Amphetamine fever comes to Canberra

Drug (illicit or legal) is a symptom of some other issue – whether personal or social or whatever. Talking about drug use without addressing the cause (an we’re bloody great at doing that) is insane. Address the causes of why someone chooses to substance abuse, you fix the problem. In the meantime regulate instead of criminalise which to date has been a pathetically failed public policy.

I hate it when my mates steal my last MB from the shed fridge 😛

(Alcohol related theft)

let’s just say the theives were known to me.

JB – how do u know they were alcoholics ?

Did you catch the assailants and have them summonsed to appear in court.

I can not say for sure – but 99% chance that everything stolen off me ended up in the arm/cone/nose/cigarette of a drug user – not the belly of an alco. Why do you think that alcoholics drink metho and OJ – its because they can not afford real alcohol.

Drug abusers do not have a cheap option – hence the statistical data will reflect that a great deal of theft from vehicles and houses is drug related.

you really should move out of ainlsie village jb 🙂

Gee – I would have thought the $8 million (or was it more) the Howard govt spent on sending us all that nice brocuhre about drugs would have solved all the problems.
Perhaps Bill should have told his friends ice is harmfull, and then of course they would have stopped, once they realised.

I’ve had more stolen from me by alcoholics than junkies.

The lowlife shits that burgled and trashed my joint were drugfucked heroin addicts who unloaded what they stole for $100 to get another hit.

Haven’t heard of many blokes with a belly full of VB burgling a joint to get another schooner.

Comparing pissheads to the drugfucked makes as much sense as a fish riding a bicycle (or a recumbent cycle if the fish is gay).

I’m not sure that it is more readily available, I think it is probably easier to buy a gram of speed at 4am on a Tuesday morning than it is get a beer, I hazard a guess for the speed you’ll even get home delivery.

Re addiction you may or may not be right I’m sure somewhere out there someone’s done a reasonably valid study on the matter however I don’t think there would be much difference, it’s the psychology of the person taking it that is likely to lead to addiction rather than the inherent addictive power of the substance.

Blinker, only because it is more readily available.

i haven’t seen any statistics but i’d wager that the relative percentage of addicts from people who drink alcohol is much lower than those who try heroin or other similarly addictive illicit drugs.

Sure the total numbers of alcohol addicts are higher, but only becuase there are more people using it.

sorry, I’m being a bit concrete

…child neglect, absenteeism, etc etc.
All drugs can be consumed orally (although i presume that comment was facetious)

those are things performed by humans binker

not performed by a bottle of red wine

violence, vandalism, DUI->MVA

and alcohol is not a drug, its a food.

only to alcoholics

But alcohol is a bigger danger to the public than any other drug.

That didn’t quite work. Try this

Stefaniak’s joined the hysteria. Love that headline.

i wouldnt say any particular product is more addictive than an other.

i think some people have addictive personalities.

these people will succumb to almost anything, be it heroin, pokies, chocolate or ebay.

the bigger issue is the danger to the public that any specific addiction driven causal factor delivers.

in that case id crack down hard on illegal drug suppliers.

Drug or alchohol use should never be an excuse for committing crime.
They chose to take the drugs in the first place – Their actions are complettly there responsibility.
No matter how F*cked up you are on Meth or whatever you still know that Raping someone is the wrong thing to do. That’s just bullshit!!
People shouldn’t be locked up for taking drugs, but should be for dealing.

Simto – Not much counterfeit prescription or pharmacy medicines here in AU because they are so cheap to produce and market. In developing nations such as India etc its rampant.

Alcohol is very addictive (ask any alcoholic), alcohol addiction (similarly benzo addiction) is such that usually a medically supervised detoxification is required so that you don’t die from the DT’s, this is why the detox unit at TCH always keeps an extra bed available for an alcoholic who presents in DT”s but will not give it to a heroin user who is withdrawing, as heroin withdrawals although painful rarely present any major medical complications.

So what I’m saying is that addictiveness is comparable between legal and illegal drugs, most people who try heroin never go one to be heroin addicts, just as with alcohol.

I think JB’s more talking about cases where someone’s locked up for posession (which causes harm to nobody but yourself), not cases where someone’s producing dodgy pills, or knocking off people’s videos to pay for the dodgy pills.

If these were legalised, the legal pills would be less dangerous to produce and, presumably, cheaper. So yeah, you could still buy the dubious versions, but the price differential wouldn’t be that much, and the safety differential would be horrendous.

I don’t notice all that many people pushing dodgy panadol, for example.

well the excuses of criminals isn’t the most compelling evidence i’ve ever seen.

What about the whole arguments thats surfacing in a sydney court at the moment.

Defendent claims he was not responsible for his actions in a gang rape because he had been on a 6 day meth binge.

What a crock of shit…… IMO

People who kill when DUI dont get any exceptions.

Isn’t it the significantly higher addictiveness of illicit drugs (vs say alcohol) that also lends itself to not being able to be used responsibly ?

We all know the evils of alcohol but doesn’t the very nature illicit drugs (addictiveness, physiological effects, etc) suggest that by and large these sort of drugs should not be ‘readily’ available at your corner shop ?

sure lock up people actually doing something that hurts others.

“I don’t advocate locking them up for it.”

If they broke a law, in particular one that caused harm to an innocent member of society, why not lock them up?

I disapprove of lots of things other people chose to do.

I don’t advocate locking them up for it.

Well, I’d rather have responsible heroin use than irresponsible heroin use. Which is the other side of the coin.

legalising the drug does mean that it can be regulated to an extent – but then what, will we have nightclubs where you can shoot up, buy pills over the counter??
I wouldn’t be down with that.
What message would it send out to the younger ones (or the older -not-so-bright one) “It’s legal so it can’t be that bad for you”
Alchohol is just as damaging as a lot of drugs, but legal and therefore more socially acceptable – do we really want “responsible herion use” becoming a slogan, or become socially acceptable?

Alcohol is legalised and quality controled – still people going blind and mentally retarded from drinking dodgy homestill methanol moonshine.

Legalisation isnt going to make the illicit market go away.

I have knowledge of counterfeit perscription and pharmacy medications. Why do people do this – to undercut the legal market.

Same goes with now illicit drugs. Legalise them and they will just get cheaper on the illicit side.

Anyone who downs a bottle of vodka is either very irate to its effects or stupid. So is anyone taking illicit drugs in vast quantities.

This is the reason you dont see me taking whole boxes of travel sickness pills or panadol – they are legal too – but can still kill you, its called responsible use.

While drugs remain illicit using them is going to be like playing russian roulette.

As for legalising illicit drugs, good luck I dont think for a minute that will solve the problem.

Binker – I agree that there are legitimate ADHD diagnosis, but yes, the drugs are grossly over prescribed (as are a lot of prescribed medicines)
I mean more what will the long term affects of taking amphetamines for 15 years be for the people who were misdiagnosed.
As for the diet issue, I mean look at the diet before the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD, not as a cure for people who a legimate ADD/ADHD cases.
I for one had to had to have a special diet when I was little becuase of behavioural issues, when my mum connected that I would react after eating certain foods (various preservatives etc) and cut them out of my diet my behavious improved dramatically – although I got somewhat resentful when I had to have ‘carob’ easter eggs and everyone else got real chocolate.

The problem is, people care about other human beings. So demonising them is somewhat difficult, even when they behave hideously.

We don’t really care about inarticulate, immobile combinations of chemicals. So demonising them is incredibly easy. And blaming them for what happens when the chemicals hit the human being is what we do, when we’re seeking to avoid blaming the people we used to love for their increasingly dubious natures.

I am yet to go to a pub and see someone die so quickly from a hotshot of VB

How about downing a bottle of vodka?

Anyway quality control would be fixed by legalisation so it’s hardly an argument for continued criminalisation is it?

Difference being Alcohol has quality control in most developed nations (provided its not moonshine).

I am yet to go to a pub and see someone die so quickly from a hotshot of VB that they are still clutching their skoo-ey glass firmly in their hand.

Demonise away – Illicit drugs are bad mmkay

Don’t demonise the drug, if you have to demonise, demonise the user. Just because alcohol causes more problems (violence, crime, health) than all other drugs combined doesn’t lead to society demonising it (except the Sally Army), why do this for other drugs.
There are plenty of people who were “nice guys” before they started drinking and are now rabid violent arseholes just as there are with amphet/heroin etc. Occasional drug use doesn’t usually change your personality just as occasional alcohol use does not.
I’m not really fussed about drug/alcohol use I just think people should take a consistent position on substance (drug and alcohol) use and abuse, not demonises drugs on the one hand while demonising the abuser of alcohol on the other.

FC, now there are plenty of adults who were prescribed methylphenidate or dexamphetamine as children and they are now perfectly normal adults. Admittedly there is a tendency to over-diagnose ADHD/ADD and over-prescribe stimulants but that doesn’t mean they do not have their legitimate uses and that they are not highly effective when used appropriately (don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater). Diet (eg Finegold) as a treatment for ADHD/ADD has been largely discredited (despite what ACA of TT would have you believe), although behavioural therapy has not (however behaviour therapy and stimulants used together are more effective than either one alone).

If people choose to take drugs then that’s up to them. What shits me is when they describe themselves as ‘victims’.

Prescribed amphetimines – can’t wait till these kids grow up.
Its the easy way out –
How about a healthy diet and discipline.
I work with heaps of kids who apparantly have ADHD – They are also fed caffiene and junk food constantly by their parents -hmm, I wonder why they are having behavioural issues??
I guess its easier for the parents/doctors to drug them up than actually do some real work to help change behaviours..

Have a look at the latest Illicit Drug Data report found here and you will see that meth is not a new problem – More likley local media liaison officers getting on the national media bandwagon. The media coverage will die down soon – but the problem wont. Its cyclic.

When the CPO stops generalising I’ll be happy to do so too.

These drugs have been around forever –
I have known heaps of people who have turned psychotic after taking heaps of ‘ice’, oh -that’s right, they where psycho crims before they got into it to – my bad.

If you’re wanting to generalise drug use down to the class of drug, then don’t forget to mention how opiates are given therapeutically and thus the bad reputation of heroine is undeserved.

There’s a world of difference between prescribed use and proscribed use.