Canberra Centre carpark not for big cars?

I have driven VE Commodores before, not noticeably bigger that the Forrester. I have also driven Landcruisers, vans and trucks. Bigger than Commodores. The carpark is wide enough.

Three comment nutter.

Indeed.

I still had more room than I knew what to do with and could weave back and forth.

My comment stands. Learn how to drive.

Three comment nutter.

Oh, one more thing to clear up.

The guy in the picture “on” the car is MrM!!!

Just to make sure it’s clear, the guy who calls himself the car lover is the guy in the article, not the co worker showing us the article.

He was showing us the article because he owns the same model sports car that’s in the picture with the tubby half naked british guy on it with no pants.

Damm, I remember when Zoo Weekly used to be a respectable publication:)

MrM, um, some guy at work was showing people an article in Zoo Weekly about a British guy who humps cars. He called him self a “car lover”. If as you described a Car Enthusiast is some one who “loves cars” then keep your hands and god knows what off my car you creep. Yuck, eeewwww….. creeps!

Vic: Don’t worry, all’s forgiven – and I’m *still* laughing at this:

Why don’t you go piss off to poofville, where you and your fellow black skivvy wearers can drive your shitty little euro crap where nothing but roses and jonquils come out the exhaust.

If conjures up a certain type of imagery 😀

Special G – It’s not exactly a big car, either.

The track (width between centre points of the tyres) of the VE Series Commodore is VERY wide, even when compared with the previous model commodores. That’s why they can be a bitch to navigate around extremely narrow spaces – like in crappily laid out carparks such as the one at the Canberra Centre.

A VE Commodore is quite a bit bigger than a Subaru Forester. A Forester is actaully a pretty small car in the overall scheme of things, I wouldn’t expect a Forester to have any trouble at all in that carpark.

My apologies to you el. You are, of course, a person of class and I enjoy reading your posts 🙂

Now our new chum terry on the other hand…. LOL!!!!

I went to the new Canberra centre carpark today. I drive a Scooby do Forrester. Not exactly a small car.

I had heaps of space, no problems parking and din’t hit anything.

I think you just need to learn how to drive.

The thing that makes being a car enthusiast so interesting is the fact that we all like different things. That’s the whole point! Being able to look at someone else’s machine and say “hey, not my cup of tea, but it’s nice nonetheless” is what it’s all about.

Oh, and people do realise that Lexus is actually a Toyota, right?

“Mr M, you say you love cars. You have a passion for cars. What crap. You’re a hoon, a little boy with overpriced toys.

Car enthusiasts are those who buy limited edition sports cars, restore and/or collect vintage and rare cars and if your rich enough (spare $25,000US), drive custom built cars.

But a mass produced Commodore is no different to any other car. Shaw, cars have different styling and technical features… but at the end of the day, there just 4 wheels and a cabin with an engine”

Wow, you sure turned on me there – what changed your mind after the earlier stated respect for the points I was making? 🙂

As far as I see it, a car enthusiast is someone who loves cars. That’s all the definition you need. By your argument, a car enthusiast shouldn’t buy something they like driving that they consider to be excellent value for the purchase price, they should instead buy something rare that needs restoration. I find that an absurdly illogical argument.

I am enthusiastic about cars, and I bought a car that reflects that enthusiasm. Enough said.

Terry, your woeful understanding of the viewpoints of others, and continual insistance to push your point of view down other’s throats is a good indicator of what’s wrong with the Public Service: the galahs running it. I have worked with a range of Federal and Local govco departments, and this attitude is common amongst the SES.

You think 7.9l/100km is good for a 3.5 litre v6? You’re an idiot. There are diesel engines that make better power and torque than most such engines and return vastly better fuel consumption. Also, the energy and chemicals used to construct this enviro-destroying piece of technocrap are mind blowing.

Hey, steady on there Vic! I’m a ‘lowly’ APS 3 – similar situ to Danman I think (Ex-baker though, not ex-chef) – I’m still allowed to be a car enthusiast though, it just means I drive a VN V8 (owned outright) as opposed to a VE (packaged) 😉

And Terry – if you’re so concerned about mileage and running costs you should look at the VW Turbo Diesel hatches – they return better economy than the hybrids.

HTH.

Terry – I would prefer a free EB falcon over paying for a corolla wagon.

Until my personal loan is paid – I have no choice – after that I plan on a AWD wagon – so I dont need to be re-educated – thanks anyway.

Also – I have seen a SLR8000 that cost the owner $120 000 back in the mid 1990’s – yet its still a torana – is he a hoon or an enthusiast.

Your argument holds no water

Who cares if your an SES in the APS – Im a 4 and an EX Chef….. whats your point……(ps ner ner i get flex and you dont 😛 )

If you wanna drive a hybrid – power to you – but dont force your choices on others – that why we call them choices – because we make them ourselves.

I stopped smoking – that my contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

“Car enthusiasts are those who buy limited edition sports cars, restore and/or collect vintage and rare cars and if your rich enough (spare $25,000US), drive custom built cars.”

Lol besides that being one of the silliest comments I have seen on here for a while. You cant be serious when you say 25,000US is a lot of money. Ive spent more then that on the engine alone in a certain car I use to have and In some peoples eyes thats a waste of money but stiff shit I had fun. And if you think cars a waste of money wait till you start on boats thats where the real money is spent.

Anyway car enthusiasts like people in general are varied and have different tastes. Thats what makes it interesting. You can make up stereo types in your own mind but thats just a shame and its sad that some one is so narrow minded.

Wow, I was really wrong about those sizes. When you look at the two cars side by side, as I once did in a carpark (Magna and Commodore), you would awear the Magna was bigger. I stand corrected. That does prove that even though Holden doesn’t put much work into making the cars fuel efficient, they certainly make them big, and yet stylish.

And your comment about “the rest of us with high disposable incomes”. What disposable income, after you’ve burnt money on cigarettes, cheap beer (but lots of it), Bundy rum and ZOO weekly? All your comment proves is what a philosopher once said:

“A fool and his money are soon parted”

Oh, over the past six years, I have invested the returns from my rental properties into shares and term deposits. Thanks to some decent ANZ term despits and the strength of mining resources, next year I will have change left over after I buy a nice “little” Lexus GS450h. THE H IS FOR HYBRID!!!
7.9/100km is not bad for a 3.5L CVT V6.

Wow, I was really wrong about those sizes. When you look at the two cars side by side, as I once did in a carpark (Magna and Commodore), you would awear the Magna was bigger. I stand corrected. That does prove that even though Holden doesn’t put much work into making the cars fuel efficient, they certainly make them big, and yet stylish.

And your comment about “the rest of us with high disposable incomes”. What disposable income, after you’ve burnt money on cigarettes, cheap beer (but lots of it), Bundy rum and ZOO weekly? All your comment proves is what a philosopher once said:

“A fool and his money are soon parted”

Oh, over the past six years, I have invested the returns from my rental properties into shares and term deposits. Thanks to some decent ANZ term despits and the strength of mining resources, next year I will have change left over after I buy a nice “little” Lexus GS450h. THE H IS FOR HYBRID!!!
7.9/100km is not bad for a 3.5L CVT V6.

Wow, I was really wrong about those sizes. When you look at the two cars side by side, as I once did in a carpark (Magna and Commodore), you would awear the Magna was bigger. I stand corrected. That does prove that even though Holden doesn’t put much work into making the cars fuel efficient, they certainly make them big, and yet stylish.

And your comment about “the rest of us with high disposable incomes”. What disposable income, after you’ve burnt money on cigarettes, cheap beer (but lots of it), Bundy rum and ZOO weekly? All your comment proves is what a philosopher once said:

“A fool and his money are soon parted”

Oh, over the past six years, I have invested the returns from my rental properties into shares and term deposits. Thanks to some decent ANZ term despits and the strength of mining resources, next year I will have change left over after I buy a nice “little” Lexus GS450h. THE H IS FOR HYBRID!!!
7.9/100km is not bad for a 3.5L CVT V6.

Ah terry_wrist, you sad pathetic individual.

Your latest reply to mine is gold. Not only are you euro trash in your desire for a BMW, you are wanna-be euro trash. You cannot afford one, yet you wish you owned one!! LOL. And you have the gumption to bag me for my SS!

You sunshine, are well and truly owned publicly.

Keep on dreaming, and one day, you may well afford a decent car.

The rest of us, with high disposable incomes will purchase cars with as many cylinders as we like – particularly V8’s.

You obviously cannot afford to run one, since you keep on referring to running costs. This is a dead set give away for the poverty stricken housing commission set.

If you keep your career options open, maybe – and just maybe – you will win your coveted dream job as an ASO3 at AG’s. But only if you wish upon a star.

You may one day become true euro trash, not wanna-be euro trash. You keep those dreams going sunshine, OK?

And again Terry, as is becoming common place, you’re wrong.

89 Magna length: 4620mm (4723mm for the wagon)

VE Commodore Length 4894mm, BF Falcon is 4916mm

Magna Width 1765mm

VE Width 1899mm, BF 1864mm

Wheelbase and track are also longer/wider for the 2 ‘big 2’ large family sedans.

And FWIW, from the mid 90’s on the Magnas weren’t actually that bad.

Even if some of them looked a bit like a cock from the front:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Facelifted2003magnaLS.jpg

Mr M, you say you love cars. You have a passion for cars. What crap. You’re a hoon, a little boy with overpriced toys.

Car enthusiasts are those who buy limited edition sports cars, restore and/or collect vintage and rare cars and if your rich enough (spare $25,000US), drive custom built cars.

But a mass produced Commodore is no different to any other car. Shaw, cars have different styling and technical features… but at the end of the day, there just 4 wheels and a cabin with an engine.

With regards to my superannuation’s argument, I’m not arguing that you should do that (although it wouldn’t hurt. It is just an example of how over a long period of time, driving a more sensible car will reap sizable returns. Perhaps when the reserve bank does a few more .25% interest rate increases and some of you guys have to sell your car to pay the mortgage, you will understand that.

Danman, I can see you have a valid reason for driving a larger car. That said, you could probably use a Corolla Wagon. As I have said several times, my problem is with people who drive these big cars just because there big, for no real reason. I am not suggesting we should all drive small cars (certainly not the poor performing and poor fuel efficient Suzukis), but I think we should choose more sensible cars. I might add that I am not limiting my argument simply to environmental concerns. These larger cars (falcon and Commodore) do not perform as well in safety tests as many Japanese and European small – medium cars do. Economically, they are expensive to run. Environmentally, they do have greater emissions.

Oh for the record, I am a public servant. But I invest in the stock market ad have a couple of rental properties. So my APS-SES level salary and investment income make for a nice bank account at the end of the day. But thanks for your concern

Eppilepsy on the ‘say it’ button…

whats with teh multipule posts ?

When did cars go from being a form of trasport to being:
– a status symbol
– a fashion accessory
– a tool to make up for ones lack of tool
– a definitive human characteristic (as some would have you believe)

I would guess around the time of Al Capone – or before.

When did cars go from being a form of trasport to being:
– a status symbol
– a fashion accessory
– a tool to make up for ones lack of tool
– a definitive human characteristic (as some would have you believe)

I would guess around the time of Al Capone – or before.

When did cars go from being a form of trasport to being:
– a status symbol
– a fashion accessory
– a tool to make up for ones lack of tool
– a definitive human characteristic (as some would have you believe)

I would guess around the time of Al Capone – or before.

Terry Wrist – I think global warming will be greatly reduced if you kept your mouth shut.

I drive an EB falcodore – it was given to me for free.

Its perfect for me and my dogs (no not a pit bull or something – a Samoyoodle and a Schnoodle)

To that end – I doubt I could have gottenb me, my dogs and my fiancee around comfortably in a 2dr Suzuki swift.

Or maybe my stepdad just thought I have a small wang – hence the big car.
Deal with it – or get on a bike.

I have to admit I’m with Vic B on this one. I can easily afford the price, the petrol and ongoing cost. (Actually I have 2 cars, both bought new in recent years).

The superannuation argument doesn’t stack up either. I’ve made several hundred thousand dollars from property in the last few years, much more quickly and easily than jumping through the superannuation hoops. And because I worked my little ass off when younger, I pull a couple of hundred k in income a year anyway.

My car, my choice. Environmentally my car is still better than most small cars that are 10 or more years old anyway.

And if you don’t like it, fell free to whinge on an anonymous blog. Ooooooohhhh!

“And why are we comparing Commorodores to Corollas anyway. I only used that comparison to show how much one would save downsizeing their car. If we are going to compare card directly, how about the Commodore, Falcon and Aurion. WOuld any of you drive the 9.9l/11km Dual VVTI Aurion with 6 airbags and which won the Large Car of the Year from both the NRMA and Drive.com.au?”

We’re comparing the Commodore with the Corolla because you pointed out the savings of Corolla ownership compared to Commodore ownership. Having said that, when I bought the Commodore I didn’t consider the Aurion – it’s far too bland, looks ugly and poorly proportioned, doesn’t have enough front seat space (because of a design fault, not because it’s small) and only comes with automatic transmission so that ruled it out for me. I also looked at the Falcon but it is too out of date now to warrant serious consideration unless you change your cars every year or two – I’m planning to go for 10.

I doubt that any Magna is bigger than a Commodore though. Front wheel drive would be part of the problem though, as FWD cars need more space to turn in as a general rule.

“When did cars go from being a form of trasport to being:
– a status symbol
– a fashion accessory
– a tool to make up for ones lack of tool
– a definitive human characteristic (as some would have you believe)”

I find myself asking almost the opposite question – when did cars go from being a treasured posession and something to be cherished, to something on a par with your fridge or toaster, just another appliance? For someone like me, who loves cars (all types of cars) with a passion, I find that very hard to understand.

I’m not sure what my car says about me – and it’s not really something I think about too much. Perhaps the fact that I bought a performance Holden because I love cars rather than a low-end BMW because of the image says enough as it is.

You’d have to be a public servant wouldn’t you Terry lol. Money’s a bit tight is it?

Obviously, ‘can’ should’ve read ‘can’t’.

Obviously, ‘can’ should’ve read ‘can’t’.

WOuld any of you drive the 9.9l/11km Dual VVTI Aurion with 6 airbags and which won the Large Car of the Year from both the NRMA and Drive.com.au?

Absolutely, they’re a brilliant car. Then again, I can justify spending $40K on a car – You’ve seen my running costs – Why would I put so much money into a vehicle when I could be putting it into my retirement fund?

😉

oh and el, the Magna has a crappy cabin. But the outer bumpers, square shape and length make it larger than a Commodore. Certainly very difficult to get up a ramp like those at CC.

And yes, the Maganas are oil guzzling and petrol guzzling crud buckets. I tried to convince her to get a hybrid but the is getting a Honda Civic in July after she gets performance pay. But those Astron engines, yuck. They take a litre of oil a wekk if there more than 7 years old. And from the first drive to the last, they are hot running engines. Frequent coolant leaks and overheating troubles. And yet, I see so many of that vintage of Magna on the roads of Canberra still. Anyone reading this who drives an old Magna, say pre 2000… let it die. I know I was hard on the Commodore drivers, but you guys really are low!

oh and el, the Magna has a crappy cabin. But the outer bumpers, square shape and length make it larger than a Commodore. Certainly very difficult to get up a ramp like those at CC.

And yes, the Maganas are oil guzzling and petrol guzzling crud buckets. I tried to convince her to get a hybrid but the is getting a Honda Civic in July after she gets performance pay. But those Astron engines, yuck. They take a litre of oil a wekk if there more than 7 years old. And from the first drive to the last, they are hot running engines. Frequent coolant leaks and overheating troubles. And yet, I see so many of that vintage of Magna on the roads of Canberra still. Anyone reading this who drives an old Magan, say pre 2000… let it die. I know I was hard on the Commodore drivers, but you guys really are low!

el, Hydrogen and 100% ethanol are not there yet. Like any technology they need time to develop. I would be disappointed if anyone ruled it out already. Afterall, if not hydrogen, what does it leave, solar? Ethanol, pricey?

As I understand it, Hydrogen in the vehicle will be in the fairly safe cell form, not a tank. Fuel cells have been used by stunt companies for decades and store fuel ion a form that has proven very safe. But I guess when you speak of storage as in petrol stations, trucks and airports.

Not for a second do I beleive they can start selling hydrogen fuel overnight. In the interim, hydrogen can be sourced using a special filter attachment (according to Honda) connected to your gas main. Not Greenhouse friendly but a good step. Sourcing the hydrogen fuel from filtered mains gas will give time for the vehicles to come onto the market and establish themselves while the current fuel stations and companies shape up for the future. We have grown up on oil. To be a bit poetic. We are children with oild. We will be teenagers with hydrogen sourced from mains gas. And we will finally grow up when we have hydrogen cars and ethanol cars powered with 100% eco-friendly and eco-friendly sourced fuel.

Your figures from the RACV are rubbish.

Oh, and my parts cost less, too.

And there’s no way that an 89 Magna is bigger than either the VE Commodore of BF Falcon. From memory, they’re a similar size to my VN Commodore (maybe slightly narrower). The VE is *much* bigger than that, trust me.

But crappier? Most definitely. The running costs would be horrendous having to pour several litres of oil into it every few days. *That* would be an 80’s era car I could believe costing $270 per week – with the constant rebuilding of their grossly inefficient ‘Astron’ *4 cylinder* engine. I had one of those engines in an old Sigma – which I think everyone would agree is a ‘small car’. It used as much fuel as my fuel injected V8 does now.

Vic, I don’t think I’m king of the road. None of us should.

And why are we comparing Commorodores to Corollas anyway. I only used that comparison to show how much one would save downsizeing their car. If we are going to compare card directly, how about the Commodore, Falcon and Aurion. WOuld any of you drive the 9.9l/11km Dual VVTI Aurion with 6 airbags and which won the Large Car of the Year from both the NRMA and Drive.com.au?

And to respond to your comparison of us Vic. You are not a car enthusisast, just a little boy living out a boy hood fantasy of being king of the road/mountain. I on the otherhand could easily afford a BMW, when the release a Hydrogen one I will get one. Until then, Yaris and Corolla do me fine. Afterall, at the end of the day, it’s just two tons of painted steel to get from A to B. When did cars go from being a form of trasport to being:
– a status symbol
– a fashion accessory
– a tool to make up for ones lack of tool
– a definitive human characteristic (as some would have you believe)

Oh and PS – Hydrogen = Pipe dream. Storage is the problem.

terry,

I don’t need your comments to tell me what a good choice I’m making with my investments in future proofing my life, my wife and our 3 kids. I know I am, and I don’t need your agreement.

I have a people mover for the wife and tin lids. It ain’t a V8. It’s a safe and fuel efficient vehicle. It punts them from A to B. The V8 is my machine of choice.

You agree you don’t understand what puts a smile on my face. That’s the difference between a cardigan wearing beige mobile car owner (you) and a car enthusiast (me).

You are the one who will never understand this train of thoughts; and that of any other V8 owner on here.

So hop back into your tin box, put your latte smile on your face, and pretend you are king of the road. Cos of course, you are, hey champ! You know best!

Seriously, has any one here driven a 1989 Mitsubishi Magna. Those things are tanks, far bigger (and crapier) than a Falcon or Commodore to date. And yet, after picking it up for a friends from a panel beater (shopping trolley to the side doors), I had no trouble getting in the CC carpark, the new one which the Commodores can’t seem to manouvre into. Admit Commodore drivers, you are not a V8 race car driver. You are just living out some misguided, expensive boy hood fantasy at the cost of the environment and fellow road users.

el, The figures are just comparitive. Depending on how we drive, what tyres we use and how often we have our cars services, these figures change. The figures I quoted from the RACV (sorry I should have mentioned this) are:

“calculated as an average, based on costs incurred over the first five years of ownership and 15,000 km annual travel distance.”

But is still give a general idea of the savings of driving a small car.
And like I said to MrM, thanks for the serious response. Not just a rant about queens and the “euro tin pots”. For the record, I drive Japanese tin pots!

Ralph, I’m not saying ethanol is economically good. That’s why I think Hydrogen will be the final solution. But I do believe it is environmentally positive. And I hate to inform you, but there’s a heck of a lot of hydrogen in the atmosphere. The only by product of a hydrogen car is water vapour. But yes, depending on how you sources it, then the production of hydrogen fuel could be a greenhouse emitent. But I would hope atmospheric harvesting and the other methods you described could be perfected over the next century or less.

Vic, the only compliment I have for you is to say good on you for investing in property and looking after your finances. Too many people these days don’t think about the future. But Really, you display a fundamental lack of logic and IQ in saying you prefer a huge but relatively low safety rated Commodore to a 5star euroNCAP rated Yaris. And if the sound of a car (that sounds like a 2stroke lawnmower) is waht puts a smile on your face. I pity you.

MrM, I don’t agree with some of your opinions, but thank you for the snsible and well thought out answer. I can accept different opinions if they are reasonably resented and not like the following from my old friend Vic Bitterman:
“Gimme the safety of my Commodore versus a shitty little euro tin box in a collision any day.”
No doubt a very well presented opinions based on empirical research… not!

. What practical advatanage does a Commodore have over a Corolla for going to the shops for groceries (unless your buying the beef “whole”)?

None, really. Then again, the corolla won’t fit me, my bassist and all our guitars/amps in. At all.

And funnily enough, I didn’t buy a car just to drive to the shops – they’re close enough for me to walk to them. And I HATE doing big, time consuming grocery shops so it’s a complete non-issue.

2. Based on puting the money you save driving a Corolla instead of a Commodore into an investment fund such as Superannuation, how much would you have saved for your retirement?

No idea. Given my retirement is at least 40 years away, I really, really don’t care. Debatable also is how much money I’d be saving, depending on how much I had to pay for the Corolla (see below and your ‘running costs’ nonsense)

3. I’m sure most of you have families. Many of you may have teens learning to drive. Would you rather have them drive a 15 year old used Commodore with an ANCAP safety rating of 1-2 and huge running costs (270+ for 1980s vintage), or a brand new 5 star ANCAP/euroNCAP rated Toyota Yarris that costs just $117 a week?

No. No kids here. I have to ask though – Where do these ridiculous weekly running cost figures come from? I OWN my 18 year old V8 Berlina outright, no finance, no repayments. It costs me $70 to fill the tank, generally fortnightly. About $680/year for registration.

So how does the idea that spending $117 per week on a Yaris that doesn’t do everything I need it to seem like a good idea again?

Let me see:
Initial cost $2500 w/ 12 months rego.
2 tyres @ $175 each (*very good* tyres.) $350
Transmission service $150-ish
70 bucks fuel a fortnight * 26 = $1820
So the total being $4820 / 52 weeks = $92.69

So…just under $93, including the initial purchase price.
Given that I don’t have to re-buy the car every year, that means actual running costs are in the area of $58 a week. Even allowing an annual $1000 repair bill (unlikely, I do my own servicing – $50 every 3 or 4 months, and would need to be a *major* breakdown to cost that much) only brings that figure up to $77 per week.

I think I’ll stick with what I’ve got. It gets 14l/100km regardless of where it’s driven, carries everything I need and is a suitable tow vehicle and that’s fine by me.

Oh, it sounds good and accelerates like a healthy V8 should too.

Well I drive a smallish car.

But I still think they should build the carpark big enough for all cars. People seem to manage to hit the sides even on quite large ramps etc in carparks.

There are probably rules on the size of the spaces, but not on the entrances etc.

The old Target carpark is fine, but the pedestrian entrance from the carpark to the shops is hopeless – single file all the way. Same at Gungahlin – the concrete ramp walkway is only wide enough for one trolley – for a carpark at a supermarket – who designs these useless facilities?

1. What practical advatanage does a Commodore have over a Corolla for going to the shops for groceries (unless your buying the beef “whole”)?

None, unless you’re buying a lot of things at once. But I didn’t buy a Commodore for its shopping-carrying ability.

2. Based on puting the money you save driving a Corolla instead of a Commodore into an investment fund such as Superannuation, how much would you have saved for your retirement?

Probably quite a bit, but the downside is that I’d be driving a Corolla. I might not live long enough to retire, but I can enjoy my Commodore here and now. I used to drive a smaller, slower, less interesting car but decided that life was too short to drive a car that didn’t do it for me, so I bought a car I really liked. If you’re not into cars, your argument makes sense. If you are, then stop driving a boring car and get into something you really love before the oil runs out or some overzealous pollie bans driving.

3. I’m sure most of you have families. Many of you may have teens learning to drive. Would you rather have them drive a 15 year old used Commodore with an ANCAP safety rating of 1-2 and huge running costs (270+ for 1980s vintage), or a brand new 5 star ANCAP/euroNCAP rated Toyota Yarris that costs just $117 a week?

If I was buying a car for my kids, and I had the price of a new Yaris to spend, then yes, I’d probably buy them one of those. But my kids are nowhere near driving age.

Another meathead Holden V8 driver here – 04 VY2 SS manual. It’s about to come off lease and be replaced, most likely with a VE SSV.

To answer our newly-outed homosexual hairdresser Terry’s pop quiz :

1. Yes, give me the V8. The sound of the exhaust burbling and the engine roar when I give it a welly full brings the biggest smile to my face. Small trip, big trip, don’t care.

2. I invest in property and have quite a few. My return is higher than any super fund. So I couldn’t care less. Besides, I earn a shit load a money, these days I don’t know what to spend it all on. Even if fuel was at $10 a litre, I can afford a full tank each week ($750) and not even wince a smidge. That’s only a couple of hours salary to me.

3. Gimme the safety of my Commodore versus a shitty little euro tin box in a collision any day.

And here’s a question back for you, terry :

1. Why the fuck do you care what we drive? You complain we don’t understand. Nay, you are the one who is not a car enthusiast, so you will never understand. Why don’t you go piss off to poofville, where you and your fellow black skivvy wearers can drive your shitty little euro crap where nothing but roses and jonquils come out the exhaust.

my bicycle doesn’t use much more petrol than a sandwich or two for its pedaller…

(and my peugeot 307 does about 7 – 7.5l/100km on the melbourne trip. and does it in a single tank so plausibly – and actually, twice – in a single non-stop sitting. and it gets into the natty little car park in town right nice, ta)

You are sanctimonious.

Firstly, ethanol is only economic because it receives government subsidies just about everywhere it is produced. If it is not produced from waste products, it is a net greenhouse emitter.

Hydrogen is also a net greenhouse emitter unless it is produced from either geothermal energy, hydro, or nuclear.

Oh by the way, you must also factor in the cars operating costs. Not just petrol. I have the following from the RACV:

(Make) (Detail) (Total Costs $/week)
————————————————–
Holden Commodore | 3.6L 4dr Auto | $217.36
————————————————-
Ford Falcon | 4.0L 4dr Auto | $217.40
————————————————-
Toyota Corolla | 1.8L 4dr Auto | $145
————————————————-
Holden Astra | 1.8L 5dr Auto | $155
————————————————-

As you can see from a table. Smaller cars save you a lot of money per week. They offer all the power one could want to easily go 140km/h on the highway without strain on the engine and provide much the same level of comfort, handling and ride.

Now let me ask you Commodore and Falcon people some things. Because it is painfully obvious that the environmental facet of this argument is unable to penetrate your thick skulls.

1. What practical advatanage does a Commodore have over a Corolla for going to the shops for groceries (unless your buying the beef “whole”)?
2. Based on puting the money you save driving a Corolla instead of a Commodore into an investment fund such as Superannuation, how much would you have saved for your retirement?
3. I’m sure most of you have families. Many of you may have teens learning to drive. Would you rather have them drive a 15 year old used Commodore with an ANCAP safety rating of 1-2 and huge running costs (270+ for 1980s vintage), or a brand new 5 star ANCAP/euroNCAP rated Toyota Yarris that costs just $117 a week?

I agree with you Johnboy. Hybrids are not the way. The Prius and various others are just half arsed efforts. As for all ellectric cars, you make a good point. The lithium Ion batteries are heavy and contain toxic materials. And look at Dell Laptops, they are no safer than Hydrogen fuel cells. Furthermore, what good is an ellectric car if the charging powers is from coal and gas.

To make ellectric cars really environmentally sustainable, they need to use the far more eco-friendly lithium-polymer batteries (far safer too). But the power that charges those cars needs to be clean. By puting a solar panel on your home, you can charge a lithium-polymer array of batteries in your roof space, and use the stored power to charge your car. Any surplus power not used for the car can feed into the grid, with a rebate from ACTEW ofcourse.

But longterm, cars powered by pure Ethanol or Hydrogen must be the solution. In overseas testing, both are proving to be as safe and reliable as current fuels.

Oh, and when they bring out a V8 (or whatever the equivalent will be) in a Hydrogen engine design for the Commodore, you can tear up the road all you like, so long as there is only water vapour and not carbon-monoxide coming out of your tail pipe.

As I said. I am not against Commodores, only their fuel efficiency and the exhaust they produce.

I would, however, take it over a V8 RWD behemoth for my regular drive across the Brindies to Tumut

I have done that way too many times in a FWD laser hatch – was a hoot 🙂

First time I did it – I zigged coming home instead of zagging – and ended up coming home cooma way not Gundagai way – bloody idiot 🙂

But it’s not the size of the spaces, they are fine. It’s the size of the various access ramps etc that are the problem.

My point remains that it’s stupid not to consider the size of Australia’s best selling car and others like it (Falcon, Camry and 380 are all popular and none of those are small either) when designing a carpark that you might actually like people to come and park in.

Pandy – Pretty sure my little ford laser can go 0-100 in about 13seconds…

As for the carpark issue.. Perhaps they designed it to fit more carparks in.. After all the City does have a serious carpark shortage! I say close carparks one at a time and build them up a few levels.. If the large cars dont fit.. Learn to catch a bus.

Just for interest on the fuel consumption question: my 6.0 litre V8, 6 speed manual Commodore does 12-13l/100km around Canberra, and anywhere between 9.5 and 10.5l/100km on the freeway to Sydney. On a country road trip, I’d be looking at about 10.5-11l/100km. Not at all bad given the size and performance that it has.

I have no idea how much my car consumes. I fill it irregularly (gaps of more than two weeks – sometimes an entire month).

Taking my car off the road won’t change the atmosphere in any measurable way.

Taking entire fleets of cars may, but lets see howard get that one past the voters.

c’mon JB, you’re assuming that people can see past a marketing ‘green’ logo.

Has anybody done a proper analysis of fossil fuel usage to generate the electricty used in electric/hybrid cars vs just using straight petrol ?

Seriously, what difference does it make if you’re getting 8L/100 or 12L/100 ? Unless you’re racking up 200km every day (roughly $70-$80 a week) you’re not really going to notice the additional fuel expenditure…

Buying an electric car can still be a step in the right direction.

Which bloody direction?

The direction where we emit more carbon dioxide into the air AND drive around on a tonne of toxic high explosive surrounded by the flimsiest possible shell?

Buying an electric car can still be a step in the right direction.
If all of us did it, then it would be seen as a viable industry and huge amounts of R+D would pour into it, thus improving the cars and their sustainability.

Not really surprising – there’s inherently more losses in a 4WD drivetrain than RWD, and if it’s an auto that will make it slightly worse again. My 6-speed Liberty with the same H6 engine returned about 8L/100k on the Canberra-Lismore drive.

Not really Ive had a few Subaru’s in the past and the little boxer can be quiet a thirsty beast be it H6 or flat 4. Mind you my last one (2 door STI) had over 450 plus hp and drank fuel like a big block V8 thanks to a GT30 garret turbo lol

I’ve never been overly excited with the fuel consumption of the Outback.

I would, however, take it over a V8 RWD behemoth for my regular drive across the Brindies to Tumut, or via Shannons Flat to Adaminaby.

I’ve driven my Berlina to Brisbane and back from Canberra, and achieved an average of 8.7l/100km for the trip up. This included plenty of overtaking, and cruising at 120km/h plus on the long straight sections out past Narrabri.

It’s worth noting that a good driver can generally beat the cruise control for fuel consumption figures, as the human foot can provide more accurate and gently throttle input.

Does anyone else find it interesting that a 4WD vehicle with an engine just over half the size of mine (3.0 vs 5.7) used more fuel on a country run?

There is value in a step in the right direction

Only if it’s actually a step in the right direction, until we get carbon pricing you can drive your electric car and feel smug when what you’re actually doing is pumping out MORE pollution and driving a very lightly built car filled with very heavy batteries filled with extremely toxic chemicals.

Similarly most new diesels get comparative fuel economy to hybrids with a much simpler engine (read emitted less co2 to build) and no battery replacement/disposal issues. But without carbon pricing you could actually be doing more damage while trying to get that “I’m doing something” warm inner glow.

and still the 70% of emissions from industry roll on, this time building gewgaws for “home efficiency” to increase the feeling that we’re doing something, and China throws up another 100 illegal coal fired stations wiping out the whole of your savings hundreds of times over.

No carbon tax you’re just urinating on the bushfire when you could be gathering your possessions.

Ok, i’ll concede that with all the variables adjusted in the OP’s favour, it’s possible to achieve ‘something like’ the claimed figures.

Incidentally, last Christmas the wife and I drove to Brisbane and back in our 2005 Subaru Outback 3.0L (H6).

The ‘Fuel consumption (ADR81/01) Combined’ manufacturer claim for this vehicle is 11.0 l/100km.

Given the cost of fuel, I decided to set myself the challenge of achieving the lowest possible fuel consumption, while travelling at the posted speed limits.

I used cruise control as much as possible, and avoided heavy acceleration wherever possible. This meant slow and steady starts from standing stops etc.

On the way up, we got exactly 10 l/100 km. On the way back we achieved 10.2 l/100 km, most likely due to the 1 day stop in Sydney with a fair bit of city driving.

These figures were a bit higher than anticipated, but well within the meaty part of the bell curve of expectations.

“I didn’t say anything about cherry-picking the route, or driving at an unrealistic speed.”

Oh, how convenient!!

The point being made here is that larger cars use very little additional fuel compared to small/medium cars on trips.

In the original discussion you arrived at the figure of 6.8 l/100km, based on 37.5 litres of fuel. Let’s say the fuel gauge is approximate only, and they used perhaps 45 litres (just over half a tank). The number is then 8.2 l/100km, very achieveable.

It should be noted here (bugger, can’t find the link), that during a Holden drive day a manual Commodore SV6 returned fuel consumption of 7.2l/100km on a B Grade NSW highway, while keeping up with traffic.

Once these things get moving, the low rev engine torque means they easily maintain speed on very small throttle openings.

I didn’t say anything about cherry-picking the route, or driving at an unrealistic speed.

The original poster claimed Canberra to Sydney Airport and back, which would involve a bit of stop and start driving both within Canberra and around the Airport.

I also doubt they travelled at 80 km/h. I suspect the speed would’ve been more like 110-120 km/h.

“If you can get a Commodore to achieve anywhere close to 6.82 l/100km with five people on board, and a boot full of luggage, i’ll buy you a new Commodore. “

If your serious then start saving. You haven’t put any parameters in your offer. To achieve this would be EASY:
1) Select a new 6 cyl commodore.
2) Inflate all tyres to 38psi.
3) Fill with fuel.
4) Fill with 5 people, including driver, and say 50 kg luggage.
5) I’ll select the Goulburn to Campbelltown section of the Hume Hwy.
6) I’ll drive at about 80km/h, to keep the revs down below 1500rpm.

Using this methodology I would likely beat your target.

The point here is that people have a lot of preconceived ideas about cars and fuel use, and with modern technology and tuning, many such ideas simply aren’t true.

Just to address a couple of Terry’s points:

I drove my Commodore to the shops because it’s the only car I own – pretty simple argument right there. I’m not going to buy a small car just for going to the shops with because it doesn’t make financial sense, and while I would normally go to Civic by bus, on Saturday, I didn’t. And there was no particular reason for that, I just didn’t 🙂

I don’t complain when it costs me $90 to fill my Commodore, because I think I get my money’s worth. People who drive boring cars like the Yaris and Corolla are wasting petrol – I enjoy every bit that I use.

Having said that, I’m not totally without a conscience – my car is signed up with Greenfleet, so trees get planted to offset my emissions. This, in fact, makes my 6 litre V8 Commodore more ‘green’ than a smaller car with no emissions offsets.

Yes, I might – might – be able to find a smaller car with a smaller engine that can still fit me and my family. Maybe. In fact, I enjoy small cars and owned a couple before the Commodore. But, as a car guy, I also want to own something that ‘does it for me’ as well as meeting my actual car needs which is why I bought what I did.

There is value in a step in the right direction, via investing in smaller cars or alternative power sources.
Just doing nothing, because someone somewhere can think of an argument against it, is not the way to progress.

So terry, you want to burn coal hundreds of kilometres away, lose most of that power in heat, use what’s left boil water to spin a turbine and make electricity. Lose most of that in transmission, lose most of charging a battery.

That’s bloody brilliant for the planet.

Another of those false economies you’re incapable of understanding.

commodore ss’s are for people who let gm decide they are cool.

its essentially still a berlina.

although i have got a 4spd auto from a commodore in the stanley steamer (for the overdrive) mainly to aid highway fuel consumption.

hit the hume, slide into overdrive, watch the tacho needle drop…

i detest parking in multi-storey carparks – mainly because of the size of the parking spaces. i dont want my doors dinged up.

although i usually catch the bus into civic on the weekends so i can get sauced up.

the carpark next to the afp hq/courts has decent sized spaces.

Terry, can you do 0-100 in 13.5 secs? No? thats why I want a V8!

Also I have been in a big accident in a Commodore. I survived. I doubt that would have been the case in a Yaris 5 stars or not.

All this shows is that you have truly no idea about fuel consumption and larger cars

If you can get a Commodore to achieve anywhere close to 6.82 l/100km with five people on board, and a boot full of luggage, i’ll buy you a new Commodore.

“WHY WOULD WE?”

Because we can! and its fun lol.
And you can believe all this climate change crap and Al Gore’s hysterical propaganda if you want but the jury is still out on that one with regards to human C02 causing global warming.

Um your forgetting a few small little facts about European cars. The general trend has been larger and faster cars coming out of Europe over the last few years. Just have a look at whats available at Mercedes Benz these days 6.3lt 500+ hp V8s and 5.5lt supercharged V8’s also twin turbo V12’s.

The latest BMW M3 is coming out in 4 litre V8 up from 3.2 litre 6 in the previous model.

Also Europe is the sports car capital of the world there are more high powered sports cars per km then anywhere else.

Granted there are a lot of small cars in Europe bu thats demographics for you its much easier driving driving a small Smart or Fiat type car in places like Marseille.

All these cars and the aussie V8 cars coming out all pass and better govt emission targets and one thing you have to take into account is engine efficiency.
In terms of Kw per litre engine size some of these engines would be more efficient then a Yaris engine and put out less emissions per litre to.

Diesel in Europe is generally heavily subsidized as well thats one of the main reasons it is more popular over there. Take France for example its much cheaper buying Diesel at the pump then petrol mainly because of the strong transport trucking Unions over there.

V8 Utes?? They are a great car very handy for various things and also good value for money. You can get a nice 6lt Chev powered one and just out of the US in the new Corvette is the latest small block Chev 7.0 litre LS7 V8. So there are plans to possibly bring this V8 to aussie soon as well.

I don’t care what type of cars people drive Ive owned various models my self with no real brand loyalty. I just like interesting cars mainly.

The hydrogen and fuel cell powered cars are a long way off especially hydrogen because the infrastructure its just not there and it will cost many many billions to put this in place. So we will have petrol powered cars for a long time to come and unless the Oil price reach $200 a barrel this isn’t going to change.

Can any of you meat headed Holden fans provide a sensible answer to the following two questions (regarding statements made by contributers on this thread), that can convince any one with an IQ of more… well more than 50:

1. Why do real men drive utes?
2. Why do real men drives commodores?

“It’s a free country, and if I choose to drive a 320 horsepower car to the shops, that’s my business.”
Yes VYBrelina…., it is a free country. And we have for a decades now used our right to drive what ever petrol guzzling monster we want. But technology and the environment are changing. Cars account for a substantial amount of the Greenhouse gasses we pump into the atmosphere. The Europeans see it. The Amercians see it and have created cars, even high powered sports cars, that can run for 500km on battery power. European cars still use fossil fuels for the most part, but use the more efficient diesel to milk 1,000km out of a single tank. But they are also developing Hydrogen and electrical powered cars.

I’m not really saying we shouldn’t drive such big, petrol hugry cars. I’m trying to say that with todays technology and knowledge, WHY WOULD WE?

“The trip to Sydney airport and back is approx. 550 kilometres. You claim to have done this trip using less than 37.5 litres of petrol, with a standard Commodore tank being 75 litres.

This would require you to achieve 6.82 litres per 100 kilometres fuel economy.

A V6 Commodore runs to 11 litres per 100 km.

It’s time to take your hand off it. “

All this shows is that you have truly no idea about fuel consumption and larger cars. My V8 Berlina easily achieves 8 l/100km on the trip from Canberra to Sydney, because at the speed limit the engine is ticking over at less than 2000rpm. Also, much of the trip is downhill.

Modern V8s, especially Chev engined Holdens, can return remarkable figures on the open road. Around town, not so good.

It’s also worth remebering that the ‘official’ figure is simply a value returned from running the vehicle at a variety of engine speeds on a dyno in a lab (according to a standardised testing procedure).

The standard Commodore’s official figure is 11 l/100km or so, but on an easy trip it should return under 8l/100km no trouble at all.

Around town I routinely use 13-14 l/100km. Strill less than many smaller engined SUVs, and I don’t spare the horses. I spend about $100 per tank filling it (with 98 octane Premium, of course). I fill up every 3 or 4 weeks, and don’t care about the cost. After all, being my ‘work’ vehicle, I get to tax deduct the fuel cost anyway. It’s a free country, and if I choose to drive a 320 horsepower car to the shops, that’s my business. Giddy up!

maybe you should just drive better, then your car would fit. Canberrans get their panties in a little twist if they can’t drive in their own lane, get over yourself and your ugly car.

Lovely to see things degenerating here, thanks to our Manuka-livin’ latte-sippin’ eco-friendly mate terry. Love your work mate, no, really, I do. *hugs*

Now, where was I?

Ah yes. Real men drive utes. Unless, like me, your sperm is so powerful that you produce superhuman progeny thereby forcing you to get a sedan instead. With a requisite amount of pining, nay, deeply held regret, about the ute since departed. There endeth the sermon – away!!

There you go again, passing judgement on others. But then again, you do know everything, don’t you?

I suggest you move to Europe (you sound French).

No johnboy, only two cars. A yaris (or similar) for getting to work, and a larger car such as a Civic or Aurion to get the kids to school (if they can’t walk there) and for longer drives (such as holidays).

I don’t condemn people who use Commodores simply because they use Commodores. Indeed many tradespeople, professionals and even personal users need a large car to carry luggage and equipment. But for people who don’t need the extra capacity, it is simply ridiculous to drive such a large car. And I might add, too many people own a smaller car, but use the larger car just to go to the local shops for a carton of milk, even if they have a smaller car. Seriously, if you need a big car and a huge petrol bill to feel big and look big, you people must have some real insecurities. Look at Europe, a 3-4 star ANCAP rate beast would impress no one and would be a poor seller. A petrol efficent, 5star euroNCAP rated car like Yaris, would be a winner… and IS a winner!

I like under Terry’s way of thinking that we’d need to have several cars to suit each occasion.

Now there’s a carbon saving!

I drive a Honda Civic. I used to drive a Camry. Before that I had a Holden Belmont 69 wagon with a V8 engine. I used to think I was pretty manly, but until I was enlightened by the RiotAct, I didnt know that there was a correlation between annual petrol expenditure manliness. Now I am really worried that I left my manliness in the Belmont when it finally went to the wreckers. Should I take a stand and get a Hummer for my next car, or admit defeat and Yaris up???

Obviously car park designers drive Barina type cars and have no consideration, only contempt for drivers of anything larger.

Corolla, Yaris, Echo etc are sheilas’ cars.

Hmm, I think Commodore’s are awful suburban cars but there is no way I would drive a bitch mobile like a corolla or a yaris, or even worse a bloody toyota echo, seriously I’d rather catch the bus. (ps woman here so don’t accuse me of being sexist).

Peugeot claims around 4.5 5 l/100kms for their TDI wagons. They have the space to do that trip.

Try doing that in your Yaris

The Yaris, with fuel economy figures of 6.1 litres/100km, would have a shot at your claimed figures. The luggage would be a stretch, but there is always roof-racks.

BTW drove 4 passengers and their luggage to the Sydney Airport last week and back and used less than half a tank

The trip to Sydney airport and back is approx. 550 kilometres. You claim to have done this trip using less than 37.5 litres of petrol, with a standard Commodore tank being 75 litres.

This would require you to achieve 6.82 litres per 100 kilometres fuel economy.

A V6 Commodore runs to 11 litres per 100 km.

It’s time to take your hand off it.

I’ll stick with my big red motorcycle. Costs $15-20 per week, free parking all over town and will exceed every damn speed limit in second gear(if I ever felt socially irresponsible). Carry a spare helmet and you meet the nicest people.

Nice trolling Terry. I particularly like the ‘design floors’ line.

As to car choice – Toyota don’t make a large, powerful station wagon to carry my gear in. If they did, I’d seriously consider buying one. So for now I’ll stick with the V8 Berlina wagon, and not complain about fuel prices, until it reaches, I dunno, $3 a litre. Enjoy your $80/week running costs, mine costs $75 to fill up every fortnight or so.

I cant get a Yaris or a Corolla as I am not a) homo or b) old lady, so guess Ill stick with my Commodore despite having to squeeze it into car spaces occasionally. BTW drove 4 passengers and their luggage to the Sydney Airport last week and back and used less than half a tank ! Try doing that in your Yaris! PS Non homophobic lady driver

The other side of that free society is that private businesses are free to build carparks to whatever size they like – and if it doesn’t happen to fit your oversized behemouth, well, hey, that’s freedom for you!

In case it has passed you Terry, we live in a free society. Some people actually like big cars. So get off your high horse and stop dictating to the masses what you think is best for them.

Yaris are for pussy whipped men. SS Comodes are for the boys at heart not a boring fart.

But seriously, the SS around Canberra has better mileage than many SUVs especially that Subs and Mazdas.

Yeah but jeese what a boring car the Yaris and Corolla are. For enthusiasts out there its not just about getting from A to B. And fuel economy who cares, aussie fuel is still cheap as chips compared to some other places I frequent. When it gets to $10 a litre I might be a bit more concerned.

Oh, one more thing. What are you people doing driving petrol guzzling, tanks like Commodores to the shops for. Seriously, I see stories on A Current Affair with these people complaining about paying 90 bucks to fill up their SS, and there is only one occupent in the Vehicle… the driver. Try an Aurion, or a Corolla or a Yaris. Cheap to run, class leading safety and comparable performance. That’s why this week:

TOYOTA OVERTOOK GENERAL MOTORS (and Holden) TO BE THE WORLDS NUMBER ONE BEST SEELING CAR MAKER!!!

Or if you want something cheaper, get a Getz. Gets you from A to B and costs peanuts to fill up.

Now if you’ll excuse me, i’m going to fill up my Yaris, but I’ve got to move the Corolla first.

P.S. 80 bucks fills up both my Yaris and Corolla in one week! Enjoy your Commodores

P.P.S. To be fair, Commodores are actually pretty good cars, except for the size and fuel economy ad enginces and build quality (3 recalls in 5 months). But only because a far worse car make exists…. are there any Falcon drivers here?

Speaking of design floors in the Canberra Centre. Did anyone notice the hastily laid pieces of carpet, slightly damp… and the wet floors signs in the new part yesterday when it was raining. Oh yeah, and the drips from the rather dodgy skylight.

More heavy rain like that and any fish still alive in the fish shop downstairs might have a second chance at freedom.

It’s a tight carpark, but you’ll find car parks like that all over Europe. Either way, not what we’re used to… maybe QIC (owners of the CC) have a special deal with ACT’s panel beaters *nudge*

Yep, I noticed the same thing. Scratched a 19″ VE SS Commodore rim the other day (which wouldn’t have upset me too much except the car WASN’T MINE). Equally stupid is the spot on Ballumbir Street it left hand turn dumps you out into traffic at: Maybe a metre and a half after a set of busy traffic lights? Obviously they don’t have any problems with causing damage to cars, whether it be from their badly-designed carpark or from accidents with other vehicles.