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41 more wind turbines for Lake George

johnboy 6 November 2011 63

wind turbines

The ABC has news of planning approval for the Capital 2 wind farm project.

The Capital 2 wind farm project on the east side of Lake George in New South Wales includes an additional 41 wind turbines to generate power for the grid.

David Griffin from Infigen Energy says the expansion will be part of a proposed renewable energy precinct including a 50 megawatt solar farm, which was approved in December 2010.

“The two wind farms that are currently located there are 141 and 48 megawatts so there’s 189 megawatts installed there now,” he said.

“This new wind farm will see the addition of approximately another 100 megawatts so there’s a fairly significant increase in the capacity at that location.”

Wind turbines are awesome.

[Photo by Devil_n_Disquiz]


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41 more wind turbines for Lake George
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Holden Caulfield 4:11 pm 24 Nov 11

marcothepolopony said :

On my drive back I was astounded at the number of (live) magpies and parrots I saw in the surrounding paddocks.

Raptors are more likely to be affected by wind farms as their natural instinct is to watch the ground, not where they are going. Similarly they can be territorial and will fight each other to settle on their turf, so to speak. Worrying about 32m blades is generally not high on their agenda at such times.

Magpies and parrots, not so much.

I’m pretty sceptical about all this stuff too, but it is stuff the government is currently paying attention to.

marcothepolopony 2:50 pm 24 Nov 11

On Sunday I was invited, by the property owners, to inspect the windfarm outside Canberra.

Always loved the look of them dotting the hill tops around, so magnificent, so I accepted with glee.
It was foul weather, with the westerly blowing the blades at 99% capacity.

A distinct sound, not unlike the rolling surf, could be heard up close to the towers. Three blades over 32 metres in length spinning rapidly is bound to make some sound, I found it energising and left the place feeling ‘amazed’ at its capacity and magnitude.

On my drive back I was astounded at the number of (live) magpies and parrots I saw in the surrounding paddocks.
If you get any opportunity to view a Wind Farm, take it – I’ve been there.

Erg0 2:01 pm 24 Nov 11

Solidarity said :

I’ve never seen them spin, so I dunno how they can create humming if they aren’t spinning.

The obvious fix for the humming is to teach them the words.

Solidarity 1:45 pm 24 Nov 11

I’ve never seen them spin, so I dunno how they can create humming if they aren’t spinning.

Classified 1:28 pm 24 Nov 11

realman said :

MUTE ARGUMENTS, ask the people living there under them, see/hear their answers and magic, you have the facts…. all this self indulgent argumentative dribble from people that live at least 50 k’s away, with very important opinions of course.

Yawwwwwwwn….

Deref 12:49 pm 24 Nov 11

realman said :

MUTE ARGUMENTS

I can’t hear any of those.

poetix 12:42 pm 24 Nov 11

This has to be one of the best photos ever on RA. Just beautiful. It gets better every time I see it, so I hope this thread keeps revolving for some time.

realman 12:33 pm 24 Nov 11

MUTE ARGUMENTS, ask the people living there under them, see/hear their answers and magic, you have the facts…. all this self indulgent argumentative dribble from people that live at least 50 k’s away, with very important opinions of course.

chilli 7:34 pm 08 Nov 11

peterepete said :

i think its a bit arrogant to dismiss all claims of adverse health impacts without evidence – we have some anecdotal claims that they are a hazard and they should be evaluated. The real problem with these is the increased rotational speed of the globe as a result of all these propellers spinning. It is shortening our days and will muck up our entire ecology – not to mention have you ever noticed how time seems to be speeding up over the years since these things started going up?

Anecdotes aren’t evidence. Latest edition of the MJA has an article from public health expert Dr Simon Chapman solidly dismissing all claims of ill health effects from wind turbines as a load of rubbish.

And I assume you’re taking the piss regarding the propellers’ effects on the earth’s rotation???

welkin31 5:47 pm 08 Nov 11

2604 – I see you asking – “It would be very interesting to know how much each MW/hr of energy generated by those turbines costs (including capital costs amortised over the course of each turbine’s life) and how it compares to market rates of green energy.

Would also be interesting to know how the cost of wind power compares to the cost of coal-fired power plus carbon offset plus capital costs.”

My experience is that it is usually very difficult to get true cost figures for anything touched by Green policy.

In this case though the owner of the Capital Wind Farm is INFIGEN ENERGY, listed on the ASX under the code IFN.
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/companyInfo.do?by=asxCode&asxCode=IFN
You can download an 18/10/2011 Presentation to BBY Conference.
They own wind farms in the USA too.
This Yahoo page lets you chart the share price history for IFN;
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=IFN.AX+Basic+Chart&t=my
from early 2006 – and the decline in share price has been pretty severe – from ~$1.80 to 25.5 cents today. For sure IFN are not the only company to have been hammered on the ASX.
The Capital Wind Farm supplies the Kurnell Seawater Desalination water factory with renewable electricity – and there is an interesting tangle to the story there. Now I understand that the Kurnell can be shut down if Warragamba Dam goes over 80% full
NSW Greens MP John Kaye has pointed out that;
http://johnkaye.org.au/ofarrell-govt-forcing-households-to-pay-for-desal-sell-off
the O’Farrell Govt wants to privatise Kurnell – so they are happy to see Warragamba Dam stay under 80%.
http://www.eldersweather.com.au/damlevel.jsp?lt=state&lc=nsw
which you can see here the Warragamba level flatlining under 80%.

Three years ago the Labor Govt stopped routine transfers from the Shoalhaven to Warragamba Dam –
http://www.sca.nsw.gov.au/news/ministerial-media-releases/sydney-cuts-reliance-on-shoalhaven-for-drinking-water—minister-phillip-costa-mp
Tallowa Dam (Shoalhaven) has been full for most of the last two years (select Tallowa at above Elders weather link) – spilling water to the sea – some of which could have been transferred to Warragamba.
So you see there are some complex interconnected goings on here mostly acting against the interests of Sydney water users.
Presumably if Kurnell was mothballed – taxpayers would still have to pay IFN for the power – but at least it could be put into the grid.
It seems that Sydney water consumers are saddled with the cost of Kurnell for evermore and the Sydney water utility will keep on spilling sufficient water to the sea to the extent needed to make Kurnell look necessary.

So to get right back to johnboy’s post about the planning approval for the extra 41 turbines. Taking into account the IFN share price trend – I doubt the extra turbines will sprout on the hills soon.

HenryBG 10:13 am 08 Nov 11

2604 said :

It would be very interesting to know how much each MW/hr of energy generated by those turbines costs (including capital costs amortised over the course of each turbine’s life) and how it compares to market rates of green energy.

Would also be interesting to know how the cost of wind power compares to the cost of coal-fired power plus carbon offset plus capital costs.

Wind power is pretty much 99% capital cost, with no externalised costs except for a bit of “windkill” and the induction of some psychosomatic medical complaints.

Coal power has large operational costs involving the supply and consumption of fuel and including waste disposal plus a massive amount of externalised costs in the form of very dodgy particulate emissions, CO2 emissions, and the effects on land use and groundwater from coal mining operations.

Wind power is currently good value due to the high Aussie dollar – our prolonged lack of investment in this technology means we import it all from Denmark and Spain.

2604 10:55 pm 07 Nov 11

qbngeek said :

If the ACT wants the power generated they could always do something outrageous like buy it at market rates.

It would be very interesting to know how much each MW/hr of energy generated by those turbines costs (including capital costs amortised over the course of each turbine’s life) and how it compares to market rates of green energy.

Would also be interesting to know how the cost of wind power compares to the cost of coal-fired power plus carbon offset plus capital costs.

Pandy 10:00 pm 07 Nov 11

NoAddedMSG said :

bit of a drag though..

Like your picture right?

bundyjack27 8:19 pm 07 Nov 11

Wouldn’t all the workers putting them together all be sick if it was so…

I do and kids think they look pretty damn cool!

Was speaking to a tradie who is working out there installing them. They are an overseas company and for every turbine on the affected lot/s, the owner of the land gets about $10,000 a year for having it on his land. Although it is quite a timely matter in getting them on your land.

First you apply to the company, they come check it out with some wind meters, if it meets required data, they install wind meters all over and they test for approx 3 years looking at all the data and project what they could produce and if it meets the minimum, then the owners get to have a tourist attraction on there land. Good on them!

Anyone want to donate a nice couple of hundred acres thats very windy so that i can get some put on it and then i’ll never have to work again!

FioBla 2:11 pm 07 Nov 11

Listening carefully on a quiet winter evening at the Fisher Shops (waiting for pizza), I can hear road noise from Tuggeranong Parkway—seems to come from that direction anyway. We are so used to, and dismissive of road noise (e.g. recent Aranda thread, or older threads about trucks), car alarms at night, or “unsightly” (to me anyway) power lines up Oakey Hill.

Once people are used to seeing turbines, they’ll get used to it. And industry’s ability (e.g. via the Australian Landscape Guardians) to highlight “infrasound” while overt noise elsewhere (e.g. from taxpayer-funded roads) is clearly a problem, is something to be admired.

Example article about traffic noise and strokes: http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/01/08/eurheartj.ehq466.abstract

Gungahlin Al 1:12 pm 07 Nov 11

As some are noting, the health effects seem intrinsically linked to fiscal participation in the project.

I believe a smart wind farm proponent would undertake a GIS analysis of the viewshed and noiseshed of the proposal. Then (within reason) they would offer a proportion of the profits to all the affected surrounding landholders based on an easily quantifiable scale of impact that could be calculated from the above mapping.

The community-owned wind turbines in Victoria have been conflict-free. Perhaps this sort of community participation would smooth the ruffled feathers?

qbngeek 1:08 pm 07 Nov 11

dvaey said :

As others have said, I wonder if we’ll actually get to use this power, or if Sydney council will find some power-hungry project to gobble it all up before its even generated?

Id also like to see at least part of one of these wind farms opened up to the public, rather than only being able to see them from across Lake George, or on the occasional day the farmers decide to have an ‘open day’ and let us citizens see what our tax monies are going towards.

Uuumm, you do realise they are located in NSW right? And Infigen (the owners of the turbines) are a private company from memory. So why exactly does the ACT have any entitlement to the power generated? If the NSW Government/Intergral Energy/etc choose to buy the power, what claim do you have to it?

If the ACT wants the power generated they could always do something outrageous like buy it at market rates.

Gungahlin Al 1:07 pm 07 Nov 11

yellowsnow said :

The crazy thing is all the energy generated around Lake George goes to offset power consumed by an expensive and powerhungry Sydney desal plant that’s no longer needed, yet runs 24h/per day anyway. It’s one hungry beast.

Given the desal plant wasn’t there a few years ago, the turbines don’t actually take the place of coal power generation – they’re additional to it. So, in other words, so long as the desal plan continues to turn sea water into crappy tapwater, the turbines are hardly very ‘green’ at all as their effect on coal consumption is zilch

So, in other words, so long as the desal plan continues to turn sea water into utterly pure tapwater, the turbines are incredibly ‘green’ as their effect on coal consumption is reduce it by precisely the amount that would be required if the electricity wasn’t being sourced from wind power.

Watson 12:35 pm 07 Nov 11

Holden Caulfield said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Holden Caulfield said :

OpenYourMind said :

Next thing we’ll be hearing that old furphy about windmills being bird killers.

Yeah, I’m with you mate. Some crazy tried to tell me the earth is round the other day. I just laughed.

Causes of Bird Fatalities

Supporting evidence that birds are killed by wind turbine strikes. Thanks. 😉

Happy for people to argue over the significance of the numbers killed (or predicted to be killed), I’m not really all that fussed. Suffice to say it’s enough of a concern to be affecting approvals on wind farm developments being made in Australia today.

The chart you supplied doesn’t take in account the species of birds being killed and therefore cannot determine if any predicted losses are to endangered species. Whether you like it or not, those things do matter.

I love birds. All for protecting them. But if I were asked to ceremonially sacrifice 1 near-extinct bird a year to allow wind powered electricity generation, I would start sharpening my ceremonial cleaver.

On the other hand, I laughed so much when the airport extension was stopped because of the earless dragon or corroberree frog or whatever endangered little creature it was. Just as an example of how people who will use the enviromental argument when it suits them only.

A bit of pragmatism can go a long way…

Holden Caulfield 12:02 pm 07 Nov 11

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Holden Caulfield said :

OpenYourMind said :

Next thing we’ll be hearing that old furphy about windmills being bird killers.

Yeah, I’m with you mate. Some crazy tried to tell me the earth is round the other day. I just laughed.

Causes of Bird Fatalities

Supporting evidence that birds are killed by wind turbine strikes. Thanks. 😉

Happy for people to argue over the significance of the numbers killed (or predicted to be killed), I’m not really all that fussed. Suffice to say it’s enough of a concern to be affecting approvals on wind farm developments being made in Australia today.

The chart you supplied doesn’t take in account the species of birds being killed and therefore cannot determine if any predicted losses are to endangered species. Whether you like it or not, those things do matter.

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