Motorcycle lane filtering to be trialled in the ACT

User777 said :

What your car can do 0-100 in 3 seconds or less?

No, I could get reasonably close though, but it doesn’t matter anyway because my e-peen is massive and much, much bigger than yours!!!

As an aside, I have no problem with the lane filtering trial, it’s a common sense approach…

Providing road users of all persuasions have the right attitude to sharing, patience and consideration. Sadly, that’s not going to be the case, as evidenced by the replies here.

Captain RAAF said :

User777 said :

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

So much fail……I’ll be sure to wave as I filter past you at the lights.

I’ll be sure to beat you to the front position, because I prefer it just as much in my car as you do on your bike, and I have the HP to get me there as quick as you can!
Go through the intersection in the position you arrived in, like everyone else!

What your car can do 0-100 in 3 seconds or less? Yeah right.

Besides which, as of the start of this trial we’ll be able legally do what we’ve all been doing since motorcycles were invented. Get used to it.

gooterz said :

Roksteddy said :

gooterz said :

The government is pretty much using the learner riders in the next 2 years as guinea pigs.

Learner drivers are prohibited from filtering

Why if its so safe?

Because one needs experience and good handling skills first. Learn to ride and then you’ll understand. It is safe, but for someone who can’t handle a bike properly it might end up in some dented side panels.
Remember learners on bikes only need to pass a 1 day course to ride. There is no one to tell them what to do etc. Its different to L plates on a car. Most motorcyclists would agree the law is perfectlyu fine for someone on a full license but not for a learner.

User777 said :

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

So much fail……I’ll be sure to wave as I filter past you at the lights.

I’ll be sure to beat you to the front position, because I prefer it just as much in my car as you do on your bike, and I have the HP to get me there as quick as you can!
Go through the intersection in the position you arrived in, like everyone else!

Roksteddy said :

gooterz said :

The government is pretty much using the learner riders in the next 2 years as guinea pigs.

Learner drivers are prohibited from filtering

Why if its so safe?

Road use initiatives other than “reduced speed limits” are bound to spook the cardigan brigade (those who remain appalled that ringing a cowbell before entering an intersection has been left to individual prerogative).

Nanny state advocates aside, this is a common sense move that brings the ACT into line with a) the state of NSW that has us pinned on all four sides, and b) other nations that still treat grown-ups as grown-ups.

Being “out front” of the pack of traffic is undoubtedly safer whilst on a motorbike – I’ve a friend who was on a large capacity “hi-vis” motorcycle on Northbourne Ave and suffered a nasty rear-end collision whilst stopped at the back of a lane.

I do hope our car drivers embrace the 2-year trial quickly — to gauge the worst temperament of the fist-clenched Cardigan rolling to work in their 1.8 tonne arm-chair, you only need observe how pushbike riders are treated from time to time.

Anybody who gets themselves from A to B using lower-footprint environmentally responsible forms of transport should be encouraged – particularly with measures that improve their safety (like this).

gooterz said :

The government is pretty much using the learner riders in the next 2 years as guinea pigs.

Learner drivers are prohibited from filtering

While I’m ambivalent about this lane filtering thing, if the government was serious about motorcyclist safety they’d mandate that they wear hi-visibility clothing, similar to what professional motorbike riders wear.

I understand a motorbike cop in Victoria campaigned for this, but was unsuccessful. You’d think that a more progressive ACT government would be more inclined to introduce a law that would save motorcyclists lives by making them much more visible on the road.

I think it’s a good idea to trial this and see how it goes. I’m not a motorcyclist, but have no issues with it.

Most of the objections I hear from people are oriented around “why should they get ahead of me, it’s not fair”, which is a very immature attitude to have to driving.

HenryBG said :

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

I think the people who object to this sort of thing object not for any rational reasons, rather that they see a section of society getting an unfair advantage over them. It’s not rational on any level and doesn’t withstand the smallest level of scrutiny but nevertheless, it does cause gnashing of teeth and rending of hair.

Letting motorcyclists go through red lights after stopping also reduces congestion and i’m sure you can pit rules around it to make it safe, however now everyone will follow the rules completely and ultimately people will be injured or killed.

The reason for the laws is to make it easy for it to be used and everyone is equal on the road.
The biggest issue I have with this is that if a motorbike is lane filtering and traffic gets a green light the cyclist is unknown to the cars who are quickly doing speed. The motorcyclist has to merge with traffic, this causes cars that are closely packed looking at the car in front to suddenly break.

The thing about road rules is that they target the weakest driver in the poorest weather conditions in the dark on a rainy night.
The government is pretty much using the learner riders in the next 2 years as guinea pigs. I guess this will only not stay a law if only a few deaths or accidents result from it?

Sounds like there’ll be lots of opportunities for “lane filtering” along the tramline:

“Documents lodged with the variation to the Territory Plan say traffic signals will be installed at up to nine intersections that do not have signals at the moment, with no unsignalled crossings of the tracks allowed. For speed and efficiency, curves and vehicle crossings of the track must be limited, it says.” (from yesterday’s CT).

HenryBG said :

magiccar9 said :

So, to sum up – this is a pointless and ill conceived law designed to keep the minorities happy. It has none of the tangible benefits described in the media release, and yet again our local politicians have demonstrated they’re incapable of dealing with the important issues in this town.

Interesting that you are “summing up” with a bunch of points that many here have already demolished.

Allowing motorcycles to lane filter is safer for motorcyclists and reduces congestion on the roads. Why anybody wouuld object to that is beyond me.

Demolished by motorcyclist opinion? Where are the solid facts that it reduces congestion? That point alone is a load of crock. How does allowing 1 small motorcycle to be at the front of the queue reduce it? It merely re-shuffles the line of traffic. Same amount of vehicles – just in a different order.

As people have excessively pointed out on this forum before in relation to speeding, the motorcyclist only gains maybe 2 or 3 seconds in their acceleration from 0 to the speed limit. They don’t gain any tangible advantage – in fact the way the traffic lights are arranged in Canberra chances are they’ll be waiting at the next set while the rest of traffic catches up.

To be honest I don’t have a problem with the lane filtering – I don’t give a toss if a motorcyclist is at the front or back, I’m opposed to the weak arguments and “opinion” that the government and motorcyclist groups/riders use to justify this law. I say bring on the trial in February – as long as the government are willing the share the data relating to ‘congestion’ from before and after to support themselves. My guess is that we’ll just hear “it’s great and it worked” from Corbell or one of the other monkeys.

HenryBG said :

.

Allowing motorcycles to lane filter is safer for motorcyclists and reduces congestion on the roads. Why anybody wouuld object to that is beyond me.

Well it’s advantageous to bikers because they get to where they’re going sooner but it does bugger all to alleviate the congestion from a car driver’s perspective. That being said filtering in congested traffic is entirely appropriate.

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

HenryBG said :

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

Already an offense – “KEEPING LEFT: On roads with a speed limit of more than 80km/h, motorists must not drive in the right-hand lane unless overtaking, turning right or making a U-turn, avoiding an obstacle or driving in congested traffic. If a ‘Keep Left Unless Overtaking’ sign is displayed, then you must keep left regardless of the speed limit.” – from NRMA top ten misunderstood road rules.
If ONLY more people were aware of this one!

Is fog lights on the top ten?

Yes, at number 6, just after keeping left. “A driver is only permitted to use fog lights if driving in fog, mist or other atmospheric condition that restricts visibility.”

magiccar9 said :

So, to sum up – this is a pointless and ill conceived law designed to keep the minorities happy. It has none of the tangible benefits described in the media release, and yet again our local politicians have demonstrated they’re incapable of dealing with the important issues in this town.

Interesting that you are “summing up” with a bunch of points that many here have already demolished.

Allowing motorcycles to lane filter is safer for motorcyclists and reduces congestion on the roads. Why anybody wouuld object to that is beyond me.

wildturkeycanoe said :

HenryBG said :

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

Already an offense – “KEEPING LEFT: On roads with a speed limit of more than 80km/h, motorists must not drive in the right-hand lane unless overtaking, turning right or making a U-turn, avoiding an obstacle or driving in congested traffic. If a ‘Keep Left Unless Overtaking’ sign is displayed, then you must keep left regardless of the speed limit.” – from NRMA top ten misunderstood road rules.
If ONLY more people were aware of this one!

Is fog lights on the top ten?

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

We do it so we can get into some clear space.

I find filtering to be a bit hairy – some people can be either careless or vengeful – the only reason to do it is because it’s worth it. A motorcyclist feels (and is) very vulnerable when surrounded by heavy traffic. As you say, the chance of being rear-ended or side-swiped on a bike is probably no different than in a car, but the consequences are a lot more dramatic.

(Just don’t do what I did recently which is to filter up to the front, then stall on the green light)

HenryBG said :

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

Already an offense – “KEEPING LEFT: On roads with a speed limit of more than 80km/h, motorists must not drive in the right-hand lane unless overtaking, turning right or making a U-turn, avoiding an obstacle or driving in congested traffic. If a ‘Keep Left Unless Overtaking’ sign is displayed, then you must keep left regardless of the speed limit.” – from NRMA top ten misunderstood road rules.
If ONLY more people were aware of this one!

HenryBG said :

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

Speed limit is 100 and traffic is going 80 so the idiots tailgate at 110 because the person doing 110 is too slow.

Why does everyone else get subjected to speeders dangerous drivers putting others lives at risk.

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….
.

There will be a great deal of drivers annoyed with this. I see them everyday with their “I have to be first to the next red light mentality”…

most experienced riders I know will quietly slip through to the front at lights and stealth away from the cardigan wearers in their cages. certainly speeds the trip up, but every now and again some lunatic objects and tries to close the gap. Be interesting to see how the trial goes.

User777 said :

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

So much fail……I’ll be sure to wave as I filter past you at the lights.

Agreed.
I’ve often thought that we should get the names of those who complain about lane widths on Northbourne, or anywhere else in Canberra, and put a restriction on their licence that forbids them from driving in Sydney or Melbourne. If they struggle here…..

Good to see the Government focusing on the really big issues… NOT!

“It allows faster accelerating vehicles to be at the front” – so does that mean shortly we’ll see the bus lights at many of out intersections allowing cars to move away before buses? Highly doubtful. What need is there for them to be at the front anyway? If we’re all doing the speed limit what benefit does it pose? I could make the same argument about the 1994 Hyundai Excel in front of me… “I can accelerate faster that you, so I must be in front.”

Also, I do hope Corbell’s new laws/trial stipulate what happens in the event of a motorcycle ‘sideswiping’ and damaging a vehicle while lane filtering. Some motorcycle riders I see struggle to stay upright on a bike, let alone feed it between 2 cars. I’ll be sure to give the motorcyclist and Corbell a nice serving should my car be hit.

So, to sum up – this is a pointless and ill conceived law designed to keep the minorities happy. It has none of the tangible benefits described in the media release, and yet again our local politicians have demonstrated they’re incapable of dealing with the important issues in this town.

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

Obvious you don’t ride as everything you have said is wrong…

it does have congestion saving benefits, More people will ride motorcycles which means less cars and congestion.

Northbourne Av lanes are plenty wide enough for filtering for most motorbikes .

Motorcyclist’s won’t be filtering in any blind spots ? It will still be against the law to filter down the left side of the left lane, Bikes are filtering on the right side of the left lane or right side of the centre lane, they can bee seen in the rear view or side mirror. Only a bone head would filter between the car and a gutter.

Australia is one of the few countries that don’t allow motorcycle lane filtering .

I don’t see why it’s taking 6 months to even start the trial.

HenryBG said :

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

One can already be fined a massive $69, in NSW at least, for not keeping left unless overtaking. Of course it’s up to the discretion of the plod at the time.

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

If you’ve actually ridden a motorcycle in traffic, you’d know it was safer for a few reasons. One of them being motorcyclists who’ve come to stop in a queue are regularly rear-ended by cars driven by people who don’t look at what’s in front of them. It may not sound like a big deal, but when two tonnes of steal impacts with your spine there’s a good chance you won’t be able to walk again. Allowing motorcycle to move to the front prevents this from happening. It also makes ZERO difference to the cars in the queue because even the slowest bike accelerate faster than 95% of cars on the road. When the lights go green, the bikes can move off without fear of a the inattention or negligence of nearby drivers, and are gone before you have a chance to rage and act like a child.

Think about it from someone else’s point of view and you’ll see why, without a doubt, it’s a lot safer. I’m not a fan of the current government but I think they are doing the right thing by trialling this. I hope they’ve thought about the necessary public awareness campaign to educate people like bd84 about the legality of the trial, and the reasons why. The last thing I really want to deal with is drivers who think they are dishing out vigilante justice by opening their doors into me while I legally filter past.

JimCharles said :

The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
.

Agreed.
I’ve never understood the objection some people have to faster traffic getting in front of them where they belong.
Sensible governance can be done, even in Canberra.

Whatever next? Fines for people who fail to “keep left unless overtaking”?

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

So much fail……I’ll be sure to wave as I filter past you at the lights.

bd84 said :

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

You don’t ride between lanes while traffic is moving. If the lanes are not wide enough or the traffic is moving then it would be unsafe and illegal. Only non motorbike/scooter riders would understand this. A good rider will not do anything that is dangerous, just like a good car driver. Most road rules always have a “when it is safe to do so stipulation”, which in Canberra seems to be ignored as drivers assume they have right of way regardless.

So, two of road users’ biggest complaints being ‘drivers don’t look/see motorcyclists’ and the ‘aggressive I need to be in front of everyone else’ have been combined into a trial which will make riders less visible and feed the need to be in front of everyone else.

I don’t see how riding between cars is safe, the riding position will put motorcyclists into blind spots more regularly, which is the most significant problem at the moment. Motorcyclists are no more likely to be rear ended in traffic than any other driver, the handful of riders that are in traffic at any time won’t make any difference. It doesn’t have any congestion solving benefits, 1 motorcyclist will save about 5 metres space. Lanes on a lot of roads (like Northbourne) are not wide enough to safely travel between lanes without a very high chance of clipping someone. If the traffic is significant, the rider has little chance of actually getting to the front, and will have nowhere to go but cut into a non-existent space between cars, increasing the risk that they will end up as a sandwich.

The amount of restrictions needed on this idea indicates in itself that it’s not really a safe thing to be doing, so why implement it?

Finally, it’s worth getting a bike here !
The whole point is that it shouldn’t annoy drivers….even a 125 auto accelerates away far quicker than most cars and it’s safely out in front in a very short space of time.
The difficulty round here is just getting drivers to stop,looking straight ahead, use their mirrors, indicate and check their blindspots…a lot don’t even know what that is.
.