Today is [was] Doogan Day - UPDATED

yes things get crazy in an emergency, but a good leader tells one person that their job is to take notes, because they will be needed afterwards and they usually show that you did the right thing

a bad leader doesn’t want notes so they can’t be held accountable

Even worse than I thought.

Bill Wood says in his stat dec that he carefully read? (the habdwriting isn’t great) Stanhopes evidence prior to making his stat dec.

So now Woods stat dec is tainted – perhaps he is reflecting Stanhopes evidence or lack of recollection, rather than his own memory of the events – in any case it isn’t worth the paper its written on – it was made in July 06, 2 and a half years after the meeting.

The notes by the Cabinet Secretary are clearly the best record – and they say that Cabinet was told of the danger.

So, in summary, Cabinet was told of the risk, Wood and Quinlan decide to go on holiday with fire about to rip through Canberra, Stanhope says that he is “politically” responsible, but wont resign, despite the fact that he presided over the worst clusterf*%k our city has ever seen, where 4 people died and 500 houses were destroyed.

As vg says -remember to be angry at the election – he doesn’t deserve even his own vote.

The stat decs aren’t worth a pinch of shit.

Why did these men not testify to the details they recall in the enquiry? Is there a date as to when the stat decs were signed? Is it days, weeks or months after the event?

Perhaps all of the scrutiny is starting to impact on Stanhope – the stat dec release appears to be the early stages of straw clutching by a desperate man, with no leg to stand on….

Hurry up and resign. Show true leadership. Take real responsiblilty.

Who would have thought that Al-Jazeera would pick up this story ?

Stat Dec? Pathetic

Please, please, please remember all of this when the next local election rolls around

Slightly off topic.

Stanhope is apparently about to announce that the Dragway has been canned. Problems with Block 51 Majura apparently.

What a great way to spread the criticism re the Bushfires. Communication overload!

That’s nasty stereotyping AD.

Of course, mine’s not.

I daresay smh readers are slightly more intellectually evolved than tele readers.

I specialise in fighting metaphorical fires and yes seepi you are very correct, when everything goes crazy organisation and process goes out the window. Getting the job done is number one priority and unfortunately transparency may suffer as a result.

The 10% is probably SMH subscribers who automatically vote for hippie causes.

Or the mayor’s done a ring around.

The Daily Telegraph currently has a poll up on its website asking people to vote on the following topic:

“ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope has been condemned by the coroner for his handling of the 2003 Canberra bushfires. Should he resign?”

Yes. 89% (2499)
No. 10% (294)

Sorry to harp on the note taking, but having worked in an area that had to respond to a crisis, when you re in th middle of the chaos, everyone with half a brain is busy answering phones that are ringing off the hook, trying to arrange extra fax machines, mobile phone, working out who needs what, urgently or not and how to get it to them etc. There is really no bright young thing sitting on the sidelines to take notes. I once answered 2000 phone calls in 2 days after a crisis event. I was the mosat junior person in the office. There was no time for taking notes.
– The cabinet meeting is another matter – these are minuted by the secretary, and those notes are availble.

Not now hes already challenged it, causing a years delay, a delay which he says “didn’t occur to him”.

Even if he didn’t make notes at the time of the Cabinet meeting in which he cant remember being told there was a potential threat to suburbs, the Coroners report clearly states that notes made by the Cabinet Secretary refer to the risk to Dunlop and Weston Creek.

Further, even if he didn’t make notes on the day, he must have known in the days after that he would be asked about the events leading up to the fire – why not make the notes as soon as possible afterwards?

The whole thing reeks of Stanhopes complete lack of political and moral integrity, because he knows that at the moment, he’ll win the Assembly vote on the back of his majority.

Previous Ministers in the Assembly were sacked or had no confidence motions passed against them for less than this clown has got away with – because of minorities voting with Stanhope.

He’s been the first to preach righteous indignation against previous Governments, but doesn’t have the balls to step down in what I say is a worse situation.

Gutless wonder. Shameful. And morally bankrupt.

Sorry if I’m off-topic, but does anyone have any problems with Doogan’s RECOMMENDATIONS? I’ve only seen 12 of them , they seem sound enough to me. But then, I don’t work in that area…

Good call, Taking notes about the decisions made is part of being accountable to the 300,000+ people who reside in the ACT. Being unable to recall things is a load of crap. If their memory doesn’t stretch that far then they are unfit for the jobs they hold.

The toad has it right. Hopeless is so busy dancing around ‘the bigger issues’ he has forgotten to effectively manage the ACT.

It’s amazing that Stanhope and his colleagues had so many memory lapses during questioning in the inquest but can now remember every detail in their meeting on the Thursday before the fire.

In the thick of a crisis you’s expect people to be actually doing stff, not filing reams of notes.

They were sitting in an air-conditioned office Seepi, not battling the blazes themselves.

If things are particularly hairy you get someone junior to accompany you and take notes of everything you say and do and the time you do it.

What you do not do and call yourself fit for public office is to turn up and announce you can’t remember.

People do get away with “I don’t remember” but normally they trot it out when they can claim that it seemed like a minor matter at the time.

Having foolishly chosen to take on CM, AG, and Emergency services, all at once with a fire bearing down on the city, to not take notes is itself high order negligence in my opinion.

Yesterday the mayor (aka stanhope-less) gets his hedgehog hackles up and attacks the report because it points some blame at him. Today he’s a bit more conciliatory (smh comments) because his spinners have put him on a different tack. But he won’t be able to resist denying any personal responsibilty.

His bleating that he was only the acting minister responsible for one day beggars belief. He’s supposed to be the chief minister ffs but still wants to hide behind his claim that he wasn’t adequately informed – pathetic!

Will he now get his head out of the clouds and concentrate on the job of providing effective government in the ACT? Unlikely.

The practical issues of importance to the residents of the ACT such as effective local government mean nothing to the mayor. His concerns are on what he considers a loftier plane and revolve round lefty idealistic issues such as bills of rights, same sex weddings, siev-x memorials, sudanese refugees, al grassby statues, anti-terrorist legislation, father-of-the-year for terrorist’s dads, tree gardens, global warming etc,etc.

Now, while there may be different opinions on the degree of importance of these issues at the national/international level, they’ve got fuck all to do with running the local council. That’s what the mayor can’t come to grips with and why he’s the most ineffective political leader in the country.

In the thick of a crisis you’s expect people to be actually doing stff, not filing reams of notes.

Fair points…

Responsible people managing a crisis take copious notes in the sure and certain knowledge that an inquest will follow.

Failure to do so *should* be grounds for summary dismissal and possibly criminal charges for destroying evidence.

Yes but if you actually WARN them it is coming you’s expect a better result.

There’s a whole lot of angst around all of this issue, for obvious reasons. But two things are concerning me about some of the editorial on radio and in the CT.
The CT is making a lot of the ‘memory lapses’. But it was all a long time ago now. I have trouble remembering names of people I worked with 2 years ago. I’m sure that in the middle of everything that was going on in those few days, a lot of the detail would have slipped by many people – especially years later.
And much is being made of lack of firefighting resources. It may well be that some of the houses could have been saved otherwise, but I can’t help but think that if you stand 500 people in front of a speeding goods train instead of 50, the main difference will be more people hurt…

And worse, he was (or still is) the Attorney General, but it “didn’t” occur to him that seeking to remove the Coroner from her inquiry would result in delays to the process? Please….

Yep, he’s developing a rather early onset of brain-damage there, ain’t he?

We can only hope that sooner or later he’ll become non-cognisant of the process of breathing…

In the SMH piece, Stanhope says he “regrets” lodiging the challenge about apprehended bias – not something he said at the time he lodged it.

He also said it “didn’t occur to him” that the challenge would delay the process and cause angst – what else did he think would happen when he sought to shut down the enquiry a week prior to the 2004 elections?

He seems to be using the defence that things “didn’t occur to him” a lot recently, although he uses a different wording “not cognisent of” or other things.

Truly astounding.

Slightly oblique to the issue…am I the only one that finds the PM lecturing on Westminster responsibility hysterical?

SMH whine

“Tharwa non school fiasco (as posted by Nyssa) as well.”

That one was in the media long before we did anything with it.

He also seems to be saying that the Coroner is wrong because 5 people at the Cabinet meeting gave oral evidence that they didn’t think the worst case scenario was that fire would hit the suburbs.

THis is despite notes made at the time of the meeting by the Cabinet Secretary and others clearly saying that Weston Creek and Dunlop, particularly, were at risk.

So how is it that Stanhope and the Cabinet conveniently “cant recall”, yet the written record clearly states they know?

And Stanhope still has the F&cking hide to suggest that because he cant remeber being told, its the Coroner who is wrong.

He is a disgrace. If he wants to take the blame (as he did in the days after), he should be prepared to wear it now.

Statues of Al Grassby is one thing, peoples lives are another….

It certainly is flattering to see Stanhope’s spinners trying out their media lines here before unleashing them on the wider public.

First the coroner wasn’t attacking him, then when that didn’t work the coroner was wrong, then suddenly he wasn’t the acting emergency services minister!

I wish I had their time machine.

Whoa! there OneVoice. It’s pretty easy to see which side of the fence you are sitting on.

It would be convenient to say that I sit on the other, but that would be incorrect. From reading your dialogue, it would appear that no shit would stick to hopeless Stan, so how do you answer his comment – on video and televised so therefore very difficult to ‘not recall’, requesting that he be blamed ?

I call for selective memory testing for public servants as part of their recruitment process. The sheer amount of items that are not recalled merely deteriorate the evidence presented, and is unprofessional and unrepresentative of the public service.

“Respected jurist johnboy? That’s a first from you.”

So being critical of some lenient sentences makes me unable to make an argument in support of the judiciary at any time?

Bollocks.

Respected jurist johnboy? That’s a first from you.

So many with selective memory syndrome, hell bent on protecting their backsides. They are a disgrace. The Chief Minister said some time ago “blame me”. The Coroner apportions some blame to him – and he objects. He finds problems with her report and is able to recall certain details in order to build an argument to try and refute her claims. Yet he can’t remember quite a long call from his public servant head the morning of the fire. One can’t help but be suspicious about the behaviour of the key players following this tragedy.

Easy, Bill Wood wandered off on leave midway through the crisis, something Mr. Stanhope signed off on (in my view irresponsibly).

At that point Jon Stanhope became the acting minister, although he appears to have taken an unusual view to the responsibility.

I would suggest that everyone read this report. The Coroner makes a number of very valuable recommendations. However one issue confused me; if Bill Wood was the responsible minister, and no reflection on Mr Wood in this, how was it that the Coroner is of the opinion that it was Stanhope that had ministerial responsibility? This goes to the heart of the Coroner’s ideas of political accountability, as it applies, not to any minister, but with respect to Stanhope.

The ACT should seize the opportunity and begin exporting firewood to Victoria for the coming winter.

having dealt with the esa as a contractor, i can only apply the phrase “couldn’t find a root in a whorehouse” to the management there. and the guys in the trucks are pissed. having seen the way cash has been blown in the esa, i can only shake my head really. it needs dudes that know fires and stuff, not public servants with no idea beyond their super payout etc.

Thumper I thought the scope was to make recommendations to fix a problem. Anyway to late to retract the comment from the report.

And by the way they have controlled the Tumut fire but have left over 10,000 hectares of semi burnt and dying pine trees. See how they go with the next lightening strike.

Map of 1939 created by historians in 2004.
http://www.australianalps.deh.gov.au/publications/fire/pubs/bushfires-black-friday1938-39.pdf

I like the bit about outsourcing to NSW RFS.
Something similar to ACT police and the Feral police force.
There is not doubt that the ACT RFS and ACT fire services lack sufficient resources to tackle any serious bushfire. The place is not big enough and must really on mutual aid from across its borders. An alternative to outsourcing to NSW RFS would be to go with the CFA and get rid of the ACT townies as well. The CFA has experience with outsourcing eg that Pacific island up the road. Pity that island has not been able to help Vic in the last few weeks as they are currently having political difficulties. Sounds just like the ACT.
People still believe the media hype that it was bad luck and had not happened before. The 1939 fires were well documented in Victoria by a royal commission but were ignored North of the border even though they are believed to have covered a similar area to the 2003 fires. It has happened before and it will happen again. To control this type of fire req

Is there anywhere any mention of the NSW authorities being at fault? Or was Mrs Doogan stopped from mentioning this or face legal action from NSW?
I’d be very interested indeed to hear as it would mean alot of closure for this person who lived through that terrible day and the aftermath in that devastated suburb of Duffy.

Pretty concise for an 800 page report, and it certainly paints a picture.

If the level of miscommunication, underestimation and incompetence that seemed to reign supreme at lots (but not all) of the relevant authorities during those days are an indication of the way in which the rest of the government functions – I’m moving.

…and put more f**kmuppets in their place?

You can’t pick and choose when you uphold Westminister principles – it should be all or none of them.

Couldn’t agree more johnboy – they all use it to get themselves out of a hole these days, and hide behind it when they want things to be “Cabinet in Confidence” etc.

All pollies, from all sides, should shape up – and if not, we should move them on….

The issue is that the Chief Minister relies on Westminster principals to reduce transparency and avoid scrutiny.

The flipside of those principles is the resignation of Ministers when things go wrong.

With the small number of MLA’s (meaning a lack of suitable ministerial replacements) we should probably scrap the westminster system entirely for what is essentially a local council.

But if the Chief Minister insists on it (and he does) then he should be judged by those rules.

I’m not into the blame game either, but I would like someone to step up and take responsibility for their actions or lack of,

rather than the inevitiable avoidance, mudslinging and buck passing that we’ve seen and will continue to see

I’m frankly surprised that the people behind the nearly 1,000 ‘I don’t know’, or ‘I don’t remember’ haven’t been recommended to be moved on as being unable to do their jobs properly.

I’m with you terubo.. you can blame whoever you want, it is not going to change the outcome. Basically canberra has never suffered on that scale.. so no-one would really have known what to do.. now we have suffered on that scale and have a much better idea of what to do and not to do.

Who gives a stuff about the blame game. The most important part about this report should be the (73) recommendations – so that it don’t happen again.

You obviously didn’t read the parts about Stanhope, his evidence and his applications to have the Coroner disqualified, areaman.

Chapter 7 makes particular mention of Stanhope, as does Chapter 3. Once I finish reeading more of the report, I’ll get you some more page numbers.

Coroner Maria Doogan found 15 causes of the fires and made 73 recommendations in relation to all kinds of things, including fuel reduction, the communication (or lack thereof) between the various fire bureaux and about the bureaucracy and cabinet. (and no I haven’t read the report in full yet. It’s got 800 or so pages)

Bill Stefaniak says (slightly predictably) the report is an indictment of the government and that Stanhope should resign. On the whole I got the impression that residents and various other interested parties were generally happy with the coroner’s findings but think it won’t do any good unless the recommendations are acted upon.

And I think JB was a little unfair in his judgement of the ABC story above (unless the online people added to it after he linked) — it’s got plenty of responses and the stuff about Stanhope and other bits and pieces.

She said at least twice that Stanhope knew two days before that the fires would threaten Canberra and that he failed to give adequate warnings. The relevant sections are on p62 and p166 of Book 2.

It doesn’t need to, this line is the killer.

despite senior personnel of the Emergency Services Bureau having knowledge that the fires would burn into the suburbs

Occurrences of “Stanhope” = 1, which you then quoted out of context.

SHe also clearly says that the Cabinet of the time (Wood, Quinlan, Corbell and Stanhope) knew at their meeting a couple of days prior that the suburbs in Weston Creek, and Dunlop, were most in danger of the fire reaching them.

And that they chose to do nothing about it. She also reflects on Mr Stanhope’s apparent inability to recall that the suburbs of Canberra were mentioned as being at risk.

They knew and did nothing.

Occurrences of “Castle” in the preliminaries = 0!

Wash your mouth out AM.

Pretty selective quoting there JB, mainly she blamed the Emergency Services and and Mike Castle.

Appeals forthcoming?

Looks to be spot on from what I’ve read so far. A damn fine read actually, she’s done a top job.

smh

This could be a disco inferno…

well this should be interesting!

HER: They say we’re young and we don’t know
We won’t find out until we grow
HIM: Well I don’t know if all that’s true
‘Cause you got me, and baby I got you

HIM: Babe
BOTH: I got you babe
I got you babe

HER: They say our love won’t pay the rent
Before it’s earned, our money’s all been spent
HIM: I guess that’s so, we don’t have a pot
But at least I’m sure of all the things we got

D day eh ?