EFTPOS not accepted in Canberra?

thatsnotme said :

cbjcurtin said :

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Would you mind sharing what your total cost is per EFTPOS transaction? I know that EFTPOS charge 5 cents for transactions above $15, and nothing for transactions below $15, but the merchant fees charged by the banks themselves aren’t available to look up online.

If I came to your business and spent $7.50, via EFTPOS (from a savings account, not on a credit card) what would that cost you? If I’d spent $3, or $20, how much would that expense to you change?

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I’d love to know what the actual cost to business of a standard non-credit card transaction is. There are so many elements involved, that you’d I think have to work at a bank, or operate a business, to ever know.

Really sorry for the slow reply, but we pay:
a $32 a month flat fee for the terminal (we have 4)
debit card payments cost us 14c flat fee
standard credit card cost .74%
Premium credit cards cost us 1.29%
and commercial credit cards cost us 1.44%

the cost of sales across all eftpos and credit sales on our last months bill was .92% which I see as cheap compared with other costs and loses.

BimboGeek said :

You might find that the “no split bills” cafes are happy to make an exception if you make it easy for them.

Yes, my friend and I went to a cafe/restaurant the other day where they had a sign “no bill splitting” and we asked if they would (yes, I know there was a sign, but if you don’t ask you don’t get, and we were the only people in the place) and they agreed we could pay half each. On EFTPOS.

thatsnotme said :

cbjcurtin said :

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Would you mind sharing what your total cost is per EFTPOS transaction? I know that EFTPOS charge 5 cents for transactions above $15, and nothing for transactions below $15, but the merchant fees charged by the banks themselves aren’t available to look up online.

If I came to your business and spent $7.50, via EFTPOS (from a savings account, not on a credit card) what would that cost you? If I’d spent $3, or $20, how much would that expense to you change?

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I’d love to know what the actual cost to business of a standard non-credit card transaction is. There are so many elements involved, that you’d I think have to work at a bank, or operate a business, to ever know.

With a throughput mostly between 1-5k per month ( in other words quite low) we pay 5c flat per eftpos and 0.64% on credit.

Split bills, like corkage on the fourth bottle, are discretionary. If there’s a long line behind the group it’s difficult for waiters and other customers to get around them, they each wish to split differently and so on, then it’s easier to offer change or bring the eftpos to the table after they already figured out who owes what. It’s rude to say never, but it’s fair to push back a little. You might find that the “no split bills” cafes are happy to make an exception if you make it easy for them.

On the split bills thing, I agree 10 people splitting a $50 bill is ridiculous, but at the same time 10 people not being allowed to split a $500 is also ridiculous.

cbjcurtin said :

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

Would you mind sharing what your total cost is per EFTPOS transaction? I know that EFTPOS charge 5 cents for transactions above $15, and nothing for transactions below $15, but the merchant fees charged by the banks themselves aren’t available to look up online.

If I came to your business and spent $7.50, via EFTPOS (from a savings account, not on a credit card) what would that cost you? If I’d spent $3, or $20, how much would that expense to you change?

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I’d love to know what the actual cost to business of a standard non-credit card transaction is. There are so many elements involved, that you’d I think have to work at a bank, or operate a business, to ever know.

what_the said :

What about those swipe attachment to iPads where transactions are processed through the iPad. This seems like a really good low cost option.

The cost isn’t in the hardware, merchant terminals are owned by the banks and leased to a merchant for a pittance of a monthly fee. Where it kicks them is in the transaction fee, % calculated on a sliding scale. Micropayment services like the ones who supply those dongles tend to be a bit steeper than what you can negotiate with the banks.

zorro29 said :

well said, #65 and #66….totally agree about parking meters (for any $ amount it’s annoying, but I recall some in Canberra with $13 fees and only take coins!! Not just cash…coins only and no change given…total rort…)

also seems more unsafe to me. surely having less cash around is a better option all-around

Parking meters is where it really does make sense to have cards, and what’s particularly annoying is that the current 2000 series machines that are in most ACT Government carparks, always had the provision to accept card payments if they were specced by the customer. They were ordered obviously without that functionality, because some moron in Urban Services back in the day probably didn’t know about inflation.

As a small business we love Eftpos, there is no risk to us, the money is deposited in our bank the same day (usually by 11pm). We encourage people to use Eftpos that way we use less change and less trips to the bank. We have no minimum spend, I honestly cant see why all businesses wouldn’t want/need eftpos.

The costs aren’t really that big for a business the bank owns all the equipment and services it. all you do is pay a very small percentage on some transactions and a small flat fee on others.

watto23 said :

Mike Bessenger said :

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card, or the muppets who use a visa debit card and select credit, or the 10 hipsters that want to split their $50 bill 10 ways and each pay using there frequent flier gold credit card.

We’re talking about small business here, if people pull their heads in you might find that more small food business’ might start taking cards.

All of these can be cafe rules, ie minimum eftpos purchase and no split bills. But that in itself is why this thread started. Usually you are unaware of the terms and conditions until it comes time to pay.

Don’t forget adding a surcharge for Public Holidays as well…

I normally carry a bit of cash on me, but yesterday the cash I had on me was enough to pay for a few hours of parking, so I used it for that. After a long meeting and a heated emotional discussion, I went into the closest takeaway/cafe type store to buy a cold drink. They had eftpost, they had Paywave, but they also had a $10 minimum and refused to even add $1 to the total to allow me to purchase a drink from their establishment. I walked outside and discovered right next door, a kwik-e-mart, and went inside to buy a drink. They also had eftpos AND paywave, but this place now had an $11 minimum. It was hot, I’m 6 months pregnant and I just wanted to buy a cold drink and I don’t see why I should now have to look around for things I may or may not want, just to fulfil their policy of a minimum eftpos amount when all I need is something cold to drink. I called for the manager who would not offer any other solution, would not accept my offer of simply adding another $1 to the transaction amount.. So I asked for a glass of water. They shook their head and said no, sorry, we can’t offer that either.

This was the Cafe on Childers in the new part of ANU and the store next to it.

well said, #65 and #66….totally agree about parking meters (for any $ amount it’s annoying, but I recall some in Canberra with $13 fees and only take coins!! Not just cash…coins only and no change given…total rort…)

also seems more unsafe to me. surely having less cash around is a better option all-around

What about those swipe attachment to iPads where transactions are processed through the iPad. This seems like a really good low cost option.

Side note – I’ve never understood what the problems with splitting bills is? It’s standard practice in the US (as is decent table service, tips certainly makers waiters friendlier…)

Society should move towards a cashless system. Much more efficient and convenient.

To add to the EFTPOS-less cafes in our capital, PARKING METERS! Where are the meters accepting CC’s? I work as a consultant and need to occasionally drive to client sites. I don’t wanna have to carry around coins everywhere. A recent visit to Sydney revels that all their meters accept CC’s. How so bloody convenient!!!!!

Still don’t understand people siding with businesses not needing EFTPOS facilities. If we continued to do things the same way as we had always done things, we’d still be in caves battling off rivals for the nearest mammoth (or something).

Cash-less is the new thing (and by new, I mean decades old). The technology is available, why not use it? People shouldn’t be forced to pay one way or another because of the choice of the business. If you can have it another way, why not?

All these pathetic fears about hipsters wanting to divvy up bills 10-ways is ridiculous. As always, the majority of the reasonable population get punished because of unfounded fears of the few.

And anyway, if an occasional person splits a bill…who gives a sh**?

The only people businesses hurt with not offering payment alternatives is themselves…savvy customers will take their business elsewhere.

It still amazes me that we have such wonderful technology and yet are so far behind in some respects (this being one of them).

(on a side note, Japan, one of the most tech-advanced countries, had the lowest CC availability of any place I have ever been – even the Maccas would only take cash – very annoying for a tourist. But, again, EFTPOS facilities aren’t just friendlier for locals, they’re much more convenient and cost-friendly for tourists)

c_c™ said :

Mike Bessenger said :

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card

If people took off the tin foil and embraced pay wave, that would be a good thing. Customer payments would be faster, cues would be shorter.

But my sole purpose in life is to inconvenience you, you can’t deny me that

Mike Bessenger said :

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card, or the muppets who use a visa debit card and select credit, or the 10 hipsters that want to split their $50 bill 10 ways and each pay using there frequent flier gold credit card.

We’re talking about small business here, if people pull their heads in you might find that more small food business’ might start taking cards.

All of these can be cafe rules, ie minimum eftpos purchase and no split bills. But that in itself is why this thread started. Usually you are unaware of the terms and conditions until it comes time to pay.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Only the most gigantic of paranoid morons fear pay wave.

Embrace science, idiots.

Equally, only the most paranoid of morons fear carrying cash.

FWIW, I use pay wave a lot.

Only the most gigantic of paranoid morons fear pay wave.

Embrace science, idiots.

c_c™ said :

Mike Bessenger said :

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card

If people took off the tin foil and embraced pay wave, that would be a good thing. Customer payments would be faster, cues would be shorter.

Yeah, or maybe you could mind your own business.

Mike Bessenger said :

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card

If people took off the tin foil and embraced pay wave, that would be a good thing. Customer payments would be faster, cues would be shorter.

KB1971 said :

460cixy said :

IrishPete said :

KB1971 said :

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

How will they ever extract $10 out of you for a Mars Bar?

Indeed. I think inquiries have shown that about half of service station profits are from non-fuel sales. 10 years ago I used to frequent an Ampol or Mobil (at the corner of Canberra Avenue and Ipswich St in Fyshwick) because it had card payment at the pump (I lived reasonably nearby, but there were closer servos). But about half the time it wasn’t working. I presumed they eventually abandoned it because of unreliability, but now I think different – I don’t think they were motivated it keep it working.

IP

Ip is right. All the money is made of the shity impulse buys and other crap in the actual shop

It wasnt IP that said it…….

We who ever it was is 100% correct

460cixy said :

IrishPete said :

KB1971 said :

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

How will they ever extract $10 out of you for a Mars Bar?

Indeed. I think inquiries have shown that about half of service station profits are from non-fuel sales. 10 years ago I used to frequent an Ampol or Mobil (at the corner of Canberra Avenue and Ipswich St in Fyshwick) because it had card payment at the pump (I lived reasonably nearby, but there were closer servos). But about half the time it wasn’t working. I presumed they eventually abandoned it because of unreliability, but now I think different – I don’t think they were motivated it keep it working.

IP

Ip is right. All the money is made of the shity impulse buys and other crap in the actual shop

It wasnt IP that said it…….

IrishPete said :

KB1971 said :

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

How will they ever extract $10 out of you for a Mars Bar?

Indeed. I think inquiries have shown that about half of service station profits are from non-fuel sales. 10 years ago I used to frequent an Ampol or Mobil (at the corner of Canberra Avenue and Ipswich St in Fyshwick) because it had card payment at the pump (I lived reasonably nearby, but there were closer servos). But about half the time it wasn’t working. I presumed they eventually abandoned it because of unreliability, but now I think different – I don’t think they were motivated it keep it working.

IP

Ip is right. All the money is made of the shity impulse buys and other crap in the actual shop

Having eftpos would attract the tards that want to put there $3.50 coffee on to their credit card, or the muppets who use a visa debit card and select credit, or the 10 hipsters that want to split their $50 bill 10 ways and each pay using there frequent flier gold credit card.

We’re talking about small business here, if people pull their heads in you might find that more small food business’ might start taking cards.

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

Aaah Woolworths. One of the few reasons its worthwhile getting a credit card through them, is because their servos allow you to use their cards to do that. I realise its a way of ensuring loyalty, but given all the servos in Canberra charge more or less the same and there is a distinct lack of independants, i have to choose one evil empire over the other. So I chose Woolworths, basically because I also fly a bit, so the extra 30-40k in points a year gets me a few flights or upgrades.

As for electronic payments, I had a guy deliver 50 sqm of bamboo flooring and was shocked to find out he had a wireless eftpos/CC terminal to pay with. Worked well for him and he said he can’t believe he used to drive around with thousands in a truck to get to the bank.

gungsuperstar said :

I’ve never seen such a long thread on RA about nothing.

Yes, a smart business is offering whatever conveniences it can to customers – wait until you all discover phone apps that will scan your groceries as you go, leaving nothing to do at the end but pay with a Pay Wave/Paypass!

But to be so critical of business who choose not to offer it is ridiculous. I see all the benefits of it, but this is a personal choice. For every efficiency there’s an inefficiency. And even the time spent weighing up these efficiencies vs inefficiency is just creating a circular conundrum because that time itself is an inefficiency.

There’s the scouring of records; there’s the training time; there’s the fact that these systems generally go down about once a month; there are the surcharges on purchases; there are the bank fees not just from the use of EFT itself, but your account fees. And all the rest.

As I said, I think it’s not good business to not offer something that your customers want. But that can be said about self serve (and has been in this thread re petrol stations), it can be said about proper shop assistants who existed 15 years ago to assist the old and frail. It can be said about the merging of cigarette and service desks.

Man this site would go to hell quickly if we commenced long threads about every tiny, first-world, almost non issue that we find as we go about our first world lives whinging about how we’re going to pay for our night out.

I’m sure you work hard for it. Or at least I’m sure you think you work hard for it. But seriously? This is such a non issue. If you don’t like the business, go somewhere else. It’s the beauty of living in a city full of self-entitled people that you only ever have to drive to the next suburb to find another shopping complex.

Wow, you sure had a lot to say about nothing.

JC said :

thatsnotme said :

Exactly. The servo at Kippax – which was a Mobil if I remember correctly – had this option. Then, the servo was taken over by 7/11, and lo and behold, the ‘pay at the pump’ systems all vanished.

On the other hand though, the up-sell inside isn’t ever too hard, and the eftpos terminal is super fast, so it could be worse.

Whilst the readers where there, they stopped using them at Kippax well before 7 Eleven took over, I recall it was about late 2006. All 7 Eleven did was finally remove the machines and covered the hole with their new pump branding stickers.

Yeah, the ones at Mobil Erindale have been gone for yonks and were not working for ages before that.

thatsnotme said :

Exactly. The servo at Kippax – which was a Mobil if I remember correctly – had this option. Then, the servo was taken over by 7/11, and lo and behold, the ‘pay at the pump’ systems all vanished.

On the other hand though, the up-sell inside isn’t ever too hard, and the eftpos terminal is super fast, so it could be worse.

Whilst the readers where there, they stopped using them at Kippax well before 7 Eleven took over, I recall it was about late 2006. All 7 Eleven did was finally remove the machines and covered the hole with their new pump branding stickers.

Don’t forget those food chains (Lebanese cuisine comes to mind, started at Woden Plaza in the 70s-80s?) which refuse your EFTPOS but happily point you to their personal home-style ATM’s which probably charge you $5 extra.

jayskette said :

Hi OP, were you visiting Brew Bar in Tuggeranong Hyperdome?
Such a popular place, full of people at all times, and it’s cash only. I deliberately do not visit that place because of that. Even its sister cafe at Athllon drive, with less traffic, has eftpos.

G’day
I have certainly been there and yes have had this problem! Could not believe it as Coffee Club gladly takes card payments (with a minimum purchase price of course!) It will certainly deter my patronage in future.

The preposterous, entitled blathering on this thread is ludicrous. The customer isn’t always right, the customer is often a dickhead. If you feel too goddamn high and mighty to handle currency that’s been molested by us commoners, then f**k off somewhere that does take EFTPOS or paywave. Otherwise STFU, It’s true that a lot of small businesses pay cash-in-hand, but otherwise they would be unprofitable. The workers know they’re being paid ‘off-the-books’ so it’s not an issue of exploitation, and in the majority of cases the owners are forced to do it to maintain profitability. The only people who have a problem with it are entitled, elitist yuppies.

I’ve never seen such a long thread on RA about nothing.

Yes, a smart business is offering whatever conveniences it can to customers – wait until you all discover phone apps that will scan your groceries as you go, leaving nothing to do at the end but pay with a Pay Wave/Paypass!

But to be so critical of business who choose not to offer it is ridiculous. I see all the benefits of it, but this is a personal choice. For every efficiency there’s an inefficiency. And even the time spent weighing up these efficiencies vs inefficiency is just creating a circular conundrum because that time itself is an inefficiency.

There’s the scouring of records; there’s the training time; there’s the fact that these systems generally go down about once a month; there are the surcharges on purchases; there are the bank fees not just from the use of EFT itself, but your account fees. And all the rest.

As I said, I think it’s not good business to not offer something that your customers want. But that can be said about self serve (and has been in this thread re petrol stations), it can be said about proper shop assistants who existed 15 years ago to assist the old and frail. It can be said about the merging of cigarette and service desks.

Man this site would go to hell quickly if we commenced long threads about every tiny, first-world, almost non issue that we find as we go about our first world lives whinging about how we’re going to pay for our night out.

I’m sure you work hard for it. Or at least I’m sure you think you work hard for it. But seriously? This is such a non issue. If you don’t like the business, go somewhere else. It’s the beauty of living in a city full of self-entitled people that you only ever have to drive to the next suburb to find another shopping complex.

KB1971 said :

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

How will they ever extract $10 out of you for a Mars Bar?

Exactly. The servo at Kippax – which was a Mobil if I remember correctly – had this option. Then, the servo was taken over by 7/11, and lo and behold, the ‘pay at the pump’ systems all vanished.

On the other hand though, the up-sell inside isn’t ever too hard, and the eftpos terminal is super fast, so it could be worse.

Personally I prefer to pay by cash in cafes because I find it easier to budget for such discretionary expenses by withdrawing a certain amount of cash and using that as my weekly limit, and also because I don’t like using my card for any payment where the amount is too low for the terminal to be bothered asking for a PIN.

Now if only I could get my bank to disable PIN-free transactions (including that stupid pay wave nonsense). I don’t like things which make it easier for a thief to steal and use my card.

KB1971 said :

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

How will they ever extract $10 out of you for a Mars Bar?

Indeed. I think inquiries have shown that about half of service station profits are from non-fuel sales. 10 years ago I used to frequent an Ampol or Mobil (at the corner of Canberra Avenue and Ipswich St in Fyshwick) because it had card payment at the pump (I lived reasonably nearby, but there were closer servos). But about half the time it wasn’t working. I presumed they eventually abandoned it because of unreliability, but now I think different – I don’t think they were motivated it keep it working.

IP

My strategy tends to be “we’ll it’s either card or I can’t pay”. Few businesses actually advertise these bullshit policies. “Strategy” is probably an overstatement. I just don’t carry much cash. Get modern.

It’s pretty sensible to carry a bit of cash on you in case the EFTPOS system is down. I’ve had that happen before at Supabarn. The advantage of that is if you encounter a cafe where you can’t tap your PayPass to pay for your soy latte, then you could perhaps whip out a $20 from that wallet of yours and you’re good to go.

Everyone whinging that cash costs the staff time has completely failed to see that EFTPOS costs more of that staff time. Those payments aren’t approved instantly, you just have to stand there staring at each other for a few minutes while you wait.

Hi OP, were you visiting Brew Bar in Tuggeranong Hyperdome?
Such a popular place, full of people at all times, and it’s cash only. I deliberately do not visit that place because of that. Even its sister cafe at Athllon drive, with less traffic, has eftpos.

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

Most Mobil and BP stations had this at least 18 years ago, though they started to remove them around 6 years ago. Not sure why because it was convenient and of course the risk of a drive off is 0, because you put the card it, it takes pre-authorisation of around $100 then charges at the end.

Now most Caltex (or maybe it is just the Woolworths co-branded stations) have them, but only for Woolworths/ANZ cards that use a ‘pay wave’ type system, though I noticed a Woolworths/Caltex in Sydney the other day that looked like it had a chip and pin reader, but no mention of being general use.

muscledude_oz said :

One thing which bugs me are businesses which don’t have Visa PayWave. Rebel Sport at Woden Plaza in particular. I realise all you have to do is stick your card into the bottom of the terminal and press a few buttons, but when Visa rolls out something like PayWave it is reasonable to expect a large retail chain to have it.

The larger chains the EFTPOS is built into their registers, so in some ways rolling out new technology is much harder than business who have a standalone machine.

I always carry some cash, simply because it makes life easier when something like this crops up. If others want to make their own lives harder, it’s no skin off my nose.

c_c™ said :

Cafe’s are high turnover, low margin businesses. It’s up to them to decide whether the convenience of offering EFTPOS outweighs the added expense.

There are still (often significant) expenses incurred when accepting cash as payment, but often these are indirect expenses in the form of staff time, and possibly security expenses for cash pickups (if the business is large enough). I know from experience in transferring a business over to accepting electronic payments that the upfront cost of EFTPOS, BPAY, etc, is generally off-set quite quickly from the financial savings made in staff wages and productivity savings in staff time. And it’s more convenient for a not-significant group of your customers, which is something a good business shouldn’t choose to ignore.

Having a minimum transaction policy is completely understandable.

Having no EFTPOS option & only accepting cash in 2013 is just dodgy. The ATO should be raiding these places on the regular.

Cafe’s are high turnover, low margin businesses. It’s up to them to decide whether the convenience of offering EFTPOS outweighs the added expense.

Even stupider, a business I deal with sends out accounts and only accepts payment by cheque. Who even has a chequebook these days and what business can afford to have their cashflow tied up waiting for cheques to clear, let alone handling the dishonoured ones.

Just to be ironic, they include at the bottom of the account “Prompt Payment is Appreciated”!

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

I used to go to a petrol station at Kippax just to use this facility when my daughter was born, 12 years ago.. But I couldn’t tell you where they offer this these days..

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

How will they ever extract $10 out of you for a Mars Bar?

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

Found a servo with these on the way up the Blue Mountains earlier in the year. Most convenient.

curmudgery said :

You refusing to carry cash is your problem. Why are you trying to make it the business’ problem?

Wrong – firstly I, and the other commenters, haven’t said we refuse to carry cash (obviously that’s impractical), but that we have a distinct preference for using commonly accepted electronic payment methods.

Secondly, it is most definitely and legimately a business’s problem when they choose to reduce their pool of potential customers, simply by refusing to accept money electronically.

curmudgery said :

You refusing to carry cash is your problem. Why are you trying to make it the business’ problem?

Because the age of getting cash in an envelope every week, putting some in the bank and keeping the rest for bills & such has gone.

I dont believe in a completley cashless society but if you are running certain businesses, electronic funds transfers are essential.

Deref said :

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

there are a few of them around but not many sadly…i love that system too. pay and out. fast for all parties.

i love #22 and #23…”/why are you trying to make innocent businesses offer technology and make it easy for customers? boohooo/” – uh, cos we’re customers and should be able to pay in cash or card. if a business is too tight to offer EFTPOS for small purchases, then at least give us the option of paying the fee (not a usurious charge, just what they would be charged)

i disagree that prices would increase – prices are pretty hefty for most services (usually due to the cost of staffing)…not sure the cost of offering payment alternatives will mean coffees will skyrocket (that is the BS all companies spin when they want to get out of doing something)…”/oh but the money! think of the children!/”

go cash-less

muscledude_oz said :

One thing which bugs me are businesses which don’t have Visa PayWave. Rebel Sport at Woden Plaza in particular. I realise all you have to do is stick your card into the bottom of the terminal and press a few buttons, but when Visa rolls out something like PayWave it is reasonable to expect a large retail chain to have it.

Now THIS is a first world problem…….

What annoys me is petrol stations. In the US they all have card facilities at the pump so that you don’t have to go inside and stand in line. I’ve yet to see one in Australia that offers that. Some look as if they have the equipment but it never works.

The (tax) law is the law (to state the bleeding obvious) but it would be interesting to see how many small/medium businesses would be left standing if all the tax and employment laws were rigorously and consistently applied. In that event, people who are perturbed about EFTPOS/Paywave not being universally available, even for the smallest purchase, might find their choices somewhat reduced, and prices somewhat higher – a bit like if governments, or large companies, ran all the shops, cafes and restaurants.

You refusing to carry cash is your problem. Why are you trying to make it the business’ problem?

johnboy said :

Costs them money every time cash is used too, particularly when hiring staff on low wages.

Ever tried doing a monthly stock take when some of the staff have been under ringing the purchases and pocketing the difference?

Firstly you know you’re down a load of money and secondly the bloody numbers on the stocktake won’t reconcile no matter what you do.

For a legit business running a straight set of books putting everything in on pay wave would at least come close to the real costs of running floats and reconciling them.

Less chance of getting some loser with a knife making off with your days takings too.

Exactly – there are costs associated with taking cash payments, they’re just not as upfront (and hence obvious, even to business owners) as electronic payments.

I too hate carrying cash around – I much prefer electronic payment methods. As far as I’m concerned, if a business doesn’t want to take my money electronically, then they don’t really want my business. And they certainly aren’t offering a level of customer service I find acceptable. I even cancelled my takeaway order at Pizza Gusto and walked out the first and only time I went there (despite hearing rave reviews) because they only took cash. There’s no way I want to support that type of non-customer focused business.

We owned a cafe some years ago and I have to say that the costs of having the terminal for EFTPOS and Visa/MasterCard were not prohibitive. There was an equipment rental component and a minimum service fee; meaning that, if the take through the terminal was not enough for the charges to reach the minimum, we were charged the minimum.

As I recall, credit card service fees were a percentage of the transaction, whereas EFTPOS fees were a fixed amount. This is why I can understand having a minimum transaction amount for EFTPOS (25c charge for a $2.50 cup of coffee is 10% of the amount) but not for credit cards.

We never considered passing the fee onto customers as a surcharge. It’s a cost of doing business and it would have been nice to eliminate banking altogether. As it was, we used the cash to pay the wages and some of the local suppliers.

Why don’t we hear anyone say how afraid they are to walk into a bar and put down a credit card, hoping that when the bill comes due it will be accurate? By the time the bar is done getting you drunk, do you actually count up the value of the drinks, do they give you an itemised bill or do they just ring through whatever they think they can get away with?

As noted, any business running everything through the computer properly and giving accurate receipts is running honestly, cash or eftpos.

muscledude_oz said :

One thing which bugs me are businesses which don’t have Visa PayWave. Rebel Sport at Woden Plaza in particular. I realise all you have to do is stick your card into the bottom of the terminal and press a few buttons, but when Visa rolls out something like PayWave it is reasonable to expect a large retail chain to have it.

They might not have upgraded the infrastructure yet, which would also cost money. I would expect having paywave cost more ontop as well.

I prefer to use cash whenever I reasonably can, and am surprised how often people are willing to negotiate when it comes to the folding.

All I can say is, the cakes at Flute are worth having to get cash out for!

How the flip do you expect us to hide money from the tax man and avoid paying too much tax if we have EFTPOS!

Cash money, cash money!!!

The chances of an establishment having EFTPOS in Canberra is way higher than in Sydney. If you can only use EFT when paying for your lunch, your options are truly limited..

One thing which bugs me are businesses which don’t have Visa PayWave. Rebel Sport at Woden Plaza in particular. I realise all you have to do is stick your card into the bottom of the terminal and press a few buttons, but when Visa rolls out something like PayWave it is reasonable to expect a large retail chain to have it.

Er, the first thing you do before ordering food/drink is figure out how you’re going to pay for it.

johnboy said :

Costs them money every time cash is used too, particularly when hiring staff on low wages.

Ever tried doing a monthly stock take when some of the staff have been under ringing the purchases and pocketing the difference?

Firstly you know you’re down a load of money and secondly the bloody numbers on the stocktake won’t reconcile no matter what you do.

For a legit business running a straight set of books putting everything in on pay wave would at least come close to the real costs of running floats and reconciling them.

Less chance of getting some loser with a knife making off with your days takings too.

Some restuarants in the US have a system where they have a sign by the cash register saying ‘IF YOU DON’T GET A RECEIPT THE MANAGER WILL GIVE YOU A FULL REFUND’.

Banks are making so much money off cards that they don’t even require a signature or password. A few hundred dollars off a stolen wavey card before it’s noticed and reported is just peanuts into their profit.

Of course what you really want are the points that give you free stuff, right?

Guess who has to pay for those points. It’s not Santa.

Really not that big of a deal. You learn the first time and come prepared the second time, assuming it’s worth returning. Pizza Gusto is a prime example. Slightly inconvenient they’re cash only but the product is good, so come prepared.

Look at it from the business owner’s point of view. Takeaway places generally sell a lot of small items. And it costs them money every time eftpos is used.

steveu said :

f4te said :

A surcharge-free MasterCard PayPass / Visa payWave system should be standard in this day and age.

Yep. Somehow I think the banks make enough out of our money on the short term money market to make it worthwhile. And the interest rates on credit cards is obscene, I would find it hard to comprehend that they are not making alot out of that side of their business too.

Either way, banks are still making record profits. And they had the luxury of being protected by the federal govt during the GFC (which in return, the govt should have imposed greater regulation as an assurance that the stupidity of the US wouldnt happen here IMHO).

The other issue is that the fees the banks charge for the privilege of having an EFTPOS terminal at your business are astronomical, plus you have to guarantee a minimum level of usage per month, or it will be removed.

It’s just another way for the banks to gouge their customers.

+1000 to all the comments above including OP

I am also someone who doesn’t like to carry cash (any really). If a place has an EFTPOS minimum (or worse, won’t accept it), I take my business elsewhere. Not only is it dodgy, it’s not consumer friendly

Cash-free society wooooooo!!!!

f4te said :

A surcharge-free MasterCard PayPass / Visa payWave system should be standard in this day and age.

Yep. Somehow I think the banks make enough out of our money on the short term money market to make it worthwhile. And the interest rates on credit cards is obscene, I would find it hard to comprehend that they are not making alot out of that side of their business too.

Either way, banks are still making record profits. And they had the luxury of being protected by the federal govt during the GFC (which in return, the govt should have imposed greater regulation as an assurance that the stupidity of the US wouldnt happen here IMHO).

cmdwedge said :

I assume that all cash-only places are not reporting all of their income for tax purposes. You’d probably find that the staff are paid under the table too.

I’m right there with you in that assumption. I’ve also noticed a few businesses who have eftpos during normal trading hours, then cash only on their boxed food at the end of the day.. Writing it off as wastage perhaps?

I assume that all cash-only places are not reporting all of their income for tax purposes. You’d probably find that the staff are paid under the table too.

A surcharge-free MasterCard PayPass / Visa payWave system should be standard in this day and age.

Agree, with a caveat.

EFTPOS for a retail business these days is the equivalent of having an email account…it’s a baseline minimum requirement of doing business.

That said though, spare a thought for the poor cafe owner. Cafe’s have been popping up all over Canberra at such a high rate over the past few years that it has me thinking the marginal return from operating in that industry has either flatlined or is trending down. Setting up the EFTPOS machine is probably the least of their worries at this point