Landlords need to move with the times - their tenants have had to

Greg Kotvojs I had a tenant that did not pay rent for several months because according to him, he could not afford to pay because his wife spent it on cosmetic surgery. This self entitlement is just exacerbated by the long court legal process. After a while at considerable expense to us luckily they moved on and we avoided further legal action. After that nightmare we sold the property and reinvested our money elsewhere, it was not worth the stress.

Greg Kotvojs Sounds like your issue is with the real estate

Birna Ursidae yes but they didn’t lock 3 dogs inside either

Greg Kotvojs But they said the bond would cover it and gave them the all clear. I would be chasing the real estate agency.

Birna Ursidae thankyou but its not worth it. Will end up more upset with the tenant, agent and others . I sent them 2 letters after the incident but taking them to court as well…… i have my health to look after and sometimes best to cut your losses

Tracy-leigh Boyd tenants can really supply that in the home though if its not available via electric heaters and portable air-conditioning units. Home owners don’t necessarily have those things or can afford to get them fixed straight away.

Tracy-leigh Boyd heating is reqiured by law, for some reason aircon isn’t. (Atleast in vic)

Ashleigh Latimore agreed. I wouldn’t buy a flat packed dog box that had been assembled in Canberra. This place has to have the worst building standards for the price in the country!

Ashleigh Latimore good, piss off

Jacqueline, if renters were able to buy, they would not be renting. If landlords sell out, there will be less rentals, hence higher rents.

Alexander, how much do you think prices would fall? 50%? Don’t be funny. Also many people are continuously moving in Canberra. They would still be all bought.

Jacqueline Ladybear Hyde no that won’t happen….. Most houses are selling for extremely high prices now and there are many cashed up buyers ( some with inheritance from overseas parents ) they will definitely outbid the guy who planned to buy instead of rent just because few more houses become available….

Keep dreaming.

Hrvoje exactly.

Alex Elliott
Govt regulation is why I got out of rental market.
Tenants stopping rental payments, and nothing that can be done about it without a financial outlay and uncertain outcome.
And what many do not realise, is that almost $200 of every weeks rent goes straight to govt in form of rates and land tax!

Landlords will be able to terminate a tenancy if the tenant breaches the tenancy agreement.

Joel Dignam
Not so easy

Margaret Dzieciol well it probably shouldn’t be easy to kick someone out of their home tbh. But these changes certainly make it no harder.

Joel Dignam – Sorry, too easy to be kicked out of who’s home? The tenant is just a paying guest, the landlord is the owner. Seems a difficult concept for some to grasp. Do you own an Uber when you call it? No. Is it now your car? No. How’s about a hotel room?

Peter Ball sounds like you may be part of the problem. Landlords are dealing with human beings, not shipping containers or boxes. Housing is a human right.

If private landlords don’t want to deal with regulation that restricts their rights to throw people out on the street without just cause then maybe they (and you?) should invest their money in a different kind of asset.

Peter Ball in no sense is the tenant “just” a paying guest. In a legal sense they are a tenant. In a moral sense, it’s their home.

So lots of landlords will just let their homes sit empty rather than rent them will they? Or knock the houses down and plow the land with salt?

Most likely if renting is too hard for the poor would be landlords they’ll sell the home so the net effect on housing supply will be precisely zero.

Joel Dignam – Tenants either own it, or they don’t Joel. So which is it? If you expect a private landlord to put the well being of their tenants first & foremost, before profit or their family’s personal gain. Then I think you’re getting private investors confused with Gov owned public housing, or maybe your parents. Like it or not, private investment properties are exactly the same as any other investment medium. Just an Investment, not an emotional endeavour. But hey, if you wanna shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for one in a rising interest rate environment, & let your tenants totally run the show, then feel free. 👍 Sure they’ll be plenty of takers.

I like to imagine Peter owns shares in various companies and routinely turns up to their local branches to berate the customers about how they shouldn’t expect to be treated like a person and should just buy the company if they want to express an opinion on how it runs.

Margaret Dzieciol not of every rent, that $200, what is the rental amount it comes from per week?

Alex Elliott so what are they going to do if they don’t rent them out? Bet they’ll be able to pay their mortgage 😂

Alexander Geoffery Doran – The landlord owns it, the tenant doesn’t. Even after renting it for 20 years. You may not like this reality, but a reality it remains. And no amount of holding your breath & stamping your feet will ever change this. But hey, if you wanna pretend you actually own the property, rather than just renting it, then knock yourself out. No cost to dream. Just don’t try & sell it. 🤣 Otherwise, that could be a very harsh reality check for you.

Lee Oh – Nope, I’m just another person who works for a living, for a boss. I do have shares in companies via Super though, probably just like yourself. Not really sure what the relevance of all this is? But hey, if it suits your agenda to “imagine” my position to be otherwise, 🤣 then knock yourself out. 👍

Alex Elliott it’s already happening. Being in the industry we are seeing it. Landlords are selling up in droves with no new investors coming in. It’s a tough time for renters now, and with everything else going up on top of it. The more Government overreach their role the worse it’s getting for people.

Alexander Geoffery Doran I’ve seen plenty of landlords who aren’t willing to abide by their legal obligations in a tenancy agreement, but it is a new level to suggest that the tenancy agreement doesn’t even impose obligations on the landlords!

Dianne Mendoza yes, initially that’s true. However if prices are driven down as a result, then there will be fewer people renting because more first home buyers will be able to purchase houses. This isn’t a solution though. Landlords are investors and we shouldn’t be relying on them to provide housing to people on low income. The government needs to commit to building social housing.

Peter Ball if you rent a house it is your home while you are there . Let’s not forget that the tenants pay for most of the landlords mortgage.

Amanda Everitt – How could you possibly know what percentage of the landlord’s mortgage a tenant pays? Some don’t even have mortgages.
Tenants simply pay their rent so they don’t have to live on the street. They could effectively live their for 20 years, and still own absolutely no part of that property. Long after any loans have been repaid. Do you think that once the property is debt free that maybe the landlord should just let people live there for nothing maybe? Out of the goodness of their heart? Again like many people, I think you’re getting private investors confused with family or government.

Peter Ball a lot of the time the money a tenant pays in rent is going towards paying off a mortgage. Obviously not in every situation. And of course nobody thinks landlords should let people stay there for free. Ridiculous comment.
Nobody is saying the tenant ‘owns’ any part of the house . But it IS their home while they live there . Responding to your comment that seemed to suggest tenants cannot think of the house they rent as their home . That is different to owning it . Of course they don’t own it . But it is their home and in return the landlord often has someone paying a large portion of the mortgage. Some tenants are terrible and don’t deserve a home, but most are good people, who look after it and pay alot of money that the landlord benefits from .

Amanda Everitt – yes the landlord benefits from the tenant paying rent. And the tenant benefits by having somewhere to live, if they can’t afford to buy their own property. It’s a reciprocal and mutually beneficial relationship. As it should be.

Peter Jovanovic there will be short term issues with rental shortages but in the long run, it will probably work out to be a net positive.

Joel Dignam Moral sense? Tenants have a financial obligation to pay and look after the property. If they don’t, Tenants should get out. They are obviously lacking morals.

Amanda Everitt I completely agree that it is a tenants home. Completely. And the landlord owes a good standard of living. But whether it contributes to a mortgage is irrelevant and of no one else’s business. Most properties runs a loss but rely on capital growth (which will result in a big tax bill).
No one asks the small business owner where the money they are paying is going to…why do we feel it’s OK to questiona landlord? As a renter, you pay for a product…you are entitled to the product as agreed in the contract… you have no business where the rent money goes.

Alex Burleigh thank god, housing as an investment vehicle is economically stagnant and morally dubious.

Jay Kay how is it morally dubious? When I was younger, I was not in a position, nor had the desire to own a property. Renting worked well for me. We now rent out a house to younger people who aren’t ready to buy. What do you suggest as a better system?

Warwick Bradly we are in a system where we reward the unproductive ownership of things more than we reward the productive act of providing labour. Our entire economic system is becoming one of unsustainable rent seeking, and in regards to housing, one of generating profit from essential need, and is thus morally dubious.

Jay Kay There’s more work now than ever before. It’s really hard to find people to fill positions, especially if skills are needed. Not sure how that relates to rental properties. Landlord/tenant arrangements have existed forever.

Warwick Bradly Reread what I said, it is that we reward ownership of assets more than we reward the provision of labour.

Jay Kay It sounds more like you have a chip on your shoulder. In Australia, we reward labour handsomely and there’s an excess of jobs. There’s a shortage of houses – especially rental houses. We need to make it more conducive for landlords. One easy fix to help on the supply side is to not allow non-australian citizens to purchase property.

Warwick Bradly rent-seeking is bad for capitalism, as it reduces the flow of capital in society. I am more than happy to see people invest in the stock market rather than believing they are entitled to other people’s hard-earned cash in exchange for housing (which is a human right).

Emilia Roberts That’s such a weird attitude. It’s a market. People have a need to rent and not buy for all manner of reasons. Certainly younger people starting out often don’t have the desire to commit to a big investment (I was one of those people once), others are only living in a place short term or have separated or whatever. Others own a property they choose to rent out. This fills a need and is a market.

You could say all investment in non-productive things is bad for capitalism, but what are you going to do, ban people from buying paintings, jewellery, motor vehicles.

I just don’t understand your logic at all.

Warwick Bradly you don’t, because you don’t understand economics. Being a landlord is not “investing” in an economically beneficial sense because it is not an enterprise that generates jobs and money. It is literally feudal behaviour. The money stagnates in one tier of society and doesn’t flow through to other groups. Go read Adam Smith. 🙂

Emilia Roberts it is a human right to help others but you laughed at the guy above for something very important.. China would be the place for you.

Emilia Roberts not everything is about pure economics. The rental market fulfills a fundamental function in our society. What do you propose as a workable alternative?

Warwick Landlordism actually doesn’t fulfil the role you are claiming it does, hence the increase in homelessness amongst working families.And nor should landlords be expected to provide affordable housing, sometimes to risky tenants. More social housing is the solution.

Emilia Roberts so your solution is the government provide housing for a huge percentage of people? The government is also going to be competing in this market of short supply and high demand and now all taxpayers will be wearing the cost.

I’ve seen no evidence the govt does this any better than the market.

Warwick Bradly taxpayers are already wearing the cost of landlordism through obscene tax handouts for negative gearing. I’d rather my tax money went to building housing and supporting my community than subsidisng poor investment choices of entitled “investors” who believe taxpayers should underwrite their own personal risk.

Emilia Roberts 90% of people aren’t eligible for social housing.

Emilia Roberts recently negative hearing has been next to zero because interest rates are low. Another way to look at it is the lower tax is helping to provide rental properties.

It’s also helping average people build a nest egg, so the govt doesn’t have to support them when they stop working.

Alex Burleigh that’s right, which is why supply needs to be increased so people on low incomes are eligible too. There are solutions, we just need the will. A staggering $13 billion was paid out in negative gearing to landlords in 2020. Imagine what sort of stable social housing could have been built with that instead.

Warwick Bradly 13 billion of OUR money per year is subsidisng the futire income of wealthy retirees. All of this is built on the collective incomes of Australians, but the benefits only go to those who are landlords. It’s market distortion at its worst.

Emilia Roberts don’t forget it’s not paid out, it’s just tax foregone based on loss made by landlord. If you removed neg gearing, it may actually hurt those most vulnerable in the housing market. The problem is supply.

Governments inefficiently running more rental properties won’t fix supply.

Emilia Roberts the govt will get that back and more in not having to support those retirees as they live off that nest egg and then often use it to buy a place in aged care rather than burden govt systems.

Warwick Bradly So is sales a supply and demand situation, there is so much government intervention in property, so if investors go away from property because of government regulations then ther would be a higher number of renters able to buy which would remove the numbers that need to rent. The current system seems to limit supply of properties in general.

Warwick Bradly https://progressandpoverty.substack.com/p/singapore-economic-prosperity-through?r=531z1&utm_campaign=post&utm_source=Singapore%3A%20Economic%20Prosperity%20through%20Innovative%20Land%20Policy&utm_medium=ios&s=r

Loonce our plans too! Means we also have access when we visit the city 😀 less issues too.

Loonce Yu It’ll get enforced against sooner or later as AirBNB’s in most location already fall afoul of zoning.

Jay Kay I’ll doubt it in the ACT.

Loonce Yu If anything its most likely to be enforced in the ACT before other states.

Richard thats what we’ll be doing.

Kate Allard can’t say I blame you better to invest in something else.

Richard, and then they will put a clamp on that.
They need to get out of their comfortable positions.

Kerri Anne Lucking “Invest in something else” for most investors 50-100% of the capital investment is being paid off by rent which is a bloody very good deal, especially when you consider the benefits of negative gearing and fairly modest CGTs.

Clare yep hence why landlords want new tenants so they can get current market value for their property. Costs keep rising to have a property. Where’s the cap on those?

Any investment is not without risk! If it’s not making money it’s a bad investment.

Clare Hyden no – it’s time to change the power imbalance.

Emilie Patteson the power should always be the one on the title abs who carries the responsibilities of mortgage, rates,water repairs etc etc 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Rosemary Macmillan yes but housing is a human right

Emilie Patteson not at the cost of the person with the mortgage

That’s not what I’m saying, and that not what this reform is about. It’s about holding landlords to account to maintain their properties and to give tenants a bit more security and dignity. The standard of rental properties in Canberra can be pretty poor, and it’s not acceptable to charge such astronomical prices for substandard housing.

Emilie Patteson If you wanted a cheap property to rent you expected a lower standard of property. It currently looks like no more cheap rentals for people in Canberra.
A bit like with pets, you used to paid a bit more to have a pet. Know everyone pays extra in rent if they have a pet or not as landlords basically can’t say no.

Geoffrey Bell there aren’t cheap properties to rent in Canberra. I’m not saying they should be cheap. But they absolutely need to be held at a higher standard to be liveable and maintenance attended to in legal timeframes, because that is what tenants pay for.

Emilie Patteson when you say this is about holding landlords to account to maintain their properties how do you think that will work?? This reform is that landlords can evict tenants without telling them why (usually to do renovations but sometimes for personal reasons. I don’t want to tell my tenant it’s because of instability in my marriage, that’s none of their business. No dignity for the landlords then). So now, can’t kick them out to do Reno’s and can’t increase the rent to pay for Reno’s. So don’t all landlords become slumlord rather than the other way around?

Clare Hyden no, the reform is so that landlords CAN’T evict tenants without a reason. That doesn’t mean you tell them about your insecure marriage, it means you tell them you are going to live in the property, which yes that does involve providing proof, which is technically already a requirement when ending a lease.
But it sounds like renting your property isn’t suitable for you. Maybe you should consider other alternatives of investment.

Emilie Patteson so you’re saying lie or maybe stop being a land lord, which is what I said originally Ie if you want to stop people being landlords then this is the way to do it.

Clare Hyden Don’t forget that you are dealing with a Left agenda with the Greens – Labor & rental activist in Canberra.
If you can make a nice profit, easier to take the cash and invest in other assets as i did that last year.
My life is so sweet and no stress or debt issues 😉 let the Left deal with the rental crisis!

Clare Hyden no I’m not saying lie. You don’t need to provide a specific reason why you are moving into the property, you just need to prove that you are.
I’m just saying it sounds like being a landlord doesn’t suit your personal circumstances. Most landlords won’t have issue with the reforms.

Geoffrey Bell I’m sure renters everywhere in Canberra are grateful that you did so that hopefully the market has more landlords who follow the rules.

Emilie Patteson Nah i am all fine Emilie and thanks for thinking of my well being. My renters had air-con, pink batt in the roof and a remote controlled garage door way before i ever did.
Glad i am out of the market, feel so sorry for the renter thou with the current Left leaning govt changes in the rental reforms. Life is is about to get harder for them with the lack of property investors.

Clare Hyden Sounds good to me. The less landlords the better

Birna Ursidae yeah if you don’t understand that negative gearing involves you spending more on a property than you’re earning or that investors actually make up a really small percentage of the housing market.

Emilie Patteson You actually do need to provide a specific reason, particularly if the tenant won’t leave and you end up at tribunal. I am going through this now in VIC. Gave sufficient notice to vacate as we need to move in. Tenant can’t find a place so has refused to move out, therefore we need to take them to tribunal. Tribunal member now needs to decide who will be the most at risk if the notice to vacate stands. We need to give them ins and outs of financial situation and personal situation as to why we need OUR property back.

Reg French Go for it, I’m not stopping you.

Clare Hyden Not sure why you think my comment had anything to do with negative gearing. Seems like you are the one that lacks understanding of it.

Reg French Congratulations

Birna Ursidae it just sounds like you think reducing the number of landlords will significantly make housing cheaper. However, there aren’t that many landlords and also they charge less in rent than it costs them so maybe not

Birna Ursidae there are plenty of people that will never buy a house (for a number of reasons) even if they were half the price they are now… where should they live? No landlords = no rental properties

Clare Hyden They charge the max amount of rent that the market will allow. Its not like they voluntarily out of the goodness of their heart charge below market rent, so lets not pretend that they are.

Nareeda Miller And there are plenty of people that would snap up houses if they could, but cant because the market is being artificially kept high by tax benefits provided to those who own multiple properties already. Its a system that takes from the less well off, to give to the more well off.

And there are plenty of options besides the government providing financial support to property owners to buy up multiple properties in order to try and fix a failure of the housing system.

Birna Ursidae capital gains tax far outweighs any tax benefit along the way. Let me know what you suggestions are…

Birna Ursidae not quite. They charge a market rate when the tenant signs on. Then legislation limits how much they can put rent up based on CPI not the market or costs. Then they limit the owners ability to remove the existing tenant so that they can go back to market rent…

Nareeda Miller I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying. Do you mean the capital gain or the 50% discount? The benefit of the 50% CGT discount is concessional in the first few years of ownership but is quickly eroded by CPI and if you don’t get rid of your property within a certain amount of time you actually end up paying double tax on the capital gain. I’m all for going back to indexation of the cost base. It’s not that hard.

Clare Hyden all I mean is that Birna is making it sound like the government is funding investment… but the amount you pay in capital gains tax is far more than any negative gearing benefit.

Nareeda Miller Capital gains applies to all investments, not just housing. To suggest that it balances out the tax welfare given to landlords through negative gearing is disingenuous.

Clare Hyden Correct, there are controls in place to limit landlords from being able to unfairly jack rents up to existing tenants, because once a tenant is occupying a property it is no longer a fair arrangement for the owner to be able to set the rate at will, because it is not an arrangement that the tenant can readily and easily exit from. People cannot relocate their lives on the whims of a landlord who wants to suddenly pull the rug out from under them, so regulations were put in place to protect tenants. But adjustment is designed to reflect changes in the economic conditions over time, and the rate that the rental starts out reflects market rent at that time.

Birna Ursidae no it’s not…you clearly don’t understand the sums

Nareeda Miller Please enlighten me then as to how its not disingenuous. As was already pointed out, capital gains tax applies to other forms of investments, not just housing, so its bearing on negative gearing is irrelevant. If you think I dont understand ‘the sums’, do post your work then.

Birna Ursidae no it’s not. If you own a business like a Cafe, you write off a fridge,oven etc. This is no different. Capital gains is more than negative gearing in the vast majority of cases. A lot more.

Nareeda Miller A fridge or oven in a cafe is a depreciating asset, not a financial investment. Try again

Birna Ursidae so is depreciation on fittings and fixtures with with house 😆 you clearly dont know much about it.

Nareeda Miller sure, but you dont pay capital gains tax on depreciated fixtures and fittings fittings. Do you even understand what depreciation means?

Geoffrey Bell yeah, that’s the hope.

Ella Factor bad landlords are bad landlords and no amount of legislation is going to change the practices of someone trying to exploit someone else. What these legislation requirements do is make it difficult and costly for good landlords to comply so they just step out of the market leaving less supply and driving up prices.

Adam Horner do you apply the same attitude to all other industries? Drug dealers are gonna try to exploit so no point legislating against drug dealing. Killers are gonna kill so no point making murder a criminal offense. Employers are gonna want slave Labour so no point legislating a minimum wage or work health and safety standards.. and so on..

Ella Factor it’s already an offence to kill. There’s already laws around slave labour. Drug dealers are already breaking the law but Canberra is doing work to decriminalise drugs.

Your arguments are not reasonable.

There’s obviously an imbalance of regulations in the rental industry and these new legislations are pushing them further out.

I’m sorry you went through the chaos with a bad landlord but you had rights at the time and it sounds like you chose not to pursue them.

Ella Factor yeah $1000 TV compares to a million dollar property.

Tijana Ružić oh I pursued my rights – the laws did not protect me

So what you’re saying is if laws already exist then they should exist, but if they don’t already exist then there’s no point in them existing.. and yet you question my logic? Sounds more like you’re twisting your own logic into knots to match your preconceived beliefs.

Meanwhile, given the proposed legislation is for minimum standards because they don’t currently exist, please do explain to me what rights you think I didn’t bother to exercise?

Links please, I’m not interested in false facts here.

Ella Factor no I’m not saying that. I’m saying that you’re using examples that don’t correlate in this instance. There’s no connection between those things you use and this situation.

I’d be interested to know what rights you used. Not having a heater is an emergency situation and if it’s not fixed within a small timeframe you had a right to get it fixed yourself and pass the bill onto your landlord.

Tijana Ružić the correlation is this:
There’s bad behaviours that society doesn’t want people doing
So society makes laws banning the bad behaviour

We have identified bad behaviour that doesn’t have strong enough laws

So we are calling for strong enough laws to stop the bad behaviour

Other types of bad behaviour have had laws made

But apologists for the bad behaviour of bad landlords are claiming that making laws isn’t appropriate for stopping bad behaviour

So these apologists are applying different standards to whether or not society should have laws to stop bad behaviour

Do you understand yet?

The question is should the government have laws to stop bad behaviour or not? I’m saying yes.

You’re saying if the laws already exist then yes but if they don’t exist yet then no. Which isn’t logical to me.

🤷‍♀️

As to my last rental – did you miss the fact that they removed the entire wall? What’s the point of getting them to fix the central heating when it would just be pumping into outside due to lack of walls? Turns out there’s no way for a tenant to hire builders to rebuild walls then get reimbursed lol.

Ella Factor sounds to me like you like playing victim. Good luck with that. Its doing you really well 🙄

Ella Factor would you combat drug dealers by putting such stringent legislation in place that pharmacists would no longer be able to operate? I’m actually not against the legislation to support tenants rights, I just believe they need to be balanced so both parties are protected. There seems to be this underlying belief that Canberra landlords are bad people that the community needs to be protected from, this is creating imbalanced legislation that is driving good landlords out of the market.

Ella, contract is a contract.
How about you sign an employment contract and then you cannot quit if you do not want to work there anymore without a good reason?
No, you want to fulfil your contract and leave. Why should anyone force you to work after that?

Adam Horner it’s minimum standards, if you don’t want to provide a minimum standard find a different investment.

Ella Factor how could they remove an entire wall so heat goes outside? In Victoria that would be an immediate emergency VCAT hearing if they attempted to remove a wall of a house a tenant was living in. If they did go ahead before the hearing they would be severely fined and have to pay compensation to the tenant as they would have to provide you with other temporary accommodation while andy building works were taking place.

Adam Horner I don’t know anything about Canberra’s rental market but I know in Victoria it has resulted in a reduction in available rentals at the cheap end of the market. Landlords who previously rented out granny flats etc have stopped because the cost of getting them up to standard is too high in relation to the rent (I was renting mine for $100 a week – to get up to standard with an approved heater would require all new wiring (had good cheap heaters already functioning but not one of the approved ones – didn’t have a proper star rating but only cost 10c an hour to heat one room and had one in each room – tenants electricity bills averaged $10 a week usage – pretty darn cheap). The new wiring would cost over $10,000 plus cost of the new split system heaters (the only ones approved) so around $15,000, and would have actually cost more to run. I would have had to put the rent up heaps just to cover costs so I choose to stop renting it out – just like many other landlords and the result is that single people looking for something cheap to rent have to rent rooms in share houses because the number of granny flats has greatly reduced. I think some of the rental laws should have been reconsidered – if older, but cheap and reliable heating is already in place then why require the latest to be installed. I’m not sure what other “standards” they are changing in Canberra but I hope they are being careful about it so they don’t lose all cheap options for people on low incomes.

Clinton Berry it’s not minimum standards that I’m concerned about, it’s the disparity between tenants rights and owners rights. If EER and insulation is so important, then maybe extend the laws to say property transactions (wether rental or sale) cannot occur without it. If it is is required then allow landlords to adjust rent to accommodate just like you would in selling a house. Or maybe landlords should be required to provide an EER assessment and building report instead so a tenant so they can make an informed decision about wether they want the property and what they are willing to pay. The issue for me extends beyond the minimum standards (which interestingly my rental properties exceed all the standards but residential property doesn’t meet them) but it’s all the requirements that place more pressure on landlords. As you say, I can always invest is something else, and now I have so that’s 2 more properties out of the rental market. If there is enough private landlords doing the same we will see less supply and the continuation of upward pressure on rent, isn’t that the opposite of what the gov is trying to achieve?

There is no tenants rights champ. Greedy landlords hold all the cards.

Clinton Berry not our experiences, our tenants trashed our property and we had no ability to do anything about it. But they left when they wanted, got all their bond back and left us with a $10k repair bill. I’m in support of laws that allow tenants to make their rental property their home (support the legislation around allowing pets, making minor changes, and even some form of rent regulation etc.) but when they swing so much that there is no support for landlords doing the right thing and no accountability for tenants doing the wrong thing, that’s when I have a problem.

Adam Horner boo hoo. Cry me a river.

Clinton Berry nice… obviously not keen to have an objective discussion about real issues. Must not have much to back your argument I guess.

Loretta Kelly it wasn’t, it was only the external wall she’s exaggerating the situation. They tarped up the outside but the internal wall was still there. She could have heated without issues.

Loretta Kelly that’s because you’ve got better laws in VIC.

Adam Horner not with a greedy landlord that’s crying poor because things might become even for his tenants. If you can’t afford the upkeep and repairs sell one of your many properties, don’t expect people to feel sorry for you when you admit to owning more than one rental property.
You’re greedy, plain and simple.

Clinton Berry this is the problem, you know nothing about me, how I came to have two investment properties, how I managed those properties etc. You’re also ignoring the argument I’m putting forward which is supportive of tenants rights but with a balanced approach. You’re just ready to say I’m greedy without knowing anything about me. Rental prices are soaring, that will only get worse if more private investors leave the market. There is a collective discussion that needs to happen to address the current housing affordability and demonising landlords isn’t going to support a productive discussion about how to solve the problem.

Tijana Ružić she could have but should she have to when paying full rent for a fully functioning home thats what she signed a lease for fully functioning not a construction site with cheaper rent…landlord problems should not be passed on to the tenants without reasonable disscussions of actions and effects hopefully these laws will protect tenants like Ella she paid her rent in full the landlord received the rent in full but couldnt use some of the money to at least fix his heating while he replaced half of his wall or dropped her rent to reflect the condition of his rental…why should they receive full rental prices for homes that are not fully functioning…

Tracy-leigh Boyd agreed but my point is is that she had the powers to manage that..

Tijana Ružić maybe she didnt have time to mange something that was the landlords responsibility he takes the full rent then he takes full responsibilty for repairs at no inconvienience to his tenants unless they have come to an agreement and rent is dropped for a broken house cause its no longer a fully functioning home…that is why we need laws in favour of tenants as there are too many landlords getting the rent money but not maintaining properties I think a certain percentage of yearly rent needs to be put back into these home so that they stay livable for tenants if they cant afford to do that then dont buy them…

Tracy-leigh Boyd sorry she said she didn’t have powers.

Angus but don’t forget the rent increase cap! No cap on costs though.

Angus Fung rents are already priced at the maximum the market will pay, said changes won’t materially change rental costs all that much, and should increase housing supply as some landlords will exit.

Corey Karl reasonable point. I do support raising rental energy efficiency standards though.

Daisy Wheel me too. And any money a property invested spends on their property is also a tax deduction… so that would offset the cost.

Daisy Wheel sure …. But dodgy landlords wouldn’t be able to get away with letting below standard properties if there was choice for the renters, which I dare say might even drive prices down… it’s typical of this gov to create problems, then punish people to rectify their mistakes !

Neenie Bee most would be considered capital improvements by the ATO and not deductions so owners would not get “financial benefit” until they sell

Corey Karl if the Govt do restrict land release to increase Govt revenue then I agree. I think energy efficiency can often be invisible through. A min std on that would sort that out.

Neenie Bee not necessarily a tax deduction… only repairs and maintenance to the standard when the property was purchased. Often Upgrading or Capital works are considered a depreciating assets and you can only claim the loss of value as a deduction.

Jenny Price ahh. Ok.

Neenie Bee – Probably WRONG given the types of expenditure covered here! If it is capital expense (and it most likely will be) only the depreciation of it is tax deductible.

Neenie Bee – …and when you decide to sell, if the depreciation has been claimed as a tax deduction, the capital value has to be added back in to the calculation of the values used to calculate Capital Gains Tax.

John Tozer thanks for the lesson 🙂. We have an investment, but it’s new build. And in the process of selling another… also new build.

Neenie Bee – You shouldn’t have to spend much on capital works on either property if they are new. Then again, maybe landscaping or paths if they are houses. Just be careful of the difference between the ATO definitions of “capital works” and “repairs and maintenance”. Depreciation on the former ONLY is tax deductible whereas 100% of the latter is deductible. Doesn’t help to replace something that is no longer repairable either (in my experience). This is capital works, not a repair. Had this on an AC installation, for example…

Neenie Bee … any
deduction doesn’t come close to covering the full amount paid out .

Melinda Johnston it should still be done. Renters deserve decent dwelling to live in… especially now when rent is ridiculous

Neenie Bee Why are rents so dear then? Will these new reforms increase landlords or decrease landlords? I expect landlords to go over all application with a fine tooth comb.

Neenie Bee it will be done, and guess who will pay ??

Geoffrey Bell rents aren’t dear in comparison to the cost of the property. In Australia the average rental returns on a house is around 4% sometimes even less this doesn’t even come close to covering the costs for the first 7 or 8 years. In Country’s where there is no negative gearing like the UK , Canada, USA,Ireland ect the average rental returns are close to 7% and that’s while interest is low .

Neenie Bee any money spent on the property other than basic maintenance is a capital improvement and may take years to get maybe 30% back.

Onelia Herriot this is wrong. There is plenty of stock, but landlords and vendors are withholding it from the market to get bigger prices. Landlords don’t create housing, builders do, and there is heaps of building happening constantly.

This legislation will push more landlords into Airbnb

Mal Briggs who do you think is paying the builders to build the houses and then provide them to a renter. Landlords – otherwise known as Police, nurses, teachers, normal people who have saved hard and want an investment property to help in their retirement, that’s who.

Madeleine Taylor landlords don’t “provide” a residence to renters, they withhold a residence until they get paid enough to hand over the keys.
If a landlord didn’t buy it, maybe an occupier would, removing one more renter from the market.

Landlords don’t provide a service, they sit on a property investment and charge a tenant for the privilege of guarding it for them.

There is a reason the word “rent-seeking” exists.
“Rent seeking is an economic concept that occurs when an entity seeks to gain wealth without any reciprocal contribution of productivity.”

Mal Briggs that’s so funny. Do you personally know a single landlord would could afford to pay the mortgage, land tax, rates, strata for units and maintenance without a tenant paying rent? I sure don’t. And I also don’t know many renters who could afford to build a house, while paying rent somewhere else for 12months. Face it – landlords are normal people who are providing an important service – and hopefully are generating a small financial benefit for them and their families. I certainly don’t begrudge them that.

Madeleine Taylor I’ve been on every side of this. I have served every role multiple times. No one becomes a landlord to provide a service, they become a landlord as an investment. If something is an investment, you are extracting more value than you are putting in, or it is a bad investment. When that investment is the roof over someone else’s head, extracting more value than you put in while the tenant is in financial stress (which almost every tenant in Canberra is) becomes ethically questionable.

Mal Briggs perfectly said.

Claire Henderson Airbnb is being regulated too in more and more cities and countries to stop that very behaviour as its inflationary and adds to housing affordability problems.

Mal Briggs …the “ investment “ property usually only provides a financial gain once it is paid off or sold for an increased value …..which can take many years or in some cases actually sells at a loss .
I know the rent on my “ investment” unit came nowhere near covering the mortgage each month let alone the land tax , levies or rates .
If rent simply paid a mortgage surely more people would simply purchase a property themselves

Melinda Johnston if you aren’t covering your costs, sell it.

Mal Briggs most properties don’t become neutral for at least 7 or 8 years during that time you would be kicking in $250 to $300 per week.

Andrew Toal how’s it punishing them? They’re investing for their own personal gain but still should be obliged to maintain their properties to an adequate standard and treat their tenants fairly. Nothing in this article appears unreasonable.

Andrew Toal If people who already own numerous properties stops then that’s good only first home buyers can find more options to buy a home. Because for most house is a basic essential rather than investment.

Carol Gainey don’t disagree on maintaining property… But there is more to it than just that

Bala Murali doesn’t work that way

Andrew Toal There should be balance only existing landlords alone should not be allowed to make profit, more opportunities and laws should protect tenants and new home buyers too. Then only it will be win win.

Carol Gainey – Most property investors buy in the hope of a future capital gain, NOT because they are going to make huge amounts from the rent! Now that property values have had their run and peaked, watch the number of rental properties available tank!

Bala Murali why would they put in the work and risk for no benefit?

Bala go buy a million dollar house please… and rent it out. See how you love it…. and please don’t make a profit. That’s greedy.

Tijana Ružić If investors doest invest its a good thing for new home buyers, because we are happy to pay lesser value for the property. But because of huge demand from investment buyers the prices are inflating in the market. We are happy if investment buyers don’t want to invest, because so many first home buyers wants home for their personal needs.

Bala Murali that’s not how it works.

But I was asking about your interesting comment about how investors shouldn’t profit.

Kate Allard I don’t want to pay that much money I want the price to fall but I need a personal home for me first so I don’t think I would put money for a investment property.

Bala good luck to you. Prices will fall….. but interest rates are rising and all the other costs associated with home owning. Hoping the house price drops are big enough enough offset those other rises.

Andrew Toal if an owner does not maintain their property they are punishing themselves with huge repair bills down the track. Maybe if instead of thinking along the line of ‘I am being punished’, you might think along the lines of ‘how do I maintain my investment.

Andrew Toal investing is not meant to be a static, risk free environment.

Linny Hawkins big difference between maintenance and changing rules 🤷

Andrew Toal changing rules to force investers to do the maintenance they refuse to do… if you do the maintenance then you have no problems surely?… oh and lets clear the air here … I rent in the ACT and have a well maintained property elsewhere..you see I care about my tenant and my investment. Why let my investment rot and my great tenant leave and risk getting a garbage tenant? Basic common sense tells you that if you do the right thing by the tenant, you are doing the right thing by yourself as well…

Andrew Toal investing is a risk that can go up or down, nobody owes you a return not the government or renters. If you don’t like it then take your money out and invest in something safer like gold or bonds.

Adrian Jay and in the next breath you want people to rent houses 🤔

Andrew Toal landlords don’t provide a service that is in any sense needed. If there weren’t private landlords properties would be bought by owner-occupiers or (assuming the govt invested in it again) public housing. Nobody is going to give you a medal or validate the fact you rent out your investment for shelter, sorry about that.

Adrian Jay so you want the government to buy you a house… Ok.. good luck.. have fun

Bala Murali – how is there a win if you are not allowed to make a profit?

John Tozer It’s a win if I am a first home just want a place for me to live instead of dealing with land Lords. I just want a house. But people who want to just make profit are the ones who are inflating the market. If they don’t come into competition it’s better for people who just looking for an affordable housing for my family.

Jay Kay people want to just invest money and make profit but does want to bear the risk involving in it 🤣🤣🤣

Bala Murali – It’s a win for you (in YOUR opinion) but how is it a win for an investor if they are not allowed to make a profit????

John Tozer Yes u can invest in stocks or gold or commodities you have so many options to make profit but people who want a home just have one choice to buy a home. If you feel u can’t make profit don’t invest. Simple.

Bala Murali – I won’t! Not in Canberra, anyway…!

Adrian Jay It’s as if people don’t understand the basic premise of an investment 🤷🏻‍♂️

Jacqueline Ladybear Hyde or form their sense of identity and self-worth around owning properties, rather than seeing it as an investment that carries both risk and reward.

Andrew Toal exactly and fat chance of the government be it Liberal or Labor supplying government housing.

Carl McDonald not that easy though. We asked to sign a longer lease, even just a few more months to take us past Christmas, offered a higher price and all but the owner decided to sell. We now wait until it sells now to see if the next owner is occupier or investor, so no – there’s no ‘simply sign a longer lease for security’.

Jodie Robinson-Hevey owners prerogative sell at anytime. You are entitled to sell your stuff at any time. Why shouldn’t they have the same right as you?

most real estates won’t do any longer than 12mths

Jodie Robinson-Hevey why shouldn’t the owner decide to sell? to force the owner to holding property simply to satisfy the renter is a ridiculous suggestion.

Mal Briggs incorrect
You cant issue a six month notice to vacate until the lease is over

Gina Crossman my mistake

Mal Briggs no problems
So effectively a 12 month lease currently is 18months unless the owner is selling or moving into it so then they can issue an 8 week clause after the lease

Lynne Meredith where do I say that I am forcing the owner to hold onto the property? What a ridiculous comment of yours. A new owner would take on the lease. I am replying to a comment that there is no security just by signing a longer lease.

Lynne Meredith that suggestion was never made. They just said that it isn’t that easy to sign a longer lease because the owner can make these decisions. They didn’t even imply that owners shouldn’t be able to make these decisions.

Carl McDonald they never said they shouldn’t. They were giving an example of why it’s not always easy to sign a longer lease.

Carl McDonald it’s not really what I was talking about. You say to simply sign a longer lease if a tenant wants security, I’m saying it isn’t always possible if a house sells and tenants just have 8 weeks notice to leave.

Jodie the only option for 100 percent security is to buy. And boy do you pay through the teeth for that ‘luxury’ .. via all the taxes and rates you can think of.

Gina Crossman that is incorrect.