Who's going to deliver the babies after you've sued all the doctors?

I agree with Headbonius. If it wasn’t for an experienced doctor at my birth, I may not be here today. My mum had all kinds of complications giving birth to me. As a mid-wife herself, she’s always maintained that midwives deal with all the guts and doctors get all the glory – but she also says that in times of emergency and complications, that’s when the doctors earn every cent of their income.

Hi DJ, just to clarify – while I realise Australian lenders not offer “sub-prime” loans (that I am aware of), a recession is quite different. It not a matter of saying “mericans say “sub-prime mortgage”, Australians say “recession”.” Mind you, the effect is often quite similar when a sub-prime fuelled crisis hits as it has in the US.

Not trying to be a smart a$$. just clarifying. Cheers

BTW, my wife accepted it too. Doctors are not working on computers,ie if something goes wrong they just buy a new part. There is no certainty in medicine, some people seem to think that there is. In Cases like the butcher of Bega, people certainly have a claim, both civil and criminal however with most medical “negligence” cases that I see, the only winners are the solicitors – “Don’t talk to the insurance companies – talk to me…..” Gotta go I feel a big vomit coming on.

do it yourself delivery kits from bunnings?

H wrote “One thing Johnboy doesn’t realise is that WOMEN deliver and birth babies. Doctors and midwives just catch them.”

That is true in many instances H and if everything goes as intended women could literally give birth by themselves (as women have done in ancient societies in the past and continue to do today) It is when things go wrong that medical intervention is required. Our first child was born very early as a result of serious comlications with my wife. The Ob, Dr Armellin was cool, calm and collected in a situation which required split second decision timing, extensive medical knowledge and a steady hand. He safely deivered the baby via emergency c-section and then saved my wife’s life. Result, healthy baby (after a few weeks in a humidicrib) and a living wife who was able to have two more beautiful children with me. This was edge of the seat stuff. Without his assistance my wife and baby would have died in a matter of minutes. Now comes the clincher – In his area of expertise, Armellin deals in life and death situations regularly. In these situations during which split second decisions need to be made things can go wrong, people can die, babies can be born with problems. I accepted that back then (and said a lot of prayers to the FSM that everything would be allright) and I accept it now. This litigous crap has got to stop.

lol i was just looking for the “vote kick” function 😉

And there we go, into the mod queue with you.

In the morning any on-topic non-abusive things you have to say will be cleared.

“I advise you to take a breathe” Oh goody! Do you sell “breathes” I’ll have me one of those.

Thanks Johnny! At least you did not “advice me”, I will take a breathe right now.

This kind of litigious environment results in poorer outcomes for patients. Doctors seem to have a habit now of putting so many decisions onto the patient, in what I can only see as an attempt to limit liability. I had to make a decision about some surgery a few years back that could have had implications on some critical nerves, all I needed was to have a clear medical opinion and the doctor just avoided my questions. Eventually I said to him that I was paying him for his considerable education and experience, and I was paying him to give me good advice. I appreciate information, but he is in a much better position to consider the information as he knows all the risk factors etc.

The electrician doesn’t ask you what gauge fuse wire to put in, because he is the expert with experience and an education in the field. This litigious society is just making it harder for ordinary people to get a straight answer.

“They should put the time limit on medical negligence cases back to 7 years like everything else for a start. Why can doctor’s be sued decades later, and other professions can’t.”

The time limit is the same for all cases. You have to apply to the supreme court to sue something that happened more than 7 years ago.
There is a time limit on medical negligance cases. Same as for everything else.

The thing is, that a case involving medical negligance and the death of a person usually takes a lot longer than just 7 years for the people involved to be strong enough to try to deal with it.

I have a case, forensic pathologists say I have a case, I STILL CAN NOT live through it again at this time in my life when I am bringing up small children. I may NEVER be able to live through it again in court and whatever else one has to go through.

First and final, I don’t have the kind of time or patience to do more.

As for the rest I really have no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re starting to push the nutter buttons so I advise you to take a breathe and attack the ideas and not the people who hold them.

One thing Johnboy doesn’t realise is that WOMEN deliver and birth babies. Doctors and midwives just catch them.

Who will deliver all the babies? WOMEN!
Who will catch them: MIDWIVES.

If you have a high risk pregnancy you are screwed, as I was. However I was never classed as “hig hrisk” until AFTER a HIGH PROFILE Dr allowed my child to be born normally and then brain dead i.e “retarded” and eventually die.

Say high to Andrew for us at the next writers thingo Johnboy. Stuart says to give Andrew a HUGE rude finger!

“H,

While acknowledging your emotional involvement here we no longer tolerate this kind of personal abuse.

Last warning”

I think you mean FIRST warning.I was enjoying your editorial skills up to now.

Is it tough love Johnboy or is it just my Ip address that upsets you? That was way F****ING harsh.

I’ll bet my arse on the fact that you are friends with Andrew (the violent novelist) and my Ip address is the cause of your angst.

H,

While acknowledging your emotional involvement here we no longer tolerate this kind of personal abuse.

Last warning.

“He delievered me, and i turned out alright!!

but yeesh, the world’s gone crazy. 30 years after stuff has happened? can you remember what YOU didefend yourself??
d 30 years ago?? (I personally cant, wasnt born for another 12 years, but thats another story :D), how the hell could you “

No, you are retarded. Ask your parents to seek compo NOW.

Professionals keep records and 30 years ago was not the dark ages.

blah blah blah and blow it out all of your collective arses.

A negligent doctor and a negligent specialist ended up with me having a dead baby in 1995. Ancient history for all you gen Y’s, larf all you like. It matters to me. A dead kid is a dead kid. The death of my baby has affected me in ways that I never thought possible.

I have a case , a legal case, for lots of $$$$$, but the emotional pain it would cause me to go through it ALL AGAIN in court is not worth any amount of money. I tried. I started a legal action and couldn’t function after that.

Maybe in 2035, I will be strong enough to deal with it – 30 years after the fact. Sure as shit, I can’t do it now. I tried to in 2002 and couldn’t do it.

Organise a funeral for your child and then come back and yodel about grieving parents. WHATEVER they grieve about!!!

Just trying to establish what was standard practice at that point is a nightmare.

Something might have been theorised somewhere at the time but it takes years to become standard practice.

There were people living on milk and water crackers for stomach ulcers 10 years after they found a cure for them with antibiotics.

He delievered me, and i turned out alright!!

but yeesh, the world’s gone crazy. 30 years after stuff has happened? can you remember what YOU did 30 years ago?? (I personally cant, wasnt born for another 12 years, but thats another story :D), how the hell could you defend yourself??

Another example of litigation idiotcy. Personally I blame the lawyers for not telling the guy to go away in the first place, but I’m sure the lawyer is in it for the $$ anyway.

While I accept there needs to be some sort of protection for the truly negligent and terrible doctors that may slip through the cracks, there needs to be a restriction placed on claims for genuine minor errors, unexpected outcomes and 50/50 may or may not succeed procedures. Doctors are human and may make mistakes, but there’s a difference between human error and negligence and it’s about time someone did something about the money grubbing litigants and lawyers out there.

As for this case, how it was allowed to proceed when first lodged 20 years after the fact is rediculous, obviously his parents did not think anything untoward occurred and the case has come about when he has become of age. I have no doubt medicine was nothing like it is now some 30 years ago and the doctor probably had no need at all for insurance back then. Having a look at the commentary around the story the plaintiff has not much of a case and they’re asking witnesses (the nurses) to try and recall something that happened 30 years ago, funny that they have no recollection of it.

Chuck the case out, award costs against the lawyer for the plaintiff and stop wasting the court’s time and our money.

They should put the time limit on medical negligence cases back to 7 years like everything else for a start. Why can doctor’s be sued decades later, and other professions can’t.

Obstetricians are a dying breed and into the future they will have to come up with another system, as the very few obstetricians will have to work in hospitals looking after severely ill cases only.

DJ said :

Having just had a baby (well my wife did some of the work) I can say that the first time and this time we were inundated with information from the hospital and doctors on everything and anything that could or might happen.

I firmly believe that they had a genuine interest in our baby and the health of mum and bub.

Strangely enough, people do tend to go into medicine because they have a “genuine interest” in the well being of others. I know that’s not the line they like to sell in the tabloid press, but there you go. Truth is stranger than fiction. 😉

Americans say “sub-prime mortgage”, Australians say “recession”.

Having just had a baby (well my wife did some of the work) I can say that the first time and this time we were inundated with information from the hospital and doctors on everything and anything that could or might happen.

I firmly believe that they had a genuine interest in our baby and the health of mum and bub. The information may also have met the requirements of the Dept of Health or Hospital guidelines (CJJH) but who is to know?

emd is right, we don’t know enough….

I don’t think there’s been enough detail in the news reports that I’ve seen to make a decision about the validity of this case ending up in court, or what the outcome should be.

ant said :

It’s out of control, and we all pay, ultimately. The only people winning from this are lawyers. Apparently, the deliverers of babies are most likely to be sued, which is leading to a severe shortage of them, especially in rural areas.

unfortunately, there are many pregnant women who will be affected by this issue. some may try to drive to the nearest hospital and will:

a) give birth on the side of the road
b) make it to the hospital
c) have an accident
d) have complications during the roadside birth

I am certain that the lawyers will be ready for them or their families….

vultures.

It’s out of control, and we all pay, ultimately. The only people winning from this are lawyers. Apparently, the deliverers of babies are most likely to be sued, which is leading to a severe shortage of them, especially in rural areas.

hee hee. Family Guy episode flashbacks.

something about a package stuck to Peter Griffins backside.

considering that there are people taking IVF doctors to court for the impact that their new family has had on their potential earnings,(but we only wanted one child) this new story didn’t come as much of a surprise.

if my wife hadn’t had access to competent midwifes, the OB-Gyn and several other support staff at JJMH & TCH, I would now be a widower.

Considering the amount of blood she lost when my sons were delivered last year, as well as a clot and hemorrhage a couple of weeks later, if we had had no access to competent doctors, I would be raising 3 children on my own.

(really fast response from ACT Ambulance service too – thank god for the ambo’s)

If the continual litigation of doctors eventually drives them away from practicing, who will be left?

the incidents of litigation in all walks of life are on the increase – drop a chip in the mall, slip on it – where the hell did that come from??
and sue the centre for not keeping the floors clean…..

Perhaps litigation lawyers can deliver the babies?

Dr Bates was our OB-Gyn of choice when we had our little girl. I would use him again and would recommend him to anyone. Anyone living in Canberra knows getting a GP, let alone a good one is difficult, getting a good Ob-Gyn even harder.
Having a baby is a risky business, mothers and babies die every day in Australian hospitals. Negligence aside, suing the doctor doesnt solve anything and in the end makes the world a harder, more expensive place to live.

Yeah, it sounds a bit like he does not have insurance, or didn’t in those days (probably wasn’t as needed as these days). The insurance that doctors has to pay annually is gob-smacking! But all have to take it out in today’s climate.

That he’s acting for himself suggests there’s no insurance cover in this case.

In cases where things go awry it would be nice to have an automatic medical review process to close the book on negligence (pending appeals for a limited period).

If Scrubs is to be believed they have this in the US already, but House watchers might have more info 😉

Medical negligence is a difficult area, and probably one of the drivers for tightening of civil liability a few years back. We expect a lot from doctors, in relation to the important matters of our health, and mostly they deliver. When they don’t, that cannot mean automatic liability, and it cannot mean applying the standards of today (supported by remarkable technology) to medical decisions and actions that were taken a generation ago. But the patient should not bear the cost of a doctor who should not be practising because he or she lacks or has lost skill or is too arrogant to keep learning.

What can and should be the case is that, if a doctor informs the patient of the foreseeable risks of any choice being made, and then acts consistently with the best state of knowledge used by competent practitioners at the time, he or she will not be liable. Unfortunately, liability is not required for someone to start a claim and, sometimes, it is easier for an insurer to settle than to fight.

Just another step close to Australia becoming like the USA. Next will be our version of the sub-prime mortgage crisis without doubt!

I don’t think you’d find many within the industry who would disagree with you, FC. Nobody is suggesting that there shouldn’t be a way of holding truly rogue/rotten doctors accountable for true malpractice. The greater issue is the current climate of an overly litigious public who very much have the pendulum swung in their favour at present. Medical schools today lecture their students about WHEN they will be sued, rather than IF – it’s accepted as almost an inevitability for most in the industry, regardless of your ability and professionalism. More doctors lose than win in court, regardless of the strength of evidence for their case (this is why most cases are settled out of court). A lack of tort reform means that doctors can be sued decades after an event. Obstetricians have to continue paying into medical insurance for years after retirement as a result, and there have been cases of the _estates_ of obstetricians being sued for damages.

Succinctly:
Should doctors be held accountable for their actions? Absolutely.
Should they be able to be successfully sued (indefinitely and retrospectively) for things that were not their fault and/or out of their control? No.

The public decry the idea of a doctor as a “god-like” figure, but are all too happy to sue when their medico turns out to be human, after all.

Ridiculous! People are developing unrealistic expectations of medical practitioners. They’re not miracle workers. They simply do their best given their training and resources. And bringing up a case from 30 years ago brings misery to all involved. They should all be allowed to get on with their lives rather than indulge in wishful thinking!

Does anyone know what the particulars of the case are.
a lot of doctors do work hard, but they should also be accountable for their actions/

I don’t think you want to open that can of worms…

Midwives?

I think allowing this sort of thing is madness. Doctors work incredibly hard, and require many years of training, as well as very tight operating guidelines. To even entertain a lawsuit on the basis that something didn’t turn out right is crazy. Without the doc, the guy may not even have survived birth.