26 November 2024

The people haven’t spoken: electoral systems decide our governments, not voters

| Oliver Jacques
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mum and daughter voting at election

Voting in elections doesn’t matter as much as you think. Photo: Oliver Jacques.

The United States embraced Donald Trump, the ACT always votes Labor and Queenslanders flocked towards the conservatives.

There’s one thing the simplistic analysis of recent poll results ignores – electoral systems have more say on who forms government than voters.

You can’t say ‘the people have spoken’ after an election because of one simple truth. If you change the method of voting, you often change the outcome.

Take Australia’s 2022 federal election. It was widely reported as a rejection of the unpopular Morrison Government and an endorsement of Anthony Albanese’s opposition.

But Labor only received 32.58 per cent of the primary vote. More than two-thirds of Australians voted for someone else. If our country had the same voting system as the UK, the Coalition would have retained power.

Great Britain uses a first past the post system, where the candidate with the most votes in each seat wins. You only vote for the one person and you don’t give second and third preferences to other candidates, as you do here.

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In most seats that Labor gained from the Liberals in 2022, they finished second but won thanks to preferences from the Greens and other minor parties. Hence, they benefited from the preferential system.

If federal elections were decided by proportional representational, as is the case for ACT local government polls, Labor would have fallen well short of a majority. In this system, the number of seats you gain is in line with your votes. One of the major parties would have needed to form a coalition with minor parties and/or independents to form government.

Hence, three different electoral systems would have produced three different federal election results.

Results of the recent ACT poll were also influenced by the way votes are counted.

ACT Labor had a swing against it of almost four per cent. If that had happened federally, it would’ve been seen as a substantial rebuke against the party. But they didn’t lose a single seat in Canberra because the Hare Clark system pretty much guarantees them two seats in each electorate – had their vote slid 8 per cent, the party may not have gone backwards.

At NSW council elections, we have both preferences and group ticket voting, where councillors can band together to pool votes. In Griffith Council, for example, candidates edged out others with much higher vote tallies because of the group with whom they chose to align. Once again, voters made their choice at the ballot box before the system took over to decide who was elected to council.

There are many other systemic features of elections that skew results. This includes whether voting is compulsory, as it is in Australia, or voluntary, like in the United States and most other countries.

The United States Midwest Political Science Association has argued that making voting mandatory benefits left-wing parties because the poor and less educated who would support these parties are less likely to vote if they’re not compelled to do so. There are times when only half the voting-age population exercise their right to vote in American elections, meaning the president can be elected by just a quarter of all adult citizens.

American journalist Jacob Soboroff also made the case that having a weekday election (on a Tuesday) in the United States impacts the results – as less well-off people are less likely to be able to take time off work to cast their ballot.

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Some elements of the Democratic Party are also critical of America’s electoral college system, where every state is given a certain number of votes to elect a president based on their population. This means you can get thrashed in the big states and win a lot of small states narrowly, you can become president while losing the overall vote tally in the country – as Donald Trump did in 2016.

Trump’s win eight years ago led to a left-wing push for the Electoral College to be replaced by a simple nationwide popular vote result, which would have made Hillary Clinton the leader of the free world in that year.

Her supporters realised what everyone needs to know – who you vote for doesn’t matter as much as the system that determines which people vote, when they vote and how their vote is counted.

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I support preferential voting, but I’m not sure it works quite as well in our 5 member per electorate hare clarke system where as soon as your first preference votes get a quota, your vote resets and gets counted again for the next person in your list.

That’s not a good explanation of how it works. If your 1st preference candidate gets a quota on 1st preferences, your vote goes to your 2nd preference candidate at a reduced value. E.g., if someone gets 1.2 quotas on 1st preferences the extra 0.2 quotas gets distributed. To work out how, they look at the 2nd preference candidate on each ballot and give those candidates 1/6th of a vote each (0.2/1.2 = 1/6th).

If your 1st preference candidate doesn’t get a quota on 1st preferences, but reaches it later with preferences from other candidates, your vote stays with your 1st preference and goes nowhere.

“Trump’s win eight years ago led to a left-wing push for the Electoral College to be replaced by a simple nationwide popular vote result…”
Trump clearly won the popular vote in 2024 and the vast majority of states, so abolishing the electoral college system would have made no difference to the result.
Proposals to amend an electoral system to advantage, or disadvantage, any candidate or party should be rejected. But I confess to not fully understanding or being fully confident in Hare-Clarke complexities, machinations, outcomes and counting delays.

Well, well, well. Doesn’t this admission put a damper on certain peoples claims that every ACT voter has a deep understanding of Hare-Clark….

The electoral system is not the issue. The vast majority of voters for one reason or another don’t use the full power of their vote. Although we are starting to see the first preferences for the majopr parties drop election after election so more are weilding that power. First past the post just ingraions the two major parties and by far the less democratic. Of course if you were a liberal voter in Canberra you might prefer it, but still highly unlikely to win an election here with any system, unless they adapt policies to Canberras population, rather than try and convert us to religious fundamentalists.

First Past the Post is not a good system. Once people are given examples of the different systems and scenarios, it becomes obvious to most that preferential voting is the way to go (see example given by Nick). If we didn’t have preferential voting it would be very difficult to have anyone other than the major parties voted in in every seat. Independents and small parties are a check on the major parties to hopefully prevent them running rough shot over everything.

We should not be comparing ourselves to the system in the USA. The non-compulsory nature of the system, the fact that many people need to take time off work to vote (and large numbers can’t afford to do so), the gerrymandering that is in place, the College System, the scaremongering about the system being rigged, the different rules in every state, etc, etc mean that it is far from fair, and unlikely to be representative of the people. The so-called ‘greatest democracy in the world’ is far from it.

Those who are advocating a first-past-the-post should be careful of the potential outcome – as per this report from UK council election in 2017:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-39818052

Your democracy in action … decided by drawing straws or tossing a coin!

Yes, voting for a candidate and not having your vote go anywhere else is truly dangerous….

It is actually when there’s a reasonable compromise candidate, and the alternative is unfit for office. Wrong again Komrade Ken.

Incorrect as usual, cooker seano.
If I wanted to give my vote to a compromise candidate, I would have voted for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the person who gets the most votes winning, and not passing on votes to other people.

@Ken M
… and let’s not forget, you might have to actually put some thought into casting your vote, if you had to preference subsequent candidates. Wouldn’t want to stretch beyond your capabilities.

I number every box below the line, JS. The issue is that the majority here still vote above the line, and many pay zero attention to where their preferences go. No such issue exists with fptp. It leaves no room for sneaky preference deals and taking advantage of you ignorant people.

Actually correct as usual Ken. You not understanding stuff is typical but it doesn’t make those things wrong.

Who you vote for is irrelevant, we can safely assume you’ll vote for the unfit person because your opinions are rusted on and not evidence-based.

It’s the vast majority of the rest of us who are voting for a compromise candidate to keep the unfit, unworthy, unrepresentative and unreasonable out of office.

That’s democracy. The many making the decisions, not the few.

@Ken M
“the majority here still vote above the line, and many pay zero attention to where their preferences go”
That only applies in the Senate at the federal election – surely you know by now, ACT does not have above-the-line pre-determined preference allocation.

“It leaves no room for sneaky preference deals and taking advantage of you ignorant people.”
And who are “you ignorant people”? I would have thought it would have been obvious to any rational thinking person, and even you, from my previous comments on preference distribution in the ACT election, that I numbered every box when casting my vote.

As for fptp system … how is a tie decided democratically?

I was talking about yhe federal level.

And when was the last time there was an actual tie?

@Ken M
Australia has had preferential voting for over 100 years – since its introduction federally in 1918. There probably wasn’t a tie in any HoR/Senate FPTP vote in the 16 years from 1902 until then.

However, as per the 2017 UK FPTP Council election I referenced above, a tie can happen. When it did, the tied candidates drew straws to decide the winner.

Is that how you want to determine the result in a democratic election?

No, I’d prefer they decided the victor by mortal combat.

Actually it is not true to say the United States embraced Trump. He actually got less than 50% of the valid votes (and even less of those eligible to vote). He got more than anyone else, as well as winning the electoral college system, so that gives him the right to claim the Presidency, but it is not the ringing endorsement he is claiming.

A very shallow analysis. Preferential voting is the fairest as voters get to choose where their preferences go, if they don’t do this then more fool them! Election systems should always be designed to deliver an outcome the majority want.

Using the 2022 election as the example again, left-leaning voters select left-leaning candidates thus 64% of voters didn’t vote for Morrison, he’s out and a left-leaning government is in.

You could have a first past the post system that saw 11 candidates stand, all bar one of them left-leaning. If the 10 lefties got 9% each and the right-leaning candidate gets 11% they’d be elected – how is this a majority outcome? It isn’t.

Kevin Bonham2:09 pm 28 Nov 24

As commenters have noted it is incorrect to say FPP would have produced a Coalition win in 2022 because voters would have voted differently. But even if they didn’t, the Coalition would only have won 73 seats with at best a fragile minority government depending on Helen Haines or Zali Steggall. Most likely FPP would have produced a minority Labor government – so much for claims that FPP avoids minority government.

First past the post is the go. When we get sick of them, we will vote them out. Voting in minor parties and independents throws up minority government so then governments make decisions on getting votes for what they want. Having a minority in the Senate means cutting deals to govern. Power in the hands of people who got a minuscule number of votes.

Peter Graves2:11 pm 28 Nov 24

If you favour first past the post, you are highly likely to end up with a “government” for which the national majority of voters did NOT vote. Consequently a “government” not reflecting nor acting in the interests of most of the Australian people.

See my comments about 3 or more candidates and the winner possibly being “elected” by a minority (say34%) of whom 64% did NOT want.

No, it’s not.

FPTP is the way to unrepresentative government which results in the many being subject to the worst instincts and ideas of the few.

Which is why so many extremists love the idea of it.

Voting? Yeah nah. Try something better like Sortician and Citizens’ Assemblies.

At the time of writing this comment, 42% of poll respondents are displaying their profound ignorance by believing that First Past the Post produces the fairest results (Which of the other three is fairest is a matter of legitimate debate). The shallow analysis found in this article is not helping matters either. As some of the commentors have already noted, the election system influences how people vote (not everyone of course, but enough to make the article’s main argument highly questionable). I routinely vote for minor parties and independents but would be far less likely to do so if we had FPTP. The effects of compulsory voting are also far from obvious and predictable, although they can influence the final result.

100%

Most people I know have some sort of voting strategy.

I have for years now been voting for sensible independents first, whichever of the main candidates I prefer in order from best to worst, climate change deniers second last and bigots, fascists, racists and loons last.

Richard Jones11:15 am 28 Nov 24

This article complains about simplistic analysis, and then uses simplistic analysis to justify its position.
In FPTP voting, people would vote differently, so it is wrong to use 1st preferences as a proxy for a FPTP outcome.

What a dumb take. If the 2022 election had been run in FPP people would have voted differently. People vote tactically in every first past the post election, lessening the need to do that is one of the advantages of our preferential system.

Richard Jones11:28 am 28 Nov 24

Absolutely. It’s very simplistic to assume you can count 1st preferences to work out who would have won if the system was FPTP – especially in multi member electorates like the Senate, ACT or Tas.
Instant run-off, aka preferential, aka ranked choice is by far the fairest.
Single member v multi-member (not to mention their size) electorates is another issue.

This article is a pretty poor and simplistic attempt at political science.

I could no agree more, democracy is broken in most western countries. The election process is an illusion, a Selection rather than an Election. I grew up in South Africa where we had a 1 party 1 vote system. This system where we go 2nd choice, 3rd choice etc is what breaks the system, I usually only have 1 choice and I normally throw my 2nd and third choices at a candidate that has no chance of winning such as the Cannabis Party just so the party I don’t like does not get it in their tally.

In my time in Australia I have grown to have grown to hate elections because I know the stupid irrelevant finger pointing advertising will start “It won’t be easy under Albanese” or “You are just mutton in the eyes of Dutton”, it won’t be easy under any career politician, we are all just meat to them as they feather their careers. I wish the AEC would put a rule in place prohibiting this finger pointing advertising and make them actually tell us what their policies are.

Richard Jones11:19 am 28 Nov 24

The AEC & state/territory equivalents just administer the rules and processes in the relevant electoral act. The AEC has no ability to change those rules, only the relevant Parliament can. Independents want those advertising rules changed, but the majors don’t seem to want to change

Peter Graves8:13 am 28 Nov 24

We do not need a first-past-the post system. It is true that
“Great Britain uses a first past the post system, where the candidate with the most votes in each seat wins. You only vote for the one person and you don’t give second and third preferences to other candidates, as you do here.”

But it is also true that – where there are more than three (UK) candidates (common in the UK), then the successful one only needs 33.3% (say “34%”) to be elected. Meaning that 67% of the electors did NOT want that “successful” candidate. Also potentially leading to a Government not wanted by most of the national electors.

Anyone that things FPTP is a good system has rocks in their heads.

“You can’t say ‘the people have spoken’ after an election because of one simple truth. If you change the method of voting, you often change the outcome.”

This assumes that people don’t understand the system they’re voting in and don’t then voting according to that system which is nonsense.

Please provide evidence that everybody voting in the ACT understands how the Hare-Clark electoral system works, otherwise you are just making up nonsense.

Two independents were elected but the Liberals did not win any more seats than at the last election. People wanted change, but they still rejected the ACT Liberals. Thanks for playing.

That’s not evidence that all, or even most voters, actually understand how the Hare-Clark system works in its entirety. Thanks for playing.

Comments on this very website prior to the ACT election, talking about preference flows pretty clearly display that people don’t really understand it, and that you are wrong. Again.

It actually is champ. Your cooked opinion on some comments on this site is irrelevant.

Two seats changed hands, independents picked up a significant percentage of the vote, yet when it came to preference flows they did not go to the Liberals.

It really isn’t. You sound like you don’t even understand it yourself. There are no preference flows under Hare-Clark. There are voters other choices.

GrumpyGrandpa2:01 pm 28 Nov 24

Season,
The Greens lost seats and the Independents picked up seats.
My conclusion might be simplistic however it appears that leftie voters didn’t want to support either ALP or Libs, but wanted to send a message to the government.

It’s literally what I said Grandpa, dissatisfaction with the government translated to a strong indi vote and two indi seats but no one really wanted to risk a Liberal government. This upsets Kenbo.

There absolutely are preference flows genius, I didn’t say preference flows were decided by the party (I know reading can be a challenge).

People know preferences are decided by the voters, that’s why they’re encouraged to number every box a parties hand out how to vote cards.

PS. The people decided they didn’t want the ACT Liberals in power. Sorry Komrade Kenbo.

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