lure potential punters in.

It seems they are aiming at the Toolies market, as most of the pictures portray young women – to my (admittedly failing) Gen-X eyes, many seemed under-age – with a fair proportion of them wearing school uniforms. By and large those chosen for display were certainly quite pretty.

But on closer inspection one of the shots chosen by the management was a tad disturbing.

Upskirt!

Now isn’t that classy?

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The Shooters photo wall…
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gift 2:29 am 09 Jul 09

PRISONER OF MOTHER ENGLAND referring to PB & JB.

I can understand where Granny is coming from, when I read those words CHEAP SLUTS, WHORES, TROLLOPS. I felt the hairs on the back of my neck go up, he knows what he said, he’s playing around with words (smart arse), more or less you are saying that they asked for it! If they happened to be raped, because of the way they were dressed, you know that, you wouldn’t admit this because you would be wrong, and you do sound like a woman hater as Granny said, I believe in equal rights, the old saying, she’s a slut thing can also apply to a man as one also, I suppose if a man wore a pink or lilac shirt you would call him a poof! Also why on earth would a night club have pic’s of young women in school uniforms? It’s called planting the seed in the mind, bad form
!

Pommy bastard 5:16 pm 02 Dec 08

PsydFX said :

PB, just drop it, it’s not worth getting banned over.

As hopefully you would have seen, you had your supporters who understood the point you were trying to make – you’re not going to change JJ’s opinion, and attempt is just wasting precious energy.

I will drop it happily, as long as my words are here and people can understand what I wrote, I am happy.

sepi said :

PB – the problem is some people don’t think the Slut word should be bandied about at all. About any women. Even hypothetical ones. You say you weren’t talking about women with those terms, but you must be. You aren’t talking about men, or aliens.

That is true, and I admitted openly more than once I had deliberately used provocative words to stimulate debate.

But, as I have asked more than once previously, if we are to discuss this phenomena, what descriptors would you for instance, find appropriate?

Not all words are just language. You wouldn’t go to America and bandy the N word around.

But it is appropriate to be used by rap artists and others. So how do we discuss their use of the “N” word, do we call it the “N”: word when discussing rap tracks which blatantly use it?

I get that you think talking crudley about women ‘hypothetically’ is ok. But for me it isn’t.

My apologies for that. I would also apologise to anyone else offended to the use of the word.

sepi 5:10 pm 02 Dec 08

PB – the problem is some people don’t think the Slut word should be bandied about at all. About any women. Even hypothetical ones. You say you weren’t talking about women with those terms, but you must be. You aren’t talking about men, or aliens.

Not all words are just language. You wouldn’t go to America and bandy the N word around.

I get that you think talking crudley about women ‘hypothetically’ is ok. But for me it isn’t.

PsydFX 4:53 pm 02 Dec 08

PB, just drop it, it’s not worth getting banned over.

As hopefully you would have seen, you had your supporters who understood the point you were trying to make – you’re not going to change JJ’s opinion, and attempt is just wasting precious energy.

Pommy bastard 4:41 pm 02 Dec 08

Jim Jones said :

Being called a liar and a fraud by a bloke who refers to women as cheap sluts, whores and trollops … can’t say it really fazes me.

Oh god, his comprehension is minimal isn’t it?

I did not refer to women as “cheap slut, whores and trollops”.

I proved your lies Jim, would you like me to do it again.

Here is a blatant lie from Jim;

Suck it up. You’ve been characterising people as ‘cheap sluts’, ‘whores’, and ‘trollops’ based on their dress and have won undying enmity for it.

I characterised no one, this is a lie. Jim fails to realise that discussing hypotheticals is not “characterising women”, nor does he relaise that to “characterise” a person you have to identify them. I have identified no one.

To say that someone dresses in away which people could think they are ” a stripper”, is not to say “they are a stripper.”

When I challenged Jim on this, he did not reply.

It is telling that Jim has singularly failed to back up any accusation he has made against me, and and when challenged to substantiate his slurs, he has no reply.

Here is another of Jim’s frauds;

Bullsh1t. You’re backpedalling because you were casually bandying around phrases such as ‘cheap slut’. How in all hell is that a descriptor that indicates a mode of dress

My quote read;

“If young women attending bars dress like cheap sluts, then their photographs will portray them as …errmmm….work it out yourself.”

Now Jim claims I have not indicated a form of dress, and that I have called women “cheap sluts”, am I alone in seeing a blatant lie there?

I hate liars, and people who tell such easily exposed lies, about what I have written, I do not allow to get away with it.

PsydFX 4:05 pm 02 Dec 08

Jim Jones said :

I won’t be posting in this thread anymore.

I’m with Granny (and, I suspect, more than a few others): I want nothing more to do with this person.

Johnboy didn’t say “don’t comment” he suggested that all sides stop abusing each other. Maybe it’s a good time then to try that!

As an observer, it seems apparent to me that PB didn’t mean to suggest that girls are this that or the other, but was merely commenting on the “look” that a specific group are portraying, he has also spent the entire time defending himself to that affect.

Jim Jones 3:39 pm 02 Dec 08

I won’t be posting in this thread anymore.

I’m with Granny (and, I suspect, more than a few others): I want nothing more to do with this person.

johnboy 3:21 pm 02 Dec 08

Late in the day but I’m going to ask all sides to chill out on abusing each other.

Don’t make me ask again.

PsydFX 3:12 pm 02 Dec 08

sepi said :

Any use of the term slut is crude and inappropriate.

Especially when used about girls in parkas etc.

And your last para makes no sense at all.

Language is only inappropriate if used in an inappropriate way. By your methods, you should count yourself as someone who is crude and inappropriate as you have just made reference to the term “slut”.

I think you’ve failed to keep up with the comments, otherwise you’d probably realise that no one is talking about the girls in the parkas, the comments have even long digressed from the “School Girl” and “Cleavage Shot” that started it all.

My apologies if my last paragraph didn’t make sense to you, let me summarise it for you – You tried to imply that I was going back on something that I had previously stated, but that’s only because you took what I had said out of context.

Jim Jones 3:02 pm 02 Dec 08

Being called a liar and a fraud by a bloke who refers to women as cheap sluts, whores and trollops … can’t say it really fazes me.

Pommy bastard 2:46 pm 02 Dec 08

Jim Jones said :

Pommy bastard said :

But I condemned no-one.

For those who’ve missed it, let’s have some highlights of PB’s posts on this issue:

Having been exposed as a liar, Jim, and instead of answering my direct questions to him above, decides to highlight again his lack of integrity by taking quotes out of context.

Pommy bastard said :

If young women attending bars dress like cheap sluts, then their photographs will portray them as …errmmm….work it out yourself.

If you go to a party dressed as a policeman, people may think you are a policeman.
If you go out dressed like a nurse people may believe you are a nurse.

Back in the day, looking like or behaving like a whore was something frowned on, today it seems that some aspire to look like a porn star.

And this is derogatory, how exactly?

—–

And the difference between this and dressing up like a trollop and parading yourself in a public place, is…what exactly….

A quote rendered meaningless, as he didn’t include WHAT I was asking it was different too.

—–

If these scantily clad women object to this, and so far we do not seem to have any objection from them themselves, then why did they pose (as we can see the photos displayed are all posed) for the photos in the first place?

Yes, your point is what Jim, please point out the derogation in this quote?

Where is the derogatory statement?

—–

Or should I just take it you post unwarranted slurs as you are incapable of honest and logical debate?

Well, now, as we can see, not only are you a cowardly liar, you cannot even formulate a decent response even by taking quotes out of context.

A lair and a fraud Jim. Your mother must be so pleased with you.

Holden Caulfield 2:24 pm 02 Dec 08

sepi said :

Any use of the term slut is crude and inappropriate.

Any use?

This thread is going from the sublime to the ridiculous. It started out like high school debating and is now turning into 1984.

As you were…

sepi 1:50 pm 02 Dec 08

Any use of the term slut is crude and inappropriate.

Especially when used about girls in parkas etc.

And your last para makes no sense at all.

PsydFX 12:44 pm 02 Dec 08

What part don’t you understand, I’m not saying feminism isn’t concerned with “keeping women safe”, what I am saying is that maybe we shouldn’t be looking at the above comments with the feministic view of “Women should be able to wear what they want and not be judged” and accept the fact that they are in fact judged, and sometimes targeted for it.

I’m also not saying that women should be covered up, what I am saying is dressing in a sexually suggestive manner can have negative impacts, especially in a time where drink spiking and sexual assaults on young women is increasing. I can’t understand why you are arguing this? Are you that naive to not be able to see a possible link?

With regards to “my comments” in this post, where I may have made reference to the terms, I haven’t used those terms in a crude or inappropriate manner, so I think maybe you should go back and take a look at what I have said rather than make assumptions.

And finally I have not continually stated that “Dressing like” doesn’t equal “Is”, what I have continually tried to state is that it appears that PB was suggesting that people are “Dressing Like” prostitutes, not that they “are” prostitutes. The concept is pretty clear.

sepi 12:02 pm 02 Dec 08

There is enough wrong with your post that I wonder why I’m bothering, but anyway:

– Feminism is quite concerned with keeping women safe from attack.

– Are you saying women should be covered up at all times – should we make laws about this?

– If you understand the concerns of others about your own crude and inappropriate language, why keep on using those terms.

– You have continually stated above that “dressing like” doesn’t equal “is”, but now you state that to some people it does?

If I were in your position I would take less notice of what people are wearing, and more notice of my own harsh comments.

PsydFX 11:36 am 02 Dec 08

Jim Jones, from your last submission it is apparent that you are only concerned with arguing for the sake of arguing.

Let’s go through it, without emotion:

Fashion these days is very sexually suggestive, call it what you want, but that’s exactly how it is. In the past only sex workers would publicly wear this type of clothing to insight sexual desire and to advertise their occupation to potential punters, but these days when you have big name stars like Brtiney, Paris and Lindsay marketing themselves as “slutty party girls” you have to expect that impressionable people will follow.

Given that you are a father to a daughter, I can understand that you have some concerns over the language used to describe women wearing sexually suggestive clothing, however,
if I was in your position I would look at the harsh comments on here and take more notice of what my daughter is wearing. Attacking someone who has made a tongue-in-cheek reference does not change the fact that there are terrible people out there with worse opinions of women who can’t understand that dressing like a prostitute doesn’t make someone a whore.

This debate shouldn’t be about feminism, this debate should be about keeping women safe from attack. The main perpetrators of sexual assault in this country are males between 15 and 19 years of age, and I don’t think that it is inappropriate to partly attribute these crimes with increased access to violent pornography and the increase of women dressing in a manner that is deemed sexually suggestive.

Jim Jones 9:10 am 02 Dec 08

Pommy bastard said :

But I condemned no-one.

For those who’ve missed it, let’s have some highlights of PB’s posts on this issue:

Pommy bastard said :

If young women attending bars dress like cheap sluts, then their photographs will portray them as …errmmm….work it out yourself.

Back in the day, looking like or behaving like a whore was something frowned on, today it seems that some aspire to look like a porn star.

—–

And the difference bewteen this and dressing up like a trollop and parading yourself in a public place, is…what exactly….

—–

If these scantily clad women object to this, and so far we do not seem to have any objection from them themselves, then why did they pose (as we can see the photos displayed are all posed) for the photos in the first place?

—–

Where is the derogatory statement?

—–

Or should I just take it you post unwarranted slurs as you are incapable of honest and logical debate?

Ah, yes. It’s perfectly clear now. You’ve been cruelly misrepresented and are actually a stalwart of feminist values.

Jim Jones 8:56 am 02 Dec 08

Lol.

Yeah right. As Spitfire and many others have said “Using nasty names to refer to women who dress up to go out and have fun with their friends and feel good about themselves is utter bullsh!t in my opinion”.

All the dissembling over ‘like’ and claims of ‘I don’t mind’ won’t change the fact that you refer to women as sluts and whores.

The only one you’ve exposed as a blatant liar is yourself. And if you think it’s okay to refer to people as being LIKE cheap sluts or whores, then you’re also an unselfconscious pig.

Pommy bastard 8:01 am 02 Dec 08

And I really believe that this is ultimately the crux of the problem. Many men chastise women for behaving in a certain way in one breath, and then promptly reveal that they are attracted to it. So the provocative clothing is a welcome sight when you feel like a perv but you dont have enough respect for the object of your attraction to not consider her a ‘cheap slut’. Great.

Thanks for raising that Roma.

However, I have not in this or any other discussion, “chastised” girls for wearing such clothes. I did and will again, admit again, that deliberately used provocative language in my description(and am glad that it engendered debate).

But I condemned no-one.

However, it is interesting that some who did not like the terms I have used, have been exposed as blatant liars. Personally I find lying far more reprehensible than using strong descriptors.

PsydFX, thank you for using your fine ability to analyse and debate here, you may have been an education to some.

Roma 7:46 am 02 Dec 08

Sorry, that ‘Not that im complaining’ was part of the post that I quoted. Damn these wretched html tags! lol 😉

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