Why does Tuggeranong stink?

gazket said :

we all remember the Labor government unrealistic expectations of No Waste by 2010 . Why would we need a new tip if that was the expectation of the government. I’m sure the ministers are still putting their bins out every week in 2016.

That’s the stupidity of a government brang about by voters who fell for Labor scare campaigns every election.

Corbell didn’t campaign last election yet still got in. Due to public funded government work place pamphlets no doubt.

Get the public servants on side and you have won the election in the ACT.

I think it was the Liberals who introduced the “no waste” concept. I remember Tony De Domenico making the speech.
It was just a name – nowhere was it discussed how “nil waste” would be achieved.
To be fair, Labor saw a political opportunity (my no waste is bigger than yours) and ran with.
In fact, while the concept has been abandoned the current government still call their part in the disposal of garbage in the Territory as “ACT NOWASTE” so the scam is still alive and well.

rommeldog56 said :

What the affected residents want to know is the cause(s) of the smell (which is clearly getting worse and more frequent), any potential impact on health and what is going to be done to fix it.

The cause is well-known, and it isn’t getting “worse and more frequent”. This whinge surfaces every year at least once and those emitting it seem to have very short memories.

As for the health impact of a post-rainfall stink 2 or 3 times a year…..this would be orders of magnitude less serious than the carbon monoxide you breathe in every time you visit Civic (not to mention trips to Sydney).

we all remember the Labor government unrealistic expectations of No Waste by 2010 . Why would we need a new tip if that was the expectation of the government. I’m sure the ministers are still putting their bins out every week in 2016.

That’s the stupidity of a government brang about by voters who fell for Labor scare campaigns every election.

Corbell didn’t campaign last election yet still got in. Due to public funded government work place pamphlets no doubt.

Get the public servants on side and you have won the election in the ACT.

JC, Mugga Lane is not ‘perfectly good’ – it was meant to close a few years ago, presumably for good reason. It is practically full. It stinks. Even if you think it can still be used for now, they will have to find another site somewhere else, soon enough, even if they would ‘rather’ make a motza flogging the land off as residential. Molonglo is actually very central to Canberra. Where else is there?
Chewy, only people who do not use the Monaro Hwy would consider it an ‘industrial corridor.’ There is (light) industry is on the other side of the Hwy from the tip, i.e., at Hume. Further along on that side is emergency services, the prison, horse agistment and a farm. Most of the land along side of the Hwy the tip on is reserve.
However, it is highly unfortunate that the government decided Tuggeranong should rezone any part of a major entrance road into Canberra as an industrial zone.
Are you familiar with the Monaro? It seems that people from the north (and most MLAs, it seems) etc tend not to use the Monaro as when visiting Tuggeranong they mostly seem to travel from e.g. Belco so would use the Parkway. As such they appear oblivious to the fact that many Tuggeranong residents use the Monaro as their primary road north.

rommeldog56 said :

HenryBG said :

I would also note that this methane would in the past have been subject to flaring and venting anyway, for safety reasons.

Surely it is safe to assume the methane plant would be mitigating any emissions, not exacerbating them?

On the assumption (by me) that the amount of methane to be “treated” will increase proportionally with the tips increased capacity, I do not know if or why the existing methane plant is not expanded, its capacity to treat the increased methane enhanced and/or more methane treatment plants put onto the tip site.

If that has been done or planned as at least 1 mitigation strategy to reduce that terrible smell, then I’m sure that affected residents don’t know about it. How do we know that the methane isn’t just venting into the air – and when ?

If the methane is contributing to the smell, then I don’t know why anyone would “think it safe is safe to assume the methane plant would be mitigating any emissions, not exacerbating them”.

What the affected residents want to know is the cause(s) of the smell (which is clearly getting worse and more frequent), any potential impact on health and what is going to be done to fix it.

There is only arrogant and dismissive silence from the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t and the TAMS minister. That is not acceptable.

They must know – if they don’t know, then that’s an even bigger problem !

They will know it when the class actions start.

chewy14 said :

Hmmmm, the only public amenity I think you’re supporting is of the NIMBY kind.

That pre-programmed response didn’t take that long to come out, did it.

miz said :

The ACT Government had the perfect opportunity to create a new tip when it began developing Molonglo. They probably still could find a place for one there. But the government is greedy and would rather get money for residential than plan a new public amenity.

There was a “study” done some years ago on which the decision was made to close other tip(s) and consolidate domestic and other waste disposal into Mugga Lane tip. It was the subject of discussion on RiotAct as I recall. It will be on the Net somewhere, I suppose – I can not recall if Molonglo was assessed as a possible site or not.

At the time, the usual apologists for this ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t on here criticised Tuggeranog residents for complaining about the plans to expand Mugga Lane tip. Nimbys, selfish, whingers, etc were terms I recall I think. What we have now re that terrible smell, is probably the start of the fallout of that decision being felt by residents.

miz said :

watto23 said :

dungfungus said :

Mugga Lane and West Belconnen land fills were both going to close permanently in 2015.
Only one has closed and the other has a planned and approved expansion for at least another 15 (probably 30) years.
Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

Have you got a source for that? Or is it something you remember? I’ve lived in Tuggeranong for 39 years now and never ever heard the mugga lane tip was going to close. I’ve heard of capacity of a tip site ending in 2015 and being extended but not the whole mugga lane tip. But hey lets not use facts, if we say something enough it will become a fact and people will believe it.

Lets for instance say we close that tip. Where in the ACT will you or say another political party build one? I’d love to hear a solution from the liberals rather than just saying we are not labor, so we’d fixed this problem. vote for us. Then the idiots who vote because they are upset vote for the other party, they don’t have a solution, and the cycle continues.

At least hold the Liberals who are sprouting themselves as a better alternative, to put the solutions on the board. It is an election year so I’m sure its not too early to start discussing solutions.

While ever people have this selfish me too attitude, politics in the city is just going to be about vote winning and not about making the city a great place. Why don’t Tuggeranong residents come up with what they need in the valley and put that forward to the Legislative assembly. I distinctly remember resident of other parts of Canberra complaining when all the spending was done in Tuggeranong as it was growing.

The ACT Government had the perfect opportunity to create a new tip when it began developing Molonglo. They probably still could find a place for one there. But the government is greedy and would rather get money for residential than plan a new public amenity.

This has to be the funniest post here.

The current tip is located in an industrial corridor many kilometres away from residential houses, yet you think it would have been better to open a new tip in an area that’s always been identified for residential development?
On land that is worth many billions of dollars, doesn’t suit this type of industrial use and isn’t physically separated from existing developments by natural topography of hills and ridge lines?

Hmmmm, the only public amenity I think you’re supporting is of the NIMBY kind.

HenryBG said :

I would also note that this methane would in the past have been subject to flaring and venting anyway, for safety reasons.

Surely it is safe to assume the methane plant would be mitigating any emissions, not exacerbating them?

On the assumption (by me) that the amount of methane to be “treated” will increase proportionally with the tips increased capacity, I do not know if or why the existing methane plant is not expanded, its capacity to treat the increased methane enhanced and/or more methane treatment plants put onto the tip site. If that has been done or planned as at least 1 mitigation strategy to reduce that terrible smell, then I’m sure that affected residents don’t know about it. How do we know that the methane isn’t just venting into the air – and when ?

If the methane is contributing to the smell, then I don’t know why anyone would “think it safe is safe to assume the methane plant would be mitigating any emissions, not exacerbating them”.

What the affected residents want to know is the cause(s) of the smell (which is clearly getting worse and more frequent), any potential impact on health and what is going to be done to fix it.

There is only arrogant and dismissive silence from the ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t and the TAMS minister. That is not acceptable. They must know – if they don’t know, then that’s an even bigger problem !

HenryBG said :

rommeldog56 said :

The implication of references to the methane plant as being/contributing to the smell is about whether that plant is operating properly. For instance, with the expansion of the Mugga Lane tip, I would expect that plant to have been expanded – or new ones constructed – to cope with the extra methane.

OK, it would seem that greater knowledge of what the methane plant actually achieves would be in order.

According to the Office of the Commissioner for Sustainability and the Environment, the methane plant “can reduces methane from the landfill by over 1,700 tonnes each year”
http://www.environmentcommissioner.act.gov.au/publications/soe/2007actreport/snapshots07/mugga

So far, so good. That 1,700 tonnes per year was always going to be there, regardless of whether a plant was built to consume it, or not.

What else could be going on?

According to the National Toxics Network,
http://www.ntn.org.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/NTN-Submission-to-air-pollution-inquiry-.pdf

“Gas Processing, which is required to remove impurities before natural gas can be used as a fuel, produces … hydrogen sulphide, … ”
“Flaring …..emissions include hydrogen sulfide, “

Also, presumably, the plant could be venting methane.

I can’t seem to find any reporting that quantifies the side-effects of these activities as are occurring at Mugga.

I would also note that this methane would in the past have been subject to flaring and venting anyway, for safety reasons.

Surely it is safe to assume the methane plant would be mitigating any emissions, not exacerbating them?

Firstly, methane is an odourless gas, so the chances of it in of itself being an odour problem is zero. And unless the plant is not working at all and they’ve installed a specific vent system that is discharging significant amounts of sulphides (just to annoy MacArthur residents), the chances of it being the source are almost near zero. There’s much bigger, more obvious sources.

watto23 said :

dungfungus said :

Mugga Lane and West Belconnen land fills were both going to close permanently in 2015.
Only one has closed and the other has a planned and approved expansion for at least another 15 (probably 30) years.
Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

Have you got a source for that? Or is it something you remember? I’ve lived in Tuggeranong for 39 years now and never ever heard the mugga lane tip was going to close. I’ve heard of capacity of a tip site ending in 2015 and being extended but not the whole mugga lane tip. But hey lets not use facts, if we say something enough it will become a fact and people will believe it.

Lets for instance say we close that tip. Where in the ACT will you or say another political party build one? I’d love to hear a solution from the liberals rather than just saying we are not labor, so we’d fixed this problem. vote for us. Then the idiots who vote because they are upset vote for the other party, they don’t have a solution, and the cycle continues.

At least hold the Liberals who are sprouting themselves as a better alternative, to put the solutions on the board. It is an election year so I’m sure its not too early to start discussing solutions.

While ever people have this selfish me too attitude, politics in the city is just going to be about vote winning and not about making the city a great place. Why don’t Tuggeranong residents come up with what they need in the valley and put that forward to the Legislative assembly. I distinctly remember resident of other parts of Canberra complaining when all the spending was done in Tuggeranong as it was growing.

The ACT Government had the perfect opportunity to create a new tip when it began developing Molonglo. They probably still could find a place for one there. But the government is greedy and would rather get money for residential than plan a new public amenity.

rosscoact, you are probably right. I am not angry with the citizens of Gunners per se, but with the pathetic, contrived ACT government policies that have forced people to reside in high density on the fringes due to the artificially high cost of new dwellings.
I guess some are happy in such accommodation – I didn’t mind a flat when I was single – but if they had a choice I would expect most families with children would prefer a proper house and backyard – if they could only afford it.

Labor/Greens were pretty quick to jump on the ban the fireplace bandwagon because the smoke never left the valley and built up.

I say the same thing is happening with the smell . They know where the smell is coming from but the gov won’t admit it. They can’t admit it.

Must be stirring up Labor feathers as Hargreaves is all defensive in here making snide, divisive remarks and blaming others for his parties incompetence .

very Labor/Greens

rommeldog56 said :

The implication of references to the methane plant as being/contributing to the smell is about whether that plant is operating properly. For instance, with the expansion of the Mugga Lane tip, I would expect that plant to have been expanded – or new ones constructed – to cope with the extra methane.

OK, it would seem that greater knowledge of what the methane plant actually achieves would be in order.

According to the Office of the Commissioner for Sustainability and the Environment, the methane plant “can reduces methane from the landfill by over 1,700 tonnes each year”
http://www.environmentcommissioner.act.gov.au/publications/soe/2007actreport/snapshots07/mugga

So far, so good. That 1,700 tonnes per year was always going to be there, regardless of whether a plant was built to consume it, or not.

What else could be going on?

According to the National Toxics Network,
http://www.ntn.org.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/NTN-Submission-to-air-pollution-inquiry-.pdf

“Gas Processing, which is required to remove impurities before natural gas can be used as a fuel, produces … hydrogen sulphide, … ”
“Flaring …..emissions include hydrogen sulfide, “

Also, presumably, the plant could be venting methane.

I can’t seem to find any reporting that quantifies the side-effects of these activities as are occurring at Mugga.

I would also note that this methane would in the past have been subject to flaring and venting anyway, for safety reasons.

Surely it is safe to assume the methane plant would be mitigating any emissions, not exacerbating them?

watto23 said :

dungfungus said :

Mugga Lane and West Belconnen land fills were both going to close permanently in 2015.
Only one has closed and the other has a planned and approved expansion for at least another 15 (probably 30) years.
Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

Have you got a source for that? Or is it something you remember? I’ve lived in Tuggeranong for 39 years now and never ever heard the mugga lane tip was going to close. I’ve heard of capacity of a tip site ending in 2015 and being extended but not the whole mugga lane tip. But hey lets not use facts, if we say something enough it will become a fact and people will believe it.

Lets for instance say we close that tip. Where in the ACT will you or say another political party build one? I’d love to hear a solution from the liberals rather than just saying we are not labor, so we’d fixed this problem. vote for us. Then the idiots who vote because they are upset vote for the other party, they don’t have a solution, and the cycle continues.

At least hold the Liberals who are sprouting themselves as a better alternative, to put the solutions on the board. It is an election year so I’m sure its not too early to start discussing solutions.

While ever people have this selfish me too attitude, politics in the city is just going to be about vote winning and not about making the city a great place. Why don’t Tuggeranong residents come up with what they need in the valley and put that forward to the Legislative assembly. I distinctly remember resident of other parts of Canberra complaining when all the spending was done in Tuggeranong as it was growing.

Watto23 says that he distinctly remember resident of other parts of Canberra complaining when all the spending was done in Tuggeranong as it was growing.

Those people you claim saying this, were not correct then and they wouldn’t be correct now. Tuggeranong has had far far less money spent on it then other parts of Canberra, just think of the most comparable region Belconnen.

Belconnen with the same population and built over a comparible time period, has basically all main roads as multiple lanes, a University, a big TAFE, a Hospital, a Sports stadium and sports precinct, a good lake and good facilities around it, etc , etc

Tuggeranong has only Drakeford drive as 3 lanes and tiny parts of Athllon and Erindale as dual lane. So many high use main roads such as Ashley, Sulwood, Issabella, Johnson & Tharwa drives are all single lane. Tuggeranong has terrible road infrastructure comapred to the rest on Canberra (which has very good road infrastructure).

Tuggeranong has no University, No Hospital, No TAFE yet…, a terrible terrible lake and surrounds, No real Tourist attractions and the public transport is limited, slow and links to Woden (not to the key hub of Civic like the rest of Canberra).

People on this site who argue that either Tuggeranong gets its fair share of spending or doesn’t deserve to get its fair share of spending are kidding themselves. They are happy to use the fifth of the Local and Federal taxes that Tuggeranong residents pay to subsidise their own areas, but not happy to allow Tuggeranong residents to have reasonable infrastructure and facilities for its residents.

If Watto23 has lived in Tuggeranong for 39 years, then he can only be in a part of Kambah that butts up against Woden or Weston Creek and obviously isn’t focusing on the issues further south in the region.

miz said :

Anyway, Tuggeranong will have the last laugh, having lovely large blocks of land that are still exceptionally good value at the moment. Woden used to be ‘the sticks’ and now it is highly desirable because of its large blocks. Tuggeranong is next, while Gunners is just going to become a horrid high density slum where people with no choice live (if it isn’t that already). Barr and Co will wish they had done more when they had the chance.

Miz, don’t hate Gungahlin because it’s not Tuggeranong. That’s not going to get Tuggeranong the spending it needs, it’s just going to alienate the people that you need support from.

dungfungus said :

Mugga Lane and West Belconnen land fills were both going to close permanently in 2015.
Only one has closed and the other has a planned and approved expansion for at least another 15 (probably 30) years.
Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

Have you got a source for that? Or is it something you remember? I’ve lived in Tuggeranong for 39 years now and never ever heard the mugga lane tip was going to close. I’ve heard of capacity of a tip site ending in 2015 and being extended but not the whole mugga lane tip. But hey lets not use facts, if we say something enough it will become a fact and people will believe it.

Lets for instance say we close that tip. Where in the ACT will you or say another political party build one? I’d love to hear a solution from the liberals rather than just saying we are not labor, so we’d fixed this problem. vote for us. Then the idiots who vote because they are upset vote for the other party, they don’t have a solution, and the cycle continues.

At least hold the Liberals who are sprouting themselves as a better alternative, to put the solutions on the board. It is an election year so I’m sure its not too early to start discussing solutions.

While ever people have this selfish me too attitude, politics in the city is just going to be about vote winning and not about making the city a great place. Why don’t Tuggeranong residents come up with what they need in the valley and put that forward to the Legislative assembly. I distinctly remember resident of other parts of Canberra complaining when all the spending was done in Tuggeranong as it was growing.

bj_ACT said :

JC said :

bj_ACT said :

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

So how has this supposed lack of funding made the lake (which is actually a storm water pollutant trap) and the dump smell? Where is the evidence inferred that Tuggeranong is getting less of a share of any maintenance money?

You want the evidence that Tuggeranong get’s less funding per head of population than other areas. Well fill your boots!

Tuggeranong has less money per head of population spent on road maintenance, road duplication & expansion, traffic lights etc. More public transport per head of population was cut from Tuggeranong in the last year than other areas. You are kidding yourself if you think the ACT government is putting as much or more funding into Tuggeranong than other areas per head of population. TAMS and Community Services have had jobs and roles moved from Tuggeranong to other parts of Canberra over the last decade. You might need to visit the Hyperdome/Lake or Kambah Village and see for yourself.

Check out the data here:
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2014-2015/maps/tuggeranong-and-surrounds
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2013-2014/maps/tuggeranong-and-surrounds
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget_2012-13/mapregion/tuggeranong

As for Tuggeranong Lake which even Blind Freddy could see is not having money spent on it to improve the water quality has been a known issue for ACT government for a decade and they have continually closed the lack instead of spending the big dollars required to fix it.
http://www.environment.act.gov.au/water/act-basin-priority-project/our-catchments/lake-tuggeranong-catchment

Disgraceful.
Unbelievable that money on ‘livability’ counted as spent on ‘Tuggeranong’ is in actual fact spends on things like the prison, a facility for the entire town which cannot honestly be said to contribute to the livability of Tuggeranong one iota. Yet they could not come up with a pissy $2 million to complete the last 100 metres of the Ashley Drive duplication.
They have no idea about Tuggeranong because the only govt MLAs who live in Tuggeranong are the gaffe-prone Joy Burch and light rail sycophant Mick Gentleman, neither of whom fight for their constituents to advocate for decent services and infrastructure.
The longer they neglect Tuggers and treat us like a dormitory suburb instead of a region that should have high quality city-wide facilities built here, the more they will have to spend later. Eg, let’s put the new stadium in Tuggeranong. It makes more sense than in Civic!
Anyway, Tuggeranong will have the last laugh, having lovely large blocks of land that are still exceptionally good value at the moment. Woden used to be ‘the sticks’ and now it is highly desirable because of its large blocks. Tuggeranong is next, while Gunners is just going to become a horrid high density slum where people with no choice live (if it isn’t that already). Barr and Co will wish they had done more when they had the chance.

This is a big-picture moment, good people. A time to reflect and ask ourselves, “What is it about Labor governments who, when faced with any practical problem, seem to dissolve into disarray?

First there’s an assessment, they hire consultants, put up a starting proposal, seek everyone’s view, modify the proposal, debate it, modify it again, delay it, review it, under-fund it, delay it again, publicly soul-search and finally try to divine the best solution (all things considered) from the contents of their collective belly-button.

It’s well-known that their own factional makeup is the chief impediment to their maintaining excellent and effective governments but they add to that the pressing need to be loved and appreciated by all. I’ve heard it referred to as the Bob Hawke Syndrome and most of them seem to display the symptoms from time to time.

Thus, we get tips that stink, lakes we can’t swim in, oxymoronic public transport systems and God-knows how much other faulty infrastructure all smothered in reports, procedures and cross-references bordering on the Byzantine.

You see, they’re far more concerned with the theory of it all: they’re just not very good at the practical – as has been demonstrated.

Perhaps we’d be better of giving this work to others who, despite clear shortcomings are, at least, pragmatic.

HenryBG said :

I also notice some people castigating the methane plant for causing the issue. This is seriously chuckle-worthy: the methane plant doesn’t *produce* methane, it burns it. More methane plants might mitigate the issue. Alternatively.

You are splitting straws – or methane ! The implication of references to the methane plant as being/contributing to the smell is about whether that plant is operating properly. For instance, with the expansion of the Mugga Lane tip, I would expect that plant to have been expanded – or new ones constructed – to cope with the extra methane.

chewy14 said :

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

No, you’re providing single data points at single locations at single times. .

The plural of “single data point” isn’t “single data points”, it is simply “data”.
(I don’t even know how to translate your oxymoronic “single times” into meaningful English).

My “data” are the result of observations extending back over many years.

My observations tell me that significant rainfall always causes stink for the obvious reason that groundwater will displace landfill gases.

The various articles calling this phenomenon a “mystery” or “recent problem” are mystefying: there is no mystery and there is nothing recent about it, it’s been happening for years.

They could obviously reduce the stink problem if they increased drainage, but if there’s one thing worse than a bit of stink, it would be allowing contaminated landfill groundwater out into the environment.

I also notice some people castigating the methane plant for causing the issue. This is seriously chuckle-worthy: the methane plant doesn’t *produce* methane, it burns it. More methane plants might mitigate the issue. Alternatively, perhaps they could plan for rainfall events by building a gas silo and pumping the excess methane into it for later use?

Sorry but I have to tell you that you’re mistaken. If you want to call your observations “data” then go ahead, but I specifically used the word “single” because they aren’t part of an organised monitoring or sampling program and don’t meet any required levels of frequency, accuracy or location.
They simply provide a single point where you smelt something of some description whilst driving past on a particular day. They are in effect meaningless when trying to determine the odour output, strength and offensiveness coming from the tip and whether it is a legitimate issue or not.
It’s like someone claiming that climate change isn’t real because they don’t feel hot on particular days.

If you want to read a bit more about it, you can look at the NSW framework for odour assessment and management:

https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/resources/air/20060440framework.pdf

That NSW EPA guideline, albeit 10 years old, made good reading.
If the ACT EPA used the guidelines in considering the DA t extend the Mugga Lane land fill life to 2030, this is where the issue was addressed insufficiently:

• Selecting an appropriate site and design layout:
? select the size and shape of the block to maintain an adequate ‘onsite buffer’ from surrounding land
uses
? determine whether there are local climatic or topographic conditions which could exacerbate odour
impacts
? establish the likelihood for cumulative impacts with other existing activities generating odour
? determine the compatibility with surrounding land uses and the risks that the surrounding land uses
will change in the short, medium or long term.

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

No, you’re providing single data points at single locations at single times. .

The plural of “single data point” isn’t “single data points”, it is simply “data”.
(I don’t even know how to translate your oxymoronic “single times” into meaningful English).

My “data” are the result of observations extending back over many years.

My observations tell me that significant rainfall always causes stink for the obvious reason that groundwater will displace landfill gases.

The various articles calling this phenomenon a “mystery” or “recent problem” are mystefying: there is no mystery and there is nothing recent about it, it’s been happening for years.

They could obviously reduce the stink problem if they increased drainage, but if there’s one thing worse than a bit of stink, it would be allowing contaminated landfill groundwater out into the environment.

I also notice some people castigating the methane plant for causing the issue. This is seriously chuckle-worthy: the methane plant doesn’t *produce* methane, it burns it. More methane plants might mitigate the issue. Alternatively, perhaps they could plan for rainfall events by building a gas silo and pumping the excess methane into it for later use?

Sorry but I have to tell you that you’re mistaken. If you want to call your observations “data” then go ahead, but I specifically used the word “single” because they aren’t part of an organised monitoring or sampling program and don’t meet any required levels of frequency, accuracy or location.
They simply provide a single point where you smelt something of some description whilst driving past on a particular day. They are in effect meaningless when trying to determine the odour output, strength and offensiveness coming from the tip and whether it is a legitimate issue or not.
It’s like someone claiming that climate change isn’t real because they don’t feel hot on particular days.

If you want to read a bit more about it, you can look at the NSW framework for odour assessment and management:

https://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/resources/air/20060440framework.pdf

JC said :

dungfungus said :

Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

It never closed. Closed to residential waste, but certainly not industrial waste including asbestos.

You are really hair-splitting there JC – industrial waste doesn’t produce odour (unless mixed with organic stuff). The formaldehyde in MDF certainly produces toxic non-odorous emissions though.
My spies tell me the asbestos is still being buried exclusively at Mugga Lane.

dungfungus said :

Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

It never closed. Closed to residential waste, but certainly not industrial waste including asbestos.

chewy14 said :

No, you’re providing single data points at single locations at single times. .

The plural of “single data point” isn’t “single data points”, it is simply “data”.
(I don’t even know how to translate your oxymoronic “single times” into meaningful English).

My “data” are the result of observations extending back over many years.

My observations tell me that significant rainfall always causes stink for the obvious reason that groundwater will displace landfill gases.

The various articles calling this phenomenon a “mystery” or “recent problem” are mystefying: there is no mystery and there is nothing recent about it, it’s been happening for years.

They could obviously reduce the stink problem if they increased drainage, but if there’s one thing worse than a bit of stink, it would be allowing contaminated landfill groundwater out into the environment.

I also notice some people castigating the methane plant for causing the issue. This is seriously chuckle-worthy: the methane plant doesn’t *produce* methane, it burns it. More methane plants might mitigate the issue. Alternatively, perhaps they could plan for rainfall events by building a gas silo and pumping the excess methane into it for later use?

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

.

I’m sorry, I drive past the tip on a regular basis, and the smell has been perfectly “usual” for years anytime after there has been a decent amount of rain, for the obvious reasons.

Well, I’m sure your in depth and detailed sampling analysis and investigation report can be found online right?

It’s not like smells change or get worse, “I’ve driven past it regularly”.

I am providing my long-term observation: there is no mystery about the source of the smell. Anytime there is a decent amount of rain, the gases are displaced by rising groundwater and the intensity and duration of the smell pretty well matches the extent of the rainfall event.

Maybe there would be less smell if we now had a nice big gas-fired power station next to the tip?

And maybe I would have more (or even, any) sympathy if the local NIMBYs had not been instrumental in having that project scotched?

No, you’re providing single data points at single locations at single times. Yes of course the tip has always had a variable odour output but the facts are, due to work at the site and the expansion of the tip it’s gotten worse. Whether that odour currently breaches air pollution guidelines is another matter and the government should release any investigation reports they’ve done.
It’s a completely different issue to reject expansion of an existing facility because it will break the law than it is to reject a new facility because of an overblown NIMBY scare campaign.

bj_ACT said :

JC said :

bj_ACT said :

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

So how has this supposed lack of funding made the lake (which is actually a storm water pollutant trap) and the dump smell? Where is the evidence inferred that Tuggeranong is getting less of a share of any maintenance money?

You want the evidence that Tuggeranong get’s less funding per head of population than other areas. Well fill your boots!

Tuggeranong has less money per head of population spent on road maintenance, road duplication & expansion, traffic lights etc. More public transport per head of population was cut from Tuggeranong in the last year than other areas. You are kidding yourself if you think the ACT government is putting as much or more funding into Tuggeranong than other areas per head of population. TAMS and Community Services have had jobs and roles moved from Tuggeranong to other parts of Canberra over the last decade. You might need to visit the Hyperdome/Lake or Kambah Village and see for yourself.

Check out the data here:
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2014-2015/maps/tuggeranong-and-surrounds
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2013-2014/maps/tuggeranong-and-surrounds
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget_2012-13/mapregion/tuggeranong

As for Tuggeranong Lake which even Blind Freddy could see is not having money spent on it to improve the water quality has been a known issue for ACT government for a decade and they have continually closed the lack instead of spending the big dollars required to fix it.
http://www.environment.act.gov.au/water/act-basin-priority-project/our-catchments/lake-tuggeranong-catchment

None of the links above is any clear evidence that Tuggeranong is getting less of a share of MAINTENANCE money. Capital works yes, but very good reason for that, but MAINTENANCE, nope.

As for the lake, again your document proves exactly what I am saying, it is a pollutant trap first and foremost. How do you propose they clean it up?

miz said :

And as has been pointed out above, the bad smells only started a few years ago. They should go back and work out what they did then that is now causing it.

See post 14 in this thread :

http://the-riotact.com/when-the-wind-blows-the-great-macarthur-pong/35187

Might be the methane plant @ Mugga Lane tip.?????

TAMS Media Team : What is it – please !!!!!

re comment #24,some complainants might be the same people; some may not – frankly, that’s irrelevant. Are you seriously suggesting that the government should not bother to take appropriate action because some of the people complaining about the smell now might have complained about something else five or 10 years ago?
No one, in any Canberra suburb, should have to put up with that smell. It is disgusting and something needs to be done about it pronto instead of all the dithering about we have been witnessing by government for some years now.

chewy14 said :

rommeldog56 said :

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-13/residents-near-mugga-way-tip-warned-to-expect-odour/5964924

How bad the odour is currently? Who knows, but it isn’t like this is a long term problem that the residents should put up with if it exceeds regulation limits. It only exists because of changes being made.

Yeah – right. Any time Tuggeranong residents raise this issue, it’s subject to comments like this – or “what do you expect living near a tip”, “suck it up”, “Nimbys”, etc.

The smell is now – its actually been going on for a long, long time. The link you posted talks about the smell lasting for a few weeks in December 2014 !

That was more than 12 months ago.

That’s the point I was making, the smell exists because of work at the tip and has existed for a while. They SAID it would only smell for a couple of weeks, doesn’t seem too accurate now does it?

It’s not the case of people moving in near a tip so they should know what they were getting, the tip is expanding.

Mugga Lane and West Belconnen land fills were both going to close permanently in 2015.
Only one has closed and the other has a planned and approved expansion for at least another 15 (probably 30) years.
Imagine the screams if West Belconnen was opened again, this being an election year.

rommeldog56 said :

bj_ACT said :

Yep that I can’t deny. It is ridiculous that people leave these huge Carp to rot on the side of the lake. Mind you if the two public rubbish bins by the Lake were not continually full of Maccas and KFC rubbish, then maybe they would dump them there.

I seem to recall reading or being told that it is actually illegal to return caught Carp to the lake ???

Another useless regulation that is never enforced – same as the one about picking up one’s doggy doo.

John Hargreaves said :

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed data centre being built near the Mugga Lane tip because the cooling towers would spoil their view? Are these the same residents who complained about the propose crematorium being proposed for the same site because the chimney stacks would spoil their view? the view being of the paddocks leading to the tip!

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed cemetery and crematorium because it would reduce their horse paddocks from 7 paddocks to five paddocks, even though Patterson’s Curse if rife and poisonous to horses. Their position was that the kangaroos (always a hazard on that road) could wander around the graves but their horses couldn’t.

Are these the same residents of the most expensive suburb in Tuggeranong who moved in long after the tip was created and never complained about it in the years I was in the Assembly? Perhaps they should consider whether they want to live there at all.

It’s not about the visual impact John (we can’t see the land fill or the other facilities that are proposed fin the same vicinity). Your comments about kangaroos and horses are rather puerile too.
The potential problem is the toxic fumes that these facilities can produce.
Unfortunately the EPA have never investigated the presence of wind currents in Tuggeranong and this is what concerns us most. The odours are worst when there are calm conditions and the inversion layer is low. We can smell the gases with the odour via the static air currents but we can’t detect the non-ordourous ones that come via the same air currents.
The toxicity of these gases will get worse as more flat pack furniture is buried at the Mugga Lane landfill – already we suffer from burning eyes and breathing difficulties. What happens if cancer clusters start – it’s possible they already have.
As I said earlier, the ACT (Labor) Government had previously announced that both the Mugga lane and West Belconnen land fills would close permanently in 2015 so there was more than an expectation that the occasional foul odour nuisance would cease forever.
It is the same expectation that the owners of the Mr Fluffy homes had after the asbestos was removed from their homes 20 years ago and looked what happened (at least they are being compensated).
The “close the tip” promise was another porky pie just like the NoWaste 2010 vision that Kate Carnell’s Liberals announced way back and Labor continued with until it was realised it was a turkey.
We have been complaining about the increasing frequencies of the smell for at least 5 years to Canberra Connect but EPA deny they have received the details. Note that EPA can’t be contacted directly – Canberra Connect (or whatever it is called now) conveniently filter all complaints for numerous agencies and directorates in the Territory.
It is only now out of frustration that we are petitioning local MLAs to do something about it.
Seeing as you are now interested, what would you have done when you were an MLA if you had received a complaint?

John Hargreaves said :

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed data centre being built near the Mugga Lane tip because the cooling towers would spoil their view? Are these the same residents who complained about the propose crematorium being proposed for the same site because the chimney stacks would spoil their view? the view being of the paddocks leading to the tip!

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed cemetery and crematorium because it would reduce their horse paddocks from 7 paddocks to five paddocks, even though Patterson’s Curse if rife and poisonous to horses. Their position was that the kangaroos (always a hazard on that road) could wander around the graves but their horses couldn’t.

Are these the same residents of the most expensive suburb in Tuggeranong who moved in long after the tip was created and never complained about it in the years I was in the Assembly? Perhaps they should consider whether they want to live there at all.

Wonder why you never expressed these types of thoughts when you were their member John?

Open and honest governance.

John Hargreaves said :

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed data centre being built near the Mugga Lane tip because the cooling towers would spoil their view? Are these the same residents who complained about the propose crematorium being proposed for the same site because the chimney stacks would spoil their view? the view being of the paddocks leading to the tip!

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed cemetery and crematorium because it would reduce their horse paddocks from 7 paddocks to five paddocks, even though Patterson’s Curse if rife and poisonous to horses.

Are these the same residents of the most expensive suburb in Tuggeranong who moved in long after the tip was created and never complained about it in the years I was in the Assembly?

“Is this the man who wrecked the buffet at the Harrow Club this morning?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9XWSeKdOuc

And as has been pointed out above, the bad smells only started a few years ago. They should go back and work out what they did then that is now causing it.

John, some complainants might be the same people; some may not – frankly, that’s irrelevant. Are you seriously suggesting that the government should not bother to take appropriate action because some of the people complaining about the smell now might have complained about something else five or 10 years ago?
No one, in any Canberra suburb, should have to put up with that smell. It is disgusting and something needs to be done about it pronto instead of all the dithering about we have been witnessing by government for some years now.

John Hargreaves said :

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed data centre being built near the Mugga Lane tip because the cooling towers would spoil their view? Are these the same residents who complained about the propose crematorium being proposed for the same site because the chimney stacks would spoil their view? the view being of the paddocks leading to the tip!

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed cemetery and crematorium because it would reduce their horse paddocks from 7 paddocks to five paddocks, even though Patterson’s Curse if rife and poisonous to horses. Their position was that the kangaroos (always a hazard on that road) could wander around the graves but their horses couldn’t.

Are these the same residents of the most expensive suburb in Tuggeranong who moved in long after the tip was created and never complained about it in the years I was in the Assembly? Perhaps they should consider whether they want to live there at all.

Well John. the ACT Labor Gov’t/MLAs disdain for Tuggeranong is becoming legendary – and confirmed by your comments above. So the newly consolidated & expanded tip, that (gas powered ?) data centre with its huge cooling towers a crematorium and a cemetery – all proposed in the same general location ? If that’s not disdain for the nearby residents, then what is ? Why don’t your ACT Labor mates share the pain of those proposed developments around Canberra more ?

Again – that smell from the Mugga Lane tip has become an increasing problem since ACT Labor/Greens decided to about triple its size (instead of relocate it further away from residences), dramatically extend its lifespan and close other tip(s) in Canberra so consolidate rubbish into Mugga Lane tip. The reason you may not have heard about the smell in your days as an MLA John, is that people probably didn’t complain about an occasional whiff. Now, that’s changed because of decisions by this ACT Labor/Greens ACT Gov’t.

Your comments, John Hargreaves ex MLA, are exactly why ACT Labor is so on the nose (pun intended) in Tuggeranong nowday’s. I’m sure Labor candidates like Mick Gentleman, and aspiring Labor MLAs, will appreciate your comments !

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed data centre being built near the Mugga Lane tip because the cooling towers would spoil their view? Are these the same residents who complained about the propose crematorium being proposed for the same site because the chimney stacks would spoil their view? the view being of the paddocks leading to the tip!

Are these the same residents who complained about the proposed cemetery and crematorium because it would reduce their horse paddocks from 7 paddocks to five paddocks, even though Patterson’s Curse if rife and poisonous to horses. Their position was that the kangaroos (always a hazard on that road) could wander around the graves but their horses couldn’t.

Are these the same residents of the most expensive suburb in Tuggeranong who moved in long after the tip was created and never complained about it in the years I was in the Assembly? Perhaps they should consider whether they want to live there at all.

chewy14 said :

http://www.environment.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/714599/Sullivans-Creek-Inner-North-Reticulation-Network.pdf

I’m sure they’re just about to start on a similar project of ponds for the Lake Tuggeranong catchment any day now. Isn’t it wonderful that those inner north residents had their environment (and property price) boosted by this evaluation “trial”.

Ive just done a bit of digging on-line and saw there was millions of dollars in Federal Funds from 2008 to help fix Lake Tuggeranong by building Kambah and Wanniassa Stormwater reticulation. In 2011 Andrew Barr Re-directed most of the funds to the Dickson and Lyneham Wetlands and to convert Hawker enclosed oval to Synthetic grass.

The ACT Government provided $14 million to create the Dickson and Lyneham wetlands (which I must say are very nice) but I can’t believe they canned the Tuggernong project that would help solve the decade long polution issues for Lake Tuggeranong.

Some very interesting reading from the proposed project and the changes at:
https://www.environment.gov.au/system/files/pages/06c91f9e-49ba-4862-ae64-a3fb9cd98be7/files/canberra-integrated-urban-waterways-project-final-report.pdf

http://www.cmd.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/340399/Documents_-_Termination_of_Part_B_Stage_1.pdf

You will see on page 20 of the waterways report that the ACT government had already cut $7 million from the Tuggeraong Grant in 2008 without touching the other projects and topped it off by basically using the left over money for Dickson/Lyneham in 2012.

How did this not create a storm???

pajs said :

I reckon the solution, which I’m sure Dungers will approve, is a massive battery of giant fans to blow the Tuggers odour out past Tharwa. Mix in some wind turbines to power the lot. Bit of well-needed scenery for valley, a solution for the smell and no impact on climate change. Wins in all directions (except south, maybe).

Well, that sure beats any solution that the ACT Government has put forward so far.

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

While the ACT Government are in denial that the smell is coming from the Mugga Lane Land Fill, buried in the IES supporting the DA to extend the life (and smell) of the land fill for another 30 years is this revealing “goal” under the heading:
21.1 Summary of Draft Environmental Management Commitments.
Specifically Ref 36 on page 233:
“Reduce odorous and non-odorous gasses from landfill during operation, closure and post closure reducing the amenity of sensitive receivers.”
The landfill extension DA can be found at the following ACTPLA link:
http://www.planning.act.gov.au/topics/your_say/comment/pubnote?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZhcHBzLmFjdHBsYS5hY3QuZ292LmF1JTJGcHVibm90ZSUyRnB1Ym5vdGVEZXRhaWxfbmV3LmFzcCUzRkRBX25vJTNEMjAxNTI4NTA5JmFsbD0x
It’s interesting to note that the IES was prepared over 12 months ago so this is irrefutable proof that there always has been existing odour and non-odorous gases problem otherwise they would have used the word “manage”.
Also, any Tuggeranong residents (quaintly referred to as “sensitive receivers”) who regularly cop the odour are also copping the nasty things (non-odorous gasses) that can’t be detected by their smell.
You can make your own enquiries as to what these may be.

What smell? I can’t see it.

I have this 120 year old book that you can’t look at, and I’m not explaining, that demonstrates that this is all natural.

About as natural as disposable nappies. I wish I knew where you lived.

chewy14 said :

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

.

I’m sorry, I drive past the tip on a regular basis, and the smell has been perfectly “usual” for years anytime after there has been a decent amount of rain, for the obvious reasons.

Well, I’m sure your in depth and detailed sampling analysis and investigation report can be found online right?

It’s not like smells change or get worse, “I’ve driven past it regularly”.

I am providing my long-term observation: there is no mystery about the source of the smell. Anytime there is a decent amount of rain, the gases are displaced by rising groundwater and the intensity and duration of the smell pretty well matches the extent of the rainfall event.

Maybe there would be less smell if we now had a nice big gas-fired power station next to the tip?

And maybe I would have more (or even, any) sympathy if the local NIMBYs had not been instrumental in having that project scotched?

bj_ACT said :

Yep that I can’t deny. It is ridiculous that people leave these huge Carp to rot on the side of the lake. Mind you if the two public rubbish bins by the Lake were not continually full of Maccas and KFC rubbish, then maybe they would dump them there.

I seem to recall reading or being told that it is actually illegal to return caught Carp to the lake ???

JC said :

bj_ACT said :

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

So how has this supposed lack of funding made the lake (which is actually a storm water pollutant trap) and the dump smell? Where is the evidence inferred that Tuggeranong is getting less of a share of any maintenance money?

http://www.environment.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/714599/Sullivans-Creek-Inner-North-Reticulation-Network.pdf

I’m sure they’re just about to start on a similar project of ponds for the Lake Tuggeranong catchment any day now. Isn’t it wonderful that those inner north residents had their environment (and property price) boosted by this evaluation “trial”.

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

.

I’m sorry, I drive past the tip on a regular basis, and the smell has been perfectly “usual” for years anytime after there has been a decent amount of rain, for the obvious reasons.

Well, I’m sure your in depth and detailed sampling analysis and investigation report can be found online right?

It’s not like smells change or get worse, “I’ve driven past it regularly”.

churl said :

bj_ACT said :

I think the smell from the Garbage Tip is to counter balance the smell from Lake Tuggeranong.
I was near Lake Tuggeranong the other day and it smelt like I was back in Mumbai (even the Carp had topped themselves or maybe they were just having a relaxing float on top of the water).

Yep, bad (local) lake smells in summer are often due to fisherfolk leaving dead carp around (or live carp to die on the bank…)

Yep that I can’t deny. It is ridiculous that people leave these huge Carp to rot on the side of the lake. Mind you if the two public rubbish bins by the Lake were not continually full of Maccas and KFC rubbish, then maybe they would dump them there.

P.S. Beware if your Fillet of Fish is half the usual price and has a slight Lake Tuggeranong smell.

JC said :

bj_ACT said :

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

So how has this supposed lack of funding made the lake (which is actually a storm water pollutant trap) and the dump smell? Where is the evidence inferred that Tuggeranong is getting less of a share of any maintenance money?

You want the evidence that Tuggeranong get’s less funding per head of population than other areas. Well fill your boots!

Tuggeranong has less money per head of population spent on road maintenance, road duplication & expansion, traffic lights etc. More public transport per head of population was cut from Tuggeranong in the last year than other areas. You are kidding yourself if you think the ACT government is putting as much or more funding into Tuggeranong than other areas per head of population. TAMS and Community Services have had jobs and roles moved from Tuggeranong to other parts of Canberra over the last decade. You might need to visit the Hyperdome/Lake or Kambah Village and see for yourself.

Check out the data here:
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2014-2015/maps/tuggeranong-and-surrounds
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2013-2014/maps/tuggeranong-and-surrounds
http://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget_2012-13/mapregion/tuggeranong

As for Tuggeranong Lake which even Blind Freddy could see is not having money spent on it to improve the water quality has been a known issue for ACT government for a decade and they have continually closed the lack instead of spending the big dollars required to fix it.
http://www.environment.act.gov.au/water/act-basin-priority-project/our-catchments/lake-tuggeranong-catchment

watto23 said :

I’m glad Ms Lawder has sorted it out. Now about my smell problem in Tuggeranong that is unrelated to the tip. there are some kind of sewerage pipes that with the right wind stink my place out. so hopefully she fixes that issue too, Maybe its not political enough for her…. Love to know what she is going to do about the tip. Share the tip around? The tip was there before Fadden and Macarthur residents moved in.

In your attempt to dismiss the concerns of smell affected residents, you neglict to acknowledge that its become a real issue since the tip was expanded more recently. This issue that has been discussed on RA before and regretfully, also the same lack of empathy or understanding. See post 10 for context of someone who has lived in that vicinity since 2000. It’s clearly worsening. Where is the TAMS Media Team – who sometimes post on RA – in all this. Please explain !

HenryBG said :

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

.

I’m sorry, I drive past the tip on a regular basis, and the smell has been perfectly “usual” for years anytime after there has been a decent amount of rain, for the obvious reasons.

Driving past is not living with the smell in the effected areas.

bj_ACT said :

I think the smell from the Garbage Tip is to counter balance the smell from Lake Tuggeranong.
I was near Lake Tuggeranong the other day and it smelt like I was back in Mumbai (even the Carp had topped themselves or maybe they were just having a relaxing float on top of the water).

Yep, bad (local) lake smells in summer are often due to fisherfolk leaving dead carp around (or live carp to die on the bank…)

watto23 said :

I’m glad Ms Lawder has sorted it out. Now about my smell problem in Tuggeranong that is unrelated to the tip. there are some kind of sewerage pipes that with the right wind stink my place out. so hopefully she fixes that issue too, Maybe its not political enough for her…. Love to know what she is going to do about the tip. Share the tip around? The tip was there before Fadden and Macarthur residents moved in.

With respect, the lives of the Mugga Lane and West Belconnen Land Fills were planned to end in 2015.
The current government had a number of options to deal with Canberra’s (and Queanbeyan’s) burgeoning waste disposal including transporting Canberra’s waste to the Woodlawn Bio-reactor at Tarago (an option no longer available) but they arranged the cheapest solution by acquiring land abutting the existing landfill (how much did they pay for it?) stating some motherhood reason like “Canberra would deal with its own waste”.
They engaged a PR firm to do a survey in to the ramifications of extending the life of the Mugga Lane
land fill but residents in the most odour-exposed suburbs were not contacted directly and never had an opportunity to voice opinions.
The Tuggeranong Community Council, who in reality only represent the interests of the south and south west suburbs of Tuggeranong, were engaged directly in the survey but interestingly the same organisation were not given any details of the Development Application that was lodged in November 2015 (the one with an IES identifying the odour as a problem) that was signed off by Minister Corbell two years earlier.
The survey was a sham but delivered the right result to the government. If that is not political expediency at work the I don’t know what is.
There has been a series of bungling and bad management at the Mugga Lane Land Fill which residents of the northern suburbs of Tuggeranong were looking forward to ending last year.
Unfortunately, we have to endure them for another 30 years – I won’t be around then..

dungfungus said :

While the ACT Government are in denial that the smell is coming from the Mugga Lane Land Fill, buried in the IES supporting the DA to extend the life (and smell) of the land fill for another 30 years is this revealing “goal” under the heading:
21.1 Summary of Draft Environmental Management Commitments.
Specifically Ref 36 on page 233:
“Reduce odorous and non-odorous gasses from landfill during operation, closure and post closure reducing the amenity of sensitive receivers.”
The landfill extension DA can be found at the following ACTPLA link:
http://www.planning.act.gov.au/topics/your_say/comment/pubnote?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZhcHBzLmFjdHBsYS5hY3QuZ292LmF1JTJGcHVibm90ZSUyRnB1Ym5vdGVEZXRhaWxfbmV3LmFzcCUzRkRBX25vJTNEMjAxNTI4NTA5JmFsbD0x
It’s interesting to note that the IES was prepared over 12 months ago so this is irrefutable proof that there always has been existing odour and non-odorous gases problem otherwise they would have used the word “manage”.
Also, any Tuggeranong residents (quaintly referred to as “sensitive receivers”) who regularly cop the odour are also copping the nasty things (non-odorous gasses) that can’t be detected by their smell.
You can make your own enquiries as to what these may be.

What smell? I can’t see it.

I have this 120 year old book that you can’t look at, and I’m not explaining, that demonstrates that this is all natural.

The sad thing is in the short time we have built up Canberra that we have trashed it so thoroughly.

One of the first things I asked the Green’s candidates, who you would think have given this some thought, was what investigations and proposals have been made to clean up all our waterways and introduce some viable ecosystem to the unnatural standing pools we have created.

Flippantly I recommended introducing gharials and Ganges and Yangtze dolphins to clean up the carp.

Not as crazy as it sounds, having made artificial waterways we should have given just as much thought to what lives in them and how best to manage them than to stand back and look at them from a safe distance so as to not get the full effect of close contact.

bj_ACT said :

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

So how has this supposed lack of funding made the lake (which is actually a storm water pollutant trap) and the dump smell? Where is the evidence inferred that Tuggeranong is getting less of a share of any maintenance money?

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

.

I’m sorry, I drive past the tip on a regular basis, and the smell has been perfectly “usual” for years anytime after there has been a decent amount of rain, for the obvious reasons.

bj_ACT said :

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

The smell only began a few years ago – around 2012-ish. I have lived here in Chisholm – far enough away that I should not be affected – since 2000, and before that I lived even closer, in Gilmore. There was never any problem until a few years ago, around 2012-ish In think. I now get a whiff from time to time, particularly in the early mornings when the breeze is from the east. It is not just a compost smell, but far worse. I am an avid gardener and know what compost smells like. No, something is very wrong.
You can smell it when you drive past on the Monaro Hwy, in a vehicle with the windows closed (e.g. one of the new buses), and you never used to be able to do that, either.

While the ACT Government are in denial that the smell is coming from the Mugga Lane Land Fill, buried in the IES supporting the DA to extend the life (and smell) of the land fill for another 30 years is this revealing “goal” under the heading:
21.1 Summary of Draft Environmental Management Commitments.
Specifically Ref 36 on page 233:
“Reduce odorous and non-odorous gasses from landfill during operation, closure and post closure reducing the amenity of sensitive receivers.”
The landfill extension DA can be found at the following ACTPLA link:
http://www.planning.act.gov.au/topics/your_say/comment/pubnote?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZhcHBzLmFjdHBsYS5hY3QuZ292LmF1JTJGcHVibm90ZSUyRnB1Ym5vdGVEZXRhaWxfbmV3LmFzcCUzRkRBX25vJTNEMjAxNTI4NTA5JmFsbD0x
It’s interesting to note that the IES was prepared over 12 months ago so this is irrefutable proof that there always has been existing odour and non-odorous gases problem otherwise they would have used the word “manage”.
Also, any Tuggeranong residents (quaintly referred to as “sensitive receivers”) who regularly cop the odour are also copping the nasty things (non-odorous gasses) that can’t be detected by their smell.
You can make your own enquiries as to what these may be.

I reckon the solution, which I’m sure Dungers will approve, is a massive battery of giant fans to blow the Tuggers odour out past Tharwa. Mix in some wind turbines to power the lot. Bit of well-needed scenery for valley, a solution for the smell and no impact on climate change. Wins in all directions (except south, maybe).

rommeldog56 said :

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-13/residents-near-mugga-way-tip-warned-to-expect-odour/5964924

How bad the odour is currently? Who knows, but it isn’t like this is a long term problem that the residents should put up with if it exceeds regulation limits. It only exists because of changes being made.

Yeah – right. Any time Tuggeranong residents raise this issue, it’s subject to comments like this – or “what do you expect living near a tip”, “suck it up”, “Nimbys”, etc.

The smell is now – its actually been going on for a long, long time. The link you posted talks about the smell lasting for a few weeks in December 2014 !

That was more than 12 months ago.

That’s the point I was making, the smell exists because of work at the tip and has existed for a while. They SAID it would only smell for a couple of weeks, doesn’t seem too accurate now does it?

It’s not the case of people moving in near a tip so they should know what they were getting, the tip is expanding.

I’m glad Ms Lawder has sorted it out. Now about my smell problem in Tuggeranong that is unrelated to the tip. there are some kind of sewerage pipes that with the right wind stink my place out. so hopefully she fixes that issue too, Maybe its not political enough for her…. Love to know what she is going to do about the tip. Share the tip around? The tip was there before Fadden and Macarthur residents moved in.

I think the smell from the Garbage Tip is to counter balance the smell from Lake Tuggeranong.

I was near Lake Tuggeranong the other day and it smelt like I was back in Mumbai (even the Carp had topped themselves or maybe they were just having a relaxing float on top of the water).

I know that some Labor MLA’s have admitted that they focusing on the North because that is where ACT elections are won or lost, but the lack of funding into Tuggeranong over the last decade for basic maintenance and community services has become a joke.

chewy14 said :

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-13/residents-near-mugga-way-tip-warned-to-expect-odour/5964924

How bad the odour is currently? Who knows, but it isn’t like this is a long term problem that the residents should put up with if it exceeds regulation limits. It only exists because of changes being made.

Yeah – right. Any time Tuggeranong residents raise this issue, it’s subject to comments like this – or “what do you expect living near a tip”, “suck it up”, “Nimbys”, etc.

The smell is now – its actually been going on for a long, long time. The link you posted talks about the smell lasting for a few weeks in December 2014 ! That was more than 12 months ago.

HenryBG said :

“She said the reports had come from a range of locations, particularly in Fadden and Macarthur,”

Let’s be specific, how many complaints have *not* come from Macarthur or Fadden? People living in these suburbs know very well that anything remotely northerly blows tip smells into their suburb – are they keen to lower their property values by advertising this fact?

Also, as this happens every time there is significant rain (as there was last week), why would anybody in either of these two suburbs be complaining at what is a usual event?

It’s only “usual” over the last year or so because of work that has been going on from the expansion of the tip.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-13/residents-near-mugga-way-tip-warned-to-expect-odour/5964924

How bad the odour is currently? Who knows, but it isn’t like this is a long term problem that the residents should put up with if it exceeds regulation limits. It only exists because of changes being made.

“She said the reports had come from a range of locations, particularly in Fadden and Macarthur,”

Let’s be specific, how many complaints have *not* come from Macarthur or Fadden? People living in these suburbs know very well that anything remotely northerly blows tip smells into their suburb – are they keen to lower their property values by advertising this fact?

Also, as this happens every time there is significant rain (as there was last week), why would anybody in either of these two suburbs be complaining at what is a usual event?

The number of empty ACTION buses coming into Tuggers needs to be doubled so more fresh air can be imported and released.