There's only one Australian flag, says Dutton

The ATSI flags are being flown everywhere there is an Australian flag with fewer exceptions every day (parliament house isn’t there yet). That’s not the case with the flags you mentioned and none of the people they represent are troubled by it so that comparison doesn’t really work. I don’t think abolishing any flags is what Dutton is talking about either.

Thats already taken!!! But, WE WILL NOT SURRENDER!

You present a biased opinion without evidence, facts or an argument to back it up. Just an attack and name-calling. Dutton does that too, perhaps that’s what you like about him?

Problem with human cognition is, we argue an issue deeply once, twice, thrice even – but who has the energy to reiterate what you’ve said before even beyond?

I got mad about persons on the far left just sniping sensible comments on teh plebbit, but really – you’ve btfo’d certain arguments many times, do you really have the energy to keep regurgitating the same winning arguments?

And no, I’m not saying righty tighty arguments are that astoundingly amazing – it’s a both sides thing, lefty swefty arguments have the same fundamental issue – you can be done with the argument because it took more energy than saw a return on.

However.
Point is, just because refuse to elaborate, doesn’t make the argument wrong.

Left OR right.

“We have ONE national flag!”

Sigh. No one has claimed differently.

“We have ONE national flag!”

Sigh. No one has claimed differently. The Indigenous and Torres Strait Islander flags are still Australian flags.

As is the ACT flag.
Do we ask federal politicians stand in front of our state flag “because we matter so much!!”?

@bob9000
Well there’s at least TWO other Commonwealth nations which have flags to represent their indigenous people:
Canada has the Canadian Indigenous Flag. New Zealand has the Tino Rangatiratanga (or The national Māori) flag.

Why do you have a problem with the first nations people being recognised as the original inhabitants of our country?

I didn’t realise being Canberran made us a distinct people.

It’s divisive because the objective is to remove the indigenous flags from our view, as if they’re no longer important or of value. It excludes first nations flags and indigenous people’s representation from the national stage. That is NOT inclusive.

Well said psycho.

Well, they aren’t tho.

Well said!

Seano, “Peter Dutton offers nothing but culture wars.” He has promised a vision in nuclear power that Albanese keeps sticking his head in the sand about. He would be more decisive and offer better security for Australian Jews that are being harassed and abused every day. What has Albo offered except for a ton of lies and broken promises. The country is more divided than ever under the little far left activist that likes fighting Tories. Your standards are low.

Read the CSIRO report, even a cursory understanding of the Australian energy market shows that Dutton’s nuclear vision is idiocy.

Nuclear in Australia is simply not going to happen. The states and the energy retailers are not going to buy in, so it’s dead in water already. And the reason they’re not going to buy in is not because of anything “woke;” it’s simple economics. A nuclear power plant is at least 15 years away, even if we start today, and it will cost billions for one plant. Nuclear would drive up our power prices significantly whilst slowing our transition to clean energy.

Nuclear is more expensive than coal which is more expensive than renewables. This is a fact. Renewables are not only the cheapest source of energy they’re also the quickest to build, quickest to market, easiest to maintain and quickest to dispatch to the grid when needed. There are intermittency problems that are solved with firming technology like pumped hydro, batteries, a distributed grid etc.

Duitton’s nuclear “vision” is aimed at people who don’t understand the energy market and dopes who think the culture wars nonsense counts as vision.

Seano I will hold you to that statement that nuclear will never happen here. Mark my words it will and when Albanese and Bowen get booted you will see a shift towards nuclear from Labor. To rely on one CSIRO report is clutching at straws. I didn’t say anything about it being “woke” as you say. Renewables and coal were once 15 years away, 32 other countries around the world can’t be wrong and many more wanting nuclear or increasing it.
You really need to read up from the experts about energy instead of sticking your head in the sand Labor style. Countries like France have the cheapest electricity prices in Europe and Germany who got rid of some of their energy rely on France for their power. “Renewables quickest to build” How is Snowy Hydro 2.0 going?? and the cost blowout??
You need to factor in that renewables are lucky to last 15 years, rely on fossil fuels to make them and run them, are intermittent power, 20% some days if you’re lucky, need thousands of hectares of pristine forest, farming land and kilometres of transmission lines (more bushfire risk). If you are relying on batteries for back up, good luck, you will be lucky to get 2 hours to power a small city.
You really haven’t thought this one thru and you are the one that doesn’t understand the energy market. You’re the dope if you think it has anything to do with culture wars.

I don’t have to mark your words Yogie because nuclear power in Australia won’t happen.

“‘Not a hope in hell’ nuclear power can replace Australian coal-fired power by 2040, inquiry hears”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/dec/12/not-a-hope-in-hell-nuclear-power-can-replace-australian-coal-fired-power-by-2040-inquiry-hears

The energy retailers (ie. the market) have spoken. They won’t invest in nuclear because they know it will take decades, cost billions and drive energy prices up not down.

You can attack the CSIRO rather than address the issues but that’s neither rational nor will it change the fundamental economics of the energy debate in Australia.

The rest of your drivel seems to be little more than the idiotic ramblings taken straight from right-wing bloggers and culture warriors who don’t know anything about the energy market and don’t seem to realise (or care) that the debate is purely about economics.

“You need to factor in that renewables are lucky to last 15 years,” besides the fact that that’s not true (even my own solar panels are rated 25-30 years and paid for themselves after 8) you get that coal and nuclear plants need constant expensive maintenance? This pretence that nuclear magically happens once the plant is built just adds to the impression you have no idea what you’re talking about.

I’m sorry not having a basic understanding of the energy market or the economics of the nuclear debate, let alone that the key stakeholders (ie the states and the energy retailers) won’t buy in (because it’s not remotely economically sensible) isn’t an argument for nuclear.

Seano the fact that you use the Guardian as a source of the truth is laughable and shows your love of the left and your distain that is anything right of the far left. You seem to have to resort to name calling and insults when challenged. But that is expected from the left. You really need to research a bit harder if you think facts are from right wingers or culture warriors. Is that the best you have? Seriously. Maybe get out of the little left wing box you seem to live in and get out and see for yourself what other people might think.
Let’s have a look at what the government promised with renewables;
80% by 2032 – not going to happen
100% by 2050 – very unlikely to happen, pretty much nil
reduce our electricity bills by $275 – fail
build a hydrogen hub at the old coal fire station in the Hunter Valley – fail
invest in hydrogen with Twiggy Forest in WA – fail
never stated the cost of their renewable fantasy
brought in nature positive plan that lets them destroy pristine forests and farmland that contain native fauna and flora to build their solar and wind farms and transmission lines

Yes, The Guardian is more biased than lawn bowls

“Seano the fact that you use the Guardian as a source of the truth”…I knew you’d try this idiotic piece of misdirection.

It’s a direct report about what the industry group for energy retailers and generators said at the inquiry into nuclear power which is all on the public record.

You’d know that if you’d read the article, or anything or anything written about the Australian energy market written by experts in the Australian energy market rather than dopes on Telegram.

The retailers and generators don’t support nuclear, it’s not viable economically. Without the retailers and generators, let alone the states (which have far more of the responsibility in the energy space than do the feds) nuclear in Australia is already dead.

As I said Dutton’s play here is purely about appealing to people who don’t understand the Australian energy market and culture wars dopes. Being more interested in scoring political points rather than what’s best for Australian consumers is just another example of why Dutton is clueless and would be a terrible PM.

I’m ignoring the rest of your drivel, which looks to be a bunch of the usual tedious logical fallacies, you’re making a fool of yourself because it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about and no interest in becoming informed.

@Futureproof it’s not like you to say something dumb…*cough* …it’s not an opinion piece, it’s a direct report of the response from the industry group for energy retailers and generators at the nuclear inquiry. It’s all on the public record.

*Protip: reading is your friend.

Yogie, you might believe in Dutton’s visions but most of us are more likely to believe in an evil tooth fairy .

There isn’t a single commercial operator willing to invest in nuclear power, nor a single bank offering to finance it.

The only way it can happen is if taxpayers fund it. If you add in the cost of taxpayer subsidies for the nuclear industry to what we pay in energy bills, prices can only skyrocket. Time to be logical instead of ideological.

psicho, you are welcome to believe in the evil tooth fairy if that is what floats your boat. Like I said once the ban of nuclear comes off more companies will come on board.

Who do think funds renewables?? The tooth fairy. Fair dinkum, to the tune of $22 billion.

Hate to break it to you nuclear works 24/7 not intermittent like renewables, did you factor that in along with the thousands of kilometres of new transmission lines and clearing of pristine forests and farmland need for your renewable dream.

Nuclear used widely around the world by smart countries, no country as ever or will ever work on wind and solar farm alone. Time to be logical instead of ideological.

Seano I’ll try again as my last reply to your retort was not published. As you are from the tolerant left you may know why it wasn’t. Do you know someone or something I don’t know? The Australian Energy Regulator recently stated they couldn’t guarantee our electricity bills would be reduced as promised 100 times by Albanese thru their renewable fantasy. Who is making a fool of themselves?

If you want to get your info from the far left media such as the Guardian good luck to you. I prefer to get mine from a wide variety of experts around the world and smart countries that have looked at and built nuclear energy.

You seem very angry that the opposition leader has a vision and is resonating with so many Australians. Are you ok? Albanese’s own party and supporters are deserting him as they see him as weak, spineless and utterly clueless.

Maybe you should come down from your Ivory tower and get out and get some sun this weekend, don’t turn left as always, try another path, you might learn something and inform yourself.

“psicho, you are welcome to believe in the evil tooth fairy if that is what floats your boat. Like I said once the ban of nuclear comes off more companies will come on board.”

Even assuming Dutton can get this through parliament, which would be unlikely, no, they won’t because that’s not the issue. The cost of nuclear, and the time to market for nuclear is still massive, and that won’t change.

You’re still using the same tired talking points because you don’t want to address the reality that nuclear is the most expensive form of energy and one of the slowest to market. The energy retailers and generators have already ruled it out accordingly, which means that any Dutton policy is already DOA.

“Nuclear used widely around the world by smart countries, no country as ever or will ever work on wind and solar farm alone. Time to be logical instead of ideological.”

All his comment does, is demonstrate that you don’t understand the energy market.

Seano the Australian Energy Regulator recently stated that they could not guarantee Labor’s broken promise of reducing our electricity bills by $275. Who is embarassing themselves now

Seano, you seem very angry about Peter Dutton and he is the opposition leader. Thought you would be more worried about the lying, weak, insipid and clueless Albanese, who is the current PM. Even his own party and supporters are deserting him. Does that make you so upset?

Seano, it is a shame you didn’t get my suggestion from a couple of days ago, I suggested you come down from your Ivory tower, get some sun, don’t turn left, you might learn something and inform yourself with a whole new world out there.

Seano, as for your tired, old line about nuclear being expensive, any major project costs a lot to build, it is what is worth for future generations.
Do you think Bradfield worried about the initial cost of building a ten lane highway over Sydney Harbour. He was a visionary and knew if he built it when he did it would last a lifetime and serve people in the future without having to build a new bridge. Imagine if he took the cheaper option and built a 2 way laneway instead.
Why did Labor never cost their renewables and you whinge about Dutton?
Nuclear is baseload, safe, affordable, emissions free, reliable and instant. Renewables are weather dependant, unreliable, use fossil fuels to run and make them.
Why is it so hard for you to see the benefits of nuclear power?
Oh, that’s right you’re some kind of Labor troll or paid one that has to defend anything Labor says and rubbish anything the Liberals do no matter how sensible it is.
Just wondering your position if Labor came out tomorrow and said they were for nuclear?

Yogie, I’m not interested in your sad little insults, strawman arguments or drivel about the energy market which only demonstrates that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

The energy retailers have already killed off Dutton’s dud Nuclear plan. It’s too expensive, too slow and too dependent on unlikely assumptions. Dutton’s Nuclear plan is a talking point for people who don’t understand the Australian energy market and culture wars dummies.

PS. Nuclear in Australia has no “benefits” because it’s not going to happen because it’s by far the most expensive form of power and the people who actually sign the cheques (ie. not the Feds know that) time to grow up and live in the real world.

Seano, you can give it but can’t take it. have a look at the feed or any one of your other multiple comments on this site and you are the one that insults. You’re not interested in my arguments because you have no rational answer to them, you just try to belittle people into believing your superior to them.

You haven’t mentioned anything about Bowen and Albanese’s energy price commitment and how they lied about then the Australian Energy Regulator recently come out and said it was all crap basically strawman.

Labor’s renewable energy superpower dream is in tatters and you know it, but can’t except it, too bad. A change of government will be the best thing for nuclear power in Australia.

You are sounding like Bowen parroting his anti nuclear line. Everyone knows Bowen is by far Australia’s worst politician, just ask his Labor mates who he cost their prime ministership.

It is you who needs to grow up and race reality.

Seano, this is your future under albo and bowen
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/world-s-largest-wind-turbine-damaged-in-extreme-weather/ar-AA1vUhyf

I’m not interested in your arguments Yogie because they’re little more than culture wars nonsense, certainly nothing to do with the actual economics of nuclear power in Australia. This is why you’re left with strawman arguments and sad insults.

Dutton’s dodgy plan has has been shot down by industry groups and the CSIRO.

Even commonsense *cough* should tell you that Australia with no nuclear industry is not going to build nuclear plants faster than any country in history to meet Dutton’s dodgy costings.

As I keep pointing out to you (and the facts back me up) Dutton’s dodgy nuclear plan is aimed at people who don’t understand the Australian energy market and culture wars dummies, and clearly some people fall into both of these categories.

“Seano, this is your future under albo and bowen
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/world-s-largest-wind-turbine-damaged-in-extreme-weather/ar-AA1vUhyf“

How clueless could you be mate, do I need to link nuclear accidents, fires in coal plants, gas explosions? Nuclear isn’t magic.

I’m almost embarrassed for you.

Seano, nice try at whataboutism. You and the government keep spruiking renewables as the future, new, advanced technology but why would you rely on technology that is reliant on the weather when as you lot say the weather is getting more unpredictable and wilder. Strange. You and your troglodytes can quote stuff about nuclear from the 80s and don’t bother with Fukushima that was from a natural disaster that would have smashed any type of energy plant in its path and none of the deaths were from radiation.

A nuclear power plants will withstand most types of weather events unlike solar and wind without taking up all the land required for its transmission, another risk in the form of bushfires.

You’re only embarrassing yourself

“A nuclear power plants will withstand most types of weather events unlike solar and wind without taking up all the land required for its transmission, another risk in the form of bushfires.”

This is idiotic….we have a distributed grid champ. There are solar & wind farms, batteries and pumped hydro etc all across the country. It’s impossible to take our renewable generation.

It’s clear that you don’t know what you’re talking about as evidenced by your lack of understanding of intermittency and how it is handled in our energy market.

Read the gencost report Yogie and then we can have an adult conversation. Until then I’m sorry spout talking points you got from dopes on Telegram is embarrassing.

PS. If you weren’t completely clueless you’d know that 35% of all our energy comes from renewables (and we’ve got gigawatts in the pipeline). If intermittency were an issue we’d already be having blackouts…which we’re not.

Protip: If you have no idea about a topic it’s often better not to say anything, you know the old better to be quiet and thought a fool than open your mouth and confirm suspicions.

Seano I will try to be more like Seano, he knows everything there is to know just ask him

PS. Where have I said we don’t have renewables? 35% that leaves 65% from coal and gas luckily.

Protip: If you’re going to quote lines make sure you don’t appear to be a hypocrite.

What are talking about?

I’m referring to the industry group for the Energy Retailers & Generators and the CSIRO. You’re referring to dumb stuff that you apparently don’t have the critical thinking skills to parse from Telegram.

I’m referring to experts and data you’re referring to culture wars dopes.

One of us knows what they’re talking about….it ain’t you.

Protip: Claiming that renewables will lead to intermittency problems is an embarrassingly dumb argument that anyone with even a modicum of critical thinking and/or knowledge of the energy market would not be dopey enough to put forward….not you though.

Seano, keep up with the insults, it doesn’t help you win an argument or show you up as any smarter than you already think you are. You assume a lot, like where I get my info from.

You can hang your hat on the CSIRO, but they don’t always get it right. They predicted we would be paying $8 litre for petrol by now and advised the federal government not to export coal to Japan in the 1960s. I can see you quoting this and trying to defend it.

Protip: depending on energy that relies on the weather is not going to lead to intermittency problems.. anyone can see this is a problem

Seano, are you an editor on this site or have some other role? You seem to be on it 24/7 and use insulting language whilst still getting published. I know other people including myself who have not had their replies published and they are a lot tamer than yours. Genuine question.

You don’t get to dismiss the Gencost report because it doesn’t suit your culture wars level understanding of the energy market.

In 1971 the aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags were declared to be Australian national flags and have continued to be recognised as such since. For a politician who claims to be conservative, trashing that tradition is a strange move, but then Dutton isn’t traditional. He’s radical and regressive.

@Psycho. The aboriginal and TI flags were not declared until 1995 (see: https://peo.gov.au/understand-our-parliament/parliament-house/national-symbols-in-parliament-house, also of interest is https://www.pmc.gov.au/resources/australian-flags-booklet). Note that there is a copyright issue with the aboriginal flag that was not resolved until 2022. So both of those flags do not have the tradition or history that people are trying to place on them. Doesn’t stop them being important in their own right, but neither does it make them a necessary replacement for our official national flag. Also noted in the booklet (see link above) is the precedence for flying flags – which would be an eye opener for some of the commentators on this article.

DJA the fact that we only recognised these cultures that late in to our history is an indictment on us.

The Torres Strait Islander and Indigenous flays are not used as a “replacement for our official national flag”. It’s not an either/or situation.

Seano: I was responding to Psycho’s “… were declared to be Australian national flags …”. They were declared as official flags, not national flags. A natural question that comes out from reading the booklet is “if we are flying the A&TI flags as official flags alongside the national flag, then why are we not also flying the state flags?
Your comment about how late we recognised these cultures, no matter how true it is, is a rabbit hole in this particular debate. You don’t reconcile by creating divisions or emblems of ‘us’ and ‘them’.
The debate on whether the current national flag is an appropriate flag is also a rabbit hole. The comment was about having a national flag and using it properly.

The only division being created here has been created by Dutton, who has no ideas or vision for Australia (because, let’s face it the bloke is a dope who would be a terrible PM, Scott Morrison-esq without the personality). The clueless Dutton seeks to score political points through division because he has nothing else to offer.

There is only one “national flag” the others are official Australian flags, in Australia there’s no reason not to fly them as well.

@DJA – I stand corrected. Thankyou for informing me of this and providing evidence to support your comment.

@DJA What is the purpose of any flag but to distinguish “us” from “them”?

Calling for people to support any one flag is merely an attempt to enforce that.

Twaddle.

Yeah, if we were invaded by aliens with tech 3,000 years in advance of our own, they brought gene therapy and fully representative democracy – not this half vote one dimensional stuff – I’d say fair play y’know.

Again, no capacity to provide a logical argument it seems. Just denial of others with no evidence to support your view.

Davey 68 sounds like what the Palestinians did to the innocent Israelis on October 7. Best you check your history, the First Fleet came on 11 old wooden sailing ships with limited guns. The population of Aboriginies at the time was around half a million pretty apt at throwing deadly spears. Half of the 1500 Europeans were convicts, many chained and shackled, hardly in any state to inflict a massacre. They had been on the rough seas for 8 months and all were in a new hot, strange land unbeknown to them. The instructions from the King of England were to make peace with the natives which they did as well as they could and very few Aboriginies were massacred let alone murdered. In fact, Captain Arthur Phillip was speared and forgave the native rather than take retribution. He built a house for Bennelong, who followed him back to England.

The massacres that did happen much later were not systemic organised by the government, they were done by sick, evil people. You are right we can’t change the past, not sure if you have been to any ceremonies, especially on Australia Day, but they do make note of the atrocities, in fact they even seem to make more awareness of that than the day that modern Australia began, bringing us into the industrial age and the start of the things you enjoy today in the comfort of your air conditioned house, building, hospital, school, shops, roads that you can drive your electric or fuel driven automobile on, access to modern medicine, fly from one side of the country to the other or fly overseas, have your vote in a democratic society.

To think that the Aboriginies were having a peaceful time before the First Fleet is very naive, they had brutal tribal wars, practised infanticide, cannibalism, and were a very male centric society.

What an idiotic statement, Phemie.
Australia did not exist before colonization. We are supposed to believe there were 500 nations here before then.
None of them had a flag.

First Nations people never had a flag or a nation. They were tribes of hunter gatherers

Treasonous rubbish.

Hint: Flags aren’t part of aboriginal culture. I can guarantee they weren’t flying it in Sydney when the British arrived.

@Capital Retro
… and you accuse Phemie of making idiotic statements, CR! Phemie has nothing approaching your level.

Oh dear Futureproof, your history is missing a lot of facts. There was much more than hunter gathering going on as has been shown by colonial writings that were previously ignored to justify illegal invasion.

More attacks without evidence. Really! Can’t you do better than that?

You are the only one that thinks that, JS (come in Seano and others on the hate panel)

@Capital Retro
Changing your stance in mid sentnence is a new approach, CR.

Nevertheless, yes there are many on here who will call out your bigotry and prejudice against anyone who does not conform to your white, Anglosaxon, christian view of the world.

Your constant demonising of those who follow the Islamic faith is particularly odious – which is hypocritically ironical, given Christ encouraged tolerance towards all people.

How is it forced? It’s a choice to respect first nations people and not required by law.

Rubbish.

Sort of like the lefties referendum on the “Voice” to parliament, that even the first nations people didn’t support. Media beat up’s