Rape crisis?

even without a conviction it’s quite traumatic for the rapists too, i imagine more than one has mended their ways rather than take their chances again.

More funding for the RCC.

Absolutely that is the main thing here.. whether people are taken to court or not..the support for the victim needs to be there.

There is research showing that taking rapists to court is painful and intrusive for the victims. I can see why people don’t do it. Especially if councelling and support is lacking.

More funding for the RCC.

Now now FC, don’t go getting all vigilante…

I intend to stay out of this thread, my thoughts are well enough known on the topic already.

I would hazard to say that most people nowadays are leaving the courts unfulfilled, not just s.assault victims. Akin to the bureau of made up statistics, apply a general discontent across all court hearings, and the s.assault statistic will seem, more probably, consistent with the rest of the proceedings.

It remains the onus of responsibility for the victim to ‘dredge’ up the details, because that’s what the court needs to know to apply a prosecution.

I am aware that’s not nice, however allowing a rapist to reoffend is also a crime, not only is it abhorrent, it’s would have also been a 100% avoidable crime.

If the egg falls on the rock, pity the egg.
If the rock falls on the egg, pity the egg.

Man this proverb works everywhere, and scrambled eggs for everybody…

“Denial can lead to mental illness or can at the very least damage a someones relationships with others and potentially ruin the rest of their lives.” AD
As can going to to court and being made to re- live a trauma and then have a jury of your peers determine that you are lying/ or have them found guilty and have a judge trivialise your experience by handing down a bullshit sentence.
I am not saying that people shouldn’t go to court, but the rare few I know who have gone to court for sexual assault, have been left feeling more bitter about everything.
I have great faith in services that are out there to help victoms of sexual assault – but unfortunitly our justice system just aint one of them.
Better off just getting someone to cut the perps winky off and be done with it…

[Too dim to use hyperlinks]

…or too cool? BAM!

I can see that the lines there could be blurry given it is a hard thing to prove, but with professional help these things can be overcome. If there is a slight chance of putting one scumbag behind bars or at least have there name put out there then it is better than nothing.

Denial can lead to mental illness or can at the very least damage a someones relationships with others and potentially ruin the rest of their lives.

Telling someone you were raped can be as difficult as the act itself. It can be easier to just never ever discuss it. I’m not saying it is the best thing to do, I am saying that it is the only way some women (and probably men – I am not ignoring men, just can’t speak for any of them)cope with what has happened.

Sometimes going to the police about these things can just end up hurting the victom more.
Of Course it depends on the circumstances and whether the victom knew the perpetrator – but even if it does go to court you have a 1 in 10 chance of conviction, and even if you do get a conviction – sentencing is usually pretty light.
Victoms of sexual assault have to weigh up whether the personal price of going, considering the odds of a conviction is minimal, is too high.

Rape is a very difficult crime to prove. There are also the evidence collection procedures that the victims has to undergo. Given these factors it’s not suprising not many complaints get made, and even fewer successful convictions are achieved.

Accordingly, I think it’s a good idea to educate people as to what they do to reduce the risk of rape as much as possible. This doesn’t mean we blame victims, but rather take a pragmatic view of the problem. It must be a terrible thing to be subject to this type of crime, which is why I think it would be worth investigating whether education and proactive measures could be taken in the prevention sense.

As far as drink spiking goes, well, getting blind pissed wearing very little is probably one of those risk factors isn’t it? Yeah, it shouldn’t influence things, but in the real world we know that it does.

no, denial is a poor coping mechanism – that’s why we need an increase in funding for expert counsellors who can navigate the victims through this mental trauma – isn’t that what this thread is about??

Denial is not a good dealing mechanism. Dealing with it by putting the guys behind bars, as well getting help from friends and professionals is. Denial is not putting yourself first.

[Too dim to use hyperlinks]

AD: It’s a survival thing. Telling the police means that it really happened. Some women can only survive after this sort of thing by remaining in denial.

If you haven’t been there, don’t you DARE say that they are “pissing you off”. Sometimes you have to put yourself first. It’s not like being beaten up outside a club – you don’t just get over it and think “you know, I should do the right thing”.

excuse my lack of speaking england good this morning.

Every girl that I know who has been raped have never reported it to the cops. It really pisses me off.. they are then allowing the offender to go out and do it again to some other poor chick.

I don’t doubt for a second that drink spiking occurs, and we all have a responsibility to watch our drinks and those of our friends.

However, I don’t think it happens as much as people think it does. Especially in a backwater like Canberra. Maybe it happens more in sydney, but like I said – I’m sure it happens, but not as much as people carry on about.

If you believe the hype, at every single pub and club in Canberra there is guy walking around with a bottle of rohypnal, and someone who leaves their drink unattended enough that he can use it.

“Ah, so we are to accept that there are places and events in our society where rape is likely and the recommended response is to warn women not to go there and blame them for being raped if they do. Lovely.

Comment by loadedog — 18 February, 2007 @ 5:20 pm “

No you nong. You do everything you can to minimise the possibility of rape occurring, ensure people’s safety, provide support, etc,etc,.. and you acknowledge that there are still going to be high risk situations where it’s smarter not to go.

In the original article re Summernats that referred to Schmerica, the RCC counsellor suggested a woman should be able to walk down the street naked without fear of being raped. So she should, but the REALITY is that if you were to do it with the expectation of complete safety, you’d be living in cloud cuckoo land!!! Grow up!!

I didn’t drink at my formal either, but I got smashed afterwards

Thats what she said vg, but IO have faith in what she tells me, she certainly wasnt drinking at her formal, I know that much for a fact.

yeah and not only those from women. Men call, many ignored. Many don’t call. Sexual Assault of a man, (by a man or woman) not often seriously treated. There are all the usual issues of reporting about court and fear of ridicule (or actual ridicule)etc…

sure, reported rapes are just the tip of the iceburg.

no question.

But this aint the half of it…

They are only talking about the women that called and have to wait for counselling…

I dunno, what were you?

“Simmo grow the hell up. Go to Calvary and ask how many people actually get their drinks spiked”

“Canberra and Calvary hospitals report treating up to 200 people a year who suspect they’ve had a drink spiked.” http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=news&subclass=local&story_id=382935&category=General+News&m=4&y=2005

Yeah, I should grow the hell up, and instantly revert to name calling. Say best case scenario is that tht statistic talks about a combined total, 200 cases a year is nothing, and worst case each hospital reports 200 a year for 400 total, still, that’s nothing, pfft, what was I thinking.

I love the line about there being two waiting lists “absolute priority and priority”.

“Ah, so we are to accept that there are places and events in our society where rape is likely and the recommended response is to warn women not to go there and blame them for being raped if they do. Lovely.”

One of the greatest logical leaps I’ve seen here. No one said anyone should be blamed for ‘getting themselves raped’.

I already posted this on the original RA article, but I think it’s really relevant and wanted to post it here too: http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/one-violent-crime-and-the-female-victim/2007/02/02/1169919532266.html

Also – if 6 rapes a month are reported to police, a much larger number will be contacting the RCC and askeing for councelling, but prefer not to put themselves thru the court experience.

Rape Crisis Centre staff are expert in councelling, not lobbying government. They are not well resourced and not well paid – much like charity workers, social workers etc. The article isn’t exactly critical of govt – it doesn’t seem like a media blitz to me.

Presumably they do not give out their figures as a policy. It could actually have been the CT journo who contacted police for their figures.

Do you really think if they’d asked Katy nicely she would have coughed up a massive funding increase straight away?

These type of services are notiriously underfunded. A few years ago John Howard funded a phone line for bashed women. Millions was spent advertising it (to show the pubolic something was being done). Unfortunately none was left for services, so those who rang the help line were just told no shelter was available.

If this is the way for the RCC to get better funding it doesn’t bother me.

Ah, so we are to accept that there are places and events in our society where rape is likely and the recommended response is to warn women not to go there and blame them for being raped if they do. Lovely.

Having been associated with a number of RCC clients over time, I would point out that RCC’s first response to any allegation is total acceptance of it’s veracity (as it should be). Great care therefore needs to be taken with statistical data for allegations, compared to proven assaults. RCC should be reporting statistics for allegations, they are not a law enforcement agency, and they do not investigate assaults, drink spiking, etc.

That said, I agree with JB that simply because an agency provides a vital service does not mean they are skilled administrators, (in fact it often means the opposite), nor that the appropriate approach for funding is through the local rag. It’s a bit precious to get stuck in just because this is a delicate area, rather than thinking about the actual point being made – go for more funding if needed, but go through the right channels. (He did say he’d apologise if he was wrong.

Schmerica, disregard the politically correct bullshit, I got it, don’t go to a place where the chances of being raped/assaulted/abused are about 500% higher than usual, it’s not a good idea!!!!

Is that what she said, or what you saw?

I had a friend last year who is certain her drink was spiked. Well it does seem obvious to me it was. She was not drinking for the night, This was at an after formal party with a few different schools. She had a few cokes late that night, the next thing she remembers is being picked up by her mum around 2am, Her mum believed she was pissed, despite drinking no alcohol.

well you know, after the first dozen drinks everything gets a bit hazy.

I sometimes wonder how people get their drinks spiked. You stand at the bar and watch the bartender pour it, then you take it away and drink it before putting leaving the glass to be taken away. If you don’t leave your glass alone and buy your own drinks, you shouldn’t get it spiked… well, in theory anyway.

I have to totally agree with vg on this issue of drink spiking. In my experience boozing and partying my way around the world the majority of these so called drink spiking incidents are simply a case of to much alcohol drunk. Different types of alcoholic drinks can effect you in different ways. Its not just the alcohol content that affects you its the different types of compounds that make up the drink as well. Just try getting pissed purely on Champagne as compared to Red wine which is different again from white wine or beer. Vodka and Gin have different effects as well.

I’m not saying spiking doesn’t happen because it does but I would say its been way over hyped.

Ive had the experience of waking up not knowing what country I was in hahaha And I didn’t blame that on drink spiking.

Re: The original article. How far are Schmerica’s comments from what Sheik Hilaly said about fresh meat?

I would say that my comments are quite far from what Sheik Hilaly said. As far as I’m aware, he was talking about women not covering up and not wearing the traditional hijab, whilst walking down the street on a daily basis. I was simply pointing out that Summernats really isn’t an appropriate place to be on a Saturday night, especially wearing little clothing and considering the circumstances and events that go on there.

Here I was thinking that a month down the track that the Summernats topics had faded.

Simmo grow the hell up. Go to Calvary and ask how many people actually get their drinks spiked. Every case is taken on its face value and is investigated appropriately until nothing further can be done. I can unequivocally say that there are significant numbers of matters that are reported as ‘spikings’ but are done moreso because someone is looking for an excuse for their behaviour to explain to someone else (parents, partners etc). Ask someone who actually works with these matters, rather than what the CT will tell you about the ‘epidemic’. Epidemic my ass.

As always this is my personal not professional opinion. If someone feels they have been mocked or not taken seriously they can complain. In 17 years I’ve never had someone accuse me of mocking them or not taking them seriously, and I have spent more time prosecuting offenders than I care to remember. If you are equating my comments with that of the said Sheik I’m sorry, but moronic isn’t a strong enough word to describe that logical leap.

“vg, an incidence of people convictd for an offence, or lack thereof, is in now way necessarily indicative of the incidence of the offence…”.

That may well be correct, but it is an idication of the veracity of someone’s complaint that they take it the whole 9 yards, rather than simply explain their behaviour away that way. It is not an epidemic as some people would care to have you believe.

vg, an incidence of people convictd for an offence, or lack thereof, is in now way necessarily indicative of the incidence of the offence…

i’m not purporting to comment on the actual incidence of drink spiking – i merely point to faulty reasoning…

and jb, a five year wait for increased funding is not prima facie a case of misadministration. many good projects across the public sector faulter due to lack of funding simply through maladministration at the government level.

don’t always shoot the messenger… maybe instead invite them in to participate in the discussion?

The fact that nobody has gone to court for it is entirely inconsequential. It happens, and that’s that. If you go to Calvary and say you have had your drink spiked, they will do tests and let you know if you are just pissed, or if you have unknowingly ingested horse tranquilisers or something.

The reaction to drink spiking, the use of inverted commas suggesting it is all made up is quite interesting. Reassuring to know if vg’s opinions are indicative of the police’s, nothing makes a person feel more comfortable in going to the police than knowing they will be mocked and not taken seriously. Perhaps the “uncovered meat” train of thought, famoulsy used in assigning blame by Taj el-Din al-Hilali has a western equivalent. It seems people think who is to blame for drink spiking, the person who spikes the drink, or the person who leaves the drink uncovered?

the girl last year was drugged by a person she knew as I recall it.

I’m not questioning the need for a rape crisis centre, not questioning that it needs to be properly funded. I have no personal knowledge of the quality of the work they do.

But if it is true that rape victims are waiting months to receive any counselling at all, and if that is the result of a five year trend, then that’s a problem with the centre’s administration.

Similarly our own experience of their media tactics combined with the distorted statistics used here (note: no mention of the actual hard numbers of calls being made on the counselling service, curious no?), and the canard of drink spiking being raised, makes me deeply suspicious of what they’re up to.

Surely no-one is suggesting that simply because a service is crucial its administration will at all times be beyond reproach?

Therefore it is crucial for discussion of that administration to remain within the pale, or as sure as night follows day it will get rotten and won’t get fixed.

If the paid administration of the centre can’t fill in the right paperwork to get into the Minister’s statistics then surely it’s time for new administration?

And I’m not being insensitive. The RCC provides a vital service. I’m only talking about the ‘epidemic’ of drink spiking

When was the last time you saw or heard of anyone going to Court in the ACT for ‘spiking’ someone’s drink. I can’t recall any

a) Wasn’t there a big story last year about a 16 year old girl who was raped after a drink spiking incident, and then locked up in the same police centre as the offender (because she had outstanding warrants)? Can’t remember when it was, but I would be truly shocked if there were NO verified cases of drink spiking in this town.

b) It is entirely possible that one RCC counsellor spoke out of turn to a journalist, and CT decided it was just too easy NOT to print a story based on it.

c) Just because Katy says nobody’s complained, doesn’t mean nobody’s complained. I can give you plenty of examples of “nobody’s complained” meaning “nobody’s filled in the official complaint form and lodged it at the designated office”.

d) The numbers in CT’s story make no sense to me. That doesn’t mean RCC are administratively incompetent, it more likely means CT journalists can’t count or be bothered doing proper research.

e) loadedog is right, you’re picking on RCC unjustly based on one CT article that’s obviously poorly written. And it really does come across as being driven by spite on your part.

i support any funding increase required, theseervices are

Anyone using dubious media tactics to engender a sense of crisis is fair game IMHO.

If they had previously informed the minister of the problem then we assume they’ll now release that correspondence and I will happily apologise.

But I very much doubt even Katy is silly enough to lie about something that can so easily be checked up on.

Experience teaches us that featuring as the Sunday Times lead beat up is indicative of being bullshit, if not conclusive.

sorry jb, but loadedog has rightly taken you to task; the rcc may be ‘a group seeking a funding hike’ and they may or may not have reasons to pursue what you take to be something you call a ‘media ambush’ [what exactly is this?] but rcc isn’t a target for such lowest common demoninator venting, old chap.

sugggest you call a counsellor… ; )

heaven forfend anyone ever questions a media ambush by a group seeking a funding hike.

Re: The original article. How far are Schmerica’s comments from what Sheik Hilaly said about fresh meat? Debate?

Re: The above. How long do you think it takes to counsel a woman who has been raped, John? A week? Six new cases are added to an ongoing case load.

I find this attack of yours on the RCC one of your lowest acts so far my friend, full of assumptions (including taking a Minister’s words as gospel) and apparently motivated by spite.

Shame